![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
fajrdrakoTitle: Companionship
Fandom: Torchwood/Doctor Who
Characters: Jack, Sarah Jane Smith
Challenge: Way back in May I accepted a challenge from![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
neadods to write a 'first kiss' scene between Captain Jack Harkness and Sarah Jane Smith. I did not forget. I was not even slow to start working on it, as I loved the idea. But I wrote one scenario after another and discarded them as inadequate or unconvincing. It proved to be extraordinarily difficult. Here at last is a version I like enough to post.
Rating: G
Disclaimer: Not mine, no claims, all property of the BBC.
Notes: Spoilers for Doctor Who episode "The Last of the Time Lords", with a fleeting reference to "School Reunion". Cross-posted to galactic_conman and dwfiction.
Companionship
From the very beginning, Sarah Jane Smith did not trust Captain Jack Harkness. He'd come sailing out of nowhere, appearing on her doorstep with a smile full of promises and a mouth full of lies.
Clearly he knew some things about the Doctor. He'd met Rose, yes, that she could believe. He'd been on the TARDIS, obviously; his information was too good to have been acquired any other way. Beyond that, she believed nothing. There were too many things he didn't say, or couldn't, or wouldn't. He'd met the Doctor - that didn't necessarily make him any kind of a friend of the Doctor, least of all a friend of hers.
She did some research on him, and came up with an inescapable fact: there were no records of any American named Captain Jack Harkness being in the UK since 1941. He was false as a Titanian brisket, this Captain, and she intended to keep her eye on him.
His organization, Torchwood, was even worse. It seemed everyone with any actual power knew about Torchwood, but no one knew the important details. The whole institution looked like a powder keg. She had a good talk with UNIT; they were suspicious of Torchwood, too. "Weaponry no one should have," they said, and "too much power, too little accountability". It seems Queen Victoria set up Torchwood under suspicious circumstances, to guard the world against alien threats in general and the Doctor in particular.
This was an expose waiting to be written, even if it was another article that should never see the light of day. Since Torchwood under Harkness seemed to pose no immediate threat, and the rest had disappeared with the Battle of Canary Wharf, she let it go for the sake of more immediate matters. When Captain Jack again turned up on her doorstep, she told him to go away and not come back.
One day, more than a year after the Battle of Canary Wharf, he broke the silence. She received a telephone call from Captain Jack Harkness.
"I've seen him," he said, without preamble. "I have news. Do you want to hear?"
There was only one person he could be talking about. She shouldn't listen. It might be a lie. But she'd had no word for so very long, not since the Krillitanes had invaded that school. She said, "Very well. Come to my place."
"On my way," he said, and disconnected. It was probably literally true: he no doubt rang her from his car. She put the kettle on for tea, and tried not to pace in anticipation. Luke was off somewhere with Maria, and she was glad - she wasn't sure how to explain Captain Jack to Luke. She wouldn't lie about him, of course, she didn't lie to Luke. But she didn't much want to talk about the mysterious Captain, either.
When Jack tapped on her door twenty minutes later, Sarah Jane had already finished half of her own cup of tea. His smile was as she remembered. She ignored it. "Come in," she said. "Care for some tea?" She hoped she managed to sound sufficiently casual. Friendly but not gullible. Businesslike.
"I'd rather a glass of water," he said, and she got it for him. They sat in her living room, with Jack in the large, comfortable chair, while she sat on the sofa. He said, "The TARDIS came to Cardiff to refuel. I hitched a ride. On the outside."
As he continued, she saw how absurd it was, like all his stories. A severed hand, as some sort of Doctor alert? Riding the time vortex hanging onto the outside the of TARDIS - what was he, Spider-Man? Going to the end of time? Searching for Utopia? Well, that all sounded like the Doctor, right enough, he was always into wild extremes, and seemed to be more so inclined as time went on. Not that time ever just 'went on' for the Doctor.
Captain Jack's story got more and more outrageous. Meeting another Time Lord at the end of time, one who'd lost his memory, who turned out to be a friend of the Doctor, but insane and power-hungry. Harold Saxon and Archangel. Toclafanes and warfare. A year that never was, of imprisonment, enslavement and resistance. Martha Jones, saviour of mankind. Deceptions, tricks of the mind, and psychic magic.
Sarah Jane listened to him without interruption. "Quite a story," she said, mildly, when he stopped.
"Yes."
"If I didn't know him, I wouldn't believe any of it."
"But you know him."
"I was looking into the disappearance of Harold Saxon."
"Oh?"
"And the way he popped up a couple of years ago. He was almost as mysterious as you."
Jack smiled at that. "No one is as mysterious as me."
"...But your ego is bigger."
"Not just my ego," he murmured, but she pretended not to have heard him.
She tried to picture the scene he described. The gunshot, the woman in red. The Doctor in tears. "He loved him?"
"The Master was the only other living Time Lord. The Doctor wanted to save him. It was his last chance... He couldn't save the others, back in the Time War. He thought he could maybe save this one. Just this one."
"Chivalrous nonsense," she snapped, and found herself on the verge of tears herself.
