Doctor Who: "The Unquiet Dead"

[fajrdrako]

rosiespark and I have been discussing series 1 Doctor Who episode by episode. I started off with Rose, she followed up with The End of the World, and now it's my turn again here with The Unquiet Dead.

I might as well confess at the outset that "The Unquiet Dead" is my least favourite of all the episodes of Doctor Who I have seen. I can't entirely put my finger on why, though I think there are four reasons - five, maybe - all of which can be summed up as "Mark Gatiss' writing style". The fact that he himself refers to "the morbid, ebony-black grotesqueness of the nineteenth century" is not a good sign for his approach. I'll try not to dwell on the negative, because watching this again, I still enjoyed myself - it doesn't annoy me, or bore me, or make me want to watch something else instead. I still love the Doctor and Rose in it. It's more that I find the other characters dull and the story fairly weak - not really funny, not really scary.

Breaking it down into aspects:

1. Charles Dickens. I was disappointed by the way Dickens was portrayed. Yes, I know it's my own fannishness coming through here. It isn't that Simon Callow isn't a good actor - I've loved him in other things. It's the concept: Dickens as being old and jaded; or Dickens as a skeptic, despite the evidence of his own eyes; Dickens as a foil to the Doctor. I'd like to see him as smarter, snappier, wittier.
   
   On the plus side, I did love it that the Doctor is a fan, and happy to say so. (Despite Martin Chuzzelwit.) His fannishness didn't come across with the sincerity I saw in David Tennant's performance of the Doctor facing Shakespeare in The Shakespeare Code, and he seemed a little too willing to criticize Dickens.... If I were an eight year old who didn't know anything about Dickens, I wouldn't have been left thinking highly of Dickens from this.
   
   My favourite of his lines: "What phantasmagoria is this?"



2. The Story. The plot doesn't entirely make sense to me, though it's intriguing. I'm not very fond of Mark Gatiss' understated writing style; his characters seem to me a little smaller than life.
   
   But there are some aspects of the story I do like. One is the continuity between this episode and Torchwood; the Rift goes right through Sneed's house - does that mean his house was right on the site of what later became Roald Dahl Plass, with the fountain and the Millennium Centre? I like that. But the story implies that it has been only the Gelth trying to get through the Rift for many, many years - perhaps they blocked the entryway? When the Gelth say, "Open the Rift!" I thought of Bilis - and Owen. And when the Doctor said, "The Rift is getting wider," I thought; "That line was stolen from Torchwood!" Though I suppose it's really the other way round.
   
   As far as I know, this is the only episode of Doctor Who with a psychic character, aside from the Doctor himself.
   
   The Gelth reminded me of the Family in "Human Nature" and "The Family of Blood", except that they inhabit the living, while the Gelth favour corpses. Because of the gas. The gas connections weren't entirely convincing to me; but that's okay, it wouldn't be the only Doctor Who villains who didn't entirely make sense to me.



3. Interesting to see Eve Myles play Gwyneth. She doesn't remind me of Gwen Cooper, which is a sign of Eve Myles' grasp of characterization. At the same time, I don't find Gwyneth very interesting. I do like her private conversation with Rose about the butcher boy's bum, but there remains something limited about her - it doesn't seem to me that Gwyneth has much personality.
   
   I love it that she mentioned "bad wolf".



4. Again, I love it that the Gelth mentioned the Time War - a phrase calculated to trigger the Doctor's sense of concern and guilt. Did they know that? What, then, did they know of the Doctor? Were they using a psychic conduit trick, through Gwyneth, to know what phrase to use? Or were they in fact victims of the Time War, just not very nice ones?



5. There are many clues here to reinforce my belief that the Doctor is already very much in love with Rose, even if he doesn't know what to do about it - except feel guilty. Is there any other point at which he says she's beautiful?



6. I might add that I think Rose has a beautiful personality, but I thought she looked awful in that dress and bonnet. The boots were good. I loved the boots.



7. The voices of the Gelth sounded like the fairies in "Small Worlds" and the petal-aliens in "Fear Her". Are there no other ways to do group-personality aliens?



8. Interesting that Rose thinks the bodies of the dead should be respected, and the Doctor doesn't. Is it that he thinks the needs of the living outweigh the needs of the dead? This episode skirts on some life and death issues that are very interesting, but never quite comes to grips with the articulation of any of them. It isn't that this is beyond the scope of a kid's show, since other episodes do it well. It's more that this particular episodes hints at meanings and then backs off.



9. The best thing about this episode was its discussion of time. There are some terrific quotes. For example:

   Rose: Think about it, though. Christmas 1860 happens once, just once, and then it's finished. It's gone, it'll never happen again. Except for you. You can go back and see days that are dead and gone. A hundred thousand sunsets ago. No wonder you never stay still.

   And despite my rude comments about Mark Gatiss a while back, I think that is a beautifully written passage, both for content and wording: a hundred thousand sunsets. It says a lot about Rose, and he intelligence and insight, not to mention her sense of beauty. It also conveys something about the Doctor himself; his sense of priorities, the way they dovetail with hers.
   
   I wonder, though: "You can go back and see days that are dead and gone." I assume he can't go back to the same day over and over - no Groundhog Day here? Or can he? Captain Jack implies he has gone back to Volcano Day and the Blitz more than once - is he carefully trying to avoid himself all the time, or is the timeline more complicated than that?



10. Other good aspects about that scene: the Doctor says, "Give the man a medal. Earth. Naples. December 24th, 1860." But it turns out it isn't. Presumably the controls on the TARDIS aren't very accurate. Or is the TARDIS lying to him? I like the notion that the TARDIS sees and finds its own trouble spots, and might have spotted the problem with the Rift and the Gelth from afar. Or maybe the TARDIS was trying to keep them out of trouble - it was clear that the Doctor hadn't a clue what was happening in Naples on Christmas Eve, 1860, but it seems to me that around that time Garibaldi was advancing on the city with his armies of liberation. The TARDIS might have been trying to keep them out of a war zone. - Oh, I just noticed: Garibaldi and those soldiers were actually in an early draft of this story. Heh.



