Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Angel (1x07)

[fajrdrako]

Angel. Aaaaah what a delicious episode.

See, romance on television is a delicate and terrible thing. I love romance, especially capital-R Romance, and we live in an unromantic age. I get my fix from Dunnett and 19th century poets and the like. Not often from books published as "romance", which are sometimes good but not what I'm looking for, and still less from television. One of the reasons I loved "Doctor Who" so much is that it presented me with one of the best romances ever on television. (The Doctor and Rose, if you're wondering what I'm talking about.)

Knowing Joss Whedon's track record, the last thing I expected from Buffy was really good romance. I expected sexy stuff and lots of action-adventure and humour and heartwarming stuff and good characterization and clever writing, but I didn't expect anything truly romantic because I've learned not to look for that on TV. Ever. And "Firefly" was mostly counter-romantic, but it had its moments. My belief is that Joss likes to present us with wonderful classic romance in the finest heart-wrenching fashion, and then twist it out of shape.

But here, in "Angel", we get real classic brilliantly-written doomed romance and I can hardly believe it. It doesn't matter what comes after this. It's a moment of romantic glory. It's set up so carefully - yes, of course I knew Angel was a vampire, because I'm coming in way after the fact, but if anything that foreknowledge just made it more effective.

Amazing. I can hardly believe my eyes.

Okay, now I've had my little rave, on to precise points.

1. Darla returns. I felt like cheering. Why was I happy to see her again? Maybe because she was one of the few vampires we've seen so far who actually has a personality. One of the only two, I'd say, the other being Angel. (I have the feeling that the Master has a sort of personality, but I haven't figured it out yet. So far he seems like a mouthpiece for dialogue. There's nothing real about him.)

2. I like Darla's line: "I don't get to have any fun." She's a sulker, isn't she?

3. "I will send the Three," says the Master. Joss seems to like using numbers this way. Prime numbers? Well, that's sort of traditional for the mystical, the mythical and the horrific. Snow White and the Six Dwarfs wouldn't sound as good. I'm not sure if I think this use of numbers is trite or clever.

4. The Annual Cockroach Rodeo. Eeuw.

5. Buffy: "For us to have a conversation about a guy, there'd have to be a guy for us to have a conversation about. Is that a sentence?" That's the kind of things writers write. And it amuses me.

6. Buffy: "Buffy: When [Angel] is around... it's like the lights dim everywhere else." So romantic! It sounds like something Lois McMaster Bujold would write.

7. Cordelia: "Please get your extreme oafishness off my two-hundred-dollar shoes!" This struck me as particularly bitchy, materialistic and prime Cordelia characterization. I hope she eventually develops into less of a one-note role. She has been consistently amusing but I'm getting impatient with her. She's becoming predictable in an unamusing way.

8. Xander to Cordelia: "Y'know, hey, I don't know what everyone's talking about. That outfit doesn't make you look like a hooker!" Oooh, good left hook! Is he developing some backbone? Some wit? Some defenses? And this is followed up by another good Xander line: "Boy, that Cordelia is a regular breath of vile air."

9. Liked Willow's depressed line, too: "Just sitting here, watching our barren lives pass us by." Aaaw.

10. I wouldn't have got it if I didn't already know the basics of Angel's story, but I loved the way it's set up when, after being attacked by the Three, Angel and Buffy run to Buffy's place, where she says, "Get in! C'mon!" and then, as the Three lurk around, Angel says, "It's all right. A vampire can't come in unless it's invited." Oooh. Deftly done, Joss.

11. I don't want to like the Three because they're hokey and they have no personality, but you know - I like the Three. I love their armour which implies, I don't know, a long and dramatic background of mid-Renaissance warfare in the steppes of Transylvania. Or mountains. Whatever. They're so tough and old they might be Vampire Huns.

