Wiscon curiosity and feminism...

[fajrdrako]

I was taking a peek at a site talking about Wiscon, out of curiosity. This caught my eye:

I was made incandescent with rage over academic elitism and incited to reactionary judgments by a panelist’s subjective experiences with Tolkien.

Tolkien, pro or con - always a nice topic for a controversy!

Also intriguing:

Today I attended my favorite panel so far. The discussion on hard sci-fi and on why lists of hard SF authors rarely include women was absolutely riveting, with brilliant panelists and an engaged crowd.

Okay, that sounds worth hearing - but what did they say?

Reminds me of something I was listening to on CBC radio a couple of days ago: an interview with women in Hollywood about why women make up only 16% of those in the film industry and only 26% in the television industry - and want to bet that's concentrated somewhat on daytime and 'women's' shows? The main topic was how all the big blockbuster movies (except Sex and the City) are made for boys and men - which I don't think is entirely true, I would have said the Indiana Jones was on the gender-neutral side, on the whole. But... that might reflect the circles I move in.

The movies I want to see just don't get made. I'm not holding my breath.

Comments

[darthhellokitty.livejournal.com]

incandescent with rage over academic elitism

Beats being incandescent with rage over LJ elections, or morning traffic...

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I have been known to sound like (or feel like) an academic elitist myself from time to time, which makes me even more curious to know what was said that the writer took offense to.

[darthhellokitty.livejournal.com]

About 90% of the time when someone gets called an elitist, I agree with them... I think I'm going to pre-emptively declare myself an elitist and be done with it.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I tend to get unnaturally suspicious when someone accuses someone else of elitism. It isn't that there aren't elitist pseudo-intellectuals around, but they don't tend to be the ones being talked about... Of course I know nothing about the case cited here (which makes me curious) but I see a certain value to a certain kind of elitism: a respect for knowledge, for example.

So who knows? But yes, I'm an intellectual elitist myself, though not (I hope) obnoxious about it.

[cionaudha.livejournal.com]

Somehow it's no longer polite to assume that educated people are educated.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

This makes my head ache... sometimes.

[agentxpndble.livejournal.com]

Okay, that sounds worth hearing - but what did they say?

I can't remember where I've seen reviews of this panel... But if you keep an eye on the friends page of the wiscon LJ, you will see quite a few people talking about the panels they attended, and reviews. Few of us are good about actually posting the review *in* the group - My reason for not doing that is that my "reviews" are really just my notes/experience and I'm not so sure I want to advertise my posts to the world at large (although should anyone find them, I'm not completely against them commenting.)

Anyway, if I see any more detailed reports of that panel (which I've heard from several people was awesome) I'll try and remember to come back and post a pointer to them.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Few of us are good about actually posting the review *in* the group - My reason for not doing that is that my "reviews" are really just my notes/experience and I'm not so sure I want to advertise my posts to the world at large

Understandable! Though of course those of us stuck at home, who'd like to be there but can't be, would love to hear your every thought.

I see any more detailed reports of that panel (which I've heard from several people was awesome) I'll try and remember to come back and post a pointer to them.

Thanks so much!

[walkingowl.livejournal.com]

I think both you and I should be glad that neither of us was able to be there...! I've just been reading people's summaries of events, there on the wiscon lj, and... gad.

Hope everyone recovers from the illness without undue complications. All have my full empathy; I just went through something exactly like that back in February, and the memories are vivid still.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

both you and I should be glad that neither of us was able to be there...!

The topics were interesting and I'd love to hear what was said on the panel about Martha Jones and racism/non-racism. Still. The stomach flu doesn't sound like any fun at all. And to be sick and travelling at the same time is horrible!

[agentxpndble.livejournal.com]

I'm positive that when ktempest is done fussing with the Rachel Moss thing, she will write up a detailed summary of the Martha panel - It rocked and she was a panelist. I may still write up some detail - what I remember, at least.

[cionaudha.livejournal.com]

*gasp*

Is that Martin Shaw??? I-- I-- I-- I LOVE HIM SO MUCH.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Me too.

Well... who wouldn't?

[cionaudha.livejournal.com]

Oh my God. I saw him in A Man for All Seasons a couple of years ago and was swept off my feet. At the risk of blasphemy, I thought he was much better than Scofield.

Perhaps it was just the emotion of the day, which began by kneeling to pay my respect to St Thomas More outside St Peter ad Vincula, but I don't think so. Shaw was so vivid; so desperate and hurt.

Adam Dalgliesh as embodied by Martin Shaw is my perfect man, really. (Though in no way do I merit a man that good.)

[agentxpndble.livejournal.com]

Bhuahahaha! Join us!

I run a site for the Professionals: http://www.ci5addict.com/
With a subpage with Martin Shaw screen caps and so forth: http://www.ci5addict.com/subpages/CI5pics_ms.html

And if you go to my journal and hit the martin_shaw tag, you will get me blathering on about him. (http://agentxpndble.livejournal.com/tag/martin_shaw)

:)))

I was lucky enough to see him in Man For All Seasons Too - It was amazing.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I saw him in A Man for All Seasons a couple of years ago and was swept off my feet.

I sigh in envy. A couple of my friends flew over to England to see that. I couldn't. I have no trouble believing that he was better than Schofield. I prefer Shaw as an actor. (Though I did once see Schofield do a wonderful version of Volpone. He was great. But he wasn't Martin Shaw.)

Perhaps it was just the emotion of the day, which began by kneeling to pay my respect to St Thomas More outside St Peter ad Vincula

Very cool! I always liked it that Crosby Hall, which is where I lived when I lived in London, was on the site where More lived. And had a statue of him.

Adam Dalgliesh as embodied by Martin Shaw is my perfect man, really.

I haven't seen that yet. I'm almost scared to.

[omnivorously.livejournal.com]

"The movies I want to see just don't get made. I'm not holding my breath."

And the female characters I want to see are never in the ones that do get made.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

the female characters I want to see are never in the ones that do get made.

Who are you thinking of?

The CBC interview quoted an unnamed producer in Hollywood as saying that "movies, even action movies, about women don't sell" - so they're making no more movies about women at that studio. Seems to me that if movies like Elektra or Catwoman hadn't been badly-made movies with nonsensical scripts, they might have been popular - it isn't that their leads were female, it's that they were crappy movies.

Seems to me the world is become more sexist than it was and I don't like it.

[cionaudha.livejournal.com]

Movies I'm not holding my breath for:

One about Gertrude Bell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gertrude_Bell).

A typical detective picture, but with a woman detective. And it can't be a case involving children. I hate that. We know other stuff!

Oo, and Mata Hari (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mata_Hari)!

Something about WWI munitions girls, WWII ambulance drivers, early war nursing.


I'm not sure it's becoming more sexist. It seems to me the same amount of sexism as ever, but popping up in different places, like Whack-A-Mole.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Gertrude Bell - I was recently reading about her in Maria Doria Russell's novel. I'd like to see something about Hester Stanhope, too.

A typical detective picture, but with a woman detective. And it can't be a case involving children.

I'd like to see any of Sue Grafton's novels filmed.

Mata Hari, definitely! I like all your suggestions.

It seems to me the same amount of sexism as ever, but popping up in different places, like Whack-A-Mole.

Maybe. It just seems to me that twenty-five years ago there was more sense of optimism, things were improving, there were movies about women and for woman - and more movies intended for a 'general' audience.

[omnivorously.livejournal.com]

They barely exist anywhere at all, but there's a bunch in Fullmetal Alchemist. Izumi, out of Hollywood? Never in a million years. And Admiral Cain from BSG is a lot like General Armstrong from FMA, but Armstrong is a terrifying hardass who's also a good guy. You should definitely read the FMA manga ...

Actually, I like the female characters in BSG quite a lot.

But Cordelia Naismith or anyone like her won't make it to the big screen any time soon. Nor Revy and Balalaika from Black Lagoon, not without having their characters twisted way out of shape.

"movies, even action movies, about women don't sell"

That is soooo like blaming the rape victim, omfg what the hell is wrong with this world? Nothing new, I guess ...

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

You should definitely read the FMA manga ...

I'd like to!

Cordelia Naismith or anyone like her won't make it to the big screen any time soon.

Sadly true. We don't even get Miles.

That is soooo like blaming the rape victim

Yup.

Nothing new, I guess ...

No, but it's broken and I want it fixed!

[omnivorously.livejournal.com]

Read it here!
http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/

Izumi and Gen. Armstrong don't show up for a little while, though. But Ed is Miles-esque in certain ways ...

[fairestcat]

I've heard good things about the women in hard SF panel. The race in fantasy one on the other hand, which is what I guess the first comment is referring to, I have heard multiple people refer to as a clusterfuck of epic proportions. badgerbag has a post up with a partial transcript of the panel actually if you want a taste of it yourself. Me, I'm happy I missed it for the Panic concert.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

he race in fantasy one on the other hand, which is what I guess the first comment is referring to, I have heard multiple people refer to as a clusterfuck of epic proportions.

Oh dear! And it had such potential to be interesting.

I'm happy I missed it for the Panic concert.

Good choice!]