Doctor Who: Journey's End...

[fajrdrako]

Well. End of another series. I'm going to miss this show very much indeed.

I watched this with Sheila. We had a bit of a marathon, starting with "Turn Left" and then "The Stolen Earth" before watching "Journey's End". It was nice to see the continuity.

Brief comments on 'Journey's End':

1. Russell T Davies does seem to be plugging the holes and bringing back themes and plot points from all his previous seasons. Lots of 'reset' buttons being pushed.
   
   
2. Loved the events at Torchwood - a time-locked fortress within Cardiff. And Tosh's doing, too - she saves them again from beyond the grave. I love it too that Jack had total faith they'd be alive when he got home, despite all indications.
   
   
3. Captain Jack was wonderful in this episode. Just the way I like to see him. Well, actually, I'd have liked much more focus on him, and something more personal with the Doctor, but that's all right. The Doctor showed both appreciation and respect for him, the personal connection was there. My craving for the relationship between them elicited all sorts of good signs, even an implication that the Doctor, in his own flighty fashion, stays in touch with Jack.
   
   I was disappointed that the Doctor sabotaged the vortex manipulator again. Why's he so determined to keep Jack in one time? I also think Jack can fix the wristband, so it's a moot point. I am not unhappy.
   
   
4. Does this mean Mickey will join Torchwood? I'm not sure I like that. I liked Mickey's role in Doctor Who mainly because of his connection with Rose. There is an interesting rationale for him on Torchwood: he's had experience in the other universe. Do I like Mickey enough to want him there? So far, no, but it all depends on the writing and the characterization. This is not the Mickey of series 1. Must remember that.
   
   
5. The Doctor removed Donna's memories of him. Did we know he could do that?
   
   
6. nina_ds had talked about 'noisy' episodes in this show, especially as finales, and I think it was. I liked it - even liked its noisiness - but there were so many pyrotechnics, so many wild tricks - I would have liked a quiet moment somewhere. I was moved, but it was all... in a big way.
   
   
7. So did Donna become a sort of Bad Wolf herself? The Time Lord human? As a woman with a Time Lord brain, she was funny. I loved her as a companion, and will miss her.
   
   
8. Jackie didn't have much of a role. I can't think why her presence was necessary to the story. Just for nostalgia's sake?
   
   
9. Loved the explanation, hinted at before, that a TARDIS is meant to be run by six people. So why doesn't the Doctor travel with five companions? Perhaps because he likes his independence - one or two companions is good company, but more than that would crimp his style.
   
   
10. Rose now has her Doctor. I'm not sure I like the implication that a mortal can only love or live with another mortal - Ianto and Jack are doing fine with their asymmetrical affair. Our Doctor couldn't tell Rose he loved her because she would then never have left him. I'm not sure why she had to go back to her other universe, but I'm not sorry she did.
    
    I have always liked the implication that the Doctor was upset by their parting in "Doomsday" not so much because they wereseparated (though he missed her) but because she had gone to that universe unwillingly, and was desperately unhappy with it. Now she can be content there. Though if I was her, I'd still prefer to be with the Time Lord, travelling in time and space.
    
    
11. Loved it that Donna fancied Jack.
    
    
12. Loved Gramps better than ever, and it was nice to see Sylvia sticking up for Donna. I love it that Gramps will remember the Doctor and Donna's adventures with him.
    
    
13. Loved Action!Martha. I find it interesting that Tom Milligan was not so much as mentioned in this episode or last. It's the end of the world, and Martha subconsciously chooses to be with her mother and not her fiancé? That strikes me as odd.
    
    
14. Is Dalek Caan still alive? He was not recreated from Davros' body, so I would assume he is. And the Daleks may return in future.
    
    
15. The human Doctor destroyed the Daleks. Another connection, I assume, between humans and violence? Again, the Doctor is exculpated? Or is he? In this case, he didn't kill Daleks... he mostly just observed what was going on.
    
    I loved the discussion of his guilt: Davros pointing out that he may not use weapons but he has more or less trained humans as weapons. But they have their own free will, and the Doctor has his own guilty conscience. I loved all of that.
    
    I found Davros more interesting here than in "The Stolen Earth".
    
    
16. I loved the force-filed prisons and the time-lock shields and so many of the alien-tech gimmicks. Including especially the use of the TARDIS. Tossing it into the incineratior! Woo.
    