"Not nonsense. It's what he is. It's why we love him."
She looked at him quizzically. "We?"
"You. Me. Rose. Martha, too. How could we not?"
Jack was a con man, an actor. She knew that. But looking at him now, she believed that he knew the Doctor, believed that he loved him, that the Doctor had touched him in the same way he had her, and triggered a soul-deep change. Some people, after meeting the Doctor, would never be the same again.
Jack reached over and took her hand, squeezing it.
"How could we not?" she echoed. "I wish... How he must be hurting. I wish we could help."
"He'll find us if he needs us," said Jack. He kissed her hand, comforting her. Then he kissed it again.
She looked at him suspiciously, though didn't pull her hand away. "Jack Harkness. Are you coming on to me?"
He did not let go of her hand, which he had lifted to his lips. She could feel his warm breath against her knuckles as he held it there. Without moving his lips away from her skin, he lifted an eyebrow and said quizzically, as if it were another question rather than an answer, "Yes?"
She pulled her hand away quickly, and tried not to wish she hadn't. "Idiot man. I'm too old for flirtation."
He laughed - not at her, but in a warm sort of way that made even the air around him feel good. "Sarah Jane Smith, how old are you? Fifty at most? I have a century on you, and I'm not too old for flirtation. We both know someone pushing a thousand. Doesn't he make you feel young?"
"I miss him," she said bluntly. She felt like crying again. She was the idiot, a weepy old fool. She was usually more careful than this. But Jack's news about the Doctor had unsettled her, and Jack himself.... She realized how badly she had misjudged him before, and was furious with herself for it. He had needed her friendship, and she had coldly withheld it. Had she turned into such a suspicious old curmudgeon that she didn't know a friend when she met one?
"I miss him, too," said Jack gently. "Every day. Always. But it makes life worth living, you know? He's out there, doing his thing. And one day he'll return." He stood. So did she. He pulled her into his arms as if it was the most natural thing in the world, and Sarah Jane let herself accept it. He was a link to the Doctor. A link to her past and the planet's future, even if he and she hadn't shared that time together. A link to a world out there of planets and aliens and adventures and dangers and doing things that must be done.
He had a very comforting hug.
She said, "What's this about you being more than a hundred years old?"
"A hundred and fifty. But looking good, don't you think?"
"Are you human?"
"Completely."
"Then how...?"
He kissed her, lightly, on the lips. "It's a long story. It involves the fifty-first century, and the Time Agency... or maybe the year 200,100 and a Game Station... or maybe a girl hanging from a barrage balloon in the Blitz. Tell you what. Let's order Chinese and I'll tell you the story of Captain Jack Harkness and how he became immortal."
"Immortal?"
"And hungry! Have a heart. I drove all the way from Cardiff and I haven't had any lunch."
"There's a really good Chinese place just around the corner. I'll call them - Luke loves it."
"Luke?"
"I can tell you a story or two as well, Captain. Did you know I'm a mother now?"
He sat, laughing. "You're full of surprises."
"It comes with the territory. Egg rolls, do you think?"
"Definitely egg rolls," agreed Jack.
- end -
Fandom: Torchwood/Doctor Who
Characters: Jack, Sarah Jane Smith
Challenge: Way back in May I accepted a challenge from
neadods to write a 'first kiss' scene between Captain Jack Harkness and Sarah Jane Smith. I did not forget. I was not even slow to start working on it, as I loved the idea. But I wrote one scenario after another and discarded them as inadequate or unconvincing. It proved to be extraordinarily difficult. Here at last is a version I like enough to post. Rating: G
Disclaimer: Not mine, no claims, all property of the BBC.
Notes: Spoilers for Doctor Who episode "The Last of the Time Lords", with a fleeting reference to "School Reunion". Cross-posted to galactic_conman and dwfiction.
Companionship
From the very beginning, Sarah Jane Smith did not trust Captain Jack Harkness. He'd come sailing out of nowhere, appearing on her doorstep with a smile full of promises and a mouth full of lies.
Clearly he knew some things about the Doctor. He'd met Rose, yes, that she could believe. He'd been on the TARDIS, obviously; his information was too good to have been acquired any other way. Beyond that, she believed nothing. There were too many things he didn't say, or couldn't, or wouldn't. He'd met the Doctor - that didn't necessarily make him any kind of a friend of the Doctor, least of all a friend of hers.
She did some research on him, and came up with an inescapable fact: there were no records of any American named Captain Jack Harkness being in the UK since 1941. He was false as a Titanian brisket, this Captain, and she intended to keep her eye on him.
His organization, Torchwood, was even worse. It seemed everyone with any actual power knew about Torchwood, but no one knew the important details. The whole institution looked like a powder keg. She had a good talk with UNIT; they were suspicious of Torchwood, too. "Weaponry no one should have," they said, and "too much power, too little accountability". It seems Queen Victoria set up Torchwood under suspicious circumstances, to guard the world against alien threats in general and the Doctor in particular.
