![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
Title: Companionship
Fandom: Torchwood/Doctor Who
Characters: Jack, Sarah Jane Smith
Challenge: Way back in May I accepted a challenge from
neadods to write a 'first kiss' scene between Captain Jack Harkness and Sarah Jane Smith. I did not forget. I was not even slow to start working on it, as I loved the idea. But I wrote one scenario after another and discarded them as inadequate or unconvincing. It proved to be extraordinarily difficult. Here at last is a version I like enough to post.
Rating: G
Disclaimer: Not mine, no claims, all property of the BBC.
Notes: Spoilers for Doctor Who episode "The Last of the Time Lords", with a fleeting reference to "School Reunion". Cross-posted to galactic_conman and dwfiction.
Companionship
From the very beginning, Sarah Jane Smith did not trust Captain Jack Harkness. He'd come sailing out of nowhere, appearing on her doorstep with a smile full of promises and a mouth full of lies.
Clearly he knew some things about the Doctor. He'd met Rose, yes, that she could believe. He'd been on the TARDIS, obviously; his information was too good to have been acquired any other way. Beyond that, she believed nothing. There were too many things he didn't say, or couldn't, or wouldn't. He'd met the Doctor - that didn't necessarily make him any kind of a friend of the Doctor, least of all a friend of hers.
She did some research on him, and came up with an inescapable fact: there were no records of any American named Captain Jack Harkness being in the UK since 1941. He was false as a Titanian brisket, this Captain, and she intended to keep her eye on him.
His organization, Torchwood, was even worse. It seemed everyone with any actual power knew about Torchwood, but no one knew the important details. The whole institution looked like a powder keg. She had a good talk with UNIT; they were suspicious of Torchwood, too. "Weaponry no one should have," they said, and "too much power, too little accountability". It seems Queen Victoria set up Torchwood under suspicious circumstances, to guard the world against alien threats in general and the Doctor in particular.
This was an expose waiting to be written, even if it was another article that should never see the light of day. Since Torchwood under Harkness seemed to pose no immediate threat, and the rest had disappeared with the Battle of Canary Wharf, she let it go for the sake of more immediate matters. When Captain Jack again turned up on her doorstep, she told him to go away and not come back.
One day, more than a year after the Battle of Canary Wharf, he broke the silence. She received a telephone call from Captain Jack Harkness.
"I've seen him," he said, without preamble. "I have news. Do you want to hear?"
There was only one person he could be talking about. She shouldn't listen. It might be a lie. But she'd had no word for so very long, not since the Krillitanes had invaded that school. She said, "Very well. Come to my place."
"On my way," he said, and disconnected. It was probably literally true: he no doubt rang her from his car. She put the kettle on for tea, and tried not to pace in anticipation. Luke was off somewhere with Maria, and she was glad - she wasn't sure how to explain Captain Jack to Luke. She wouldn't lie about him, of course, she didn't lie to Luke. But she didn't much want to talk about the mysterious Captain, either.
When Jack tapped on her door twenty minutes later, Sarah Jane had already finished half of her own cup of tea. His smile was as she remembered. She ignored it. "Come in," she said. "Care for some tea?" She hoped she managed to sound sufficiently casual. Friendly but not gullible. Businesslike.
"I'd rather a glass of water," he said, and she got it for him. They sat in her living room, with Jack in the large, comfortable chair, while she sat on the sofa. He said, "The TARDIS came to Cardiff to refuel. I hitched a ride. On the outside."
As he continued, she saw how absurd it was, like all his stories. A severed hand, as some sort of Doctor alert? Riding the time vortex hanging onto the outside the of TARDIS - what was he, Spider-Man? Going to the end of time? Searching for Utopia? Well, that all sounded like the Doctor, right enough, he was always into wild extremes, and seemed to be more so inclined as time went on. Not that time ever just 'went on' for the Doctor.
Captain Jack's story got more and more outrageous. Meeting another Time Lord at the end of time, one who'd lost his memory, who turned out to be a friend of the Doctor, but insane and power-hungry. Harold Saxon and Archangel. Toclafanes and warfare. A year that never was, of imprisonment, enslavement and resistance. Martha Jones, saviour of mankind. Deceptions, tricks of the mind, and psychic magic.
Sarah Jane listened to him without interruption. "Quite a story," she said, mildly, when he stopped.
"Yes."
"If I didn't know him, I wouldn't believe any of it."
"But you know him."
"I was looking into the disappearance of Harold Saxon."
"Oh?"
"And the way he popped up a couple of years ago. He was almost as mysterious as you."
Jack smiled at that. "No one is as mysterious as me."
"...But your ego is bigger."
"Not just my ego," he murmured, but she pretended not to have heard him.
She tried to picture the scene he described. The gunshot, the woman in red. The Doctor in tears. "He loved him?"
"The Master was the only other living Time Lord. The Doctor wanted to save him. It was his last chance... He couldn't save the others, back in the Time War. He thought he could maybe save this one. Just this one."
"Chivalrous nonsense," she snapped, and found herself on the verge of tears herself.
"Not nonsense. It's what he is. It's why we love him."
She looked at him quizzically. "We?"
"You. Me. Rose. Martha, too. How could we not?"
Jack was a con man, an actor. She knew that. But looking at him now, she believed that he knew the Doctor, believed that he loved him, that the Doctor had touched him in the same way he had her, and triggered a soul-deep change. Some people, after meeting the Doctor, would never be the same again.
Jack reached over and took her hand, squeezing it.
"How could we not?" she echoed. "I wish... How he must be hurting. I wish we could help."
"He'll find us if he needs us," said Jack. He kissed her hand, comforting her. Then he kissed it again.
She looked at him suspiciously, though didn't pull her hand away. "Jack Harkness. Are you coming on to me?"
