The National Library of Canada...
Aug. 2nd, 2007 07:46 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
I spent most of the afternoon doing research in the National Library of Canada. I've been there before, but not for many years. I used to go when I was an undergraduate at Carleton University, and I remember they made me jump through hoops to get the authorization to go in. I was left thinking it was an elitist place that probably wouldn't let me in.
But, encouraged yesterday by
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I knew the National Library had a copy, because I'd got it once on Interlibrary Loan through the Public Library. (But they wouldn't let me take it home. The nerve.) When I asked for it this morning the library expressed doubt. "We don't usually handle that kind of material," she said. "We're mandated to carry Canadian history, you know." I couldn't tell whether she was dissing my unpatriotic study of European history, or apologizing for the library's insufficiencies. I refrained from saying, "How chauvinistic of you." They did, of course, have the book.
Because it is fragile, I had to read it in room 25, wearing white gloves (which they provided), and use of pens is not allowed. Luckily, I'd put a good pencil into my bag this morning, somewhat by accident rather than good planning.
I luxuriated in the place. I'm used to the Ottawa Public Library - a good place, don't get me wrong, but it's crowded with books and people and the air conditioning seldom seems quite right and the librarians are always busy. In the National Library, there is a hush. The air conditioning is perfect - and that's important, since it was (
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I loved it. I worked until my eyes started to blur and my brain balked at understanding Anglo-Norman and the muscles of my pencil-wielding hand started to ache.
The good part? My card is valid for a whole year.
Makes me feel, if only temporarily, like the real scholar I want to be.
I took some pictures when I was leaving, just for the fun of it.
First,

Besides being a lovely statue, it has a delightful history.


with the entrance to the National Library to the left of the picture.
The person sitting on the bench is real, not part of the sculpture -
she was waiting for someone to pick her up.
no subject
Date: 2007-08-03 02:17 am (UTC)I love that book!
Egad, so do I! And you're the first other person I've met who has read it, though I've known people who have read parts of it. (And may have read the whole thing since I last discussed it with them, I don't know.) Yes, I was able to take it out from the library of King's College when I was studying there - that was wonderful. Much easier there than here.
Forgive my ignorance, but what is a senior thesis? Is that a thesis you have to write to get a B.A.? Or does it mean something else? I thought 'senior' meant last year of high school in the U.S., but I would be surprised if they had you writing about an Anglo-Norman biographical poem in high school.
Once I found out that right after the Chanson de Roland, the most popular boy's names were Roland and Oliver, I was on a roll.
How wonderful! I believe I knew that already - an idea of infinite pleasure. I remember once noticing young males in northern Italy in the 14th century with names like "Arturo" and "Pandragone" because of the popularity of the Arthurian legends. I love it when that happens! Or even just tracing the history of names... the man I am researching, Aimery de Lusignan, was the son of a woman named Burgundia... and then he named his daughter Burgundia. It's such fun to see patterns like that.
I wonder if, in the mid-9th century or whenever it was, there were suddenly a bunch of kids named Beowulf and Grendel?
My thesis was on the feedback loop between secular literature and secular culture
Oh wow. It might be presumptuous of me to ask this, but may I read your thesis? It sounds fascinating. Was this in history or literature or both?
Chretien's Lancelot
I have never read Chretien and I really believe I should. He's smack in the middle of my time and consorted with people I am working on. I should read it soon. I am currently rereading the Lais of Marie de France.
William's life imitated art
It certainly did! He was practically sans peur et sans reproche, and made into the model of the preux chevalier. He's all the more endearing (I think) because sometimes his personal non-typical point of view appears in the text, or his sense of humour. I do like William - even though I've just been reading about him bitterly fighting the guys I'm researching. Have you read the book Georges Duby wrote about him?
no subject
Date: 2007-08-03 03:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-03 08:33 pm (UTC)Oh, how cool!
Is there an edition you'd recommend? is the paperback in English or French?
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Date: 2007-08-03 08:57 pm (UTC)Helen's comments on Perceval are here (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nigel.nicholson/hn/CrusadeFAQs/T_and_G feed.html): she talks about the political allegory in the Grail legends.
