Doctor Who: "The Unquiet Dead"

[fajrdrako]

rosiespark and I have been discussing series 1 Doctor Who episode by episode. I started off with Rose, she followed up with The End of the World, and now it's my turn again here with The Unquiet Dead.

I might as well confess at the outset that "The Unquiet Dead" is my least favourite of all the episodes of Doctor Who I have seen. I can't entirely put my finger on why, though I think there are four reasons - five, maybe - all of which can be summed up as "Mark Gatiss' writing style". The fact that he himself refers to "the morbid, ebony-black grotesqueness of the nineteenth century" is not a good sign for his approach. I'll try not to dwell on the negative, because watching this again, I still enjoyed myself - it doesn't annoy me, or bore me, or make me want to watch something else instead. I still love the Doctor and Rose in it. It's more that I find the other characters dull and the story fairly weak - not really funny, not really scary.

Breaking it down into aspects:

1. Charles Dickens. I was disappointed by the way Dickens was portrayed. Yes, I know it's my own fannishness coming through here. It isn't that Simon Callow isn't a good actor - I've loved him in other things. It's the concept: Dickens as being old and jaded; or Dickens as a skeptic, despite the evidence of his own eyes; Dickens as a foil to the Doctor. I'd like to see him as smarter, snappier, wittier.
   
   On the plus side, I did love it that the Doctor is a fan, and happy to say so. (Despite Martin Chuzzelwit.) His fannishness didn't come across with the sincerity I saw in David Tennant's performance of the Doctor facing Shakespeare in The Shakespeare Code, and he seemed a little too willing to criticize Dickens.... If I were an eight year old who didn't know anything about Dickens, I wouldn't have been left thinking highly of Dickens from this.
   
   My favourite of his lines: "What phantasmagoria is this?"



2. The Story. The plot doesn't entirely make sense to me, though it's intriguing. I'm not very fond of Mark Gatiss' understated writing style; his characters seem to me a little smaller than life.
   
   But there are some aspects of the story I do like. One is the continuity between this episode and Torchwood; the Rift goes right through Sneed's house - does that mean his house was right on the site of what later became Roald Dahl Plass, with the fountain and the Millennium Centre? I like that. But the story implies that it has been only the Gelth trying to get through the Rift for many, many years - perhaps they blocked the entryway? When the Gelth say, "Open the Rift!" I thought of Bilis - and Owen. And when the Doctor said, "The Rift is getting wider," I thought; "That line was stolen from Torchwood!" Though I suppose it's really the other way round.
   
   As far as I know, this is the only episode of Doctor Who with a psychic character, aside from the Doctor himself.
   
   The Gelth reminded me of the Family in "Human Nature" and "The Family of Blood", except that they inhabit the living, while the Gelth favour corpses. Because of the gas. The gas connections weren't entirely convincing to me; but that's okay, it wouldn't be the only Doctor Who villains who didn't entirely make sense to me.



3. Interesting to see Eve Myles play Gwyneth. She doesn't remind me of Gwen Cooper, which is a sign of Eve Myles' grasp of characterization. At the same time, I don't find Gwyneth very interesting. I do like her private conversation with Rose about the butcher boy's bum, but there remains something limited about her - it doesn't seem to me that Gwyneth has much personality.
   
   I love it that she mentioned "bad wolf".



4. Again, I love it that the Gelth mentioned the Time War - a phrase calculated to trigger the Doctor's sense of concern and guilt. Did they know that? What, then, did they know of the Doctor? Were they using a psychic conduit trick, through Gwyneth, to know what phrase to use? Or were they in fact victims of the Time War, just not very nice ones?



5. There are many clues here to reinforce my belief that the Doctor is already very much in love with Rose, even if he doesn't know what to do about it - except feel guilty. Is there any other point at which he says she's beautiful?



6. I might add that I think Rose has a beautiful personality, but I thought she looked awful in that dress and bonnet. The boots were good. I loved the boots.



7. The voices of the Gelth sounded like the fairies in "Small Worlds" and the petal-aliens in "Fear Her". Are there no other ways to do group-personality aliens?



8. Interesting that Rose thinks the bodies of the dead should be respected, and the Doctor doesn't. Is it that he thinks the needs of the living outweigh the needs of the dead? This episode skirts on some life and death issues that are very interesting, but never quite comes to grips with the articulation of any of them. It isn't that this is beyond the scope of a kid's show, since other episodes do it well. It's more that this particular episodes hints at meanings and then backs off.