11. And the following phrase strikes me as utterly romantic:

    Rose: ...It's Christmas.
    The Doctor: All yours.

    Which, in keeping with the overt tone of the show, is said lightly, but really has depths and layers: he's making a gift to her of time and space. Or, in fact, this time and this space, in all its unique specialness which she articulates so perfectly. And then the punchline, after her speech:

    The Doctor: Not a bad life.
    Rose: Better with two.

    ...And I can't help thinking, what perfect articulation of romance, or Romance with a capital R, worthy of the greatest of poets and writers, and delivered subtly and casually in a somewhat macabre horror story written so as not to bore the 8 year olds.
    
    This is echoed by the heroic dialogue later on:

    Rose: But we'll go down fighting, yeah?
    The Doctor: You bet.
    Rose: Together.
    The Doctor: Yeah. I'm glad I met you.
    Rose: Me too.

    It's anyone's guess as to the levels of self-awareness there, at least on Rose's part.



12. I love it that the Doctor calls Rose "Barbarella". But does he worry about what she wears in other episodes? Do fashion choices only matter in connection with the past, not the future? Personally I wish he'd dressed in some elegant fashion of 1860 because he's look terrific, but I like the way Nine dressed anyway. No complaints about that jumper from me.

Comments

[nina-ds.livejournal.com]

Hi, here via new_who. Since I missed out on discussion of S1 the first time around (and since it's still my favourite series), I love getting the opportunity to talk about it!

I agree about the overall ambivalence to the strength of the episode, although I fall somewhat on the other end of the scale - it's one I always enjoy when I watch, but except for a few moments or lines, it's not one that comes quickly to mind when I think about the series; some of it is that it's buried in amongst some truly first-rate episodes, but some of it is that it's a little...thin. I think part of that is the unwillingness to take hold of the moral dilemma, which I do find fascinating (in the abstract, Gelth manipulation aside, I side with the Doctor on this one).

With Dickens, I rather like the idea of him being reinvigorated and revitalized by his adventure with the Doctor. He was old and tired at the time and didn't like doing these speaking tours very much at this stage of the game, at least from what I've read, so it worked for me - and I'm not much of a Simon Callow fan. I loved the Doctor's fanboying (to be honest, I like Eccleston's better than Tennant's, but that's probably because Tennant usually irritates me when he's being energetic and babbling), but I particularly loved it because he threw the criticism in there. It's a joke and it's brief but to me it signals, "Critical thinker, not easily confuzzled." Other Doctors have not always convinced me of this.

Eve Myles made a very strong impression on me in this. Gwyneth felt genuinely period to me, which is very difficult for many young actresses (I have to say, I don't think Billie Piper is nearly as good at it, nor was Naomi Watts in some of her early work). I liked that she had her own sense of morality, her religion grounded her, and she was a lot smarter than Rose gave her credit for. I remember being surprised that they'd give Rose such a little slap on the wrist as the show's heroine - but later, I came to wish they'd done a bit more of that. It was a very useful lesson about assumption.

Rose's dress does not flatter Billie Piper's figure, and is kind of slutty for the period, so I do think it's an unwise choice. I have heard that the BBC bigwigs didn't want her in period dress after that (I think that's overreacting and/or plain silly, but that could explain its rarity - that dress wasn't as unflattering as that denim overall thing in T&C). I was rather charmed by the running jumper gag because of the Doctor's genuine exasperation on, "What is wrong with this jumper?"

I liked the way we're introduced to the enormity of the Doctor's guilt over the Time War through the back door, as it were. Eccleston's performance is so beautifully judged over the entire arc - I remember thinking he might be a little too desperate with the Nestene Consciousness for the tone of "Rose" - only to realize in retrospect, this was just a crack showing us how desperate he really was. Together with the desolation in his eyes when Rose turns him down the first time, "Rose" turns out to be a much darker episode from the Doctor than it seems on first viewing.

The play between Rose and the Doctor is beautiful. Eccleston and Piper just have this weirdly innocent, yet extremely charged eroticism that's in full force in that lovely opening conversation about time. Sometimes, I think Rose is even ahead of him on the curve - she looks like she's about to jump him when she says "better with two", and that little hesitation before her big grin and their linking hands in the dungeon always reads to me like her heart stopped for a moment because she's thinking, "Oh, God, he feels the same way." There's almost relief in her smile.

Stopping before I overrun the comment limit.

Part 1: Dickens and the Victorian Age

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Since I missed out on discussion of S1 the first time around (and since it's still my favourite series), I love getting the opportunity to talk about it!

Me too! Series 2 was well under way before I discovered series 1, and I've always wanted a chance to talk about it.

I particularly loved it because he threw the criticism in there. It's a joke and it's brief but to me it signals, "Critical thinker, not easily confuzzled."

Yes, that was a bit of it that I liked, too. That's the way the Doctor shoudl be. I suppose I wished they'd picked a more upbeat, sympathetic part of Dickens' life to look at. But yes, I love it that the Doctor loves Dickens but has his moments of puzzlement - it's like Ten saying to Shakespeare, "But why did you write Titus Andronicus?" and then hearing what Shakespeare had to say. I love the look on Dickens' face when the Doctor says he laughed at the death of Little Nell! A nice contrast of the Victorian attitude and the modern. A place where that didn't work was when Rose kissed Dickens' on the cheek and he said, "How modern!" I think of Victorian girls as kissing people on the cheek all the time, both in and out of Dickens (think of Leigh Hunt's "Jenny Kissed Me"), including crusty old gentlemen who are charmed by it.