This was an expose waiting to be written, even if it was another article that should never see the light of day. Since Torchwood under Harkness seemed to pose no immediate threat, and the rest had disappeared with the Battle of Canary Wharf, she let it go for the sake of more immediate matters. When Captain Jack again turned up on her doorstep, she told him to go away and not come back.
One day, more than a year after the Battle of Canary Wharf, he broke the silence. She received a telephone call from Captain Jack Harkness.
"I've seen him," he said, without preamble. "I have news. Do you want to hear?"
There was only one person he could be talking about. She shouldn't listen. It might be a lie. But she'd had no word for so very long, not since the Krillitanes had invaded that school. She said, "Very well. Come to my place."
"On my way," he said, and disconnected. It was probably literally true: he no doubt rang her from his car. She put the kettle on for tea, and tried not to pace in anticipation. Luke was off somewhere with Maria, and she was glad - she wasn't sure how to explain Captain Jack to Luke. She wouldn't lie about him, of course, she didn't lie to Luke. But she didn't much want to talk about the mysterious Captain, either.
When Jack tapped on her door twenty minutes later, Sarah Jane had already finished half of her own cup of tea. His smile was as she remembered. She ignored it. "Come in," she said. "Care for some tea?" She hoped she managed to sound sufficiently casual. Friendly but not gullible. Businesslike.
"I'd rather a glass of water," he said, and she got it for him. They sat in her living room, with Jack in the large, comfortable chair, while she sat on the sofa. He said, "The TARDIS came to Cardiff to refuel. I hitched a ride. On the outside."
As he continued, she saw how absurd it was, like all his stories. A severed hand, as some sort of Doctor alert? Riding the time vortex hanging onto the outside the of TARDIS - what was he, Spider-Man? Going to the end of time? Searching for Utopia? Well, that all sounded like the Doctor, right enough, he was always into wild extremes, and seemed to be more so inclined as time went on. Not that time ever just 'went on' for the Doctor.
Captain Jack's story got more and more outrageous. Meeting another Time Lord at the end of time, one who'd lost his memory, who turned out to be a friend of the Doctor, but insane and power-hungry. Harold Saxon and Archangel. Toclafanes and warfare. A year that never was, of imprisonment, enslavement and resistance. Martha Jones, saviour of mankind. Deceptions, tricks of the mind, and psychic magic.
Sarah Jane listened to him without interruption. "Quite a story," she said, mildly, when he stopped.
"Yes."
"If I didn't know him, I wouldn't believe any of it."
"But you know him."
"I was looking into the disappearance of Harold Saxon."
"Oh?"
"And the way he popped up a couple of years ago. He was almost as mysterious as you."
Jack smiled at that. "No one is as mysterious as me."
"...But your ego is bigger."
"Not just my ego," he murmured, but she pretended not to have heard him.
She tried to picture the scene he described. The gunshot, the woman in red. The Doctor in tears. "He loved him?"
"The Master was the only other living Time Lord. The Doctor wanted to save him. It was his last chance... He couldn't save the others, back in the Time War. He thought he could maybe save this one. Just this one."
"Chivalrous nonsense," she snapped, and found herself on the verge of tears herself.
"Not nonsense. It's what he is. It's why we love him."
She looked at him quizzically. "We?"
"You. Me. Rose. Martha, too. How could we not?"
Jack was a con man, an actor. She knew that. But looking at him now, she believed that he knew the Doctor, believed that he loved him, that the Doctor had touched him in the same way he had her, and triggered a soul-deep change. Some people, after meeting the Doctor, would never be the same again.
Jack reached over and took her hand, squeezing it.
"How could we not?" she echoed. "I wish... How he must be hurting. I wish we could help."
"He'll find us if he needs us," said Jack. He kissed her hand, comforting her. Then he kissed it again.
She looked at him suspiciously, though didn't pull her hand away. "Jack Harkness. Are you coming on to me?"
He did not let go of her hand, which he had lifted to his lips. She could feel his warm breath against her knuckles as he held it there. Without moving his lips away from her skin, he lifted an eyebrow and said quizzically, as if it were another question rather than an answer, "Yes?"
She pulled her hand away quickly, and tried not to wish she hadn't. "Idiot man. I'm too old for flirtation."
He laughed - not at her, but in a warm sort of way that made even the air around him feel good. "Sarah Jane Smith, how old are you? Fifty at most? I have a century on you, and I'm not too old for flirtation. We both know someone pushing a thousand. Doesn't he make you feel young?"
"I miss him," she said bluntly. She felt like crying again. She was the idiot, a weepy old fool. She was usually more careful than this. But Jack's news about the Doctor had unsettled her, and Jack himself.... She realized how badly she had misjudged him before, and was furious with herself for it. He had needed her friendship, and she had coldly withheld it. Had she turned into such a suspicious old curmudgeon that she didn't know a friend when she met one?
"I miss him, too," said Jack gently. "Every day. Always. But it makes life worth living, you know? He's out there, doing his thing. And one day he'll return." He stood. So did she. He pulled her into his arms as if it was the most natural thing in the world, and Sarah Jane let herself accept it. He was a link to the Doctor. A link to her past and the planet's future, even if he and she hadn't shared that time together. A link to a world out there of planets and aliens and adventures and dangers and doing things that must be done.
