Plotting...

[fajrdrako]

This evening I went to a NaNoWriMo plotting workshop at the public library. And it was very useful.

In manageable groups, we discussed our general plot and and our plotting problems, and did some brainstorming on the subject. I don't know about the others, but for me it was extremely useful. I talked about my story - historical adventure - and the comments, questions and suggestions really helped me put a shape to my ideas.

At one point, though, diurnal_lee said, as we discussed my story ideas, "I keep thinking of Francis Crawford."

Headdesk.

Really. I'm trying to write original, fresh, creative stuff. moved by all sorts of influences. And the influence of Dorothy Dunnett is so strong it shows up in casual conversation about my story?

I'm not sure whether to wail or be proud.

Comments

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Yes, I can understand that.

In similar mode, when I think of Lindisfarne or the Northumbria area in England, I think of James Clavell's Shogun, because I was reading it the first time I travelled through there. It wasn't that it was such a great book, but it did have a powerful setting, and the powerful setting around me - some of the most beautiful country in the world - was in such contrast.

And I suppose A Feast for Crows by George R.R. Martin will always remind me of Malta, though not necessarily vice versa.

Sometimes a book just reminds me vividly of what I was doing (or supposed to be doing) at the time. Reading all the Asterix albums when I should have been studying for undergraduate exams. Reading Pawn in Frankincense when I was supposed to be reading A Farewell to Arms for grade 13 English. (When I finished PF and got to A Farewell to Arms, I loved it.)

[mmegaera.livejournal.com]

On a similar note, I can look at any of my quilts and tell you what I was listening to when I quilted it (audiobooks and hand quilting go together like tea and lemon).

I, um, don't have any fond memories of Hemingway...

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

don't have any fond memories of Hemingway...

No? I haven't read a lot of Hemingway and The Sun Also Rises left me cold, but I really loved A Farewell to Arms. It's one of those books that always makes me cry.

[mmegaera.livejournal.com]

He's one of those authors I had force-fed to me when I was in school, who was forever ruined afterwards for me.

I probably ought to try him again one of these days, now that enough time has passed, but it's not high on my list of priorities [g].

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't worry about it. There's no need to like Hemingway if you don't. I discovered Hemingway at a point when I thought I didn't like any American authors besides Stan Lee. Then I discovered Hemingway and Steinbeck and Chandler and changed my attitude entirely.

[mmegaera.livejournal.com]

Oh, now Steinbeck...

Although I have to say my favorite Steinbeck is not one of his novels. I absolutely adore Travels with Charley.

My real problem with a lot of American "classic" authors is that I was an English major in college. So many of them got analyzed to death in those classes...

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

You know, I still haven't read Travels With Charley, though I've always intended to. That TBR pile is starting to look like a space elevator.

I read very little American literature in school. As an undergraduate, I studied only two English courses, one called "science and literature", which was mostly early classics of SF, and some of the authors I don't know or don't recall their nationality - is William Golding American? I have a notion he was British, but I don't really remember. Ditto Olaf Stapledon (whom I managed not to read). Others, like Sir Thomas More, Shakespeare, Bacon, and Mary Shelley, were certainly British.

The other English course I took was mostly things in translation - "English and Continental Texts from Chanson de Roland to Balzac."

Most of the literature courses I took were in French or Italian. So I still haven't read most of the 'great' American authors.

[mmegaera.livejournal.com]

Travels with Charley, along with William Least Heat Moon's Blue Highways, inspired one of the great adventures of my life so far, a three-month solo cross-country automobile trip, from here (near Seattle) to Vermont, then down the east coast to Florida, then across to California, where I rolled my car [wry g]. I intend some day to make a similar trip (sans car wreck, thankyouverymuch) across the middle of the US, north to the Maritimes, and back west across Canada. I'm shooting for the year I hit 55 (I made the first trip when I was forty).

I read very little American literature in school.

If it's any consolation, I haven't read much Canadian literature, either, just the usual L.M. Montgomery and one obligatory volume of Margaret Atwood about thirty years ago. Oh, and the Pierre Berton book about the Dionne Quintuplets (who were something of a fascination for me a number of years ago), and a couple of volumes by the guy who wrote Never Cry Wolf. Still, not very much.

And, yes, I had a fair number of British authors ruined for me in college as well. Gods bless Kenneth Branagh, is all I have to say on that subject [g].