I liked that she had her own sense of morality, her religion grounded her, and she was a lot smarter than Rose gave her credit for.

I liked that, too.

I have heard that the BBC bigwigs didn't want her in period dress after that

I can imagine period dresses Rose would have been gorgeous in. And I'd have loved to have seen it! Sometimes I wonder what the BBC costume designers are thinking. I don't see who did costume design for this episode - I'd be in favour of a firing squad, myself! - but I suppose ultimate credit/blame goes to Euros Lyn for the look of it.

I liked the jumper gag, too. Especially since I think that outfit looks great on Christopher Eccleston! (I liked it on David Tennant, too.)

I liked the way we're introduced to the enormity of the Doctor's guilt over the Time War through the back door, as it were.

Yes. That was something I didn't get the first time - I didn't see what a huge wound this was in his psyche. It looks much better now that I understand it, and we've seen over and over again that it's his weak spot - a trigger for both pain and bad judgement. (Or at least unclear judgement.)

I remember thinking he might be a little too desperate with the Nestene Consciousness for the tone of "Rose" - only to realize in retrospect, this was just a crack showing us how desperate he really was.

Yes. It's subtly done and doesn't even make sense the first time through, but it builds right through the storyline, episode by episode - first to the climax in "The Parting of the Ways", but then onward to "The Last of the Time Lords". Brilliantly done - and that fact that it's underplayed (except for the climactic bits) makes it all the more convincing and moving when it does escalate.

Together with the desolation in his eyes when Rose turns him down the first time, "Rose" turns out to be a much darker episode from the Doctor than it seems on first viewing.

Yes. It's a case of 'what is essential is invisible to the eye' - the actual story of the episode is trivial compared to the background underlying it that at that point we don't even know about. And the Doctor says to Rose several times and in different ways, "There is so much going on that you humans don't even know about," and little by little we get to see the truth of that - both on the macrocosmic scale of universes and races being destroyed, and on the microcosmic scale of what it means emotionally for the Doctor and how he deals with it.

Re: Part 2: the Doctor and Rose

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Eccleston and Piper just have this weirdly innocent, yet extremely charged eroticism

What an excellent way to describe it! Yes.

Sometimes, I think Rose is even ahead of him on the curve - she looks like she's about to jump him when she says "better with two"

I think he has different levels of denial going on - all part of the 'lonely god' mindset and the trauma of the Time War. Rose, on the other hand, is (from her point of view) just a girl meeting a fascinating guy, and the more she learns about him the more amazing and different he is, and that's sexy. Whatever issues she has in her past (her father's death, Jimmy Stone, Mickey, Jackie's boyfriends), the Doctor has all the attributes that are most calculated to fascinate her, including his being different from anyone she has ever known.

that little hesitation before her big grin and their linking hands in the dungeon always reads to me like her heart stopped for a moment because she's thinking, "Oh, God, he feels the same way." There's almost relief in her smile.

Yes. In numerous ways - which I plan to examine a little more closely - I think the story of the Doctor and Rose may be the best depiction of a love story I've ever seen on television, and it's because of bits of acting and dialogue like this.

Stopping before I overrun the comment limit.

You can always comment twice, you know. I'm enjoying this.

Re: Part 1: Dickens and the Victorian Age

[nina-ds.livejournal.com]

I love the look on Dickens' face when the Doctor says he laughed at the death of Little Nell! A nice contrast of the Victorian attitude and the modern.

I liked the turn on Oscar Wilde's comment “one must have a heart of stone to read the death of Little Nell without laughing.” The phrasing of it was very Nine, I thought, "Go on, do the death of Little Nell, it cracks me up!" I agree with you about the kiss on the cheek, though. I thought that was fairly appropriate behaviour - now, going into the "shed" with a man who isn't your husband, the both of you exchanging extremely "intentional" looks...that would be very modern. The funny thing about the Victorians is that (like the 1950s, and even now in some places), the repression of sexuality was carrying on at the surface of a culture that was seething with sexual experimentation and shifts in attitudes that explode to the surface somewhat later, in the 1920s and 1960s, for example.

I suppose ultimate credit/blame goes to Euros Lyn for the look of it.

On the whole, I have to say, he's one of my favourite directors. He certainly creates the most visually distinctive episodes, and in S2, he was the only director who was able to put some brakes on Tennant's worst excesses. I think he's generally quite good at sustaining tone. But that dress for Rose was a definite miss - OTOH, the design/costuming for Jabe in EOTW is still the best thing they've come up with in the entirety of 40 years of DW, IMO! And that was also on his watch, so I suppose it evens out.

I liked the jumper gag, too. Especially since I think that outfit looks great on Christopher Eccleston! (I liked it on David Tennant, too.)

Yeah, I don't generally find Tennant attractive (it has more to do with personality and expression than actual looks, I think), but I will say, there were a couple of moments in the black that worked quite well. But the jeans-jumper-jacket combo was perfect for Eccleston's stripped down look and his physical intensity. I read a description from the make-up guy who said that getting CE ready was like trying to groom a whippet. It was impossible to get him to sit still for more than five minutes, and I can only imagine - even when he's still, there's so much potential energy there, he practically vibrates. I was almost shocked by the moment in this icon in EOTW simply because I didn't think he was capable of relaxing that much!

As for the undercurrents that gradually emerge in S1, I think that played so well to Eccleston's strengths as an actor. He is so extremely good at creating a whole character and giving you tiny glimpses of things that may not even register at the time, but make so much sense later on. We obviously get lots of insight into the impact of the Time War on Nine even before we know there was one, but one of my favourites is a tiny little moment he did in Heroes, just a sudden flash of pain and surprise in his eyes when Peter mentioned "this girl in Texas" to Claude.

[teenygozer.livejournal.com]

Excellent review! Loved all the background info you are sharing and the lines you've drawn between the ep and Torchwood. I had no idea Gwyneth and Gwen where one and the same actress!