12. I couldn't really make out Angel's tattoo properly. Were we suppose to see what it was?

13. Buffy's kind of unsubtle trying to keep her mother from seeing Angel. Surely every teen-age girl knows this kind of things is futile? But then her mother, later on, doesn't even hear Buffy and Angel talking in her room, which, unless they were totally soundproofed, seems extremely unlikely to me. Not a big deal. Just something... not handled very smoothly.

14. Sort of a rhetorical question here, so don't answer it: why does Angel spend the night in Buffy's room? Would the Three really kill him? Or is it just that he wants to hang around with Buffy? Or keep out of the Master's way? I'm hoping it's reason #2 there, but it might not be.

15. The next day: I like Xander's reaction - "Buffy, c'mon, wake up and smell the seduction. It's the oldest trick in the book." Pretend to be chivalrous - why don't more guys try it?

16. I still glaze over in boredom whenever the Master and the Anointed appear on screen. Yawn.

17. The diary conversation between Buffy and Angel was amusing. I know a lot of people (including myself) have dire "he read my diary" stories. (And in fact, the subject came up in last week's Torchwood...) I like the dialogue about his family, too: a nice set-up, first to make him seem sympathetic (poor guy, family killed by vampires) then horrific (he's a monster - as a vampire, he killed his own family). Effectively done.

18. So Angel says he wants to kiss her but it's a bad idea because he's "older". Right. He does seem to have unvampirelike scruples. Maybe even unhumanlike scruples. C'mon, Angel. Just kiss her.

19. He did.

20. And transforms. There's something a little "Beauty and the Beast" about that. Isn't the kiss supposed to turn the frog into the prince, not the prince into a vampire?

21. Cool, anyway.

22. But I still don't take back all those nasty things I've said about vampire romance. This is clearly and obviously a unique exception.

23. Xander isn't very compassionate about this. Sometimes he is... unendearing.

24. Love the dialogue between Angel and Darla:

Angel: What's with the Catholic schoolgirl look? Last time I saw you it was kimonos.
Darla: And last time I saw you it wasn't high school girls.

She has a point.

25. Nice Darla line: "Is there anything better than a natural disaster?" Heh.

26. I absolutely love the exchange between Darla and Angel:

Darla: You and your new friend are attacking us, like one of them. But guess what, precious? You're not one of them. (Sunlight.) Are you?
Angel: No. But I'm not exactly one of you either.
Darla: Is that what you tell yourself these days?

27. Giles says Angel/Angelus is "the one with the angelic face". I've seldom seen anyone who looks less angelic to my eyes. Now, Lymond looked angelic, a Della Robbia angel. But Angel? He looks human to my eyes. I've got over flinching at his looks (good) but I still don't find him particularly attractive - kind of interesting-looking, maybe, but certainly not angelic.

28. So Angel has been a vampire for 240 years. Cool.

29. Lovely Buffy-Willow exchange:

Buffy: You want Xander, you've gotta speak up, girl!
Willow: No, no, no, no. No speaking up. That way leads to madness and sweaty palms.

30. I loved Buffy's new mixed feelings about killing Angel. "I'm the Slayer, and he's a... vampire. God, I can't! He's never done anything to hurt me..." Interesting dilemma. Such a set-up. A totally impossible situation. (Rivalled, perhaps, only by Mal and Inara.)

31. I loved Darla telling Buffy's mother she's a friend of Buffy's, and getting Joyce to let her in. (Shudder.) And the Buffy comes and thinks it's Angel who attacked Joyce. Brilliant! It's the old "what's the worst thing that could happen?" trick. I love it.

32. And then I love the way Joyce just refers to Darla as "your friend" so Buffy thinks she's talking about Angel. Nice, nice set-up. Plausible.

33. Barbecue fork? Heh.

34. This isn't really a good Giles episode. He's fine, but doesn't get the best lines, the isn't the focus of any of the action, he doesn't give good advice or wisdom or (much) knowledge, and is generally overshadowed by the Buffy/Angel theme. About which he seems to have no advice or thoughts whatsoever.