    
17. Loved it that Jack used his inability to die to outwit the Daleks, or try to.
    
    
18. Am I right that Martha still has her teleportation device? Cool.
    
    
19. I can hardly wait for more Sarah Jane Adventures. I hope we see more of Martha, too. Though I generally like the way Rose was used in series 4, I'm just as happy if we don't see her again. And Donna? They seem to have effectively written her out - though not necessarily. She could always meet the Doctor again. Two coincidental meetings - why not a third? Which she would think was the first.
    
    Though of course even without other workings of Destiny, their second meeting wasn't by chance: she'd been looking for him in the likely places for more than a year.
    
    
20. I cried. I can't remember when I cried, but I did. Not at the end. Somewhere in the middle.
    
    
21. The hand grew into the human Doctor, right? And no longer exists as a hand. Pity. I liked that hand.
    
    
22. So what do I do now? Watch series 4 over again? Better still, watch series 1, 2, 3 and 4 again, topped off with Sarah Jane Adventures and Torchwood? It feels like a long time till I'll get anything new.
    

Comments

[catslash.livejournal.com]

I was disappointed that the Doctor sabotaged the vortex manipulator again. Why's he so determined to keep Jack in one time?

because the Doctor thinks he knows best. For everyone. Always. Just ask Harriet Jones. Or Donna. Oh, wait. YOU CAN'T.

Not that I'm going to be furious over this episode for quite some time or anything.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

because the Doctor thinks he knows best.

Well, yes, but why would he think that was best for Jack? Or why it would benefit him to have Jack in one time or place? I like to think it's because that way he can find him easily. Or phone him on the bat-phone or something.

[liliaeth]

Or because he likes to know where to find Jack, easier to do so when he's stuck in one time. He might want to visit you know.

[kensieg.livejournal.com]

The Doctor has become a self-righteous hypocritical controlling git!

[nina-ds.livejournal.com]

I am desperately sleepy, but also a bit nauseous and wound up from anger. I had heard so many of these spoilers before that I was kind of numb while watching and writing my first reaction post, but the more I've thought about it, the more furious I've become, and not with things I'd have expected.

(I cried in the Wilf scene, BTW)

Donna's ending is even worse than Jamie and Zoë's, in a way, because the Doctor did it. He did it as she was screaming for him not to. It seemed like a horrible violation. I hope she's able to "relearn" her awesomeness, but it seems a horrible fate, not only for Donna, but for her family, having to walk on eggshells around her for the rest of their lives.

Rose - eh, on the one hand, I can't be bothered. I loved her so much with Nine. I liked that there was a nod back to that, but it was such an obvious sop that it feels cheap.

But the thing that bugged me most and has made me increasingly livid is that there seems to have been no repercussion about the thing that was, for me, the key thing - Davros called the Doctor (and, it seems to me, specifically Ten) on his shit, so to speak. He won't dirty his hands with killing, but he'll use others to kill for him. And he sloughs off all his "genocide" onto Hand!Ten? What was going to happen if he didn't get rid of the Daleks, excuse me? Okay, Eight or Nine committed dual genocide in the Time War (and possibly, there was collateral damage). Nine stepped back from the Delta Wave in PotW, and it felt like the right answer at the time, given that he'd tried it before and it hadn't solved anything. He surrendered (he was suicidal, have people forgotten that?). So BadWolf!Rose shows up and commits genocide to save his bacon, and hey-ho, it's saving her that kills Nine so that Ten can be born. So Ten, in a way, is the product of a genocide. There's the Racnoss that Ten did on his own, and they were only threatening Earth, compared to all of reality - there is such a thing as scale. He meted out vengeful and spiteful punishment on the Family of Blood (and I can't remember, but weren't they the last of their kind? So isn't that genocide?).

My head hurts.

[karra.livejournal.com]

So far as I remember, Jamie did get to meet the Doctor again though.

Plus, I think that Turn Left showed us that Donna can be marvelous even without the Doctor.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I'm not angry; I was, if anything, relieved by various developments. But - my reactions, though not unhappy, aren't ecstatic either. I must see it again to consider further. Liked "Doomsday" better, for example.

I cried in the Wilf scene, BTW

Wilf was wonderful. maaseru, who hasn't seen other episodes this series, said, "That looks like Bernard Cribbins." Heh.

Donna's ending is even worse than Jamie and Zoë's

What happened to them?

He did it as she was screaming for him not to. It seemed like a horrible violation.

