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Well. End of another series. I'm going to miss this show very much indeed.

I watched this with Sheila. We had a bit of a marathon, starting with "Turn Left" and then "The Stolen Earth" before watching "Journey's End". It was nice to see the continuity.

Brief comments on 'Journey's End':
  1. Russell T Davies does seem to be plugging the holes and bringing back themes and plot points from all his previous seasons. Lots of 'reset' buttons being pushed.

  2. Loved the events at Torchwood - a time-locked fortress within Cardiff. And Tosh's doing, too - she saves them again from beyond the grave. I love it too that Jack had total faith they'd be alive when he got home, despite all indications.

  3. Captain Jack was wonderful in this episode. Just the way I like to see him. Well, actually, I'd have liked much more focus on him, and something more personal with the Doctor, but that's all right. The Doctor showed both appreciation and respect for him, the personal connection was there. My craving for the relationship between them elicited all sorts of good signs, even an implication that the Doctor, in his own flighty fashion, stays in touch with Jack.

    I was disappointed that the Doctor sabotaged the vortex manipulator again. Why's he so determined to keep Jack in one time? I also think Jack can fix the wristband, so it's a moot point. I am not unhappy.

  4. Does this mean Mickey will join Torchwood? I'm not sure I like that. I liked Mickey's role in Doctor Who mainly because of his connection with Rose. There is an interesting rationale for him on Torchwood: he's had experience in the other universe. Do I like Mickey enough to want him there? So far, no, but it all depends on the writing and the characterization. This is not the Mickey of series 1. Must remember that.

  5. The Doctor removed Donna's memories of him. Did we know he could do that?

  6. [livejournal.com profile] nina_ds had talked about 'noisy' episodes in this show, especially as finales, and I think it was. I liked it - even liked its noisiness - but there were so many pyrotechnics, so many wild tricks - I would have liked a quiet moment somewhere. I was moved, but it was all... in a big way.

  7. So did Donna become a sort of Bad Wolf herself? The Time Lord human? As a woman with a Time Lord brain, she was funny. I loved her as a companion, and will miss her.

  8. Jackie didn't have much of a role. I can't think why her presence was necessary to the story. Just for nostalgia's sake?

  9. Loved the explanation, hinted at before, that a TARDIS is meant to be run by six people. So why doesn't the Doctor travel with five companions? Perhaps because he likes his independence - one or two companions is good company, but more than that would crimp his style.

  10. Rose now has her Doctor. I'm not sure I like the implication that a mortal can only love or live with another mortal - Ianto and Jack are doing fine with their asymmetrical affair. Our Doctor couldn't tell Rose he loved her because she would then never have left him. I'm not sure why she had to go back to her other universe, but I'm not sorry she did.

    I have always liked the implication that the Doctor was upset by their parting in "Doomsday" not so much because they wereseparated (though he missed her) but because she had gone to that universe unwillingly, and was desperately unhappy with it. Now she can be content there. Though if I was her, I'd still prefer to be with the Time Lord, travelling in time and space.

  11. Loved it that Donna fancied Jack.

  12. Loved Gramps better than ever, and it was nice to see Sylvia sticking up for Donna. I love it that Gramps will remember the Doctor and Donna's adventures with him.

  13. Loved Action!Martha. I find it interesting that Tom Milligan was not so much as mentioned in this episode or last. It's the end of the world, and Martha subconsciously chooses to be with her mother and not her fiancé? That strikes me as odd.

  14. Is Dalek Caan still alive? He was not recreated from Davros' body, so I would assume he is. And the Daleks may return in future.

  15. The human Doctor destroyed the Daleks. Another connection, I assume, between humans and violence? Again, the Doctor is exculpated? Or is he? In this case, he didn't kill Daleks... he mostly just observed what was going on.

    I loved the discussion of his guilt: Davros pointing out that he may not use weapons but he has more or less trained humans as weapons. But they have their own free will, and the Doctor has his own guilty conscience. I loved all of that.

    I found Davros more interesting here than in "The Stolen Earth".

  16. I loved the force-filed prisons and the time-lock shields and so many of the alien-tech gimmicks. Including especially the use of the TARDIS. Tossing it into the incineratior! Woo.

  17. Loved it that Jack used his inability to die to outwit the Daleks, or try to.

  18. Am I right that Martha still has her teleportation device? Cool.

  19. I can hardly wait for more Sarah Jane Adventures. I hope we see more of Martha, too. Though I generally like the way Rose was used in series 4, I'm just as happy if we don't see her again. And Donna? They seem to have effectively written her out - though not necessarily. She could always meet the Doctor again. Two coincidental meetings - why not a third? Which she would think was the first.

    Though of course even without other workings of Destiny, their second meeting wasn't by chance: she'd been looking for him in the likely places for more than a year.