I'm pretty sure William Golding is American, but [stops to wiki] -- nope, he was British. You're talking the guy who wrote Lord of the Flies, right? Not William Goldman, who wrote The Princess Bride? Goldman is American.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

a three-month solo cross-country automobile trip, from here (near Seattle) to Vermont, then down the east coast to Florida, then across to California

That sounds wonderful! It sounds rather like the trip Bill Bryson took, too. (I forget which book that was.) Your planned trip sounds terrific. I love the Maritimes - hope to go back there some time.

I like L.M. Mongomery well enough, though I really haven't read a lot of her works. Don't like Margaret Atwood at all and stopped reading her out of patriotic duty some time ago. This is not to say I dislike all her books - I was quite impressed by The Handmaid's Tale - but I really don't like her writing style. Pierry Berton is fun but not exciting. The guy who wrote Never Cry Wolf is Farley Mowat, and he's great.

My favourite Canadian writers are Jane Rule (who writes about Lesbian and gay characters in BC), Antonine Maillet (who writes Acadian fantasy-comedy), Karin Lowachee (who writes SF), Guy Gavriel Kay (who writes historically-based fantasy), Miriam Toews, and William Gibson (who writes Cyberpunk).

I had a fair number of British authors ruined for me in college as well.

I managed to avoid all that! Though I do recall a fill-in teacher in first year university making us read William Blake. I hated William Blake. The rest of the world finds him charming and I find him twee.

Yes, I meant William Golding - I think I was thinking of The Inheritors, which I liked a lot. I also like the books of William Goldman, whom I have read but not studied, and ditto his brother James Goldman, who wrote The Lion in Winter and other great things. The Goldmans were American.

[mmegaera.livejournal.com]

I adore Bill Bryson, but I didn't run across his peripatetic books until after I made my own long trip. The one about his trip across America was called The Lost Continent, but my favorite Bryson of all time is Notes from a Small Island. I don't think I've ever laughed so hard at a book in all my life.

L.M. Montgomery was a childhood favorite for me, who has held up over the years (unlike many books in that category). I also thought that the first of the fairly recent PBS/CBC versions of the Anne books was done very well, although the second and third ones didn't stick with the books and went very rapidly downhill.

Thanks for the author recommendations (makes notes). I've read one William Gibson and didn't much care for him, but your one-line descriptions of some of the others look very interesting.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I haven't read Notes from a Small Island yet. My favourite Bill Bryson by far was Mother Tongue, which was the first one I read. But I've liked them all.

I haven't read much William Gibson, but what I read, I found interesting. Not interesting enough to want to read a lot of them, but there was an originality and vividness to them that I loved. Quite un-Canadian, actually. I find Canadian novels tend to be rather too introspective. We are a nation of novelistic navel-gazers.

[mmegaera.livejournal.com]

You've been to the UK, right? Then you must read Notes from a Small Island. Truly. I liked Mother Tongue, but not nearly as much. I liked his big fat book about "Nearly Everything," too, but it's much more serious.

We are a nation of novelistic navel-gazers.

Is that true of Canadian genre fiction, or just the lit-ra-choor? Because American lit-ra-choor can navel-gaze with the best of 'em.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

You've been to the UK, right?

Yup. Did my postgraduate degree there.

I liked his big fat book about "Nearly Everything," too, but it's much more serious.

Agreed.

Is that true of Canadian genre fiction, or just the lit-ra-choor?

Just the lit-ra-choor, I guess, though we seem to have porportionalety more highbrow CanLit (which I find very dull) and fewer genre writers. Or sometimes there's no way to judge whether the genre writer is Canadian or not. For example, would I know Jo Beverley was Canadian if I didn't know her? I don't think I would. Ditto, maybe, Guy Gavriel Kay. Unless the story is set in Canada, or about Canada, it becomes a non-issue.

As, in a way, it should be: to some extent I think judging works by their nationality of origin is unwise and even misleading. On the other hand, there are national tendencies which reflect the tendencies of the writers as a group, though not necessarily individually.

[mmegaera.livejournal.com]

Unless the story is set in Canada, or about Canada, it becomes a non-issue.

True. I was very surprised to find out that Jo Beverley lives just across Puget Sound from me in Victoria. She writes so, er, British [g]. Then again, Victoria is supposed to be more British than Britain (actually, it's just the tourist areas, and they're just more a caricature of Britain than Britain [g] -- not that it's not a very enjoyable place to visit).