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Date: 2007-08-03 09:22 pm (UTC)I'm about to go for a walk (despite the heat) and if I go by a second hand bookstore - i.e., if I get that far - I'll see if they have it. Hard to guess the odds.
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Date: 2007-08-03 09:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-04 12:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-04 01:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-04 03:00 pm (UTC)(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2007-08-03 09:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-03 09:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-03 09:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-04 12:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-04 01:29 pm (UTC)It's most likely that there were miscarriages or children who died in infancy. Another possibility is that some of the marriage contracts were made when the brides were children.
no subject
Date: 2007-08-04 03:42 pm (UTC)LOL!
Another possibility is that some of the marriage contracts were made when the brides were children.
Yes, that makes sense, too. Married at 8 or so - it would make sense for child-bearing not to begin for a decade or more. Thank you, that's a very plausible explanation: it also means, quite sensibly, that if they were married in, say, 1120, they weren't necessarily 20 years old and therefore weren't still bearing children late in their 40s (which looks odd); they could have been a good decade younger.
Moreover, given the uncertainties and warfares of their time, early marriage or betrothal makes good sense too, for military, political, and familiar alliances. I was just reading the perfect example of this in Guillaume le Marechale where a dispute was settled when Earl Patrick's sister Sibile (another Sybilla!) married William's father as part of the political settlement. He age of course is not mentioned, but it's hardly relevant: the families were, as the writer assures us, on good terms from then on.
Obviously this can backfire - we both know a bunch of bad marriages where the situation was either worsened or just not helped by the husband's treatment of the bride. (I'm thinking here of the example of Baldwin I and Adelaide of Sicily, which left the Sicilians resentful for numerous reasons. There are of course other examples.)
no subject
Date: 2007-08-04 04:34 pm (UTC)I can't help but think that the Second Crusade (the 'big family excursion') was organised by all the women getting their heads together so they could have some respite from child-bearing.
Yes, that makes sense, too. Married at 8 or so - it would make sense for child-bearing not to begin for a decade or more. Thank you, that's a very plausible explanation: it also means, quite sensibly, that if they were married in, say, 1120, they weren't necessarily 20 years old and therefore weren't still bearing children late in their 40s (which looks odd); they could have been a good decade younger.
Although a lot of them clearly were bearing children well into their late 40s (as were some of my 19C ancestresses: my youngest great-grand-uncle was born when his Mum was about 46, in the early 1830s). Conrad's parents were both younger children of his grandmothers' second marriages: Gisela and Jutte must have been well over 40 at the time.
I'm thinking here of the example of Baldwin I and Adelaide of Sicily, which left the Sicilians resentful for numerous reasons.
Adelaide was dowager Queen of Sicily. By birth she was Adelaide of Savona/del Vasto, another branch of the Aleramici. She's some sort of cousin of the Montferrats.
no subject
Date: 2007-08-04 05:05 pm (UTC)Not to mention getting the men out from underfoot all the time. Running the households must have been somewhat easier without the menfolk interfering.
a lot of them clearly were bearing children well into their late 40s
Yes, but I was puzzling over the demographics and things make more sense when you postulate early marriages for at least some of them. If only we had more birth dates of women.
She's some sort of cousin of the Montferrats.
I'm tempted to say, "Wasn't everyone?" Very cool!
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From:no subject
Date: 2007-08-03 09:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-04 12:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-04 01:48 pm (UTC)It just appalls me how Conrad has been treated in particular.
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Date: 2007-08-04 02:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-04 03:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-08-04 03:29 pm (UTC)And really, the 'felon' stage where I have currently been reading about them in Guillaume le Marchal, that isn't even just their beginnings, they already had a castle and lands and a certain prestige, and the military clout to take on kings (like Louis) and emperors (like Henri Plantagenet) - just not enough clout to win against them!
no subject
Date: 2007-08-04 04:37 pm (UTC)I think the moral of the story is, don't ruffle the feathers of the big boys… Keep your head down, and go for the pickings after they've beaten someone else up.
no subject
Date: 2007-08-04 06:02 pm (UTC)They probably thought it was the only game in town! But yes, it's quite a challenge to take on the Planatagenets at their height - no wonder a bunch of them decamped to Outremer - fighting Turks must have seemed so much simpler.
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