He did not let go of her hand, which he had lifted to his lips. She could feel his warm breath against her knuckles as he held it there. Without moving his lips away from her skin, he lifted an eyebrow and said quizzically, as if it were another question rather than an answer, "Yes?"
She pulled her hand away quickly, and tried not to wish she hadn't. "Idiot man. I'm too old for flirtation."
He laughed - not at her, but in a warm sort of way that made even the air around him feel good. "Sarah Jane Smith, how old are you? Fifty at most? I have a century on you, and I'm not too old for flirtation. We both know someone pushing a thousand. Doesn't he make you feel young?"
"I miss him," she said bluntly. She felt like crying again. She was the idiot, a weepy old fool. She was usually more careful than this. But Jack's news about the Doctor had unsettled her, and Jack himself.... She realized how badly she had misjudged him before, and was furious with herself for it. He had needed her friendship, and she had coldly withheld it. Had she turned into such a suspicious old curmudgeon that she didn't know a friend when she met one?
"I miss him, too," said Jack gently. "Every day. Always. But it makes life worth living, you know? He's out there, doing his thing. And one day he'll return." He stood. So did she. He pulled her into his arms as if it was the most natural thing in the world, and Sarah Jane let herself accept it. He was a link to the Doctor. A link to her past and the planet's future, even if he and she hadn't shared that time together. A link to a world out there of planets and aliens and adventures and dangers and doing things that must be done.
He had a very comforting hug.
She said, "What's this about you being more than a hundred years old?"
"A hundred and fifty. But looking good, don't you think?"
"Are you human?"
"Completely."
"Then how...?"
He kissed her, lightly, on the lips. "It's a long story. It involves the fifty-first century, and the Time Agency... or maybe the year 200,100 and a Game Station... or maybe a girl hanging from a barrage balloon in the Blitz. Tell you what. Let's order Chinese and I'll tell you the story of Captain Jack Harkness and how he became immortal."
"Immortal?"
"And hungry! Have a heart. I drove all the way from Cardiff and I haven't had any lunch."
"There's a really good Chinese place just around the corner. I'll call them - Luke loves it."
"Luke?"
"I can tell you a story or two as well, Captain. Did you know I'm a mother now?"
He sat, laughing. "You're full of surprises."
"It comes with the territory. Egg rolls, do you think?"
"Definitely egg rolls," agreed Jack.
- end -
Fandom: Torchwood/Doctor Who
Characters: Jack, Sarah Jane Smith
Challenge: Way back in May I accepted a challenge from
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
Rating: G
Disclaimer: Not mine, no claims, all property of the BBC.
Notes: Spoilers for Doctor Who episode "The Last of the Time Lords", with a fleeting reference to "School Reunion". Cross-posted to galactic_conman and dwfiction.
Companionship
From the very beginning, Sarah Jane Smith did not trust Captain Jack Harkness. He'd come sailing out of nowhere, appearing on her doorstep with a smile full of promises and a mouth full of lies.
Clearly he knew some things about the Doctor. He'd met Rose, yes, that she could believe. He'd been on the TARDIS, obviously; his information was too good to have been acquired any other way. Beyond that, she believed nothing. There were too many things he didn't say, or couldn't, or wouldn't. He'd met the Doctor - that didn't necessarily make him any kind of a friend of the Doctor, least of all a friend of hers.
She did some research on him, and came up with an inescapable fact: there were no records of any American named Captain Jack Harkness being in the UK since 1941. He was false as a Titanian brisket, this Captain, and she intended to keep her eye on him.
His organization, Torchwood, was even worse. It seemed everyone with any actual power knew about Torchwood, but no one knew the important details. The whole institution looked like a powder keg. She had a good talk with UNIT; they were suspicious of Torchwood, too. "Weaponry no one should have," they said, and "too much power, too little accountability". It seems Queen Victoria set up Torchwood under suspicious circumstances, to guard the world against alien threats in general and the Doctor in particular.
This was an expose waiting to be written, even if it was another article that should never see the light of day. Since Torchwood under Harkness seemed to pose no immediate threat, and the rest had disappeared with the Battle of Canary Wharf, she let it go for the sake of more immediate matters. When Captain Jack again turned up on her doorstep, she told him to go away and not come back.
One day, more than a year after the Battle of Canary Wharf, he broke the silence. She received a telephone call from Captain Jack Harkness.
"I've seen him," he said, without preamble. "I have news. Do you want to hear?"
There was only one person he could be talking about. She shouldn't listen. It might be a lie. But she'd had no word for so very long, not since the Krillitanes had invaded that school. She said, "Very well. Come to my place."
"On my way," he said, and disconnected. It was probably literally true: he no doubt rang her from his car. She put the kettle on for tea, and tried not to pace in anticipation. Luke was off somewhere with Maria, and she was glad - she wasn't sure how to explain Captain Jack to Luke. She wouldn't lie about him, of course, she didn't lie to Luke. But she didn't much want to talk about the mysterious Captain, either.
When Jack tapped on her door twenty minutes later, Sarah Jane had already finished half of her own cup of tea. His smile was as she remembered. She ignored it. "Come in," she said. "Care for some tea?" She hoped she managed to sound sufficiently casual. Friendly but not gullible. Businesslike.
"I'd rather a glass of water," he said, and she got it for him. They sat in her living room, with Jack in the large, comfortable chair, while she sat on the sofa. He said, "The TARDIS came to Cardiff to refuel. I hitched a ride. On the outside."
As he continued, she saw how absurd it was, like all his stories. A severed hand, as some sort of Doctor alert? Riding the time vortex hanging onto the outside the of TARDIS - what was he, Spider-Man? Going to the end of time? Searching for Utopia? Well, that all sounded like the Doctor, right enough, he was always into wild extremes, and seemed to be more so inclined as time went on. Not that time ever just 'went on' for the Doctor.