Yes, but this time I bought into his motivation. I was more disturbed by the fate of River Song. And in retrospect, somewhat relieved when I learned that that was done just because Steven Moffat wants to use her again, which is a good thing. I wish they'd just left her dead (for later resurrection), or sent her off with the other survivors of the Library, but that's not a big deal.

I too loved Rose with Nine. I loved her original story arc right up to "Doomsday". This was a postscript - I really found myself caring much more about Jack, Donna, Sarah Jane and Martha. I liked Rose herself here but the impetus of her relationship with the Doctor was gone. This show has a habit of giving those who love the Doctor a second-best consolation prize when they can't have him: Ianto for Jack, Tom for Martha, human-Doctor for Rose - though how a human without a TARDIS can substitute for a Time Lord, I can't imagine.

He won't dirty his hands with killing, but he'll use others to kill for him.

I totally loved it that Davros said that. Because it's true, and needed to be articulated.

And he sloughs off all his "genocide" onto Hand!Ten?

But acknowledged that Hand!Ten was part of him. A part he wants to disavow. That didn't bother me at all: I loved it because he wasn't denying responsibility so much as refusing to play games with Davros. I saw it, in fact, as an admission of guilt - not to Davros but to himself. Both his selves. And his companions, but they knew it anyway, and didn't mind.

Nine stepped back from the Delta Wave in PotW, and it felt like the right answer at the time, given that he'd tried it before and it hadn't solved anything.

Such a perfect moment. One of the high points of Doctor Who of all time, for me. (Excluding all other high points involving Jack.)

The point being, as with so many things to do with the Doctor, a paradox. He's a pacifist who has committed genocide several times - in different circumstances and with varying consequences. We don't know the circumstances of the double-genocide of the Time War, but we know because we've seen it that sometimes he kills as a matter of policy (to prevent greater harm) and sometimes he kills (or otherwise exacts revenge) in anger. I like this moral conundrum, much as it infuriated me in "The Last of the Time Lords", because I thought it was mishandled there - and because I was mad at him for mistreating Jack.

Back to Donna; removing memories seems to be a major theme in both Torchwood and Doctor Who. I have always thought it weird that Jack uses Retcon so freely when he resents having two years of his own memories taken from him. What does he feel about what the Doctor did to Donna? Acknowledges the need, regrets the necessity? It's an odd non-solution but I think the Doctor meant to be humane.

I'd like to think that Donna actually does remember, but will never admit it.

Another point: we didn't know the Doctor could remove memories like that, did we?

[karra.livejournal.com]

FYI, the preview is a bit misleading. There IS another episode (short, but still an episode) left, it airs on July 27th during the Dr Who Proms Concert. So we've still got that to look forward to til Christmas! Where, it looks like we finally get another male companion.

I have to wonder if the Doctor will tell Martha and Jack not to contact Donna, because...what would happen if they did?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

There IS another episode (short, but still an episode) left, it airs on July 27th during the Dr Who Proms Concert.

Cool. Good.

it looks like we finally get another male companion.

I like that. Even though I'll miss Martha and Donna and wouldn't mind seeing Sarah Jane in the TARDIS again, at least for the space of one adventure. If she doesn't want to leave Luke at home alone, she could bring him along.

I have to wonder if the Doctor will tell Martha and Jack not to contact Donna, because...what would happen if they did?

She'd love it if Jack came for a visit! Lots of plot possibilities there. Suppose Jack, who resented his own memories being stolen, told her the truth?

[raissad.livejournal.com]

And Donna?

That's the whole point. Ten said that if her memory was jarred by another meeting like that, the Time Lord part of her brain would overload and kill her. As with BadWolf Rose, the moral of the story is that humans can only withstand so much TimeLordness on a psychic level before they go boom, so steps must be taken.

Btw, there's precident for the method of Donna's departure:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoe_Heriot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_McCrimmon

As for Doctor 2 and Rose, I get why RTD did it. It was either give Rose the Doctor some way or actually kill her, because she would've stayed with Ten otherwise, and RTD was purposely wrapping things up. I also appreciated that Other Ten was a throwback to Nine, allowing commentary on that relationship. It was obvious from the ep. and commentary that Rose stayed with Other Ten, because he could say I love you. That said, I wish them well and hope that Other Ten isn't just the boobie prize that he came off as.

I loved that in addition to everyone else we got K-9, too. :) But, Luke isn't 14; he's more like two. I guess they just put that in to keep it simple for the folks who don't watch SJA.

I loved that Tosh saved her team mates.