He had a very comforting hug.
She said, "What's this about you being more than a hundred years old?"
"A hundred and fifty. But looking good, don't you think?"
"Are you human?"
"Completely."
"Then how...?"
He kissed her, lightly, on the lips. "It's a long story. It involves the fifty-first century, and the Time Agency... or maybe the year 200,100 and a Game Station... or maybe a girl hanging from a barrage balloon in the Blitz. Tell you what. Let's order Chinese and I'll tell you the story of Captain Jack Harkness and how he became immortal."
"Immortal?"
"And hungry! Have a heart. I drove all the way from Cardiff and I haven't had any lunch."
"There's a really good Chinese place just around the corner. I'll call them - Luke loves it."
"Luke?"
"I can tell you a story or two as well, Captain. Did you know I'm a mother now?"
He sat, laughing. "You're full of surprises."
"It comes with the territory. Egg rolls, do you think?"
"Definitely egg rolls," agreed Jack.
- end -
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Re: reply part 1
Date: 2007-10-20 03:42 pm (UTC)The pattern being the same for Sarah Jane as it was for the Doctor reinforces my belief that she's supposed to be Doctor Mark III (Jack is Mark II), what with her sonic lipstick. Jack immediately inherits the tenth Doctor's lack of compassion and his shoutyness, in TW, thus he's Mark II. I can't imagine Jack in TW reacting the way he did in "Utopia" towards the news of Chantho's dead conglomeration... in TW, I think he'd've had the same reaction as the Doctor, ('I knew it! Didn't I say conglomeration?' as opposed to 'You're supposed to say you're sorry, Doctor'). Sarah Jane and Jack should be themselves, not imitations of the Doctor.
Me too. I was seeing what I expect to see, and what I wanted to see. Aaargh!
Me too. *sigh* Me too. :~( My rant about The Episode That Never Was is still the top entry at my lj, if you want to read it/comment.
Martha showed overt concern, but the Doctor was entirely focussed on the Master.
I was thinking of "Utopia" -- I can fanwank the Doctor's coldness when he sees Jack, dead on the ground (feeling the prejudice), but when Jack does the power boost and the electricity courses through him and he dies? And Martha starts CPR and the Doctor stops her, gets her to stand beside himself instead of with Jack? That really pissed me off. The Master hadn't even been revealed yet, the Doctor has decided he has just the man for Yana's radiation room problem... and doesn't do a damn thing to make Jack's coming back to life any more comfortable. Bastard.
I'm glad you like how I refer to the so-called finale. :)
I actually had decided to stop watching after the finale, but a friend is going to keep watching, to see if it gets any better, and then I saw there'd be an actor or two I wanted to see.
Felicity K. is an English actor who I've seen in a few Britcoms (The Mistress, Solo very famous for The Good Life aka Good Neighbours, and recently was in a mystery show called Rosemary and Thyme.
The other reason I'm going to tune in is to see if Donna resists the Doctor's spell somehow, (doesn't fall in love with him) and smacks his ego down to size, only slightly bigger than himself, instead of the size of the universe. I'd be happy if she gives him lots of smackdowns and he becomes more likeable.
I still like 9, but yes, 10 is approaching incredibly unlikeable, which is a shame. It took me two times through all the Tom Baker episodes, before I finally started liking his Doctor (and he was my first! Cripes, has it really been almost 26 years since I started watching?!? Eep!). I don't see me wanting to rewatch most of DT's episodes, because Ten and Rose annoyed me, and hello? Martha enduring sexism and racism for a month or two (or however long it was) in "Human Nature"/"Family of Blood", getting a job and supporting herself and Ten in "Blink" weren't enough to prove she's a worthy Companion? Pshaw! and Pfffffffttt! Apparently, even dying for the Doctor isn't enough (see Jack).
Re: reply part 1
Date: 2007-10-20 04:35 pm (UTC)I would agree with that.
I can't imagine Jack in TW reacting the way he did in "Utopia" towards the news of Chantho's dead conglomeration...
I can, fairly easily. In TW Jack vacillates between depression and detatchment, and engagement and caring. It would depend which mode he was in. Or which mood.
Sarah Jane and Jack should be themselves, not imitations of the Doctor.
I agree, but I like the way Jack recreates himself and grows by emulating those he admires and loves. He did it with Captain Jack Harkness, stealing his name and identity and the clothing of his time, and then trying to be that kind of hero. (This before he had even met him and loved him.) He makes the Doctor his hero, and then recreates his life - particularly his goals and his morality, or the Doctor's morality as Jack sees it - in the image of the Doctor. Which is great, as long as it's morality I like, which on Jack's part, it has been. I like that.
And I don't want or expect Jack or the Doctor to be perfect. But I also don't want them to act in ways I find annoying, distressing, unlikeable or disgusting. They are, or ought to be, heroes.
I can fanwank the Doctor's coldness when he sees Jack, dead on the ground (feeling the prejudice), but when Jack does the power boost and the electricity courses through him and he dies? And Martha starts CPR and the Doctor stops her, gets her to stand beside himself instead of with Jack? That really pissed me off.