35. I liked it when Joyce said, "That school is amazing," but I don't really like the way the plot (or the line) plays on her ignorance. It isn't quite fair.

36. Great Buffy-Angel exchange:

Angel: I'm just an animal, right?
Buffy: You're not an animal. Animals I like.

37. Great Angel-Buffy fight. Best fight in the show yet, I think.

38. More great dialogue, albeit a little expository:

Buffy: I've killed a lot of vampires. I've never hated one before.
Angel: Feels good, doesn't it? Feels simple.
Buffy: I invited you into my home and then you attacked my family! Angel: Why not? I killed mine. I killed their friends... and their friend's children... For a hundred years I offered ugly death to everyone I met, and I did it with a song in my heart.

[This reminds me of the Doctor's destroying Gallifrey in "Doctor Who". Same principle.]

39. So we get the story of Angel's curse. When my friends told me about this curse way back when the show was first on, it didn't make much sense to me. It makes more sense now, actually seeing how the action goes, and hearing what Angel says.

40. So Buffy offers herself to Angel. Vampirically speaking. Woo. But I love the symmetry: Buffy can't/won't kill Angel, he can't/won't bite Buffy. Powerful stuff.

41. I'm pretty sure Darla will be back. To interesting to disappear or die.

42. Good Angel line at the Bronze: "I just gotta... I gotta walk away from this." Hah! Famous last words.

43. So they kiss. Of course. Quite right, too. And another great bit of romantic dialogue/visual action:

Buffy: You okay?
Angel: It's just...
Buffy: ...painful. I know.

Then we see, but she doesn't, how her cross has burned him.

~ ~ ~


I liked it. A lot. In case you didn't already notice.

Comments

[monsieureden.livejournal.com]

Your posts are going to lead me to re-watching this show AGAIN. :) Well after House and Due South...

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

It's difficult to cram it all in, isn't it?

But so much fun.

[walkingowl.livejournal.com]

First of all, let me say that I am utterly enjoying your utter enjoyment of being able to see Buffy for the first time.

And this all reminds me of how hard it was for me to get into the series during its first season. All that you point out (Cordelia being one-note and getting tiresome fast, Xander needing a backbone, the vampires having no "real"-ness, no personality, and many other things) all served to slow me down, back when I first saw these... which was during reruns soon after they aired initially. Now, I can see all of it as Joss taking the first season to figure out how he wanted his universe to work, and how he wanted his characters to act within it. Much more is to come, be assured!

Must tell you, tho' -- Buffy did know that her cross had burned Angel, during their kiss. This was one of my favorite early "Buffy uses all her senses and all her sense" instances. You will see many more examples of this -- up to and including one in which she reaches up and catches something thrown at her by someone she couldn't possibly have seen except by extreme peripheral vision. Oh, yes, Buffy knew the cross burned him, and knew that he knew, and kept kissing him, and knew that he was going to keep kissing her too. Watch it again, see if you don't pick up all those nuances! You will want to start practicing, you see, for future episodes [hee].

As for the romance... ah, yes. I had not thought about it exactly, but you are indeed right: romance in Buffy, little in Firefly. I think that Joss had done romance to his happiness and satisfaction in Buffy (and if you don't agree by the time you've seen all seven seasons, I'll be surprised) and so did not pursue the same path in Firefly, but instead there played with other things.

As for Xander and Angel... he just doesn't trust him. You will learn to trust Xander's caution. At the least, it shows that he has a heart of gold which will never fail him (okay, except once, but I still don't consider that episode canon, rebel that I am).

As for Giles saying "the one with the angelic face"... to me, Angel is not attractive so much as striking; however, I can see how a face that holds so much deep anguish can be called "angelic," as I am not stuck on thinking that angels have a pass from feeling horrible feelings very deeply -- I'd say that their "angelic" nature would enhance their ability to feel things deeply, bad things as well as good things. Angelic torture on his face. Hm. Odd-sounding, maybe, but this is Joss Whedon we're talking about!