Captain Jack's story got more and more outrageous. Meeting another Time Lord at the end of time, one who'd lost his memory, who turned out to be a friend of the Doctor, but insane and power-hungry. Harold Saxon and Archangel. Toclafanes and warfare. A year that never was, of imprisonment, enslavement and resistance. Martha Jones, saviour of mankind. Deceptions, tricks of the mind, and psychic magic.
Sarah Jane listened to him without interruption. "Quite a story," she said, mildly, when he stopped.
"Yes."
"If I didn't know him, I wouldn't believe any of it."
"But you know him."
"I was looking into the disappearance of Harold Saxon."
"Oh?"
"And the way he popped up a couple of years ago. He was almost as mysterious as you."
Jack smiled at that. "No one is as mysterious as me."
"...But your ego is bigger."
"Not just my ego," he murmured, but she pretended not to have heard him.
She tried to picture the scene he described. The gunshot, the woman in red. The Doctor in tears. "He loved him?"
"The Master was the only other living Time Lord. The Doctor wanted to save him. It was his last chance... He couldn't save the others, back in the Time War. He thought he could maybe save this one. Just this one."
"Chivalrous nonsense," she snapped, and found herself on the verge of tears herself.
"Not nonsense. It's what he is. It's why we love him."
She looked at him quizzically. "We?"
"You. Me. Rose. Martha, too. How could we not?"
Jack was a con man, an actor. She knew that. But looking at him now, she believed that he knew the Doctor, believed that he loved him, that the Doctor had touched him in the same way he had her, and triggered a soul-deep change. Some people, after meeting the Doctor, would never be the same again.
Jack reached over and took her hand, squeezing it.
"How could we not?" she echoed. "I wish... How he must be hurting. I wish we could help."
"He'll find us if he needs us," said Jack. He kissed her hand, comforting her. Then he kissed it again.
She looked at him suspiciously, though didn't pull her hand away. "Jack Harkness. Are you coming on to me?"
He did not let go of her hand, which he had lifted to his lips. She could feel his warm breath against her knuckles as he held it there. Without moving his lips away from her skin, he lifted an eyebrow and said quizzically, as if it were another question rather than an answer, "Yes?"
She pulled her hand away quickly, and tried not to wish she hadn't. "Idiot man. I'm too old for flirtation."
He laughed - not at her, but in a warm sort of way that made even the air around him feel good. "Sarah Jane Smith, how old are you? Fifty at most? I have a century on you, and I'm not too old for flirtation. We both know someone pushing a thousand. Doesn't he make you feel young?"
"I miss him," she said bluntly. She felt like crying again. She was the idiot, a weepy old fool. She was usually more careful than this. But Jack's news about the Doctor had unsettled her, and Jack himself.... She realized how badly she had misjudged him before, and was furious with herself for it. He had needed her friendship, and she had coldly withheld it. Had she turned into such a suspicious old curmudgeon that she didn't know a friend when she met one?
"I miss him, too," said Jack gently. "Every day. Always. But it makes life worth living, you know? He's out there, doing his thing. And one day he'll return." He stood. So did she. He pulled her into his arms as if it was the most natural thing in the world, and Sarah Jane let herself accept it. He was a link to the Doctor. A link to her past and the planet's future, even if he and she hadn't shared that time together. A link to a world out there of planets and aliens and adventures and dangers and doing things that must be done.
He had a very comforting hug.
She said, "What's this about you being more than a hundred years old?"
"A hundred and fifty. But looking good, don't you think?"
"Are you human?"
"Completely."
"Then how...?"
He kissed her, lightly, on the lips. "It's a long story. It involves the fifty-first century, and the Time Agency... or maybe the year 200,100 and a Game Station... or maybe a girl hanging from a barrage balloon in the Blitz. Tell you what. Let's order Chinese and I'll tell you the story of Captain Jack Harkness and how he became immortal."
"Immortal?"
"And hungry! Have a heart. I drove all the way from Cardiff and I haven't had any lunch."
"There's a really good Chinese place just around the corner. I'll call them - Luke loves it."
"Luke?"
"I can tell you a story or two as well, Captain. Did you know I'm a mother now?"
He sat, laughing. "You're full of surprises."
"It comes with the territory. Egg rolls, do you think?"
"Definitely egg rolls," agreed Jack.
- end -
no subject
Date: 2007-10-19 08:22 pm (UTC)We'll just have to wait and see how they play that. Only about two months to go.
don't get me started on the Doctor disabling Jack's vortex manipulator! Grrrrrr
Yes, Grrrrr - with a Weevil accent!
no subject
Date: 2007-10-19 08:25 pm (UTC)Grr with a weevil accent is right! I can't believe how the Doctor did it so dismisively! Making jokes like Jack's not responsible enough to have that sort of tech!
no subject
Date: 2007-10-19 08:32 pm (UTC)I try not to have expectations, especially low ones. At the time "The Last of the Time Lords" aired, it was hard to feel very optimistic about the ending. But now, with a lot of rationalization applied to the subject, and my sense of ipatience/withdrawal kicking in, I'm looking forward to any kind of a new Doctor Who episode.
I can't believe how the Doctor did it so dismisively! Making jokes like Jack's not responsible enough to have that sort of tech!
You'd think he'd be entrusting him with more, if anything. Jack has earned a lot of faith and respect on the Doctor's part, I'd say. And doesn't seem to be getting it.
Still, it's the Doctor, and most of all it's Ten, who doesn't seem to have a handle on either manners or gratitude. I try to take it as a kind of tease between two people who know and love each other so well that neither takes it amiss, and Jack is happy enough to have the Doctor exile him exactly where he wants to be, and where the Doctor can find him whenever he wishes.