I have to say, Dickens is the ONE writer I wish I'd never read a bio on. Would that I could have continued on in blissful ignorance. Apparently he was something of an asshat, especially later in life when he started buying into his own PR. So the characterization, warts & all, worked for me. I'm going to assume the writer and/or the actor did their homework on the man.

I agree, it would have been nice for the Doctor to change his outfit to fit in more with the era, since Rose made the effort. I'd have given a lot to see him in a velvet frock coat, but what are ya gonna do? And it is a terribly Romantic episode, with lovely, romantic lines.

I think the thing that threw me out of the episode -- the thing that seemed the most "off" to me -- was the callousness of the undertaker, and Gwen as well to a certain extent. It seemed so odd to me that they would be so casual about the murders of his customers that way! The son of the old woman is killed horribly by his zombie-mom, and all the undertaker could think about was covering it up. If he ran for the hills in terror and never set foot in that house again, or migrated to Australia whilst in deep denial, I'd understand that, but to continue living in a deadly house and allowing the "ghosts" to bump people off w/o trying to stop it or closing the place down, all to keep the business going -- that I don't get. I could fan-wank Gwen's behavior because people tend to do what authority figures tell them to do, and a maid wouldn't have many choices of what she could do in life -- like a woman sticking with an abusive husband when the only other choice is life on the street. But to a large extent, their reactions seemed like a plot device to me, like scripted characters and not the way real people would react. How many people would it take to get those two to react reasonably? What if the old woman's family had showed up to pay their respects and the entire party of a dozen people or more was killed by the corpse, would that have been enough to get these two to stop covering it up and start looking for help or at least getting the heck out of there? They were freakishly okay with kidnapping a woman off the street, too. There was no way that wasn't going to end in anything other than death and horror. I never really bought into the way we were supposed to feel just awful that Gwen had died because of this.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Excellent review!

Thank you!

I had no idea Gwyneth and Gwen where one and the same actress!

I find it amazing that they come across as so different - even though they have the same Welsh accent. But the intonation is still different. I'm not sure if I'd have known it was Eve Myles if I hadn't known beforehand. The attributes I think of as being typically Eve Myles when I see her as Gwen - the distinctive teeth and the big eyes - aren't even noticeable with Gwyneth.

Yes, I think the writer did his homework and Dickens, and I wish they'd found another spin on him. Because they can't go into the biographical details, we just get the echoes - an impression - without much clarity. An implied happy ending, but for what? It's like getting the resolution without the set-up. I'd rather they'd used another writer, or someone entirely different.

I'd have given a lot to see him in a velvet frock coat, but what are ya gonna do?

Just once? I'd have liked it! And a top hat. Even briefly.

-- the thing that seemed the most "off" to me -- was the callousness of the undertaker, and Gwen as well to a certain extent. It seemed so odd to me that they would be so casual about the murders of his customers that way!

Yes - that didn't seem very realistic. They also didn't as frightened as they might have been - either of the ghosts, or of the law coming after them when their customers turned up dead. This is only one way in which the plot seems thin to me: there's no real follow-up to ghosts and zombies wandering around Cardiff at Christmastime, and the connection between the Gelth and the gas pipes and the gas of human decomposition seemed a little odd to me.

to a large extent, their reactions seemed like a plot device to me

Yes, exactly. Especially since Gwyneth was psychic. And if this was happening more and more - that implies a number of people had already died, aside from the ones that were already corpses. You'd think the law would be all over Mr. Sneed's place long since!

[blessashell.livejournal.com]

Your review was very interesting and well thought out. To be honest, this episode isn't one of my favorites of this season (which is more due to the fact of the quality of the other episodes rather than the lacking in this one), but I did like it for a number of reasons. I actually enjoyed the characterization of Dickens, although I'm not particularly familiar with his actual history, which could be part of the problem. The little gags they had him participate him I thought were funny, but not degrading, and I like the idea of The Doctor giving him a new lease on life. Him walking away laughing after the TARDIS dematerializes is adorable. My favorite line in the episode is probably his "Oh my. I hope this theory will be validated soon. If not...immediately." (I try to stick it into everyday conversation when I can)

I didn't really bond with Gwenyth or Mr. Sneed, but I thought they were developed and portrayed well, or well enough given the amount of time Gatiss had to expand upon them. They just didn't really stick with me very well. (You know what minor character I did adore, though? Raffallo [eek; I don't know how to spell that], the plumber from End of the World. She was fantastic). And I have to say that Gwenyth's sacrifice was rather heartbreaking.

What I really loved, though, was The Doctor/Rose interaction. Gatiss managed to encapsulate everything that their relationship was in this episode in an appropriate, un-forced manner. The subtle flirtation and unspoken attraction, the loyalty to one another, but also Rose's capacity and inclination toward fighting The Doctor if she feels he's doing the wrong thing, and The Doctor's unwillingness to bend his morals even if he is smitten with her. That's one thing that people have pointed out that I didn't really notice before, but in the second series, Rose and The Doctor don't really combat each other very much, and I do miss that a bit. It was nice to see in the first season that they were both very much taken with each other, but that they retained independent psyches and notions and were open to fighting one another despite.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

"Oh my. I hope this theory will be validated soon. If not...immediately."I have to say that Gwenyth's sacrifice was rather heartbreaking.

I agree, but I reacted more to the Doctor's reaction to it (and to his dialogue about it) than to the act itself.

Yes, I agree about your comments on Rose and the Doctor. There was so much to their portrayal there, and their dialogue, much more than meets the eye at first. Many levels. And Rose I think was just getting the hang of dealing with different times and different places - her dialogue with Gwyneth has a whole new and different quality to it - she's really interacting with a person from another time. And enjoying it.