I double loved that RTD finally tied Gwen back to Gwyneth from Unquiet Dead.

I loved the character moments and themes.

I didn't love the over abundant Deus Ex Machinas and techno babble, but those things have always been hallmarks of the RTD era finales, so I'll applaud him for consistency, if not narrative imagination.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

As with BadWolf Rose, the moral of the story is that humans can only withstand so much TimeLordness on a psychic level before they go boom, so steps must be taken.

I can accept that. Doesn't mean I don't think it could be reversable. There could be a way to shut down access to that part of her brain but still leave memories. Why not? It isn't what they did, it isn't what they want to do, but it could be done.

It was either give Rose the Doctor some way or actually kill her, because she would've stayed with Ten otherwise, and RTD was purposely wrapping things up.

Yes. I'm not sure if they needed wrapping up - this all could have happened without Rose - but that's okay, it was good to see her again, all competent and smart. I wish we'd had Jake instead of Mickey but that's just because I like Jake.

It was obvious from the ep. and commentary that Rose stayed with Other Ten, because he could say I love you.

I am convinced Time Lord Ten could say it: he just didn't dare because of the consequences. Which they both knew.

I wish them well and hope that Other Ten isn't just the boobie prize that he came off as.

Yes. I don't like the notion of the Doctor being mortal; it has the precendent of John Smith in "Human Nature", whom I didn't much like. I find it hard to picture him being domestic and himself at the same time. Interesting notion, though.

But, Luke isn't 14; he's more like two.

Yes. Odd that Sarah Jane should say that - maybe it's just habit, so as not to blow his cover. Or perhaps she doesn't want the Doctor to know who or what Luke is? Wants him to think it's her naturally born son? He knows she didn't have a kid in "School Reunion", unless she was just being cagey, but if he doesn't stop to think about it too much - maybe.

I loved that Tosh saved her team mates.

That was totally wonderful. I like the idea of the Hub being so well defended, too.

I double loved that RTD finally tied Gwen back to Gwyneth from Unquiet Dead.

Oh, yes! I didn't expect that at all. And there it was.

I didn't love the over abundant Deus Ex Machinas

No.

and techno babble,

I mostly like the techno babble and it was okay here, though admittedly excessive.

I'll applaud him for consistency, if not narrative imagination.

He does his thing. We're all along for the ride.

[raissad.livejournal.com]

Loved Action!Martha. I find it interesting that Tom Milligan was not so much as mentioned in this episode or last. It's the end of the world, and Martha subconsciously chooses to be with her mother and not her fiancé? That strikes me as odd.

It was probably logistics. With everything else going on narratively and/or actor schedules, they just couldn't fit him in.

Tom Milligan...

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

With everything else going on narratively and/or actor schedules, they just couldn't fit him in.

The actor may well have been busy, but since they have established him in Martha's life, he could at least have been mentioned. And 'fitting him in' narratively would just have been a matter of including him rather than Francine.

[sollersuk.livejournal.com]

9: I recollect that it is specified in canon that the Doctor nicked "borrowed" liberated went off with the Tardis in circumstances where he wouldn't exactly have the requisite number of collaborators.

[gypsylady.livejournal.com]

This is from wikipedia:

In the programme, the Doctor's TARDIS is an obsolete Type 40 TT capsule (presumably TT stands for "time travel") that he unofficially "borrowed" when he departed his home planet of Gallifrey. According to the Eighth Doctor Adventures novel The Gallifrey Chronicles by Lance Parkin, it previously belonged to a Time Lord named Marnal, who was, like the Doctor, something of a renegade. By the time of The Pirate Planet, the Doctor has been flying it for 523 years.

The idea that it takes six pilots is apparently new with this series, but as the design of the console has not changed and all the doctors (except Hartnell but I haven't seen all of his episodes so I could be wrong) ran around like spazzes while piloting, I think it is a valid assumption.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Well, yes, he left without the crew, but he could still acquire a crew. As I said somewhere above, I think the Doctor actually prefers to be alone, and hates it at the same time; but it's also quite possible that the TARDIS should have a full compliment of Time Lords to run it - oversized brains and psychic links or whatever - so substitutes won't do. Except in this episode where they could do what they did, with coaching.

I love, totally love, seeing Jack on the TARDIS.

[katkim.livejournal.com]

I would have liked a quiet moment somewhere. I was moved, but it was all... in a big way.