Lacks and unflattering bits like Joyce being played for a fool are just more evidence of Joss finding his way in the early episodes. You will love Joyce later -- she becomes truly heroic as only one's mother can ever be, belive me.

And I too loved that Willow/Buffy exchange -- that way leads madness and sweaty palms, that one -- it was one of my first favorite Willow/Buffy bits, and many more are to come. The fanfic that pairs the two of them is not far off the mark: their onscreen friendship really is that deep and genuine.

Angel sometimes struck me as too "normal" for carrying all that agony around in him. I'm not sure it's possible to write a character always on the edge of angst-driven madness, and make that character realistic. That's waht Angel was. Much more is to come with Angel. He will be magnificent, and Buffy will also, sometimes directly in reaction to him.

Oh. And I wanted to mention the fight sequences, because you do. This show became brilliant for the fight sequences. Look closely, and you still cannot tell when Sarah Michelle Gellar's stand-ins (she had two) take her place in the visuals. Gellar became as adept at "physical acting" as did Lucy Lawless; either of them could easily play any given comic book superhero, I'd say! It is a joy to watch the fight sequences just for the details in them. Well, maybe not in the first season. Later, however, I'd always have to play them over several times just to be sure I'd caught all the good stuff that had been put into them.

I am so glad you enjoy what you are seeing. And much more to come!

[dargie.livejournal.com]

Have to agree about Angel's looks. I think he's angelic not so much in a pretty, androgynous way, but in a fallen, warrior angel way. Angry, wounded, but not without hope.

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

Buffy did know that her cross had burned Angel, during their kiss

Huh. I have to disagree with you there - I have never thought that Buffy knew. The point you made about her senses is interesting, but I can't believe that Buffy would deliberately hurt Angel like that and I think that she would be mortified to hurt him by accident if she didn't rememeber about the cross until they were kissing.

Also, having watched it again, SMG is totally standing on a box for that scene! Either that or DB is in a hole.

This show became brilliant for the fight sequences.

Oh yeah. I'd completely forgotten how much lower the standard was in S1, because all the ones I remember are from later seasons. And SMG does sell them brilliantly. (Though you can tell when the stand ins replace her in later seasons because she's about 2 dress sizes smaller than them!)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I am utterly enjoying your utter enjoyment of being able to see Buffy for the first time.

I like hearing that. And I love having this sort of ready-made fandom that three quarters of my friends are already into. That being said, I feel starved for more Torchwood talk!

Much more is to come, be assured!

So everyone tells me. As of "Angel", I see the seeds of that, I think.

Angelic torture on his face.

Lovely sentence. Downright Lymondesque!

The fanfic that pairs the two of them

Er hmm. I never thought of that. Why didn't I think of that? I don't know them well enough yet to be into it, but... nice idea.

You will love Joyce later -- she becomes truly heroic as only one's mother can ever be, belive me.

Wonderful!

Angel sometimes struck me as too "normal" for carrying all that agony around in him. I'm not sure it's possible to write a character always on the edge of angst-driven madness, and make that character realistic.

Well - 'realism' is not necessarily a value for vampires, though everyone keeps telling me they're metaphors. Right. So far, I can buy it: everyone wears their own personal agony (or madness) in different ways. Angel has his way. So far I find him utterly realistic in that regard. Often looking as if he has a stomach ache.

So far the fight scenes have been a little clumsy and arbitrary; I'm glad to hear they get better. By "arbitrary" I mean there are instances where Buffy looks to be in peril of imminent danger - the end of the first episode is a good example, and the scene in "The Pack" where Xander appears about to rape her - and in the next scene she's out of the peril and in a different situation. We know she hit Xander with a desk, but the plots logistics and/or implications aren't the point - it seems like cheating to me, that we get to see the imperilment but not the resolution of it.