  20. I cried. I can't remember when I cried, but I did. Not at the end. Somewhere in the middle.

  21. The hand grew into the human Doctor, right? And no longer exists as a hand. Pity. I liked that hand.

  22. So what do I do now? Watch series 4 over again? Better still, watch series 1, 2, 3 and 4 again, topped off with Sarah Jane Adventures and Torchwood? It feels like a long time till I'll get anything new.



Date: 2008-07-06 07:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] katkim.livejournal.com
I would have liked a quiet moment somewhere. I was moved, but it was all... in a big way.

Although I'm largely satisfied with the episode, big bangs and all, I would have liked a few more conversations/reflections in the midst, too. I would have liked a proper conversation with Rose and Jack together to touch upon the consequences of Jack's immortality. I would have also liked more of Ten and Human!Ten. It was like The Doctor was as frightened of Human!Ten as he was of Jack and decided to leave him and run, leaving too much unresolved.

I did love the one quiet scene with Wilf and the Doctor at the end, though. For me, that's when the episode hit emotionally. Events and meanings were allowed to sink in, and I think the episode needed.

Loved Gramps better than ever, and it was nice to see Sylvia sticking up for Donna.

Bernard Cribbins has been wonderful throughout and I love him just as much as I love Donna (and Donna is my favourite companion out of the new). I liked that Sylivia stuck up for Donna, too. Poor Doctor, he's doomed to have always have a mother's dislike!

Rose now has her Doctor. I'm not sure I like the implication that a mortal can only love or live with another mortal - Ianto and Jack are doing fine with their asymmetrical affair. Our Doctor couldn't tell Rose he loved her because she would then never have left him.

Although I find Donna and the Doctor's relationship the most squee-worthy (I ship them so hard in a platonic way!), I find Rose's more interesting. I know a lot of people hate that the Doctor supposedly returns her feelings, but I actually like that. I think the Doctor loves all his companions equally, but in different ways. I personally have no problem with romantic love being one of those ways (even sexual love, although I do lean towards the Doctor being asexual). It's the incompatibility of that love with his Time-Lordiness and her humanness makes it all lovely in it's possibility and complexity :) The same issues probably applies to Ianto and Jack, which is why I like their relationship.

As such, I HATE that Rose has ended up with the half-Doctor. It's not a happy-ever-after (not that I wanted one for Rose and the Doctor) because he is NOT the Doctor, and there's no Tardis and no time travel. It's not the tragic ending that gave Doomsday it's punch. It's this weird-arse ending and I'm not sure what that doubtful/uncomfortable look Human!Doctor and Rose shared was suppose to mean...Meh.

I'm not sure why she had to go back to her other universe, but I'm not sorry she did.

I'm no sorry either, but I did feel that that Doctor was dumping Human!Ten with Rose to clean up the mess and running away as fast as he can! I think that undercut so many things.

Does this mean Mickey will join Torchwood?

Well, Jack has two vacancies :)

Loved Action!Martha.

I think Martha is the one companion who is so much more awesome when she's acting without the Doctor. Maybe it's reside resentment over the Doctor's treatment of her and how her crush kind of weakened her character, but oh - lone Martha rocks! I wish she'd get her own spin-off :) <3

Reply, Part 1

Date: 2008-07-06 02:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
I would have liked a proper conversation with Rose and Jack together to touch upon the consequences of Jack's immortality.

Yes. I liked it that they were warm and comfortable together, which is as it should be, but they were so caught up in the action, and she was so focussed on the Doctor, they got short shrift in terms of the rather significant relationship between them. I don't mind, I can fit it in through the cracks in my fannish way, but I'd like to have seen it. At least a bit of dialogue:
Jack: You made me immortal.
Rose: Yeah. I'm sorry, I really am.
Jack: No, it's great. Gives me scope. Thanks!
Rose: Well, all right then.
Only, you know, better written and with more depth. [g]

I would have also liked more of Ten and Human!Ten. It was like The Doctor was as frightened of Human!Ten as he was of Jack and decided to leave him and run, leaving too much unresolved.

I do think the Time Lord was avoiding the moral, and happy to be rid of him. Even though the mortal did him a favour, both in terms of saving the day, and in being a scapegoat for guilt.

I did love the one quiet scene with Wilf and the Doctor at the end, though.

That was lovely. I adore Wilf. I'm as sorry to lose him from teh story, as to lose Donna. Well... almost.

Poor Doctor, he's doomed to have always have a mother's dislike!

It'll be fun to see if they break this pattern next time. (Though Jackie grew quite fond!) Meanwhile, it's a cute theme.

I ship them so hard in a platonic way!