Although I'm largely satisfied with the episode, big bangs and all, I would have liked a few more conversations/reflections in the midst, too. I would have liked a proper conversation with Rose and Jack together to touch upon the consequences of Jack's immortality. I would have also liked more of Ten and Human!Ten. It was like The Doctor was as frightened of Human!Ten as he was of Jack and decided to leave him and run, leaving too much unresolved.

I did love the one quiet scene with Wilf and the Doctor at the end, though. For me, that's when the episode hit emotionally. Events and meanings were allowed to sink in, and I think the episode needed.

Loved Gramps better than ever, and it was nice to see Sylvia sticking up for Donna.

Bernard Cribbins has been wonderful throughout and I love him just as much as I love Donna (and Donna is my favourite companion out of the new). I liked that Sylivia stuck up for Donna, too. Poor Doctor, he's doomed to have always have a mother's dislike!

Rose now has her Doctor. I'm not sure I like the implication that a mortal can only love or live with another mortal - Ianto and Jack are doing fine with their asymmetrical affair. Our Doctor couldn't tell Rose he loved her because she would then never have left him.

Although I find Donna and the Doctor's relationship the most squee-worthy (I ship them so hard in a platonic way!), I find Rose's more interesting. I know a lot of people hate that the Doctor supposedly returns her feelings, but I actually like that. I think the Doctor loves all his companions equally, but in different ways. I personally have no problem with romantic love being one of those ways (even sexual love, although I do lean towards the Doctor being asexual). It's the incompatibility of that love with his Time-Lordiness and her humanness makes it all lovely in it's possibility and complexity :) The same issues probably applies to Ianto and Jack, which is why I like their relationship.

As such, I HATE that Rose has ended up with the half-Doctor. It's not a happy-ever-after (not that I wanted one for Rose and the Doctor) because he is NOT the Doctor, and there's no Tardis and no time travel. It's not the tragic ending that gave Doomsday it's punch. It's this weird-arse ending and I'm not sure what that doubtful/uncomfortable look Human!Doctor and Rose shared was suppose to mean...Meh.

I'm not sure why she had to go back to her other universe, but I'm not sorry she did.

I'm no sorry either, but I did feel that that Doctor was dumping Human!Ten with Rose to clean up the mess and running away as fast as he can! I think that undercut so many things.

Does this mean Mickey will join Torchwood?

Well, Jack has two vacancies :)

Loved Action!Martha.

I think Martha is the one companion who is so much more awesome when she's acting without the Doctor. Maybe it's reside resentment over the Doctor's treatment of her and how her crush kind of weakened her character, but oh - lone Martha rocks! I wish she'd get her own spin-off :) <3

Reply, Part 1

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I would have liked a proper conversation with Rose and Jack together to touch upon the consequences of Jack's immortality.

Yes. I liked it that they were warm and comfortable together, which is as it should be, but they were so caught up in the action, and she was so focussed on the Doctor, they got short shrift in terms of the rather significant relationship between them. I don't mind, I can fit it in through the cracks in my fannish way, but I'd like to have seen it. At least a bit of dialogue:

Jack: You made me immortal.
Rose: Yeah. I'm sorry, I really am.
Jack: No, it's great. Gives me scope. Thanks!
Rose: Well, all right then.

Only, you know, better written and with more depth. [g]

I would have also liked more of Ten and Human!Ten. It was like The Doctor was as frightened of Human!Ten as he was of Jack and decided to leave him and run, leaving too much unresolved.

I do think the Time Lord was avoiding the moral, and happy to be rid of him. Even though the mortal did him a favour, both in terms of saving the day, and in being a scapegoat for guilt.

I did love the one quiet scene with Wilf and the Doctor at the end, though.

That was lovely. I adore Wilf. I'm as sorry to lose him from teh story, as to lose Donna. Well... almost.

Poor Doctor, he's doomed to have always have a mother's dislike!

It'll be fun to see if they break this pattern next time. (Though Jackie grew quite fond!) Meanwhile, it's a cute theme.

I ship them so hard in a platonic way!

Hee. I love them together. Wonderful dialogue, excellent acting - I'm spoiled. How could whoever follows live up to this?

I know a lot of people hate that the Doctor supposedly returns her feelings, but I actually like that.

What, he's not supposed to love? I love it that the Doctor loves Rose. It's one of the things that drew me into the show. I have no interest in watching a Doctor without the capacity for love. I don't mind that he's totally screwed up: I'd be bored if he didn't care personally for people. And frankly, it's one of the reasons I'm hesitant to watch the classic episodes. I know they don't have what I want, that layer of interpersonal emotional pay-off. I do see him as sexual (very sexual, actually) but that isn't the point - the point is the sense of connection and intensity. He is not lonely because he doesn't like people, he is lonely because he can't have those he loves. Or the one he loves.