[raissad.livejournal.com]

Simon Callow is an amateur expert on Dickens with a history playing the role. It's why RTD & Co. were so keen to get him...

He has also written extensively about Charles Dickens, whom he has played in a one-man show on stage, The Mystery of Charles Dickens, in the film Hans Christian Andersen: My Life as a Fairytale, and on television several times, including in "The Unquiet Dead", a 2005 episode of the BBC science-fiction series Doctor Who.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Callow

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I can see why they wanted him! There's just no pleasing me, is there? I wanted to see a Dickens who was a little more vibrant - at least at the end of the episode. I didn't think his warmth and understanding shone through.

[rosiespark.livejournal.com]

My thoughts, late and in point form. I do like this episode quite a lot on rewatch, though I remember being too keen on it initially.

- I liked Sneed's air of longsufferingness when confronted with the horrible sight of Mr Redpath's "grandmama" rising from the coffin to strangle him. The inappropriateness of his reaction - more resignation than horror - always makes me laugh. "Gwynneth, get down here. We've got another one" is a good early sign to the audience that this is not the beginning of the story and that something extremely fishy is going on. I think Sneed works well as a character - he's selfish and small-minded and really not very pleasant at all. He threatens to dismiss Gwynneth if she won't go against her conscience and use her psychic powers to try and find the old lady, he may or may not have copped a feel of Rose while she was unconscious but he was certainly quick enough to chloroform her! And he gets his desserts - he's the only main character to get Gelthified, and no-one seems to give him a second thought...

- The violence and disregard for human life that the animated corpse shows - snapping Redpath's neck and knocking Sneed out - should alert us to the fact that the Gelth are not benevolent and angelic, no matter what they say and what the Doctor chooses to believe. But he's got his own reasons for believing that - more on this later.

- I feel that the writers are playing with our uncertainties as much as they are with Rose's - that these mysterious aliens are not necessarily malevolent (they are!), that recycling corpses is a good idea (it isn't, in this particular case, but not for the reasons Rose feels it's wrong).

- Sneed to Gwynneth, "The stiffs are getting lively again". Hee. His lack of respect for the dead, in contrast to his smarmy front with clients: "Not dead, just sleeping," to Mr Redpath. I find Sneed very funny.

- "First left, second right, third on the left, go straight ahead, under the stairs, past the bins, fifth door on your left. Hurry up!" is all the funnier for being delivered in a Northern accent. How I wish I could explore the TARDIS!

- I love the Doctor's unguarded comment to Rose that she looks beautiful, followed by a beat where he realsies what he's said and backtracks slightly with "considering". And I honestly like the way she looks in the dress - how period-appropriate it is, I have no idea, but I agree with the Doctor that she looks good. *g*

- Rose is so full of joy at the start of the episode, it's really quite touching - she's happy to be with the Doctor, I think, and to be magically in the past for the first time. Love the footprint in the snow.

- How funny is it that the revelation that they're in Cardiff is what damps Rose's enthusiasm? Not exactly exotic, is it? Hee. The joke's on Wales, and only a Welsh-produced series could get away with it, I'm thinking!

- I love the running joke about the Doctor's jumper. Especially, on stage:

Dickens, snottily: "Doctor? You look more like a navvy."
Doctor, affronted: "What's wrong with this jumper?"

Makes me think of Captain Jack referring to him as U-boat Captain. *g*

tbc

Unquiet me, part 1

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

though I remember being too keen on it initially.

Do you mean you loved it, or that you weren't so keen on it initially?

I liked Sneed's air of longsufferingness when confronted with the horrible sight of Mr Redpath's "grandmama" rising from the coffin to strangle him. The inappropriateness of his reaction - more resignation than horror - always makes me laugh.

Sneed - and to a lesser extent, Gwyneth - strike me as pastiches of classic Dickens characters. Not any particular character, but the kind of offbeat 'type' he liked to feature - the kindly old undertaker, the shy servant girl, the conniving old lech with a mild exterior, the innocent who was prey to evil forces. Even the name "Sneed" sound Dickensian to me, like Squeers or Steerforth or something.

But I can't make up my mind whether I think (in Dickensian terms) Sneed is the sweet but doddering fool caught up in something he doesn't understand, or the evil old lech out to take advantage of a bad situation. Likewise, I can't tell whether Gwyneth is victimized for her weaknesses, or heroic for her strengths. The latter, I think, but it doesn't entirely come off - not till we see, through the Doctor's eyes, that she has died to save the world.

Maybe if I could read the tone of these characters better, I'd enjoy the episode more, because they are extremely significant to the plot.

he may or may not have copped a feel of Rose while she was unconscious

What, you think Rose lied about that? I think he certainly did!

he gets his desserts - he's the only main character to get Gelthified, and no-one seems to give him a second thought...

Yes, so I rather wish there was less of the 'sweet old fool' about him, and a little less initial comedy - I'd like to be able to dislike him more.

The violence and disregard for human life that the animated corpse shows - snapping Redpath's neck and knocking Sneed out - should alert us to the fact that the Gelth are not benevolent and angelic, no matter what they say

Good point. We saw that initial murder, but the Doctor and Rose didn't, I think. If the Doctor had known, I'm sure he wouldn't have been fooled.

I find Sneed very funny.

Yes. The more you point these things out, the more I think it was another Dickensian archetype they're lampooning and using here - the Victorian hypocrite.

tbc

Re: Unquiet me, part 1

[rosiespark.livejournal.com]

Do you mean you loved it, or that you weren't so keen on it initially?

Um, there was a missing "not". i.e.e I wasn't too keen on itinitially but now appreciate the subtleties of what's going on and really enjoy the episode.

But I can't make up my mind whether I think (in Dickensian terms) Sneed is the sweet but doddering fool caught up in something he doesn't understand, or the evil old lech out to take advantage of a bad situation.