Still. If Jack has earned anything (and he has), it's the right to freedom of choice.
no subject
Date: 2007-10-19 08:38 pm (UTC)I really wondered if I was the only one who was thinking that. It goes along with what you were saying about the faith and trust Jack should have earned by now. I find myself liking the Doctor a bit less and less by these actions.
Jack is happy enough to have the Doctor exile him exactly where he wants to be, and where the Doctor can find him whenever he wishes.
Someone (can't remember who, sorry) pointed out that maybe that's why the Doctor disabled it, so the Doctor would be able to locate Jack whenever HE needed Jack.
no subject
Date: 2007-10-19 09:03 pm (UTC)Yes. Having endured a year of captivity for the Doctor's sake, Jack deserved a little less casual treatment from the Doctor after waiting for him for 138 years. An apology for being told he was 'wrong'? Thanks for his help? I'd have been happy if he'd had as much of a 'thank you' as Martha got in "The Family of Blood". After all... the last time Jack saw the Doctor, he died for his sake. In good faith, and willingly. And now the Doctor has the nerve to be angry with him because of Torchwood! Hard to please, or what.
My ray of hope in the matter is that the 'big picture' story isn't over yet and there may well be a story later on that gives us a more satisfying angle on the relationship between Jack and the Doctor. (Which is, for me, a central focus.) But it does change my sense of the balance between them. The mentor no longer has the role of any kind of moral superiority.
Someone (can't remember who, sorry) pointed out that maybe that's why the Doctor disabled it, so the Doctor would be able to locate Jack whenever HE needed Jack.
Yes. I like that better than any other explanation, but it has two problems. (1) It feels like fan-wank, true though it may be. and (2) It still implies high-handed choice-making on the Doctor's part. It isn't as if Jack had been avoiding him for 138 years - more a case of, in all that time, Jack would come running if only he whistled. The Doctor could have just said, "Keep in touch." Or given him a cell phone.
no subject
Date: 2007-10-19 09:10 pm (UTC)Absolutely and no doubt about it. While fics about about what Jack went through during the year that wasn't it no matter how off base they may be the Doctor still should acknowledge what happened (and why) to Jack on the Game Station, his own part in what happened to Jack afterwards (all those deaths, all that waiting) and the horrors of whatever happened on the Valiant. When Jack nearly begged for understanding over heading Torchwood I wanted to smack Ten.
It's totally fan-wank and high-handed... The Doctor could easily have come up with 100 ways to keep tabs on Jack, but instead he sucker punches him. Nice.
Presumedly the big picture isn't over. I can't imagine RTD not having Capt Jack crossing over to DW again
no subject
Date: 2007-10-19 09:17 pm (UTC)Yes - and Jack looked so desperate, and hurt, trying to explain himself. I wanted to shout at the Doctor: "You ungrateful wretch! It's so clear he's done it all for you, all these years, and you don't even get it."
The Doctor could easily have come up with 100 ways to keep tabs on Jack, but instead he sucker punches him. Nice.
Yes. It's more like something you'd expect from the Master. Not that the Doctor hasn't been high-handed in the past, and not that he necessarily shouldn't be, but it would be nice to see him do it with people who deserved it, rather than the person who most deserves better from him.
no subject
Date: 2007-10-19 09:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-10-19 09:38 pm (UTC)I would have forgiven all if there had been a kind word, or a hug, or a 'thank you' at the end. Instead the Doctor dismantles the Vortex Manipulator and we get the Face of Boe joke. Erck. I'm still looking for resolution there.
And here I'd foolishly thought Russell T. Davies liked the Jack/Ten relationship as much as I did.
no subject
Date: 2007-10-19 09:43 pm (UTC)It just... errrr... no words can begin to explain how much Ten annoyed my by the way he treated Jack in S3. The man died for you, over and over, have some respect!
no subject
Date: 2007-10-21 08:40 pm (UTC)I loved the way Jack seemed to just effortlessly fall into the role of First Mate of the TARDIS, doing what needed to be done, and loving the vessel as much as the Doctor.
<i>Jack knew what Nine was planning for the Daleks and that it pretty much meant his death and he didn't care.</i>
It was an honourable death, done for the sake of - among other things - someone he loved. It lived up to all that Jack admired. And that the Doctor know he would do it, asked him to do it, and expected him to do it was a good thing - it showed that he had total faith in Jack's character and love. I had no problem with any of that. I loved it.
But with Ten... take away the affection, and it looks like abuse.
<i>doesn't even apologize when given the opportunity ("Did I? Busy life, moved on")</i>
And it isn't as if he doesn't have plenty of opportunity later. The callousness is staggering.
<i>The man died for you, over and over, have some respect!</i>
And appreciation. And understanding. Ten treats Jack as if he's a disposable tool.
no subject
Date: 2007-10-21 09:23 pm (UTC)Exactly!!! There is no respect, no acknowledgement, just (like you said) callousness.
Ten treats Jack as if he's a disposable tool.
Yep, like he knows Jack can't die so he can just throw him to the wolves as often as possible
no subject
Date: 2007-10-21 09:26 pm (UTC)With no particular concern for the consequences. The Master might have killed Jack. From the Doctor's point of view, would that have changed anything?
His treatment of Martha isn't much better.
no subject
Date: 2007-10-21 09:29 pm (UTC)It was interesting to see Jack and Martha's interactions, all 30 seconds of them
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2007-10-20 05:03 am (UTC)Hope you don't mind me jumping in to agree with you (mostly) both. I freaking hate the FoB "revelation", the Doctor's high-handedness (makes me really, really wish I hadn't seen that footage on youtube.com back in Feb./March, because I totally read it wrong... I thought the Doctor was giving Jack a way to keep in touch, not breaking the Vortex Manipulator, taking away the time travel and teleportation capabilities again), his lack of concern and compassion for Jack (Jack's deaths in front of the Doctor, and no reaction, didn't try to make Jack's coming back to life more comfortable), and yes, his lack of faith in Jack, which I think Jack more than earned (trust and faith on the Doctor's part) when Jack literally died for the Doctor.