9. The best thing about this episode was its discussion of time. There are some terrific quotes. For example:

   Rose: Think about it, though. Christmas 1860 happens once, just once, and then it's finished. It's gone, it'll never happen again. Except for you. You can go back and see days that are dead and gone. A hundred thousand sunsets ago. No wonder you never stay still.

   And despite my rude comments about Mark Gatiss a while back, I think that is a beautifully written passage, both for content and wording: a hundred thousand sunsets. It says a lot about Rose, and he intelligence and insight, not to mention her sense of beauty. It also conveys something about the Doctor himself; his sense of priorities, the way they dovetail with hers.
   
   I wonder, though: "You can go back and see days that are dead and gone." I assume he can't go back to the same day over and over - no Groundhog Day here? Or can he? Captain Jack implies he has gone back to Volcano Day and the Blitz more than once - is he carefully trying to avoid himself all the time, or is the timeline more complicated than that?



10. Other good aspects about that scene: the Doctor says, "Give the man a medal. Earth. Naples. December 24th, 1860." But it turns out it isn't. Presumably the controls on the TARDIS aren't very accurate. Or is the TARDIS lying to him? I like the notion that the TARDIS sees and finds its own trouble spots, and might have spotted the problem with the Rift and the Gelth from afar. Or maybe the TARDIS was trying to keep them out of trouble - it was clear that the Doctor hadn't a clue what was happening in Naples on Christmas Eve, 1860, but it seems to me that around that time Garibaldi was advancing on the city with his armies of liberation. The TARDIS might have been trying to keep them out of a war zone. - Oh, I just noticed: Garibaldi and those soldiers were actually in an early draft of this story. Heh.



11. And the following phrase strikes me as utterly romantic:

    Rose: ...It's Christmas.
    The Doctor: All yours.

    Which, in keeping with the overt tone of the show, is said lightly, but really has depths and layers: he's making a gift to her of time and space. Or, in fact, this time and this space, in all its unique specialness which she articulates so perfectly. And then the punchline, after her speech:

    The Doctor: Not a bad life.
    Rose: Better with two.

    ...And I can't help thinking, what perfect articulation of romance, or Romance with a capital R, worthy of the greatest of poets and writers, and delivered subtly and casually in a somewhat macabre horror story written so as not to bore the 8 year olds.
    
    This is echoed by the heroic dialogue later on:

    Rose: But we'll go down fighting, yeah?
    The Doctor: You bet.
    Rose: Together.
    The Doctor: Yeah. I'm glad I met you.
    Rose: Me too.

    It's anyone's guess as to the levels of self-awareness there, at least on Rose's part.



12. I love it that the Doctor calls Rose "Barbarella". But does he worry about what she wears in other episodes? Do fashion choices only matter in connection with the past, not the future? Personally I wish he'd dressed in some elegant fashion of 1860 because he's look terrific, but I like the way Nine dressed anyway. No complaints about that jumper from me.

Comments

Re: series 3 and the Last of the Time Lords... part 2

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I think the Doctor-and-Companion dynamic skews the balance a little in terms of relationships - whatever they do, the Doctor is the central figure and the companion is the sidekick. I don't think the manner of their parting particularly affects this, nor does the gender distribution, and I'd rather think of them as loving each other than not. I did think Rose got more credit for her accomplishments (and her loyalty) than Martha did. And certainly more than Jack, who was discarded by the wayside!

we got no reaction to her realization of what she'd done (and perhaps the memory of Nine's sacrifice).

The theme was dropped, except to (somewhat inexplicably) turn up in the twelfth episode of Torchwood. It gave a good structure to series 1, working up to a very satisfying climax. Torchwood as a theme in series 2 was fun, but not so much part of the structure as glimpses of historical progression - out of order, of course.

The thing that frustrates me is that I thought we were going to get that with Martha.

Yes. I thought we would, and should have. I liked it that she loved the Doctor, but, unabashed romantic that I am, I either wanted to see him love her in return, using 'love' in the widest possible application, or no 'crush' at all. As it stands, it simply set up my disappointment - and added to my negative interpretation of the Doctor.

I had mixed feelings about Donna; she was both entertaining and annoying. By the end of "The Runaway Bride" I was glad to see the last of her, but I do think there is potential there, and my reaction to the only publicity photo I've seen of her for series 4 was a positive one. So... I hope for the best. But it's hard for me to accept that I have to forego clever, beautiful, brave Martha for the shrill, comical, not-so-bright Donna!

I suppose it's also a little more intense for me because I don't find Ten charming or heroic.