Put another way: girls in danger are a dime a dozen in any TV show or movie. Buffy is remarkable because she's a superhero and can fight her way out. I don't much like the imbalance of seeing the threat but not the triumph.

Or at least... it bothered me enough to notice it.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Buffy did know that her cross had burned Angel, during their kiss

You may be right, but how can we know? I'd have to watch again to be sure, but as I recall, we don't see Buffy after that, and there's no indication that she knew - she had immediately turned away because of her own emotional pain.

[dargie.livejournal.com]

We're up to season 5 right now (and season 2 or 3 of Angel, I can't remember which; we're watching them in tandem to keep a chronological order to both.) and you're making me want to go back and start Buffy all over again.

Around here The Anointed One is referred to as The Annoying One. I kind of like The Master, but TAO never becomes more interesting, sad to say.

Cordelia, on the other hand... Well, you'll see. Especially if you watch Angel when you finish Buffy.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

you're making me want to go back and start Buffy all over again

So - go ahead!

The Annoying One

Heh - I can see that. Though I'm not exactly annoyed with him, just bored to the point of inattention.

[luthien.livejournal.com]

You are making me want to watch Buffy again from the beginning! I am biting my tongue *really* hard here because there's so much to come in the Buffy/Angel storyline and I'm really going to enjoy reading your reactions to its development.

As for Cordelia: annoying, yes, but... keep watching.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

You are making me want to watch Buffy again from the beginning!

Well - go ahead! You have the technology.

I live in happy anticipation of more about Buffy, Angel and Cordelia. And Giles. Everyone.

[gillo]

Ah. I knew you'd love this episode. The face shifting on the first kiss is a very clear metaphor of sexual arousal and works very well in that context. I think the "face of an angel" thing is explained more fully in one or two later episodes, in

Buffy

or in

Angel

- forget which. It has to be said that a lot of teenage girls found DB irresistably pretty at the time, though - I taught a fair number of them and saw their reaction at first hand.

So Angel says he wants to kiss her but it's a bad idea because he's "older". Right. He does seem to have unvampirelike scruples. Maybe even unhumanlike scruples. C'mon, Angel. Just kiss her.

Ah, but he's a very unvampirelike vampire - I can only think of one other with scruples and we don't see him or them for some while.

Cordelia: "Please get your extreme oafishness off my two-hundred-dollar shoes!" This struck me as particularly bitchy, materialistic and prime Cordelia characterization. I hope she eventually develops into less of a one-note role. She has been consistently amusing but I'm getting impatient with her. She's becoming predictable in an unamusing way.

S1 Cordy is a bit one-note, but oh boy will she develop over the next six years! Ditto with Joyce and, in a way, Darla. Actually, one of the joys of this show is that they all develop, grow up, move on in all sorts of ways.

You think this is high romance. Just you wait!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I knew you'd love this episode.

Predictable... I did.

The face shifting on the first kiss is a very clear metaphor of sexual arousal and works very well in that context.

So far the sexual metaphors are exceptionally well done.

It has to be said that a lot of teenage girls found DB irresistably pretty at the time, though - I taught a fair number of them and saw their reaction at first hand.

I can understand that. Just can't see it myself, in this instance. (Have I mentioned how eagerly I am waiting for Spike?)

I love shows and stories where character really develop. It's one of my favourite things.

You think this is high romance. Just you wait!

Oooh! Okay.

[kathyh]

This struck me as particularly bitchy, materialistic and prime Cordelia characterization. I hope she eventually develops into less of a one-note role.

It's hard to comment without spoiling you but this is something you don't need to worry about.

I don't really like the way the plot (or the line) plays on her ignorance.

It isn't, but it's early days yet, and the whole of Sunnydale is afflcted with a kind of wilful blindness at times. Necessary for storytelling purposes, but not always believable, unless you see it as a metaphor for adults not understanding teenagers concerns.