RTD has killed my love for Doctor Who, with that one episode (which I prefer to refer to as The Episode That Never Was). I really don't care if I see the Christmas special this year, or next year's episodes (although I probably will, because I want to see Felicity Kendal in an episode). I won't be watching them as soon as I can, after watching them.
I really wonder if RTD likes/enjoys writing Jack, the way Jack was sidelined in the finale, and the way the Doctor treats him. I wouldn't be at all surprised if RTD just wanted Jack to be Muscle Man in the 1st series finale, and didn't care about ever using the character again, after that, and just used Jack to get his show, Torchwood on the air, that the BBC would be interested in having it with a popular character. Maybe the Beeb weren't/wouldn't have been, without Jack?
I'm so ticked off with the Doctor currently that I wouldn't have completely forgiven him if he'd treated Jack decently, but I would have been more happy with him and I'd be looking forward more than I am (ie., not at all, right now) to see more DW. I think that the show has done a real disservice to all of the companions since it came back - Rose became incredibly dislikeable with 10, with their little clique attitude and I was really glad to get rid of her; Martha was made to feel like she couldn't possibly live up to the awesomeness of Rose (and oh lord did I ever get tired of all the Rose references in the 3rd series!); Jack, the horrible way 10 treated him; Mickey, how Rose and 10 treated him, and even Adam, the explanation was cut from the episode, why he needed and wanted the information from the future.
Damn, I should stop venting about that episode.
reply part 1
Date: 2007-10-20 02:57 pm (UTC)It can only be a good thing.
It works for me, Sarah Jane being very suspicious of Jack and holding him at arm's length, and then becoming much more warm towards him by the end.
I like the pattern because it's the same thing that happened beween Jack and the Doctor. The Doctor saw right through Jack's lies, didn't trust him an inch, and didn't let him get away with the deceptions. Jack then proved himself to be worthy of friendship and love, and capable of heroism. I was trying to echo that change in attitude. (Not consciously; this is something I see now that it's finished.)
Rose, of course, doesn't mind a handsome, flirty rogue, even if she knows he's a liar, and especially if he's saved her life. So their relationship had an entirely different pattern.
he Doctor's high-handedness (makes me really, really wish I hadn't seen that footage on youtube.com back in Feb./March, because I totally read it wrong... I thought the Doctor was giving Jack a way to keep in touch
Me too. I was seeing what I expect to see, and what I wanted to see. Aaargh!
his lack of concern and compassion for Jack (Jack's deaths in front of the Doctor, and no reaction, didn't try to make Jack's coming back to life more comfortable
Martha showed overt concern, but the Doctor was entirely focussed on the Master.
his lack of faith in Jack, which I think Jack more than earned (trust and faith on the Doctor's part) when Jack literally died for the Doctor.
Agreed.
which I prefer to refer to as The Episode That Never Was
Oh - perfect!
I really don't care if I see the Christmas special this year, or next year's episodes (although I probably will, because I want to see Felicity Kendal in an episode).
There was a time after "The Last of the Time Lords" first aired that I almost decided to stop watching. But I don't like to judge anything in advance, and though my feelings for Ten aren't now what they were, there is enough that I love about the show to go on watching. Including the possibility of a resolution of the rift between the Doctor and Jack - a change of heart on the Doctor's part. My initial reaction was to feel more let down by RTD than by the Doctor: to wail, "I thought you were on our side!" when it seems clear now that RTD was not.
But I can't deny that my attitude to Ten has changed a lot. (I carefully don't say "The Doctor" because this does not affect my view of Nine.)
Who is Felicity Kendall?
Re: reply part 1
Date: 2007-10-20 03:42 pm (UTC)The pattern being the same for Sarah Jane as it was for the Doctor reinforces my belief that she's supposed to be Doctor Mark III (Jack is Mark II), what with her sonic lipstick. Jack immediately inherits the tenth Doctor's lack of compassion and his shoutyness, in TW, thus he's Mark II. I can't imagine Jack in TW reacting the way he did in "Utopia" towards the news of Chantho's dead conglomeration... in TW, I think he'd've had the same reaction as the Doctor, ('I knew it! Didn't I say conglomeration?' as opposed to 'You're supposed to say you're sorry, Doctor'). Sarah Jane and Jack should be themselves, not imitations of the Doctor.
Me too. I was seeing what I expect to see, and what I wanted to see. Aaargh!
Me too. *sigh* Me too. :~( My rant about The Episode That Never Was is still the top entry at my lj, if you want to read it/comment.
Martha showed overt concern, but the Doctor was entirely focussed on the Master.
I was thinking of "Utopia" -- I can fanwank the Doctor's coldness when he sees Jack, dead on the ground (feeling the prejudice), but when Jack does the power boost and the electricity courses through him and he dies? And Martha starts CPR and the Doctor stops her, gets her to stand beside himself instead of with Jack? That really pissed me off. The Master hadn't even been revealed yet, the Doctor has decided he has just the man for Yana's radiation room problem... and doesn't do a damn thing to make Jack's coming back to life any more comfortable. Bastard.
I'm glad you like how I refer to the so-called finale. :)
I actually had decided to stop watching after the finale, but a friend is going to keep watching, to see if it gets any better, and then I saw there'd be an actor or two I wanted to see.
Felicity K. is an English actor who I've seen in a few Britcoms (The Mistress, Solo very famous for The Good Life aka Good Neighbours, and recently was in a mystery show called Rosemary and Thyme.
The other reason I'm going to tune in is to see if Donna resists the Doctor's spell somehow, (doesn't fall in love with him) and smacks his ego down to size, only slightly bigger than himself, instead of the size of the universe. I'd be happy if she gives him lots of smackdowns and he becomes more likeable.