The glitch in this is that Rose isn't the one I'd have chosen for him to love, and I prefer the other companions, but that's okay, too.

Reply, part 2

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

It's the incompatibility of that love with his Time-Lordiness and her humanness makes it all lovely in it's possibility and complexity :)

Yup. I enjoy all that. And I don't even believe that they are in any way incompatible: the Doctor believes it, and that's what matters.

The same issues probably applies to Ianto and Jack, which is why I like their relationship.

It's an interesting part of it. Obviously no impediment to dabbling, but how will Ianto fare long term? Interesting speculation. Since I don't want Jack to settle down in any way, I'm happy with their arrangement.

It's not a happy-ever-after (not that I wanted one for Rose and the Doctor) because he is NOT the Doctor, and there's no Tardis and no time travel.

Yes. Rose was in love with the Doctor and also with his lifestyle. The Doctor without the lifestyle is a different person - especially if he lacks the Time Lord attributes. If he has the same personality, more or less, he will still be running - but what to? what from? Or will he change so much that he can accept a house with windows and two kids and a dog and taking the garbage out in the mornings? Will he take a name and a paycheque and social security? Buy a car?

I can't picture it. Either way, I can't picture it. Which in itself makes it almost intriguing, a conceptual problem to poke at. Will he be like John Smith, a shadow of himself? I don't think so: he has full knowledge of who and what he is. It's a fresh life and not a bad thing from is point of view - not bad, saving the universe a few minutes after you're born - but Rose? Will she be happy with what she has? Won't she still miss the TARDIS days, and see the contrast? I should think his resemblance to the Doctor would make it harder for her, not easier, though I suppose he shares Ten's memories.

It's not the tragic ending that gave Doomsday its punch.

That was such a climax. This lacked both intensity and depth, though it was a fun roller coaster ride. The aspect I liked best - the discussion of the moral aspect of wiping out Daleks - was not emphasized, and I'd have liked to have seen more of that - I'd have loved to have seen the Doctor discussing it with his companions. As it was, shifting the blame to mortal!Ten and carrying on didn't work thematically, it just worked in terms of plot. And perhaps the issue can't be resolved, but I find it fascinating and would like to see them work it a little more deeply.

It's this weird-arse ending and I'm not sure what that doubtful/uncomfortable look Human!Doctor and Rose shared was suppose to mean...Meh.

They'll have to sort of it out. I'll have to think about it. I wonder what the Rose/Doctor shippers think, the ones really invested in the relationship. My sense is that she didn't get the man she loves in any way.

I did feel that that Doctor was dumping Human!Ten with Rose to clean up the mess and running away as fast as he can!

Yes. I'm not sure how else he could have handled it. I'll have to think about all of this.

Jack has two vacancies :)

I'd rather he hired Jack. Or OC Andy. Or Tom Milligan. Or Detective Swanson. I could list more possibilities...! But no, RTD didn't ask me. Bother.

I don't believe Martha had a crush on the Doctor. I think she was (and still is) truly and deeply in love with him. I wish he'd loved her in return, but he didn't, so I just have to live with it.

lone Martha rocks! I wish she'd get her own spin-off :)

I'd be happy with that.

[monsieureden.livejournal.com]

Not reading any of this but I just started watching season one on side reel. Yay. :)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Yay! I hope you enjoy it. I love series 1 because I love Christopher Eccleston and the story arc and themes are totally brilliant. That being said, it takes a while to warm up. It isn't till, say, 'Dalek' that you start to sit up and say, "Waaait a minute here, there's depths to this show, like a philosophical iceberg on crack."

Or not: maybe it all depends on whether you can love the Doctor and buy into the myth. I could and did, of course. Once that happens, the earlier episodes gain nuance and lustre by their implications.

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

Does this mean Mickey will join Torchwood?

I think they were pretty strongly implying that both Mickey and Martha will join Torchwood - Jack even has that line about finding Martha something better than UNIT at the end.

a TARDIS is meant to be run by six people. So why doesn't the Doctor travel with five companions?

I don't know if he has ever had 5, but he has definitely travelled with several at a time in the older Who series.