The fact that I find him attractive (not physically, but in terms of dialogue and general personality) adds a certain emotional tension - in any given scene will he charm me or squick me? I used to have only faith. (Like Jack - "Never doubted him, never will.") Now there's an added dimension to the suspense.

Now, this only really became a problem for me as of "The Last of the Time Lords". I hope I can recover my confidence.

they can still pull out a HN/FOB or Blink, and I don't want to miss those!

Absolutely not.

Re: series 3 and the Last of the Time Lords... part 2

[nina-ds.livejournal.com]

I think the Doctor-and-Companion dynamic skews the balance a little in terms of relationships - whatever they do, the Doctor is the central figure and the companion is the sidekick. I don't think the manner of their parting particularly affects this, nor does the gender distribution, and I'd rather think of them as loving each other than not.

There are two reasons why the (apparent) age gap has never bugged me one bit; first, I've always gone for older men myself. Even when I was 11, my first TV crush was on a man playing a dad. I like a guy who's mastered puberty! I may notice someone earlier if they're exceptional, although then it's kind of "I can't wait until he grows up!" It's not the physical aspect so much, all though that does have some impact, it's mostly the emotional maturity, the gravity, the sense of self that I find attractive, and you rarely see a guy under 30 whose got that. The actors that I named before are examples, and I know a couple in RL, but they're rare.

The other thing is the sheer scale of a 900-year-old being. When looked at from that perspective, it doesn't matter if the human is 19 or 90, s/he is still a child in comparison. And for Nine, particularly, so damaged by the weight of the war, I would argue that he needed the innocence and openness to wonder of someone like Rose. When he became less mature in behaviour and outlook as Ten, then it didn't click so well, and perhaps he really needs a Donna to keep him from imploding.

It's not necessarily the leaving, but the way of parting that I see as different. I can still argue that Jack and Martha love the Doctor, but they've not lost themselves in him to the point that they can't see they need to step back. Our last view of Rose is sobbing on a beach; Martha was doing well until she came back to say, "That heavy handed metaphor I just told you. Well, really, my friend was me, and I love you." It's a little pathetic, and I don't like seeing Martha do that, especially as she had just gone around the world for a year, preaching his gospel (ack! ick!) and didn't get much more than a faintly grudging "Thanks". When she pokes him and says, "I am good," the very least he could have said was, "Quite right, too." That's an echo I would have liked.

I liked it that she loved the Doctor, but, unabashed romantic that I am, I either wanted to see him love her in return, using 'love' in the widest possible application, or no 'crush' at all. As it stands, it simply set up my disappointment - and added to my negative interpretation of the Doctor.

Yes. Sigh. It's the crush part that I find so depressing. It's so juvenile. Not that 24-year-old smart people can't act that way, but I wanted her to pull out of it and realize that he really wasn't boyfriend material, at least not as she was conceiving of it, but she never really did. That's the sort of loss of identity/awareness that bothers me in female characters, because it's so regressive. It's part of why I couldn't quite connect with Martha the way I did (immediately) with Rose or (over the course of the episode) with Donna. In reality, I'm far more like Martha than either of the others, but the performance may also have had to do with it. Freema's a lovely personality, but she's still pretty inexperienced as an actress, and sometimes it shows, for instance in the storytelling sequences of LOTL. I really liked her when she was angry - the bones of the hand, and - my favourite Martha moment of all - she leaned into the Doctor's frame in the Blink Easter egg and complained that she had to do all the work. That's the Martha I wanted.

Re: series 3 and the Last of the Time Lords... part 2

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I happen to love the age gap - whether it's between Jack and Ianto, or the Doctor and the companions, or any other venue where one finds it. (Name any romance novel where the protagonists are not equal in age.) I like the ways it adds difference to the personalities. And like you, I have always preferred older men, so it's never been difficult for me to appreciate that in fiction. Not that I mind relationships where the ages are equal - it's all good, just in different ways.

So I didn't mean to imply that was a problem. Just that it's a difference that affects the dynamic: the Doctor will always have had more experience and knowledge than his Companions. (Except when he picks up other Time Lords as Companions.)

I agree that the youthful-innocence-and-enthusiasm of Rose worked well with Nine. (Everything worked well with Nine.)

I can still argue that Jack and Martha love the Doctor, but they've not lost themselves in him to the point that they can't see they need to step back.

I'm not sure what you mean here. They did step back. I wanted to see more resolution with the Doctor before they did that. As it happens, I'll just have to imagine it. It doesn't change the story, just the attitudes.