Yes. He seems to be deliberately unkind throughout that whole sequence. I didn't mind the first time I saw it; I was intrigued; wondering why he was so cold and unfeeling towards Jack, and enjoying the edged banter.
So we learn that it was prejudice - okay, I could accept that, and take his attitude as defensiveness: he's being cruel because he is fighting an impulse to be kind, becuase he has mixed and conflicted feelings. I like mixed and conflicted feelings - if they are resolved in a way I like. So I hoped and expected the Doctor would simply remember how he once loved Jack, and see Jack's accomplishments, and with a big hug and a smile rapport would and should be re-established.
Only it didn't happen that way.
And I could forgive it more if he'd shown love/affection for Martha, and I'm one of those fans who thinks he was leading her on and then pushing her away fairly constantly.
Jack seems to be able to forgive the Doctor anything, but I find it a little more difficult.
Thanks for explaining about Felicity Kendall. I haven't seen any of those shows. Will keep an eye open for her in future.
I don't care if the Doctor gets smacked down - I think I'd rather see him simply change for the better out of his own choice. Or show himself capable of some sort of love and caring and unselfish action.
getting a job and supporting herself and Ten in "Blink"
My thought at the time? "I hope he's sleeping her, because she sure doesn't seem to be getting much in return for her devotion!"
Apparently, even dying for the Doctor isn't enough (see Jack).
It doesn't seem to even earn him brownie points. In "The Parting of the Ways" it seemed right that Jack would put his life on the line because the Doctor was doing the same, and they had the same goal - to fight and stop the Daleks. But somehow the balance changed.
Re: reply part 1
Date: 2007-10-20 04:50 pm (UTC)Oh, and Adam - apparently, his mother was really sick, cancer or something, so he was looking for a cure for her (I realized just now I'd forgotten to mention how Adam was screwed over, in his two episodes), so it wasn't just money he wanted. I'll have to listen to the commentary for those episodes, though, and to the non-JB commentary but a Jack episode (and then listen to the other commentaries).
I can, fairly easily. In TW Jack vacillates between depression and detatchment, and engagement and caring. It would depend which mode he was in. Or which mood.
S1, I bet he'd be in detachment and depression mode. *sigh*
Jack seems to be able to forgive the Doctor anything, but I find it a little more difficult.
Ditto. Poor Jack, the Doctor is showing himself not to be worthy of Jack's admiration, respect, love. I'd like to see Jack find someone who is (male or female, but someone I like, too... so not Gwen).
Thanks for explaining about Felicity Kendall. I haven't seen any of those shows. Will keep an eye open for her in future.
You're welcome. She's also written an autobiography.
My thought at the time? "I hope he's sleeping her, because she sure doesn't seem to be getting much in return for her devotion!"
Sounds like Jack, doesn't it? And Rose, too, I suppose.
It doesn't seem to even earn him brownie points. In "The Parting of the Ways" it seemed right that Jack would put his life on the line because the Doctor was doing the same, and they had the same goal - to fight and stop the Daleks. But somehow the balance changed.
Yep. *sigh* And in the beginning of "The Empty Child", I can imagine Jack immediately taking off, he wouldn't risk his life.
Re: reply part 1
Date: 2007-10-20 05:12 pm (UTC)It doesn't look odd to me because of course he is my favourite DW character ever, but I only have three series of DW and TW behind me. I don't think my partiality will change by watching the rest, though: the reasons I love Jack so much are specific to him (and me) so while I am sure there are lots of great characters in the series as a whole, Jack will always be remarkable. For many reasons.
Major kudos to John Barrowman
Well, yes. His talents are amazing. It's almost too bad he's so good looking - it's easy to see Jack as superficial because of it, but he isn't. Barrowman makes him incredibly convincing.
his mother was really sick, cancer or something, so he was looking for a cure for her ... so it wasn't just money he wanted.
Really? my goodness, did they mess with that! He ended up looking like a real scumbucket, hanging out with the Doctor for profit motives alone.
Poor Jack, the Doctor is showing himself not to be worthy of Jack's admiration, respect, love.
Yes, and I really don't want to see that. I want the Doctor to be all that Jack thinks he is. I'd rather that the Doctor be redeemed, than for Jack to find someone else. Which I guess just goes to show that I still love the idea of the pairing even if I want to smack the Doctor for the way he has treated Jack. I want the Doctor to be the Doctor I want him to be. We still get glimpses of it, but the bottom line... after "The Last of the Time Lords"... isn't it.
in the beginning of "The Empty Child", I can imagine Jack immediately taking off, he wouldn't risk his life.
Very true.
Re: reply part 1
Date: 2007-10-20 10:15 pm (UTC)It doesn't look odd to me because of course he is my favourite DW character ever, but I only have three series of DW and TW behind me. I don't think my partiality will change by watching the rest, though: the reasons I love Jack so much are specific to him (and me) so while I am sure there are lots of great characters in the series as a whole, Jack will always be remarkable. For many reasons.