Am I right that Martha still has her teleportation device? Cool

Only if she goes back to Germany and collects it - she wasn't wearing it when the Daleks took her out of the Osterhagen station.

Incidentally, how cool was it when the Daleks were speaking German?


The Doctor removed Donna's memories of him. Did we know he could do that

They seem to have effectively written her out - though not necessarily. She could always meet the Doctor again. Two coincidental meetings - why not a third? Which she would think was the first.

I hate that so much I am still largely incoherent about it and tend to end up muttering "bastards, bastards, bastards" a lot. But I believe the implication is that Donna can never be told or encounter anything again that would revive her memories without being destroyed.

And I hate it. Because she was so fantastic and now she's stuck back being stifled and small and believing she isn't special. And though I liked Sylvia finally sticking up for her, the way she told the Doctor to get out when he called her on attitude does not suggest to me that she is going to be any better at being supportive in the long run.

Donna deserved a far better ending than that.

Okay, I'm getting mad again. Time to stop.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I think they were pretty strongly implying that both Mickey and Martha will join Torchwood

I thought so too. I'm happy about Martha. Mixed feelings about Mickey - it depends what they do with him. My sense of Mickey is all tied up in his plot/theme with Rose. Without Rose, what is he like? I don't know. I'm not particularly curious but if they have ideas, it might be interesting. It would be interesting to have two members of the Torchwood team experienced in travel in time and space. And one of them with her personal post-Sontaran teleportation device.

Jack even has that line about finding Martha something better than UNIT at the end.

I love they way they are featuring UNIT, good and bad. I'd love to see Torchwood run the Valiant. (not that I don't love the Hub, and it seems they want to keep Torchwood's adventures in and around present-day Cardiff.)

I don't know if he has ever had 5, but he has definitely travelled with several at a time in the older Who series.

No reason he couldn't have as many companions as he wants. I assume the Doctor keeps himself to one or two companions now because of his post-Time-War PTSS problems. This has the following effects:

(1) we can focus on his relationships and interplay with one companion at a time, which makes for better stories

(2) we get a badly-behaved TARDIS that thinks for itself sometimes, leading to interesting storylines

(3) we get those wonderful scenes of the Doctor driving with his feet and hopping around the place and using percussive driving techniques

So I don't want him to get a full crew and 'fix' things. But I'm sure Jack would be helpful, if he kept him around for a bit - ! Okay, that was self-serving of me to say. But it was sincere. [g]

Only if she goes back to Germany and collects it - she wasn't wearing it when the Daleks took her out of the Osterhagen station.

If I was her, I'd pick it up. Can't leave something like that lying around. And if she goes back for it an it's gone, there's another plot waiting to be told.

how cool was it when the Daleks were speaking German?

I loved that almost as much as the Doctor speaking Judoon in the previous episode.

I hate that so much I am still largely incoherent about it and tend to end up muttering "bastards, bastards, bastards" a lot.

Understandable. I don't hate it, at least not yet, it hasn't touched my emotional buttons. But I'm struggling to know what to make of it.

I believe the implication is that Donna can never be told or encounter anything again that would revive her memories without being destroyed.

There's a way around anything. The Doctor's intentions are benign, but I want her to remember. Like people who spontaneously remember despite Retcon.

Because she was so fantastic and now she's stuck back being stifled and small and believing she isn't special.

Yes. I want her to remember that. Rose remembers everything except the height of the Vortex experience - why not get that for Donna? If the Doctor could remove memories, couldn't he fix it so that she just loses the Time Lord experience at the end?

I was actually uncomfortable with Donna-as-time-lord because it was (a) such an echo of Rose as vortex goddess and (b) unlike Donna - her special brilliant consists in being human, not being Time Lord. I loved that moment in "The Stolen Earth" when she proclaimed that being a human was as good as being a Time Lord. So - this wasn't a moment I liked. Must think it through.

though I liked Sylvia finally sticking up for her, the way she told the Doctor to get out when he called her on attitude does not suggest to me that she is going to be any better at being supportive in the long run.

No, I agree. The relationship won't have changed because Donna won't have changed. And Sylvia is still a controller.

Donna deserved a far better ending than that.

Yes. I haven't lost hope that we'll get it. I wonder what Steven Moffat thinks of Donna. Mind you, given what he did with River Song, I'm not sure he'd do better.

[jackarono.livejournal.com]

I was annoyed when the Dr offered to take Davros to safety in the end. Huh? What does a human have to do for the Dr. to think he deserves what he gets? Reminded me of his grief over the last Time Lord's death, when I'm sure I wasn't the only one who thought, "Good riddance!" Jack's more ruthless-- he at least froze his own brother.