I'm not familiar with Dickensian archetypes, but I don't think Sneed's sweet AT ALL, or doddering - he is a hypocrite, as you say at the end of your comment, and that's why I find him funny. But he's a pretty nasty piece of work, really, and I'm sure I wouldn't find him funny in real life...

I rather wish there was less of the 'sweet old fool' about him, and a little less initial comedy - I'd like to be able to dislike him more.

Since I don't see much of the "sweet old fool" about him, I'm perfectly happy to dislike him quite a lot. *g*

still unquiet me, part 2

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

For some reason I think one of the funniest bits of dialogue is when Rose and Gwyneth discuss money:

Rose: ...How much do you get paid?
Gwyneth: Eight pound a year, miss.
Rose: How much?
Gwyneth: I know! I'd've been happy with six!

I don't know what Rose was being paid at Henrick's, but it's a sure bet it was a lot more than that, and that she felt herself underpaid!

Though it's interesting here that (a) Rose jumps to the initial conclusion that Gwyneth is overworked and underpaid, and (b) Gwyneth seems to consider that Rose is a social cut above her - she doesn't assume that Rose is a servant herself. It isn't really relevant - I'm just not sure what social cues we are supposed to think she was following. I would guess that Davies, Gatiss et al don't know and don't care.

I feel that the writers are playing with our uncertainties as much as they are with Rose's

Yes. We're supposed to have forgotten about the murder of Redpath (I did) and to half fall for the Gelth's story. And certainly to be understanding and sympathetic to the Doctor when he falls for their story - he isn't a stupid man, he's a wise one. So why the Gelth have obviously been acting spooky and (potentially) scary, they can't be seen as necessarily bad. It could be like the nanogenes in "The Empty Child", misunderstanding what they are doing to humans, but having good/understandable motives. Unless you think of Mr. Redpath.

How I wish I could explore the TARDIS!

Yes. I wonder what's in the bins? And why are the currents series so stingy about showing us rooms within the TARDIS? I'm not assuming the old series was any better, though the McGann movie showed quite a lot more. I'm just griping because what we do see is so charming I'd like to see more.

Love the footprint in the snow.

Yes. Lovely. Nice boots, too.

The joke's on Wales, and only a Welsh-produced series could get away with it, I'm thinking!

I don't think a show produced anywhere else would have made the same joke. It's a little like Sarah Jane being dumped in Aberdeen when she wanted to be in Croyden.

I love all the jokes about the Doctor's looks, from the beginning of series 1 to the end - short hair, the ears, the navvy, the U-Boat captain, all of it. The accent jokes, too. (Actually I can only think of one - "lots of planets have a north" - but it seems to me there ought to be more.)

I'm glad you found time to post, this is fun.

Re: still unquiet me, part 2

[rosiespark.livejournal.com]

Rose jumps to the initial conclusion that Gwyneth is overworked and underpaid

Gwynneth seems to think she's pretty well off, and it was very kind of Sneed to take her in when her parents died, so perhaps he's not as bad as I thought.

Gwyneth seems to consider that Rose is a social cut above her - she doesn't assume that Rose is a servant herself.

Apart from the clothes, which Gwynneth mentions, I think a lot of it's her attitude. Rose doesn't act like a servant, she acts like someone who deserves respect, which in Gwynneth's eyes would denote Quality.

I wonder what's in the bins?

I wonder how much The Intergalactic Times would pay for the lowdown on the contents of the Doctor's bins? *g*

Is there a reference to the doctor's short hair? Can't think of one. Ears, yes - looking in the mirror in Jackie's living room in Rose, and Nancy teasing him about his ears and nose in The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances.

And "lots of planets have a north" makes a comeback when Rose says it to Jack about the Docto, also in TEC/TDD. Will have to be on the lookout for any other references to the Doctor's accent and appearance!

This IS fun. *g*

[rosiespark.livejournal.com]

- Rose's first word to Gelthified Mr Redpath, who is obviously NOT alright, are, "Are you alright?" Oh Rose! Her kind heart and her concern for others are two of her most endearing qualities.

- Further to the Doctor's glee at Jabe's rudeness last episode ("Wife? partner? concubine? prostitute?" You know, I hadn't noticed how her suggestions get progressively less respectable!), he's grinning like a loon when Rose has a go at Sneed about his hands "having a quick wander, you dirty old man." Go Rose! I think she's even brandishing the poker.

- More gleeful Doctor: Sneed is talking about the problems they've been having with walking corpses and he says, "and then the stiffs - " and there's a disconcerted pause before he corrects himself, "the dear departed" - and the Doctor flashes a really wide grin while Sneed continues - "started getting restless..." He's a hypocrite, yes, because he doesn't really have any respect for the dead but he can't let people see this because grieving relatives would hardly appreciate his callousness. But it's funny when his act slips and he refers to "stiffs" in front of Dickens, Rose and the Doctor.

- Gwynneth handing the Doctor his tea: "Two sugars, sir, just as you like it." That's the first sign that she's been inside his mind, and how he likes his tea's not the only thing she's picked up on. It took me a couple of times watching the episode to realise that the Gelth use her knowledge of the Doctor's past, and specifically his guilt over his role in the Time War, to manipulate him into helping them. Very clever bit of writing.

- yay for leaning Doctor once again! In a doorway again, while Dickens is checking the coffin for concealed strings or wires that he thinks were used to animate the corpses of Mr Redpath and his grandmama.

- I love Rose and Gwynneth bonding in the scullery over talk of hating school and cute boys. Some things never change!

- this episode's Bad Wolf reference: Gwynneth to Rose, "The things you've seen. The Darkness. The Big Bad Wolf." I take it she's seeing Rose's future. And Gwynneth recoils from Rose, which I think is a nice touch.