Heh, with so many years of it behind me, no wonder I expected Mickey to be killed off and never seen again in "Rose", and yes, I didn't expect Rose to see her family, home, friends often if at all, but quickly learned differently. Yes, I agree, even if you go back and watch as many as you can, I think Jack'll remain your favourite, simply because there is a lot more emotional depth to the characters in the new version. Jack's certainly the first ever openly sexual (and omnisexual) character on DW.
So, go ahead, list your reasons (or do a post if you prefer) for finding Jack remarkable, I'd like to read it.
Well, yes. His talents are amazing. It's almost too bad he's so good looking - it's easy to see Jack as superficial because of it, but he isn't. Barrowman makes him incredibly convincing.
For me, in DW, yes, for TW, not always, but I think he's terrific in one on one scenes like with John in "Out Of Time" and 1941!Jack in "Captain Jack Harkness". I also thought he was convincing in "Combat" (well, not so much on the cell phone, since Torchwood Three has been seen to be pretty incompetent, but that's down to the lack of credence established in earlier episodes, not a shortcoming of John Barrowman's acting).
Really? my goodness, did they mess with that! He ended up looking like a real scumbucket, hanging out with the Doctor for profit motives alone.
Yeah, I'll really have to listen to the commentary for "Dalek" and "The Long Game" to confirm it with my own ears, and I have Doctor Who Confidential episodes to catch up on. I'm pretty sure one or the other or both will confirm that Adam wasn't just total scum.
I'd like to see Jack come across Adam and have to deal with him. Ooooo... there's another fic idea for you! *grin* *passes plot bunny quickly to
Yes, and I really don't want to see that. I want the Doctor to be all that Jack thinks he is. I'd rather that the Doctor be redeemed, than for Jack to find someone else. Which I guess just goes to show that I still love the idea of the pairing even if I want to smack the Doctor for the way he has treated Jack. I want the Doctor to be the Doctor I want him to be. We still get glimpses of it, but the bottom line... after "The Last of the Time Lords"... isn't it.
I want the Doctor to be redeemed too, be it of his own accord, or some smackdowns make him start thinking and changing, either way is fine with me. Maybe it'll happen when he becomes Eleven? Twelve? But I don't want to have to wait that long.
Re: reply part 1
Date: 2007-10-21 05:22 pm (UTC)Of course!
Saw a matinée performance of The Elephant Man, starring Brent Carver, Geraint Wyn Davies and Kate Trotter.
Was it as good as it sounds? Mind you, I've never been a Geraint Wyn Davies fan, but I've never seen him on stage, either. Where was that? Which city?
I expected Mickey to be killed off and never seen again in "Rose"
I'm glad he wasn't. A more interesting story arc of character development I have seldom seen.
list your reasons (or do a post if you prefer) for finding Jack remarkable, I'd like to read it
Okay, I'll make a post of it. Most of it's kind of obvious. Or maybe not.
that's down to the lack of credence established in earlier episodes
Torchwood's greatest failing - the general level of incompetence,unprofesionalism and dishonesty of all the characters except Jack. And sometimes Jack too, mostly because he doesn't pay attention. You come to expect them to be screw-ups, and they comply. It isn't very alluring.
I'd like to see Jack come across Adam and have to deal with him. Ooooo... there's another fic idea for you!
If I do it... and I might.. I don't think it would be a G-rated story. I quite like the actor, whom I knew (though not by name) from Coronation Street.
I have a whole slew of undeveloped stories in my head in which Jack meets characters we encountered in various episodes of Doctor Who when he was not actually present.
Maybe it'll happen when he becomes Eleven?
I'd like to think so. Ten we can just decide that Ten was unusually messed up psychologically, and carry on. But I'd really like to see it resolved with Ten, because I love the idea that Ten should care as much about Jack as Nine did. However awkwardly it may be expressed.
Re: reply part 1
Date: 2007-10-21 11:39 pm (UTC)Was it as good as it sounds? Mind you, I've never been a Geraint Wyn Davies fan, but I've never seen him on stage, either. Where was that? Which city?
You heathen!!!!!!! *gasp* And you call yourself Canadian?!?!? You never watched/liked him in Forever Knight?
I thought it was really good, and that GWD and Brent Carver (especially Brent Carver) were particularly awesome. It's playing in Toronto until November 3rd, the last performance is at 8:00 p.m. that evening. The theatre is just a few minutes east of Union Station.
I'm glad he wasn't. A more interesting story arc of character development I have seldom seen.
In the end, I'm glad he wasn't, either, but in the first episode, I could have lived with it, if he had been killed off.
list your reasons (or do a post if you prefer) for finding Jack remarkable, I'd like to read it
Okay, I'll make a post of it. Most of it's kind of obvious. Or maybe not.
Yay! *checks the lj* *pouts* Where is it? *pout* *pout* *pout*
*grin* Yes, I'll give you some time, I was just teasing.
And Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo... what a beautiful header with Jack at the top! *thud*
Torchwood's greatest failing - the general level of incompetence,unprofesionalism and dishonesty of all the characters except Jack. And sometimes Jack too, mostly because he doesn't pay attention. You come to expect them to be screw-ups, and they comply. It isn't very alluring.