Hee. I love them together. Wonderful dialogue, excellent acting - I'm spoiled. How could whoever follows live up to this?

I know a lot of people hate that the Doctor supposedly returns her feelings, but I actually like that.

What, he's not supposed to love? I love it that the Doctor loves Rose. It's one of the things that drew me into the show. I have no interest in watching a Doctor without the capacity for love. I don't mind that he's totally screwed up: I'd be bored if he didn't care personally for people. And frankly, it's one of the reasons I'm hesitant to watch the classic episodes. I know they don't have what I want, that layer of interpersonal emotional pay-off. I do see him as sexual (very sexual, actually) but that isn't the point - the point is the sense of connection and intensity. He is not lonely because he doesn't like people, he is lonely because he can't have those he loves. Or the one he loves.

The glitch in this is that Rose isn't the one I'd have chosen for him to love, and I prefer the other companions, but that's okay, too.

Re: Reply, Part 1

Date: 2008-07-07 03:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kensieg.livejournal.com
I think that the Doctor finds any personal(with his body & mind) connection with humans icky! So he got the icky human Doctor as far away from him as possible.

Re: Reply, Part 1

Date: 2008-07-07 03:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
Hee! your Doctor is not my Doctor. He holds hands and hugs too much to find physical contact with humans icky. He just likes it on his own terms.

Reply, part 2

Date: 2008-07-06 02:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
It's the incompatibility of that love with his Time-Lordiness and her humanness makes it all lovely in it's possibility and complexity :)

Yup. I enjoy all that. And I don't even believe that they are in any way incompatible: the Doctor believes it, and that's what matters.

The same issues probably applies to Ianto and Jack, which is why I like their relationship.

It's an interesting part of it. Obviously no impediment to dabbling, but how will Ianto fare long term? Interesting speculation. Since I don't want Jack to settle down in any way, I'm happy with their arrangement.

It's not a happy-ever-after (not that I wanted one for Rose and the Doctor) because he is NOT the Doctor, and there's no Tardis and no time travel.

Yes. Rose was in love with the Doctor and also with his lifestyle. The Doctor without the lifestyle is a different person - especially if he lacks the Time Lord attributes. If he has the same personality, more or less, he will still be running - but what to? what from? Or will he change so much that he can accept a house with windows and two kids and a dog and taking the garbage out in the mornings? Will he take a name and a paycheque and social security? Buy a car?

I can't picture it. Either way, I can't picture it. Which in itself makes it almost intriguing, a conceptual problem to poke at. Will he be like John Smith, a shadow of himself? I don't think so: he has full knowledge of who and what he is. It's a fresh life and not a bad thing from is point of view - not bad, saving the universe a few minutes after you're born - but Rose? Will she be happy with what she has? Won't she still miss the TARDIS days, and see the contrast? I should think his resemblance to the Doctor would make it harder for her, not easier, though I suppose he shares Ten's memories.

It's not the tragic ending that gave Doomsday its punch.

That was such a climax. This lacked both intensity and depth, though it was a fun roller coaster ride. The aspect I liked best - the discussion of the moral aspect of wiping out Daleks - was not emphasized, and I'd have liked to have seen more of that - I'd have loved to have seen the Doctor discussing it with his companions. As it was, shifting the blame to mortal!Ten and carrying on didn't work thematically, it just worked in terms of plot. And perhaps the issue can't be resolved, but I find it fascinating and would like to see them work it a little more deeply.

It's this weird-arse ending and I'm not sure what that doubtful/uncomfortable look Human!Doctor and Rose shared was suppose to mean...Meh.

They'll have to sort of it out. I'll have to think about it. I wonder what the Rose/Doctor shippers think, the ones really invested in the relationship. My sense is that she didn't get the man she loves in any way.

I did feel that that Doctor was dumping Human!Ten with Rose to clean up the mess and running away as fast as he can!

Yes. I'm not sure how else he could have handled it. I'll have to think about all of this.

Jack has two vacancies :)

I'd rather he hired Jack. Or OC Andy. Or Tom Milligan. Or Detective Swanson. I could list more possibilities...! But no, RTD didn't ask me. Bother.

I don't believe Martha had a crush on the Doctor. I think she was (and still is) truly and deeply in love with him. I wish he'd loved her in return, but he didn't, so I just have to live with it.

lone Martha rocks! I wish she'd get her own spin-off :)

I'd be happy with that.

Re: Reply, part 2

Date: 2008-07-06 03:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] raissad.livejournal.com
From what I've seen. Doctor/Rose shippers either love the resolution in a can have their cake and eat too way, or they wish Rose had never come back/been killed off.

Re: Reply, part 2

Date: 2008-07-06 05:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
Both options make sense! - in their way. I tend more to the second reaction, but I also enjoyed seeing her with her big gun.

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