- "I love a happy medium." I have such a weakness for very bad puns. *g*

- Gwynneth's story is so sad - she lost her parents early, hears "angels" who take advantage of her simplicity and goodness and who betray her to her death, and she still manages to save everyone from "the other side". *sniff*

tbc after I have something to eat, hopefully. Killer day at work. *tired sigh*

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Her kind heart and her concern for others are two of her most endearing qualities.

I like the way that is combined with active courage. If she sees a wrong to right, she'll do it, regardless of risk. Headstrong, but in a heroic way. Compassion without sentimentality.

he's grinning like a loon when Rose has a go at Sneed

He loves it that Rose can and does speak up for herself.

"Two sugars, sir, just as you like it." That's the first sign that she's been inside his mind, and how he likes his tea's not the only thing she's picked up on. It took me a couple of times watching the episode to realise that the Gelth use her knowledge of the Doctor's past, and specifically his guilt over his role in the Time War, to manipulate him into helping them. Very clever bit of writing.

Yes, and never explained in any annoyingly pointless bit of exposition. If you don't think about it, it slides right by. You might think, "Lucky for the Gelth that the Doctor has a huge guilt over the Time War" - well, no, it isn't just luck, they've manipulated the situation and probably even timed their offensive to it. (After all, they've been around in the walls for a while, looking for their chance. This is their chance.)

talk of hating school and cute boys. Some things never change!

I don't know how old Gwyneth is supposed to be but it's one of those scenes that reminds me that Rose isn't very old - mature, but not experienced. (and of course I can relatae - I hated school, too.)

"The things you've seen. The Darkness. The Big Bad Wolf." I take it she's seeing Rose's future. And Gwynneth recoils from Rose, which I think is a nice touch.

Yes, I see that as being Gwyneth seeing Rose's whole future, seeing what she's going to do. I also like the use of the word "darkness" (and its ambiguous connection with death) in both Doctor Who and Torchwood.

I have such a weakness for very bad puns. *

I don't usually, but when the Doctor does it... my weakness is for the Doctor.

Gwynneth's story is so sad

I love the way the Doctor respects her courage in the end.

[rosiespark.livejournal.com]

- The Gelth's manipulation of the Doctor is really very clever: "The last of our kind, we face extinction." "The Time War - the whole universe convulsed. We're trapped in this gaseous state." "We want to stand tall, to feel the sunlight, to live again."

- The Doctor and Rose have another clash of world-views. The Doctor: "It's like recycling." Hee. Rose still maintains that it's wrong, and the Doctor does attempt to make her understand, bless him. And the irony is that Rose is right not to want the Gelth to be allowed to inhabit corpses, but her reasons are wrong. And the Doctor's judgement is clouded and he's blind to the risks involved because the Gelth have invoked the Time War and his role in that is not something he can be rational about, so he makes an error of judgement and almost brings about the end of the human race. Oops.

- I love the concern that the Doctor shows for Rose during their disagreement about using Gwynneth and the corpses. He's inflexible about what he feels has to be done, but his voice gets softer when he sees that Rose is upset. And his "Do you carry a donor card?" is an honest attempt to make her see it the way he does.

- "I think it's gone a little bit wrong.". Understatement of the century.

- I like the Doctor's honesty in admitting to Rose that yes, she's most likely going to die, in 1860, before she's even been born. "I'm sorry." There's a real sense of fear, a real possibility that they'll both die. I like it that he's fallible and can make a huge error of judgement, for understandabe reasons, yes, but it's still a potentially fatal mistake.

- When Gwynneth gets out her box of matches and Rose protests, the Doctor holds out his hand to Gwnneth and says, "Leave that to me." His responsibility, and he's ready to sacrifice himself to stop the invasion. Is it any wonder we love him the way we do?

- I like characters who screw things up, badly even, while trying to do the right thing, and who get it that good intentions don't absolve one of responsibility for the outcome of one's actions. Lymond comes to mind, specifically in relation to Eloise's death in the explosion at the convent, which wouldn't have happened if he hadn't been overtrusting with that letter and allowed it to fall into the wrong hands.

- The Mystery of Edwin Drood and the Blue Elementals. Hee. Sounds like a Penny Dreadful!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

The Gelth's manipulation of the Doctor is really very clever: "The last of our kind, we face extinction."

Really hitting hard - ! Showing no mercy. Interesting that the Doctor doesn't know the truth, accepts their word that they were innocent victims of the damage wrought by the Time War. Or, specifically, by his actions in the Time War.

I'm sure sure the 'trapped in a gaseous state thing' really makes any kind of sense, but it doesn't need to. (Still makes me think of the Family of Blood.)

The sunlight - cunning evocation.

Re recycling: another reason for the difference in viewpoint is that the Doctor, as a Time Lord, is used to his own kind of recycling of bodies in regeneration. It isn't using other people's bodies but conceptually it isn't so different.

he makes an error of judgement and almost brings about the end of the human race.

You have several lines, this among them, that make me think again of Captain Jack as a human parallel of the Doctor. I wonder if Rose ever told him about the details of this episode. Or even if the Doctor himself told him.

Understatement of the century

I love that line.

I'm sorry." There's a real sense of fear, a real possibility that they'll both die.

Another thing I love about this show in general. The stakes are real. There are cheap ways out sometimes - but the emotional level is real. And the Doctor is good, but he isn't infallible. (He's also, thank goodness, not a screw-up like the Torchwood team.)

Is it any wonder we love him the way we do?

None at all. Of course I was totally smitten.

I like characters who screw things up, badly even, while trying to do the right thing, and who get it that good intentions don't absolve one of responsibility for the outcome of one's actions.

Absolutely. It's part of the scale - the action isn't cheap, events have moral/practical consequences, and even if some deus ex machina solves everything at the last moment the responsibility and guilt is always real.