Yeah, I agree. I would have liked to see them do some good, too, so that the outcome isn't a certainty, either way (ie., of course they'll do bad, or of course they'll do good). Let's see Jack engaging with the people around him, connecting.
I'd like to see Jack come across Adam and have to deal with him. Ooooo... there's another fic idea for you!
If I do it... and I might.. I don't think it would be a G-rated story. I quite like the actor, whom I knew (though not by name) from Coronation Street.
Okay, I'll consider myself warned.
I have a whole slew of undeveloped stories in my head in which Jack meets characters we encountered in various episodes of Doctor Who when he was not actually present.
I'd love to read them! Hurry up and write them! *grin*
I'd like to think so. Ten we can just decide that Ten was unusually messed up psychologically, and carry on. But I'd really like to see it resolved with Ten, because I love the idea that Ten should care as much about Jack as Nine did. However awkwardly it may be expressed.
We'll have to see if Jack shows up on DW again, while DT is on it. I still wish my hope had come true, that Jack would kiss the Doctor, then punch the Doctor for leaving him on the Game Station.
Re: reply part 1
Date: 2007-10-22 01:03 am (UTC)A few times. Well, once, anyway - the episode with Joan of Arc. But I didn't watch it regularly because I didn't like him.
And you call yourself Canadian?
...My passport says so. Is he Canadian?
It's playing in Toronto until November 3rd,
Eeeee! That leaves me next weekend.... I've been to Toronto and back in a weekend before, often enough. But it takes money. (Pondering.)
in the first episode, I could have lived with it, if he had been killed off.
I wouldn't have minded. He became interesting, but not sympathetic. I loved Jack's forgiveness of him. I would also live with seeing someone else in his place.
*checks the lj* *pouts* Where is it? *pout*
Hee. Maybe I should keep you waiting. The joys of anticip...ation.
what a beautiful header with Jack at the top! *thud*
I'm rather fond of it myself.
Let's see Jack engaging with the people around him, connecting.
The moments of "connection" were his best. With Gwen, occasionally. With Tosh at the end of "Greeks Bearing Gifts". In "End of Days" with Owen, first in the scene when he fired him, then when he hugged him at the end. With Ianto... mostly in "Cyberwoman", not enough otherwise. (They were teasing us.) With the other Captain Jack Harkness, of course, but that was only one episode, and he died.
I'd love to read them! Hurry up and write them! *grin*
I'm glad! Thanks for the encouragement.
I still wish my hope had come true, that Jack would kiss the Doctor, then punch the Doctor for leaving him on the Game Station.
That would have been very satisfying, under the circumstances. But the relationship I like/want has Jack both respecting and loving the Doctor - and the Doctor being worthy of his love.
Re: reply part 1
Date: 2007-10-22 02:30 am (UTC)A few times. Well, once, anyway - the episode with Joan of Arc. But I didn't watch it regularly because I didn't like him.
You silly, silly, silly person! *grin* I read a bit with him in "The Toronto Star" (early 1992, before FK started airing on some CBS stations) and since I already knew who he was, and liked him as an actor, I tuned in and got really hooked. I also really like the cast, so I'm sure that helped.
And you call yourself Canadian?
...My passport says so. Is he Canadian?
*peers over
It's playing in Toronto until November 3rd,
Eeeee! That leaves me next weekend.... I've been to Toronto and back in a weekend before, often enough. But it takes money. (Pondering.)
*cajole* *cajole* *cajole* Balcony seat is only $20...
I wouldn't have minded. He became interesting, but not sympathetic. I loved Jack's forgiveness of him. I would also live with seeing someone else in his place.
Jack forgave Mickey? For what? Must have been "Boom Town" but I'm completely blanking, please remind me.
*checks the lj* *pouts* Where is it? *pout*
Hee. Maybe I should keep you waiting. The joys of anticip...ation.
You Rocky Horror Picture Showwhat a beautiful header with Jack at the top! *thud*
I'm rather fond of it myself.
I can see why! *steals it!!!!!!!!!!*
Let's see Jack engaging with the people around him, connecting.
The moments of "connection" were his best. With Gwen, occasionally. With Tosh at the end of "Greeks Bearing Gifts". In "End of Days" with Owen, first in the scene when he fired him, then when he hugged him at the end. With Ianto... mostly in "Cyberwoman", not enough otherwise. (They were teasing us.) With the other Captain Jack Harkness, of course, but that was only one episode, and he died.
I'm still disappointed he didn't kiss Tosh's cheek, when he was sitting with her at the end. I also liked Jack with John in "Out Of Time" and felt so, so, so damned bad for Jack.
I'd love to read them! Hurry up and write them! *grin*
I'm glad! Thanks for the encouragement.
You're welcome. :) Now, how many have you written so far, 20? 30? *grin*
I still wish my hope had come true, that Jack would kiss the Doctor, then punch the Doctor for leaving him on the Game Station.
That would have been very satisfying, under the circumstances. But the relationship I like/want has Jack both respecting and loving the Doctor - and the Doctor being worthy of his love.