When she pokes him and says, "I am good," the very least he could have said was, "Quite right, too." That's an echo I would have liked.


Yes, that is exactly what I wanted. I did get it at the end of "The Lazarus Experiment" - "you were never just a passenger". But there was no follow-up to that. Which is why I call Davies a tease. He gives and he takes away.

Sigh. It's the crush part that I find so depressing.

I don't like the word 'crush'. I never use it. She doesn't have a crush on him; she loves him truly and deeply. And deals with it. It isn't juvenile. It could happen at any age. (As with Sarah Jane Smith, who loved him too, and dealt with it.) To dismiss him as 'not boyfriend' material is ridiculous, he isn't like a date who might take her to the prom. She wouldn't even want that if the circumstances were appropriate. It's a relationship-dynamic that is totally outside the box of anything we have in our society's social dynamic that there aren't even words for it. To see her as a young woman with a crush is misreading her entirely.

In my opinion.

(Remember also that I believe the Doctor does love her, but would rather relive the Time War than admit it. For, possibly, good reasons.)

age gap and relationship

[nina-ds.livejournal.com]

So I didn't mean to imply that was a problem.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were implying that! That was one of those moments where I skipped immediately to thinking of all the fans whose response is that Rose could have never have been interested in some one who looked old enough to be her father (rather amusing, actually, given BP's personal history!). I actually did get into a discussion about that with someone on T&C, who was very assertive that a 19-year-old would think it was distasteful and icky, because she sure did. The fact that I didn't feel the same way when I was 19 didn't count, apparently. And according to her, Rose showed no interest in the Doctor until he was cute and foxy and Ten. It left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth, as you can probably tell!

I've always thought that relationships don't need to be equal/symmetrical in order to work, but they do need to balance - complementary in the geometric sense. That's one reason Nine and Rose work so beautifully for me, It's not strictly an "opposites attract" thing, but more complex - the jigsaw puzzle pieces need to fit each other.

I have to say, I do read Martha having a crush and not a true, deep love because the balance isn't there for me. I'm fine with that at the beginning, but her character development was so shallow/shaky during the middle part of the series - and then he was such an ass through a lot of the latter part, although there's a big potential gap in Blink - that I can't really see it as a genuinely informed love because she doesn't seem to see him as he truly is. Nor, sadly, does he seem to see her at all. I do think true love can be one-sided, but I haven't been as drawn into Martha's subjectivity as much as I'd have liked. So I think she's attracted, I think she may love him, but for me, it's not convincing me as a well-rounded love. It's not clicking for me, and that's a writing issue more than anything else.

I think the Doctor does love her, but I'm not sure it's in the way she wants. Of course, that's true of Rose, too.

Re: age gap and relationship

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Well, personally, I liked the relationship between Nine and Rose, and I think that if a person is thinking he's old enough to be her father, they're missing the story entirely - he's old enough to be her ancestor from 800 years ago, give or take a century. And this is a girl with father issues! And Christopher Eccleston is incredibly sexy!

So that issue just boils down to personal taste. Personally, I love it that the show gives the impression that "age doesn't matter" in just the way Torchwood gives the impression "gender doesn't matter". I happen to believe both those things.

And yes, I prefer romances where the people involved aren't too much alike.

You think Martha doesn't see the Doctor as he is? I thought she saw him, warts and all, and loved him anyway. And yes, it's all a writing issue. I liked Martha in every way. I thought she was better and more consistently written than the Doctor.

Re: age gap and relationship

[nina-ds.livejournal.com]

And this is a girl with father issues!

I know this is big in fan circles, but I don't know that I think Rose's issues are "issues" - she never knew her father, so it makes sense that she'd be curious; OTOH, I think she had also become the strong one in her relationship with her mother. So I don't think she was looking for a father substitute in the Doctor. In fact, I see her attraction to him more in the line of her running off with the dangerous, rock'n'roll Jimmy Stones, and Mickey was a step back into something "safe". But the instinct is to go with the dangerous, exciting one.

And Christopher Eccleston is incredibly sexy!

Well, yes. There's always that.

Re: age gap and relationship

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I don't know that I think Rose's issues are "issues" - she never knew her father, so it makes sense that she'd be curious

Well, yes - what nuance are you putting on the word 'issues'? I simply mean that she never knew her father, and wishes she had known him. I certainly don't mean that she sees the Doctor as a father figure in any way, but I do think it means that real or apparent age issues don't bother her. I also think it means that she has a certain image of a masculine ideal, and measures (or tries to measure) both Pete and the Doctor by it.