Lymond comes to mind, specifically in relation to Eloise's death in the explosion at the convent,

Again the first character I thought of (in the Doctor Who context) was Jack and his nanogenes, but yes, it's a characteristic of many of my favourite heroes, from Miles or Aral Vorkosigan to King Arthur. Errors and mistakes with dire consequences. I also like the converse - the lies and con jobs that end up saving the day in ways their initiator didn't intend, usually with terrible risk and danger in the interim.

The Mystery of Edwin Drood and the Blue Elementals

I want to read it!

[rosiespark.livejournal.com]

Interesting to see Eve Myles play Gwyneth.

Yes, wasn't it?!

She doesn't remind me of Gwen Cooper, which is a sign of Eve Myles' grasp of characterization.

Which is as it should be, since they're very different characters. But I'm very impressed!

At the same time, I don't find Gwyneth very interesting. I do like her private conversation with Rose about the butcher boy's bum, but there remains something limited about her - it doesn't seem to me that Gwyneth has much personality.

Hmm. Are you sure you're not doing what Rose does and judging her by your own standards?

Or were they in fact victims of the Time War, just not very nice ones?

I feel quite strongly that they weren't - I don't think they were victims of anything, actually. They were definitely lying about how few of them were left, after all, and I think the whole story was nothing more than a clever pitch to get the Rift opened so that they could invade and take over the planet. But I'm open to other views. :)

There are many clues here to reinforce my belief that the Doctor is already very much in love with Rose, even if he doesn't know what to do about it

I don't think he's even admitted it to himself yet - I think he startles himself with his "you're beautiful" comment, which is why he partly retracts it with "considering." I think he even looks back down at whatever bit of the TARDIS he's tinkering with - engines being so much safer than feelings. Men! Or, rather, 900-year old Time Lords. Same thing. *snort*

Re. the Doctor's insistence that Rose changes her clothes, I think her jeans would have offended Victorian sensibilities - caused a riot, as he puts it - while in the future, especially somewhere like Satellite 5, literally anything goes! And as far as I can remember, they don't travel to the (distant) past again until Ten and Martha's Shakespeare experience, so the issue doesn't arise.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Are you sure you're not doing what Rose does and judging her by your own standards?

I thinking of storytelling terms. It just seems to me that there's not much there with Gwyneth - what we learn about her is all in shorthand. Her dialogue enhances that. Her heroism at the end is wonderful. But I don't get the sense of 'complete personality' that I do with any number of other DW characters - say, Raffallo or Cassandra or Jabe in "The End of the World". I don't like Cassandra, but I think she has scads of personality!

It may be that they're setting us up to think that Gwyneth is a quiet serving girl, and then present her as so much more at the end. Like Rose, on a smaller scale - Rose is a shop girl in "Rose", goddess and world saviour by "The Parting of the Ways". Looking at it that way, yes, I think that's what they were trying to do. Didn't work as well, - at least, not for me.

I don't think he's even admitted it to himself yet - I think he startles himself with his "you're beautiful" comment, which is why he partly retracts it with "considering."

I see it as being, at this point, much more conscious already - I think! I'm not very sure of myself here. But I think it's more that he gave himself away, and then felt the need to retract - he loves her, he knows he loves her - he already knows what she is even though she doesn't know yet. But he has every intention of keeping his feelings to himself. Treat her like any other companion. (Yes, there, I've already proved that I'm in the camp of the DW fans who think Rose is 'special' in a way the others, or most of the others, aren't.)

engines being so much safer than feelings. Men! Or, rather, 900-year old Time Lords. Same thing. *snort*

Oh, absolutely!

in the future, especially somewhere like Satellite 5, literally anything goes!

So it seems! In fact, they have a remarkable number of clothes that would look just fine in 2006. Funny, that. But I like it much more than the old Star Trek style of designing weird futuristic clothes that make everyone just look strange.

I don't recall what Rose wore in ancient Rome in "The Stone Rose". My knowlege of canon and semi-canon is small. Interesting that in "The Shakespeare Code", the Doctor makes a point that Martha doesn't need to change her clothes, just to act self-confident about her looks and she'll get by.

Still, I love historical costumes and historical settings, so I wish we got to see it more.

Rose was dressed inappropriately for Victorian times in "Tooth and Claw" and that became a plot point, with Rose as the feral 'puir naked lassie' or whatever it was. And it was accidental - they'd been aiming for 1979 (or was it 1989?). Not that I think Rose looked appropriate for 1979 either but it wouldn't be a big deal.

[monsieureden.livejournal.com]

I'm going to be bouncing into your old Dr. Who entries now that I'm watching it. :) I am trying to find the one w/ thoughts on Dalek right now..

I just saw this ep. and agree, it isn't a fave, though I thought the portrayal of Dickens was somewhat accurate to what I read on Dickens back in my undergrad days. At least in his later life... But I am no expert and maybe the elderly photos of him (in shows I've seen and books I've read) gives him a cynical look.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you're finding my old Doctor Who entries.

Dickens is probably accurate enough, but I didn't really like the performance or the way his part was written. Not a big deal.

This episode is the significant introduction to the Cardiff Rift, which you'll hear about again.

[monsieureden.livejournal.com]

PS I wish the Doctor had at least donned a top hat!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I wish the Doctor had at least donned a top hat!

Would have been cute! There are pictures online of Christopher Eccleston in a top hat... and he is cute.

See:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/__bXaa88_ls4/RzH_KxOpeMI/AAAAAAAAALg/_5g5w8g7GFw/9th.jpg

But he wouldn't do it here because - and I don't know if this was the same in the 'classic' Doctor Who episodes, but I think so - each Doctor has a characteristic outfit that he doesn't change, regardless of what era he is in. There's a scene where Ten wears a paper party hat, and another where he wears a bandana - and he puts on a tux when it seems appropriate - but that's is. It's part of his philosophy that if you act as if you fit in, you will. Regardless.