Yeah, well, the kiss and the punch would have been seconds into Jack being shown in "Utopia" (in my daydreams) and then by the end of the season, yeah, the Doctor being worthy of everything Jack feels for him.
Damn you, RTD!
Re: reply part 1
Date: 2007-10-22 03:34 am (UTC)And bus fare $120 at least... (fights temptation).
Jack forgave Mickey? For what?
I meant, he forgave Owen.
I'm still disappointed he didn't kiss Tosh's cheek, when he was sitting with her at the end.
I would have liked that. I'd like more interaction between Jack and Tosh in general. I'd like her to be more active, less introverted.
Damn you, RTD!
And bring back the Doctor we knew and loved!
Re: reply part 1
Date: 2007-10-22 07:44 am (UTC)And bus fare $120 at least... (fights temptation).
And Pizza Pizza is close by, two slices of pizza for $5. *cajole* If you manage to make it, would it be the matinée or evening performance?
Jack forgave Mickey? For what?
I meant, he forgave Owen.
Good, glad I didn't miss something! I thought you must have been talking about Owen.
I'm still disappointed he didn't kiss Tosh's cheek, when he was sitting with her at the end.
I would have liked that. I'd like more interaction between Jack and Tosh in general. I'd like her to be more active, less introverted.
Hopefully, we'll get to see that in the new episodes!
Damn you, RTD!
And bring back the Doctor we knew and loved!
And make Jack important to Doctor Who again, don't bring him back just to sideline him!
Re: reply part 1
Date: 2007-10-22 11:25 am (UTC)A Saturday matinee might work, if there is still a 6 a.m. bus. Otherwise it would have to be Sat. evening.
Hopefully, we'll get to see that in the new episodes!
I love Tosh when she gets angry, and takes action. This was one of the things I most loved about "Countrycide".
And make Jack important to Doctor Who again, don't bring him back just to sideline him!
That's the thing!
The Elephant Man
Date: 2007-10-23 11:18 pm (UTC)A Saturday matinée might work, if there is still a 6 a.m. bus. Otherwise it would have to be Sat. evening.
Did you find out yet? *hopeful look* And if you do come, where do you want to meet (assuming you do want to meet)? I think you'd be dropped off at the Bay Street Bus Terminal, which would be walking distance of the theatre.
Hopefully, we'll get to see that in the new episodes!
I love Tosh when she gets angry, and takes action. This was one of the things I most loved about "Countrycide".
I liked when she didn't hesitate to slice open her palm to use her blood, to rewrite the mathematical equation, in CJH (even if pencil wouldn't have faded as much as she thought it would).
And make Jack important to Doctor Who again, don't bring him back just to sideline him!
That's the thing!
Which is why I'm still pissed off with RTD, even after what he said to that woman in the article you linked. Actions (Jack being sidelined) speak louder than words.
Re: The Elephant Man
Date: 2007-10-24 03:33 am (UTC)I would love to go to Toronto and meet you and see the play, but I just can't afford the money or the time - and have two commitments already on Saturday afternoon. And I'd meant to keep the weekend free for getting ready for NaNoWriMo - ! Ah well. I will cope as best I can.
But - can you do me a favour? Let me know if any other such interesting plays turn up on stage in Toronto? I've wanted to see that one for a long time, regardless of the cast. And if I'd known ahead of time... well, it might have increased my chances of making it.
Actions (Jack being sidelined) speak louder than words.
Yes. You have to show not tell. Right? And RTD is giving mixed messages, whether he means to or not.
Re: The Elephant Man
Date: 2007-10-27 04:21 am (UTC)Here's a recent review of it, this time it's a good review.
[Sorry for the torchwoodgwen message - that was an accident - I forgot to sign in again as fajrdrako.]
I figured it was you. :)
I would love to go to Toronto and meet you and see the play, but I just can't afford the money or the time - and have two commitments already on Saturday afternoon. And I'd meant to keep the weekend free for getting ready for NaNoWriMo - ! Ah well. I will cope as best I can.
:~( that you can't make it. Hope they're fun commitments.
But - can you do me a favour? Let me know if any other such interesting plays turn up on stage in Toronto? I've wanted to see that one for a long time, regardless of the cast. And if I'd known ahead of time... well, it might have increased my chances of making it.
Sure. If you want to see what else is playing, 2007-2008, you can check the website, here:
http://www.canstage.com
I can see if anything interesting shows up elsewhere.
Actions (Jack being sidelined) speak louder than words.
Yes. You have to show not tell. Right? And RTD is giving mixed messages, whether he means to or not.
Yep, like Owen the rapist in "Everything Changes" and them not realizing it.
Re: The Elephant Man
Date: 2007-10-31 05:31 pm (UTC)Yes, that's a good example. It did a lot to set up Owen's character, and then it remained an unaddressed situation. I don't expect it will ever be alluded to again. Will Owen ever do something like that again? I don't know - I'd like to think he's a new man, but we shall see in series 2.
Actually I'd rather see series 2 Torchwood not be about Owen. Minimal Owen appearances (clothed or otherwise) would be just fine with me.