Mini-rant...

[fajrdrako]

I would be really, really happy if I never read another Jack/Ianto fic in which Jack asks Ianto to stop calling him 'sir'.

Please.

Comments

Re: Part 1

[myfavouriteplum.livejournal.com]

So very true about Ianto chose Jack because he's a contrast of Lisa.

When we first met Jack in Empty Child/Doctor Dances, he's a man who cleans his own mess. And after 'Cyberwoman', Ianto turns out to be his biggest mess. So he cleans it in his own way, his only way--sex is somewhere he feels very safe, and something he feels confident enough to give and take. If by doing this he has created a new problem is another problem...Torchwood should have a motto like 'one mess-up only each day'...

I'd say 9th Doctor/Jack seems far more equal and better balanced than Jack/Ianto. Alongside the Doctor, DW!Jack is an experienced/exotic/morally ambiguous/hard figure himself. He's learning to be a hero, yes, but he has already got all the means that a hero needs in himself. And Rose definitely makes their powers balance better.
The 9th Doctor values DW!Jack's courage and sense of humor and joie de vivre just like they should be valued, I believe. (And Jack's always a part of what makes the 9th octor human and whole, just like Rose.) Only he doesn't need these. The Doctor himself has courage, and a good sense of humor, and enough joie de vivre. What he has lost forever and therefore he needs, is the innocence. Rose is the innocence. That's why she's his fascination, his mascot, until the very end.
Jack is too much a soldier for him, a lieutenant or an aide de camp at most. He has too much in common with Jack to really care about Jack, because the 9th Doctor doesn't care much about himself, which we have already seen in 'Father's Day'.
Interesting that in DW I always identify with the Doctor and in TW I always identify with Jack. I who have hardly identified with any heroes before...

Re: Part 1

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

When we first met Jack in Empty Child/Doctor Dances, he's a man who cleans his own mess.

Yes, and really, the trigger to his epiphany is that he discoveres in "The Doctor Dances" that he not only can't clean his own mess, he caused the mess in the first place and it's hurting everyone else. The only thing he can do is an act of expiation - take the bomb away. Take the bomb and die. But that earns him another chance at life, and a better life at that.

sex is somewhere he feels very safe, and something he feels confident enough to give and take.

A healing mechanism. A way of sharing and communicating and comforting, all at once.

I'd say 9th Doctor/Jack seems far more equal and better balanced than Jack/Ianto.

I agree, though it goes through stages. In "The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances", Jack is ambigous and multi-faceted, revealing more and more of himself by layers as the story progresses. In "Boom Town" Jack is a much more balanced person within himself - balanced by happiness and fulfilment and circumstance. He's relaxed (in his own hyperactive way) and free to be himself - though no doubt still rediscovering what that means, and basing his new and revised sense of selfhood on the Doctor. He wants to be a hero in that mould - a successful hero, a protector.

Torchwood should have a motto like 'one mess-up only each day'...


LOL - yes! Or make it an official part of the schedule: "On Thursday, we clean up our messes...." I can just see Ianto rolling his eyes at the notion, thinking, "I have to clean up everyone's messes all the time."

The 9th Doctor values DW!Jack's courage and sense of humor and joie de vivre just like they should be valued, I believe.

All those things. And the Doctor also likes to fix people and things. He saw in Jack someone he could fix, someone worth fixing, someone who makes him smile and gives him challenges too.

What he has lost forever and therefore he needs, is the innocence. Rose is the innocence. That's why she's his fascination, his mascot, until the very end.

Yes... and since Jack is a warrior, he can't stay in the safe environment of the TARDIS, he has to go out where there are wars to be fought and challenges to be met.

He has too much in common with Jack to really care about Jack, because the 9th Doctor doesn't care much about himself, which we have already seen in 'Father's Day'.

Perhaps he has a fear that his own guilt/agression, his aggregate problems, will infect Jack, who has his own similar set of problems - they both have a good share of survivor's guilt, and regret over decisions they have made that had disastrous results, or decisions they failed to make that had disastrous results. So while the Doctor helped Jack and made him happy and helped him to reconstruct his life, he couldn't continue to help Jack - Jack had to find his own challenges or their beautifully balanced relationships might become damaging, even parasitic. Or would simply stop being helpful to each of them.