Glad you liked this episode as it's definitely one of the best in Season 1 and unbelievably important in terms of story arc.

It's so enjoyable watching you meet these characters for the first time. I feel an annoying urge coming on to sit here cackling "wait and see" *g*.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

this is something you don't need to worry about.

Glad to hear it!

the whole of Sunnydale is afflcted with a kind of wilful blindness at times

Like Rhys and most of Cardiff in series 1 Torchwood - yeah, I can understand that. Like saying "a whole bunch of wild dogs broke in and ate the principal" because, absurd as it is, it seems more plausible than saying "a bunch of students ate the principal".

I feel an annoying urge coming on to sit here cackling "wait and see" *g*.

...You mean you aren't?

[gillo]

I feel an annoying urge coming on to sit here cackling "wait and see" *g*.

I share that urge. And it's so very hard not to give spoilers, isn't it?

I'm rewatching S4 currently. Can you believe we had episodes like

Pangs

,

Something Blue

and

Hush

all within the same month? I miss that show so much.

[firko.livejournal.com]

Your Buffy posts are fascinating and make me wish I could turn the clock back and fall in love with it all over again!

I especially love your appreciation of Darla. She is a wonderful character and although the things she does are not so nice, she just works, both as a character in her own right and as the link to how Angel could do the terrible things he did before the gypsy curse. She also does a nice line in disdain at what Angel has become.

Cordelia and Xander were never my favourite characters on Buffy although other fans adore them.

I'll be interested to see if you move on to Angel after your Buffy experience!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

She is a wonderful character and although the things she does are not so nice, she just works, both as a character in her own right and as the link to how Angel could do the terrible things he did before the gypsy curse.

I like it that she presents the vampire point of view. The Master doesn't - he doesn't have enough character for that, he's a sort of symbol/figurehead. But Darla, because she can look and act so human, gives us the vampire's-eye-view of things. Buffy is human, Angel is sort of a half-human/half-vampire compromise. Darla is pure vampire.

Cordelia and Xander were never my favourite characters on Buffy although other fans adore them.

So far I'm pretty neutral on them. They aren't annoying (usually), they have some good lines and their place in the plot, but they could disappear forever and I wouldn't necessarily miss them.

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

Joss likes to present us with wonderful classic romance in the finest heart-wrenching fashion, and then twist it out of shape

Oh my God, does he ever! Just you wait, 'enry 'iggins, just you wait.

Ahem. Yes, Angel is one of the episodes in BtVS, setting up events and mythology for the show that reverberate all the way to the very end. I don't think it is prefect, mind - there are episodes later that will utterly blow you away and I think Angel does have flaws - but it is a hugely important episode.

Maybe because she was one of the few vampires we've seen so far who actually has a personality. One of the only two, I'd say, the other being Angel.

Yeah, that's fair. There are two kinds of vamps in BtVS - cannon fodder and ones that have agency of their own. The ones that are important to the plot are obviously better written - and the better written and more personality they have, generally the more important and lasting they are.

Cordelia characterization. [...]She's becoming predictable in an unamusing way.

She does become less predictable - even by the end of this season. I grew to love Cordelia on Buffy.

"Y'know, hey, I don't know what everyone's talking about. That outfit doesn't make you look like a hooker!" Oooh, good left hook! Is he developing some backbone? Some wit? Some defenses?

Yup, and yup. Xander vs. Cordelia tends to bring it out! And I think all the bits of dialogue you picked out in the Bronze scene are great.

And transforms. There's something a little "Beauty and the Beast" about that. Isn't the kiss supposed to turn the frog into the prince, not the prince into a vampire?

I find that moment interesting because of the loss of control by Angel. When I was watching the previous episodes again, one of the things I was noticing particularly was how uncomfortable Angel seemed around people. He never lingers, just gives Buffy whatever message and then leaves. So he is very isolated, unused to actual human physical contact and he says he hasn't fed on a human since the curse. He's stayed away because he can't trust his control, which of course means he has no practice staying in control when he does get that close. And that is why he vamps out and doesn't manage to stop himself. Anyway, that's what I think.