I still like 9, but yes, 10 is approaching incredibly unlikeable, which is a shame. It took me two times through all the Tom Baker episodes, before I finally started liking his Doctor (and he was my first! Cripes, has it really been almost 26 years since I started watching?!? Eep!). I don't see me wanting to rewatch most of DT's episodes, because Ten and Rose annoyed me, and hello? Martha enduring sexism and racism for a month or two (or however long it was) in "Human Nature"/"Family of Blood", getting a job and supporting herself and Ten in "Blink" weren't enough to prove she's a worthy Companion? Pshaw! and Pfffffffttt! Apparently, even dying for the Doctor isn't enough (see Jack).
Re: reply part 1
Date: 2007-10-20 04:35 pm (UTC)I would agree with that.
I can't imagine Jack in TW reacting the way he did in "Utopia" towards the news of Chantho's dead conglomeration...
I can, fairly easily. In TW Jack vacillates between depression and detatchment, and engagement and caring. It would depend which mode he was in. Or which mood.
Sarah Jane and Jack should be themselves, not imitations of the Doctor.
I agree, but I like the way Jack recreates himself and grows by emulating those he admires and loves. He did it with Captain Jack Harkness, stealing his name and identity and the clothing of his time, and then trying to be that kind of hero. (This before he had even met him and loved him.) He makes the Doctor his hero, and then recreates his life - particularly his goals and his morality, or the Doctor's morality as Jack sees it - in the image of the Doctor. Which is great, as long as it's morality I like, which on Jack's part, it has been. I like that.
And I don't want or expect Jack or the Doctor to be perfect. But I also don't want them to act in ways I find annoying, distressing, unlikeable or disgusting. They are, or ought to be, heroes.
I can fanwank the Doctor's coldness when he sees Jack, dead on the ground (feeling the prejudice), but when Jack does the power boost and the electricity courses through him and he dies? And Martha starts CPR and the Doctor stops her, gets her to stand beside himself instead of with Jack? That really pissed me off.
Yes. He seems to be deliberately unkind throughout that whole sequence. I didn't mind the first time I saw it; I was intrigued; wondering why he was so cold and unfeeling towards Jack, and enjoying the edged banter.
So we learn that it was prejudice - okay, I could accept that, and take his attitude as defensiveness: he's being cruel because he is fighting an impulse to be kind, becuase he has mixed and conflicted feelings. I like mixed and conflicted feelings - if they are resolved in a way I like. So I hoped and expected the Doctor would simply remember how he once loved Jack, and see Jack's accomplishments, and with a big hug and a smile rapport would and should be re-established.
Only it didn't happen that way.
And I could forgive it more if he'd shown love/affection for Martha, and I'm one of those fans who thinks he was leading her on and then pushing her away fairly constantly.
Jack seems to be able to forgive the Doctor anything, but I find it a little more difficult.
Thanks for explaining about Felicity Kendall. I haven't seen any of those shows. Will keep an eye open for her in future.
I don't care if the Doctor gets smacked down - I think I'd rather see him simply change for the better out of his own choice. Or show himself capable of some sort of love and caring and unselfish action.
getting a job and supporting herself and Ten in "Blink"
My thought at the time? "I hope he's sleeping her, because she sure doesn't seem to be getting much in return for her devotion!"
Apparently, even dying for the Doctor isn't enough (see Jack).
It doesn't seem to even earn him brownie points. In "The Parting of the Ways" it seemed right that Jack would put his life on the line because the Doctor was doing the same, and they had the same goal - to fight and stop the Daleks. But somehow the balance changed.
Re: reply part 1
Date: 2007-10-20 04:50 pm (UTC)Oh, and Adam - apparently, his mother was really sick, cancer or something, so he was looking for a cure for her (I realized just now I'd forgotten to mention how Adam was screwed over, in his two episodes), so it wasn't just money he wanted. I'll have to listen to the commentary for those episodes, though, and to the non-JB commentary but a Jack episode (and then listen to the other commentaries).
I can, fairly easily. In TW Jack vacillates between depression and detatchment, and engagement and caring. It would depend which mode he was in. Or which mood.
S1, I bet he'd be in detachment and depression mode. *sigh*
Jack seems to be able to forgive the Doctor anything, but I find it a little more difficult.
Ditto. Poor Jack, the Doctor is showing himself not to be worthy of Jack's admiration, respect, love. I'd like to see Jack find someone who is (male or female, but someone I like, too... so not Gwen).
Thanks for explaining about Felicity Kendall. I haven't seen any of those shows. Will keep an eye open for her in future.
You're welcome. She's also written an autobiography.
My thought at the time? "I hope he's sleeping her, because she sure doesn't seem to be getting much in return for her devotion!"
Sounds like Jack, doesn't it? And Rose, too, I suppose.
It doesn't seem to even earn him brownie points. In "The Parting of the Ways" it seemed right that Jack would put his life on the line because the Doctor was doing the same, and they had the same goal - to fight and stop the Daleks. But somehow the balance changed.
Yep. *sigh* And in the beginning of "The Empty Child", I can imagine Jack immediately taking off, he wouldn't risk his life.
Re: reply part 1
From:Re: reply part 1
From:Re: reply part 1
From:Re: reply part 1
From:Re: reply part 1
From:Re: reply part 1
From:Re: reply part 1
From:Re: reply part 1
From:Re: reply part 1
From:The Elephant Man
From:Re: The Elephant Man
From:Re: The Elephant Man
From:Re: The Elephant Man
From:reply part 2
Date: 2007-10-20 02:57 pm (UTC)It might explain the way Jack was somewhat sidelined in some of the Torchwood episodes. I don't mean "Random Shoes" (though I don't quite understand the need for episodes that exclude the lead role). My interpretation in general has been that RTD is burning out somewhat, and doesn't see it - that he's gone from making outrageously sensationalist stories that are also full of subtle characterization, philosophical depth and carefully orchestrated plotlines, to simply producing stories that are outrageously sensationalist. Period. In other words, he's running out of ideas, and the ideas he has aren't shining as brightly as they did.