[ceindreadh.livejournal.com]

Ugh yes. Davros and the Daleks caused the death of who knows how many people already. He wanted to wipe out every living soul in the entire universe but the Doctor is willing to take him on board the TARDIS?

Same goes for the Master. He enslaved the Earth, killed millions, kept Jack and Martha's family captive for a year, but hey, why not come and stay on the TARDIS with the Doctor. Ugh. (okay, I would have loved to see the adventures of the Master and the Doctor, but still, the guy did not deserve that)

[ceindreadh.livejournal.com]

Though if I was her, I'd still prefer to be with the Time Lord, travelling in time and space.

And that's why I think the Doctor had to leave her in the parallel universe. After what Davros said about the Doctor turning his companions into weapons, maybe he's finally thinking that he does need to be alone, and there's no way Rose would be in the same universe as him and not be travelling with him. I just hope that stranding her in a parallel universe that she can't get out of will actually take this time.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

After what Davros said about the Doctor turning his companions into weapons, maybe he's finally thinking that he does need to be alone, and there's no way Rose would be in the same universe as him and not be travelling with him.

But she's already a weapon, carrying a gun almost as big as Jack's. Leaving her in the other universe won't change that. Maybe the mortal Doctor can carry a big gun alongside her. After starting his life killing Daleks, he might well be a lean, mean killing machine.

See, my imagination isn't taking this in at all. No coherent pattern forms. It's bizarre. Kind of fun, but odd.

I can't see any logic by which the Doctor had to leave her in the other universe for her sake. It isn't safer or better for her. It had to be for his own sake - fear of that much commitment? Fear of losing her to age and death? Fear of losing her to danger he has brought her into? Fear of losing his independence?

Slightly off-topic ...

[duncanmac.livejournal.com]

How's your new computer? [I gather (or should it be "I hope"?) it's up & running and the old one is now superfluous. :-/]

Re: Slightly off-topic ...

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

dincanmac, it is a thing of beauty. It is delightful. Sheila set it up in no time flat. I was so impressed, and so happy.

[cupati.livejournal.com]

Ramblings:

I'll miss the hand, but not that blue suit. We can now assume that ten.1 has male anatomy (donna didn't sound suprised over and beyond, plus that's a human body, evben if no-where in donna's genetics does it tell you where to make a bloke...), he's got a human lifespan, he might decide to stick with Rose. She wouldn't let him any other way. Personally I believe what was whispered was "D'y want chips?", which means the same thing.

Whatever the Doctor said that translated as "I love you", whatever he meant by that, we'll never know. I may be just cynical because the most Doctor-like person I know has just become single, due to misunderstandings on the nature of love. The doctor is always seeking new experiences, and as ten.1 can't fly off into space, he'll probably try sex with Rose, if she wants it. Whether he'll try it a second time is what we have to wonder.

Both doctor!donna and ten.l were echoes of John Smith, especially with Donna's fear of becoming human again.

The Doctor is so alone again now, having gone from a full control room including another time lord to talk to, to nothing else, yet again. I hope he picks someone else up soon, I doubt I'll be able to cope with him being alone with all the mary-sues that'll be written! ;)

It's not my fault - I wasn't the one who made the reference - she did, she knows how I feel about him - all I'd want from anyone is companionship - it wasn't funny, but it was true - just let me travel with you!

Further ramblings tommorrow, probably.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I'll miss the hand, but not that blue suit.

Ahh, the Hand. Yes. I don't much care about the suit: the brown one is better, but I never saw anything much wrong with the blue. I prefer Nine's dress sense anyway.

I always thought that the Doctor in any incarnation had male anatomy. I took it as given, for numerous reasons. No surprise there. I also believe he likes sex and has no problems with the idea of sex with Rose, except circumstantially.

I believe what was whispered was "D'y want chips?"

Of course! And Rose would jump at any man who had the sense to offer a proposition like that.

Both doctor!donna and ten.l were echoes of John Smith, especially with Donna's fear of becoming human again.

And more palatable to me, since I didn't like John Smith, if you mean the John Smith of 'Human Nature'. I like this bloke much better; but I prefer Donna as a human.

I hope he picks someone else up soon, I doubt I'll be able to cope with him being alone with all the mary-sues that'll be written! ;)

I live in fear.

And I look forward to more ramblings from you.