Xander isn't very compassionate about this. Sometimes he is... unendearing

Yeah. Angel does not bring out his best side, to put it mildly.

I absolutely love the exchange between Darla and Angel

Mm, it's very good. Though my favourite moment between them is the later scene where Angel pushes her against the wall and she says "You're hurting me. That's good too." Watch that Joss, sneaking in the twistedness.

I loved Darla telling Buffy's mother she's a friend of Buffy's, and getting Joyce to let her in

Okay, I love that plotwise for this episode. But it bothers me a bit because it makes a mockery of Buffy keeping her Slayerness a secret. How does Darla know where she lives? Well, presumably the Three told them, which means the Master knows as well. Or an outside possibility is Darla finds out because she knows Buffy's name, but either way the episode shows it is not that hard for the forces of evil to find out where Buffy lives and that means the secrecy puts her mother in danger because she is the only one who doesn't know the danger exists. That's actually my major complaint about this episode, btw, and I agree with your point about the plot playing on Joyce's ignorance. Thankfully, as someone else says, Joyce is allowed to move beyond a metaphor for parents not understanding.

Why not? I killed mine. I killed their friends... and their friend's children... For a hundred years I offered ugly death to everyone I met, and I did it with a song in my heart.

That is probably one of my favourite Angel moments. I love the little twisted smile he has.

"I just gotta... I gotta walk away from this." Hah! Famous last words

Absolutely. But also true, in many ways.

(Sigh. Edited because I forgot to close an italic. *is irritated*)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Just you wait, 'enry 'iggins, just you wait.

LOL - one of my favourite musicals, that. I pause to consider John Barrowman in the role of Henry Higgings. It would be playing against the usual type of casting for the role, but I think it would be brilliant. To have the casually chauvinistic Higgins played by someone gorgeous - it would put all the more depth into Eliza's role. I'd like that. And I think Barrowman could do it brilliantly.

a hugely important episode

It's a twist of theme. So far it's been "schoolgirl fights vampires and monsters" without much more oomph to it than that. Now the stakes are higher - the monsters can be in our own hearts, and the Beast can love the Beauty. Nice layering of themes. I hope for more to come.

I grew to love Cordelia on Buffy.

Good. I didn't think, given what I've heard about the show, that she could remain so one-dimensional.

Yup, and yup. Xander vs. Cordelia tends to bring it out!

That in itself is a good reason for her existence!

I find that moment interesting because of the loss of control by Angel.

Godo point. Yes, it makes sense that Angel should have fears about his own sense of control. And it raises the interesting question of his two levels of self-control needed: control of the vampire's lust for blook and control of the man's lust for sex. Both of which are dangerous to him, for different reasons. But, repressing everything, what is left to him? Even on a level of 'companionship' he doesn't belong with either vampires or humans. Buffy's being a Slayer, not a normal human, just raises it another notch - moves her from the level of 'potential victim' to 'enemy'. But as in any good Montague/Capulet story, the enemy is in our hearts.

Watch that Joss, sneaking in the twistedness.

Good for him!

How does Darla know where she lives? Well, presumably the Three told them, which means the Master knows as well.

She'd be in the phone book, wouldn't she be? (I'm not sure yet whether the vampires are literate. The vampires created within the last century presumably would be.)

either way the episode shows it is not that hard for the forces of evil to find out where Buffy lives and that means the secrecy puts her mother in danger because she is the only one who doesn't know the danger exists.

Yes to all of that. An old comic book dilemma, and Joss is playing on all the themes of comic books.

That is probably one of my favourite Angel moments. I love the little twisted smile he has.

Yes - I may still have trouble with David Boreanaz, and I do, but how can I not like a character with lines and moments like that?

[sparklebutch.livejournal.com]

I will sit back and quote Xander at you. I will remove content which may be spoilery.