Interesting that in DW I always identify with the Doctor and in TW I always identify with Jack. I who have hardly identified with any heroes before...

I often identify with my heroes, but these two, I identify with more than most.

Re: Part 1

[myfavouriteplum.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the TARDIS days are the happy vacation days in Jack's whole life as a soldier, and ended in a war, too. Vacation is great. But if your whole life turns into a never-ending vacation, it's not a very healthy life style...or you should be the Doctor. He's a Time Lord and therefore has his privileges...his job seems to be the same thing as his vacation. How happy/unhappy is that?
(Well, I haven't watched any episodes of the old series, so if I said something wrong...please tell me.)
So the holiday has to end. So Jack has to relearn how to be on his own, sooner or later. When he's with the Doctor, he lets the Doctor do the worries, do the thinkings. (That's something about other companions, too. In TARDIS world, he/she can let go and be a kid for some time. Part of the reasons why the journey is so happy: it's carefree. Again, knowing nearly nothing about the old Who, I'm only talking about the new series. ) But that's the mindset of a soldier, not of a captain. Jack wants to be a hero, a protector, and heroes do their own worries and thinkings.
And yes, the Doctor enjoys fixing things...and has enjoyed fixing Jack. And he has done his job, or at least his part of job.
He loves and respects Jack enough to ask Jack to make the hard choice for him('die as a human or live as a Dalek'). And Jack gives him the answer he needs. Then the Doctor fails to follow in. (And we can understand why.) It's a betrayal which hardly has any direct results(though there're some indirect results, like Jack's immortality), because Jack's already dead, and I doubt that Jack knows about the betrayal. But a betrayal as well. (And it's a betrayal which can bring ideological disillusion, while the departure without him can bring emotional disillusion.) And soon the Doctor dies, too. Betrayals, deaths, ashes. Book ends.
Glad that Jack'll get a new chapter of the book and will end it on better terms.

Re: Part 1

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

the TARDIS days are the happy vacation days in Jack's whole life as a soldier, and ended in a war, too.

Jack's bit of the story started in a war (World War II in 1941), ended in a war (the Game Station in the 2001st century). Seems to me that since Jack's life is so full of war, just slightly more metaphorically in Torchwood than in Doctor Who, sex is his way of taking a break from it - making love not war, as best he can.

[The Doctor's] job seems to be the same thing as his vacation. How happy/unhappy is that?

Not so much a job as a lifestyle. Or an identity.

So Jack has to relearn how to be on his own, sooner or later.

Yes. Can't live for just himself - that might be summed up as the lesson he learned from the Doctor. So he has to - well, to save the world. Even when it seems like too much for him.

I haven't watched any episodes of the old series, so if I said something wrong...please tell me.

Many years ago I watched an episode of the old show from the 1960s, was bored, and remember nothing of it. More recently, I saw the 1996 movie with Paul McGann as the 8th Doctor, and was horrified by how stupid it was. Though the performances of Paul McGann and Eric Roberts were good, given their awful script. So I really know nothing about earlier Doctor Who either, and just about anything I say relates only to the New Who.

Jack wants to be a hero, a protector, and heroes do their own worries and thinkings.

Maybe we should think of him as a sort of apprentice hero. He learned the lesson of being a soldier; now he's struggling to become a leader.

He loves and respects Jack enough to ask Jack to make the hard choice for him('die as a human or live as a Dalek').

One of the things I love about Doctor Who in general and the Doctor/Jack/Rose relationships in particular is the way the Doctor really does respect the intelligence of Jack and Rose, and the way he likes them as people. No condescension, though he does like to tease. But they like to tease him too, so it's okay.

Glad that Jack'll get a new chapter of the book and will end it on better terms.

Yes... Like the second act of a play - perhaps an opera, since it's epic in scope. It's the new post-Torchwood, post-Abaddon Jack, who dresses and acts differently; a Doctor with a new body; and a new Companion. A chance for resolution, I hope, and a new situation.