So what's your favorite genre fiction set in Canada? Anybody besides Charles de Lint? (who is not my favorite, unfortunately) You mentioned someone who wrote magical realism set in the Maritimes. Anyone else?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I was very surprised to find out that Jo Beverley lives just across Puget Sound from me in Victoria. She writes so, er, British [g].

She was raised in England, so she comes by it honestly. I got to know her when she lived in Ottawa.

Victoria is supposed to be more British than Britain

So I've heard - though I'm not sure I've ever heard a British person say it.

what's your favorite genre fiction set in Canada?

Karin Lowachee. (SF)

Anybody besides Charles de Lint? (who is not my favorite, unfortunately)

I'm not into Charles de Lint's novels myself, though I like him personally, and I like his music. I read Moonheart and was bored, so didn't read any more. I've always thought I might try again with another book, but with so much to read, it's not a high priority.

Anyone else?

Guy Gavriel Kay, whose style I love, though I think his books vary in quality. (They're fantasy.) I enjoyed that mystery novel I recently read, set in Saskatoon, by Anthony Bidulka.

I'll see if I can think of more.

[mmegaera.livejournal.com]

I was looking at the catalog records for Karin Lowachee, but her books aren't set in Canada -- at least the three my library has aren't (Warchild, Cagebird, and Burndive). Any who write genre fiction set in Canada? (the library doesn't have Bidulka, alas).

I heard Charles de Lint in concert at Foolscap (a con in Seattle in September), and I like his music alright -- nothing to write home about, but pleasant.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

No, Karin Lowachee's books aren't set in Canada, they're set in a futuristic Earth-based empired. Texas get mentioned - one of the characters is from Texas. I can't think where else.

Several mystery writers (e.g., Gail Bowen, Susan Wittig Albert) write mysteries set in Canada, but I'm not really a fan of their books - they're okay but dull. I was told last week about a writer who sets her novels in and around Ottawa, but I haven't tracked her down yet - I'm waiting for my friend to give me her name.

I believe Tanya Huff writes SF and fantasy set in Toronto.

[mmegaera.livejournal.com]

Susan Wittig Albert's books are set in Texas, unless she's writing another series I don't know about besides the China Bayles books. I like that series, but I'm woefully behind on it. She lives in Texas, I do know that.

I don't recognize Gail Bowen. Tanya Huff is too gory for me, or at least the one book I tried back when she was writing romantic suspense was.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Susan Wittig Albert's books are set in Texas, unless she's writing another series I don't know about besides the China Bayles books.

Then I am confusing her with a Toronto author named Albert - or something like that. Give me a while and my burdened brain will probably come up with it. I have read one of her books, and didn't like it. But the idea was interesting: the protagonist had been a prominent judge in the Toronto court systems, who'd chucked the system and was now homeless and living in the ravine. Sadly, he turned out to be not very interesting otherwise. A book by the person I'm thinking of, I mean, not SWA, whom I clearly haven't read, just confused her with someone else.

Gail Bowen's books are set, I think, in southern Saskatchewan. I read a couple. Wasn't impressed. Another dull protagonist.

I haven't read Tanya Huff at all yet.

[mmegaera.livejournal.com]

Nothing more off-putting, IMHO, than a dull protagonist. Since I read for character, pretty much full stop.

Thanks for the warning [g].

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I read for character too, and I tend to like characters who are vivid and outrageous - Miles, Lymond, Eugenides, and other of that type - to those who are dull.

[mmegaera.livejournal.com]

Eugenides???

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

The hero of Megan Whalen Turner's novels, The Thief (http://cdn.harpercollins.com/harperimages/isbn/large/6/9780060824976.jpg), The Queen of Attolia (http://cdn.harpercollins.com/harperimages/isbn/large/9/9780060841829.jpg) and The King of Attolia (http://cdn.harpercollins.com/harperimages/isbn/large/4/9780060835774.jpg). They are high on the list of "books I have loved", in large part because of my love of the hero, Gen.

[rosiespark.livejournal.com]

And I suppose A Feast for Crows by George R.R. Martin will always remind me of Malta

And possibly of Gozo, though I seem to remember that you carried the book, doorstopper that it is, in your bag all day without reading a single word. So was it the lure of the Gozitan scenery or the charm of the company that kept you from reading? :)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I seem to remember that you carried the book, doorstopper that it is, in your bag all day without reading a single word.

So I did. that can happen, too.

So was it the lure of the Gozitan scenery or the charm of the company that kept you from reading? :)

Both, of course.

It helps that it isn't Martin's best book.