In fact, I see her attraction to him more in the line of her running off with the dangerous, rock'n'roll Jimmy Stones, and Mickey was a step back into something "safe".

I'd say the Doctor was the perfect compromise for her there. He offered her excitement and adventure and danger, but also good character, honesty, and - though Jackie wouldn't have agreed, because she had different standards - stability. Mickey offered safety, familiarity, and boredom.

There's always that.

Works for me. Though perhaps in an unusual way.

Re: age gap and relationship

[nina-ds.livejournal.com]

That's a shot I've never seen in your icon. Love the eyebrows. In pictures like that, you do start to see where the "stunningly handsome" comes from, if you look at the line of his nose down to his lips and cleft chin. I know people make fun of the ears, but honestly, I love them. They're distinctive, and I've never found big ears a problem (neither did Clark Gable; and there's Barack Obama and Roy Marsden as well).

I'm just glad I finally found a solo Claude icon that I like!

what nuance are you putting on the word 'issues'?

Pretty much what you're talking about. Most of the time people trot it out, it's in the context of "Nine is too old for her." Which is not only limited thinking, but just how does it make it better if Ten only looks younger? 900 years, or 902, the Doctor is "too old" for any human. Acting like a teenager just makes him seem like one of those middle-aged guys who drive a sports car. And I do feel that a bit with Ten. He has very little dignity.

I do agree with you on the "safety" issue with Nine. There's something about him that makes you trust him in terms of physical protection - that "come with me" moment with Lynda is rightfully iconic. But Nine also offers an emotional stability that really counts for so much more. At least to me.

Works for me. Though perhaps in an unusual way.

Oh? ::raised eyebrow:: You don't have to answer if you don't want to, but what do you mean?

Re: age gap and relationship

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

know people make fun of the ears, but honestly, I love them.

I do too. I'm really into large noses, but Eccleston's ears are just totally charming. He makes them look like something everyone should want.

I never believe anyone is too old for anyone. May/December relationships - bring 'em on!

I agree that Ten hasn't much dignity most of the time, but I think that's because he doesn't feel the need for dignity. Sometimes I think he shows a lot of dignity. But only sometimes.

that "come with me" moment with Lynda is rightfully iconic.

I don't even like Lynda much, but that scene always chokes me up a little.

...but what do you mean?

I don't remember what I meant! I know I had something in mind when I wrote it.... But Eccleston is sexy, period. I'm sure I had some special aspect of his sexiness in mind when I said that.

Re: age gap and relationship

[nina-ds.livejournal.com]

I'm really into large noses, but Eccleston's ears are just totally charming. He makes them look like something everyone should want.

Me, too, on all of that. I love that he's so proud of them, really, "They remind me who I am when I shave in the morning." I think that's one of the reasons he's so sexy - he's completely comfortable with his body. There is a lot of architectural beauty there, but a lot of it is the way he carries himself and his expressivity.

I never believe anyone is too old for anyone.

I feel the same way - it seems an arbitrary obstacle, like race or gender. The only time I find it squicky is if there's a clear power differential, but then again, you can't always tell what the internal dynamics are. For instance, I think Nine and Rose balance each other beautifully. Ten and Rose bothered me, because I felt like he closed himself off more, and I can't shake the feeling that he was more interested in having her adoration than having her.

I don't even like Lynda much, but that scene always chokes me up a little.

I have a weird relationship with Lynda. I don't particularly like her as a character, but I loved her interaction with the Doctor. I liked who he was with her. And the moment where Eccleston kills me like no other is that momet when he "hears" Lynda's death in PotW. The expression on his face is just...

But Eccleston is sexy, period. I'm sure I had some special aspect of his sexiness in mind when I said that.

;-) There are so many!

Eccleston

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

he's completely comfortable with his body.

I agree absolutely. And so expressive with it.

The only time I find it squicky is if there's a clear power differential, but then again, you can't always tell what the internal dynamics are.

That can be squicky or it can be a plus, depending on context, character, and how it's played. I still don't see it as an age issue - age can affect the power dynamics or not, but is usually secondary to other factors anyway.

Lynda. I don't particularly like her as a character, but I loved her interaction with the Doctor.

I didn't like her interaction with him particularly, but I loved his interaction with her.

the moment where Eccleston kills me like no other is that momet when he "hears" Lynda's death in PotW.

I loved that moment. But he had so many great moments in that episode!