XANDER: You know how some people hate to say I told you so? Not me. I told you so. [Content], and uh, I told you so.

That's just re you watching Buffy. That is all.





Okay, not all: "angelic face" - possibly it's the lack of expression the man had in earlier seasons. I will tell you the acting improves.

"Mal and Inara" - how is that comparable? The only problem Mal and Inara had was MAL. Nothing like the whole slayer/vampire issues.

Just so you know, Cat and I sit here and giggle and call and point and mention future eps and "oh my god I can't believe how - " and "she's gonna love this when she gets to it" and "she's gonna explode."

"I killed mine. I killed their friends... and their friend's children... For a hundred years I offered ugly death to everyone I met, and I did it with a song in my heart." - actually reminds me of a Methos line. "And I was good at it."

[star-momma.livejournal.com]

"Mal and Inara" - how is that comparable? The only problem Mal and Inara had was MAL. Nothing like the whole slayer/vampire issues.

I'll agree with ya on that one. Stupid male ego bullsh*t. ::shakes head:: Mal's so pretty, but he's not very bright sometimes.

[rosiespark.livejournal.com]

You're making me want to start watching Buffy. Please stop it at once! ;)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I am a willing slave to your every desire, but - I'm not sure how to stop doing it. It isn't my fault! Blame Buffy! Blame Simon! (I'm sure it's all his fault, really.) Blame everybody I've ever known who has urged me and encouraged me to watch it - and they all prod me on further by talking to me about it as I so love.

It's like a major vampiric conspiracy.

[star-momma.livejournal.com]

I'm so glad you're feeling the love! Not going to go point by point, but I agree that this is a lovely episode. I've never found Angel physically all that attractive myself, but over the years I have been in and out of love with the character. Sometimes he's amazing, sometimes the brooding makes me want to slap him - but he always has strong moments that make it worth it.

As to Xander being a jerk about Angel... well, I can't say I don't understand. I get jealous too, even if it's over someone I'm interested in who doesn't see me as anything but a wacky (okay, not so wacky in my case) sidekick. It's frustrating, and as a teenager, how many of us know how to properly handle stuff like that? We don't. We either sulk or we get pissy. Heck, I still do sometimes. But, anyway, I loves me some Xander, so I'm biased ;)

I really did fall in love with Darla. She's one of those chars where there's no reason to *like* her, but... I can't help it. I even play her on a game now. As for the Master... he's more of a plot point than a full, rounded character. He's entertaining, but not meant to be the be all and end all. There are a lot of Big Bads in the world.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Sometimes he's amazing, sometimes the brooding makes me want to slap him -

Heh. I still don't really like Angel himself - something about David Boreanaz continues to put me off - but it hardly matters, in the excellent depiction of the character.

I certainly have no argument with Xander being realistic. He is. This doesn't exactly work in his favour.

I really did fall in love with Darla. ... I even play her on a game now.

Should I worry?

No, really, I can kind of relate. I'm not sure what it is about Darla, but... she has a lot of integrity as a character. She is the 'real' vampire in contrast to Angel the conlicted vampire. She has strengths of her own.

As for the Master... he's more of a plot point than a full, rounded character

Yeah. He's sort of a ... a catalyst for things to happen. I find him totally pointless but don't mind sleeping through his scenes until I can wake up and pay attention to the other characters again.

Oh, and FRENCH!

[sparklebutch.livejournal.com]

It was you, wasn't it, who thought the abomination of dubbing is commendable. I am here to tell you that I just found that the French have dubbed not just the texts, but the bloody SONGS. Oh yes. They did the songs.

Personally I think Joss should sue them. In fact, I think fans should unite and sue the French as a group.

Re: Oh, and FRENCH!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Lawsuits galore!

My comments on dubbing were not meant to apply to Buffy, which I have not heard in French, merely to Torchwood, which I get a kick out of en français.