In any case, Jack was shafted. I thought RTD just wasn't particularly interested in him here - he was so into the story of The Master that the other characters didn't matter.
So why did Adam need and want the information from the future? Was it not just greed?
Damn, I should stop venting about that episode.
I'm glad you said something here. I'm happy to have people to talk to about this, because I share those concerns, even if I'm managed to get to a more philosphical attitude about it, rather than the sense of shock I felt right after seeing "The Last of the Time Lords". Most fans don't seem to have noticed or cared about these concerns, and it's something I feel the need to discuss in order to come to terms with it.
I find all sorts of ways to reinterpret things that make me feel better, but I can't quite find a way that redeems the Doctor.
In other discussions, we were saying that Nine seemed to draw people to him, while Ten thrusts them away.
One of the strong themes I got from series 1 was that however crusty he may be, the Doctor loves Earth and the people of Earth, both individually (sometimes) and collectively. I'm not so sure that's still true, with Ten. Or that it's still demonstrably true.
Re: reply part 2
Date: 2007-10-20 04:11 pm (UTC)Heh, or as a friend refers to it, "Random Shit". Doesn't RTD have minimal involvement with TW, and it's more Julie Gardner's and Chris Chibnall's baby? And considering the latter's 1st series episodes, doesn't that thought just horrify you and make you quake in your figurative boots? I remember reading on TWoP the speculation that RTD had rewritten "They Keep Killing Suzie" (although it's credited to two other people) and the awkwardness of the other glove/Jack and Ianto and the stopwatch certainly reminds me of the awkwardness of Jack saying bye/FoB b.s.
I believe
In any case, Jack was shafted. I thought RTD just wasn't particularly interested in him here - he was so into the story of The Master that the other characters didn't matter.
Yep. Not even the Doctor. *sigh* Where were the crackling scenes between the Doctor and the Master? Another thing that bugged me was how the Master has been willing to do anything to stay alive... so where was the attempt to take over Jack's immortal body? So, so, so, so, so many missed opportunities!
I'm glad you said something here. I'm happy to have people to talk to about this, because I share those concerns, even if I'm managed to get to a more philosphical attitude about it, rather than the sense of shock I felt right after seeing "The Last of the Time Lords". Most fans don't seem to have noticed or cared about these concerns, and it's something I feel the need to discuss in order to come to terms with it.
Thank you. :) I was afraid you wouldn't like further hijacking of the thread. *grin*
I'd be happy to discuss it with you, but I ain't rewatching it! I'm getting the DVD to hear the commentary for that ep, and to see the deleted scenes. I'll rewatch "Utopia" probably, and maybe "The Sound of Drums", at least the scenes with Jack.
I find all sorts of ways to reinterpret things that make me feel better, but I can't quite find a way that redeems the Doctor.
I bet that's because RTD is in charge. I hope DT will be around when someone else is in charge of the show, to see if Ten becomes more likeable, more compassionate. That's another bitter disappointment, I wanted the Doctor to get more compassion (or at least reawaken his compassion) when he dealt with Jack.
One of the strong themes I got from series 1 was that however crusty he may be, the Doctor loves Earth and the people of Earth, both individually (sometimes) and collectively. I'm not so sure that's still true, with Ten. Or that it's still demonstrably true.
I agree. Poor Harriet Jones. :~(
Re: reply part 2
Date: 2007-10-20 05:22 pm (UTC)Heh. I liked the story well enough, but it didn't hold a candle to "Love and Monsters", and suffered for a lack of Jack. Just think how much more I'd have liked it if Jack had been in Gwen's role there.
Doesn't RTD have minimal involvement with TW, and it's more Julie Gardner's and Chris Chibnall's baby?
Quite possibly. Which is okay. I'm not sure how the duties are distributed but I know RTD has said that he's primarily concerned with DW - TW seems to be of much less interest to him.
And considering the latter's 1st series episodes, doesn't that thought just horrify you and make you quake in your figurative boots?
Not entirely. Unlike most fans, I liked the Chris Chibnall episodes - "Cyberwoman" is one of my favourites. My very favourites were by Catherine Tregana, I wish they'd give her the creative control! Okay, "End of Days" was a total mess, but it had brilliant moments.
I'm hoping that the random nature of the writing in TW series 1 reflects a lack of time and resources, rather than lack of talent, and that TW2 will be tighter and more carefully written. Helen Raynor was probably the writer I liked least.
Gotta run, more on this later...
Re: reply part 2
Date: 2007-10-21 12:14 am (UTC)You know, I still haven't watched "Love and Monsters", because of the lack of the Doctor, when I still sort of liked him. *sigh*
Yes, on first viewing, "Random Shoes" was really good, but since I can't stand Gwen, and she's the only one really featured heavily in it... guess which one I haven't really bothered checking out again, except to find the few measly minutes of Jack and rewatched him? If it had featured Jack or Ianto or Tosh, I bet I would have watched it again, just to see someone on the screen instead of Gwen. I'd rather have Jaquetta May write more episodes, instead of Chibnall (bleh!).
Not entirely. Unlike most fans, I liked the Chris Chibnall episodes - "Cyberwoman" is one of my favourites. My very favourites were by Catherine Tregana, I wish they'd give her the creative control! Okay, "End of Days" was a total mess, but it had brilliant moments.
EoD, my fave bit was Jack in the office, and then hearing the sound of the TARDIS, his smile and looking completely different from TW Jack, then disappearing. The others standing there, Gwen certain that Jack's been taken (man, how oblivious can she be? Yo, Gwen, what did Jack just say a few minutes ago? That the right kind of (D)octor would have tempted him? You didn't hear Jack scream or anything? Where's your proof or any kind of evidence that Jack didn't want to leave? Gah!!!!), and pulling away from the Hub, to the Bay, and back further... it certainly did its job and got me all excited for Jack on DW... and, well, you know my feelings on how that went, by the end!
I'm hoping that the random nature of the writing in TW series 1 reflects a lack of time and resources, rather than lack of talent, and that TW2 will be tighter and more carefully written. Helen Raynor was probably the writer I liked least.
Yeah, we'll see how they do with more time to concentrate on it and less goofs. We'll really see with the first episode... the good, James Marsters is in it... for me, the bad is that Chris Chibnall wrote it.
Hope you had to run, to have some fun!
Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2
Date: 2007-10-21 06:51 pm (UTC)What an interesting point. Certainly in that (and in other episodes) one gets the impression that the story was rewritten awkwardly in progress, or not quite ready for production when aired. There are several levels of editing and polish needed for the just the minimum of character consistency and 'making sense', and those levels just isn't there. A lot to ask of a TV show? Not at all. It's what makes all the necessary difference in quality.
I, personally, tuned in for The Captain Jack Harkness spin-off, not "The Gwen Bloody Cooper and Owen Fucking Harper Show, featuring Captain Jack Harkness Show".
You, me, and all the other fans. The people who didn't want to see Captain Jack just didn't watch it at all. Who tuned in to see Owen or Gwen? No one I know. Now, I think they became interesting characters in their own right, and by the end of "End of Days" I cared about them. But that's not the point: the series is and should be about Jack. They are fine as secondary characters. But they are secondary, and putting them in a primary role just makes for an inferior show.
he was so into the story of The Master that the other characters didn't matter.
Yep. Not even the Doctor.
So true. We hardly saw David Tennant. Guess he needed some free time.
Another thing that bugged me was how the Master has been willing to do anything to stay alive... so where was the attempt to take over Jack's immortal body? So, so, so, so, so many missed opportunities!
The story we saw felt like a tangent. "The year that never was": I'd rather have seen "a few days that were".
I was afraid you wouldn't like further hijacking of the thread.
It isn't hijacking, it's growth.
I bet that's because RTD is in charge.
But why should that be? He was in charge with Nine, too, and I adored Nine. I must admit that when there were rumours a few months ago (after "The Last of the Time Lords") that RTD was leaving Doctor Who, my reaction was, "Oh, good." And what a difference from my attitude after my first delirious discovery of the show, where I felt as if he'd made it all happen. So what changed? He lost interest? He lost his sense of heroism or optimism? His priorities changed? I can't figure it.
That's another bitter disappointment, I wanted the Doctor to get more compassion (or at least reawaken his compassion) when he dealt with Jack.
Yes. That's what should have happened.
Poor Harriet Jones
I concur.
Re: reply part 2
Date: 2007-10-22 01:46 am (UTC)Yeah, let's hope we see it change for the better, in the second series. The writing definitely needs to improve.
You, me, and all the other fans. The people who didn't want to see Captain Jack just didn't watch it at all. Who tuned in to see Owen or Gwen? No one I know. Now, I think they became interesting characters in their own right, and by the end of "End of Days" I cared about them. But that's not the point: the series is and should be about Jack. They are fine as secondary characters. But they are secondary, and putting them in a primary role just makes for an inferior show.
Heh, there actually are TW fans, who didn't tune in for Jack, I found'em on imdb.com when I checked out the board there. There are also people who have never seen DW, but they like TW. I wish it would either (a) be about Jack and the rest are secondary, or (b) be a real ensemble show, so they all get about equal air time.
he was so into the story of The Master that the other characters didn't matter.
Yep. Not even the Doctor.
So true. We hardly saw David Tennant. Guess he needed some free time.
Except he was needed to record his lines, so I'm not seeing where he had a lot of free time. Damn, it just sucked, that's all there is to it.
The story we saw felt like a tangent. "The year that never was": I'd rather have seen "a few days that were".
Me too. I won't be at all surprised if TW doesn't even take into account The Year That Never Was, and how it would have changed Jack. And I don't care how irrelevant two missing years might be now, after over a hundred years of immortality, I still want to find out about them!
I was afraid you wouldn't like further hijacking of the thread.
It isn't hijacking, it's growth.
*Whew!* :)
I bet that's because RTD is in charge.
But why should that be? He was in charge with Nine, too, and I adored Nine. I must admit that when there were rumours a few months ago (after "The Last of the Time Lords") that RTD was leaving Doctor Who, my reaction was, "Oh, good." And what a difference from my attitude after my first delirious discovery of the show, where I felt as if he'd made it all happen. So what changed? He lost interest? He lost his sense of heroism or optimism? His priorities changed? I can't figure it.
Could be that RTD is feeling a bit burnt out? Different actors (CE and DT) evoke different responses? For all that CE doesn't want to be linked to DW, doesn't want to discuss it in interviews, etc., John Barrowman saying in interviews he hopes Chris is happier now, etc., CE did a hell of a job of bringing the Doctor back and I would have loved to have seen some more adventures with 9, Rose and Jack, and 9 and Jack worked wonderfully together, no matter how the actors interacted off screen.
That's another bitter disappointment, I wanted the Doctor to get more compassion (or at least reawaken his compassion) when he dealt with Jack.
Yes. That's what should have happened.
Yo, writers, sometimes giving the viewers what they want is the right thing to do!
Poor Harriet Jones
I concur.
Good, glad I'm not the only one.
Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2
From:Re: reply part 2a
From:Re: reply part 2a
From:Re: reply part 2a
From:Re: reply part 2a
From:Re: reply part 2b
From:Re: reply part 2b
From:Re: reply part 2b
From:Re: reply part 2b
From: