Favourite female lead...

[fajrdrako]

February 28, 2008:
Who is your favorite female lead character? And why? (And yes, of course, you can name more than one . . . I always have trouble narrowing down these things to one name, why should I force you to?)

Difficult choice. Off the top of my head, my first thought was of Lady Katherine Samantha Campion Talbert from Ellen Kushner's Privilege of the Sword. I also thought of Kate Somerville from the Lymond novels by Dorothy Dunnett, but Kate can't be called the female lead, even if I wish she had been. Who else? I'm quite fond of Kinsey Milhone, and Leonie from Georgette Heyer's These Old Shades, and Heyer's Venetia as well. From Lois McMaster Bujold, Cordelia Naismaith, and Fawn.

There are a number of action-hero women I particularly love: Renee Montoya, Dani Reese, Bridget Logan, Zoe Washburne, Kara Thrace, Sharon Agathon.

Then there's Leo from The Friendly Young Ladies by Mary Renault - it isn't, unfortunately, a good book, but Leo really made an impression on me.

In most of my favourite books, its the male protagonists who make an impression. There are not as many strong women in fiction as I would like. In Jane Eyre, for example, I like Rochester much more than Jane; in Pride and Prejudice, I like Mr. Darcy more than Elizabeth.

In comics, there are more. Elektra was a favourite, back in her Daredevil days. Jean Grey, Sue Storm-Richards, Domino, Kitty Pryde, Emma Frost, Rachel Summers, Natasha Romanov, Catwoman in the hands of a good writer, Saturn Girl, the team of Ayla and Vi from vol.4 of Legion of Super-Heroes. Maggie and Hopey, Omaha the Cat Dancer, Thorn from Bone, and Red Sonja from the days of Barry Windsor-Smith. And always, always, always, Supergirl.

Is that enough of a list? I'm bound to think of more.

And - why? The women I like have courage and individuality, integrity and a strong personality. They are independent, smart, and distinctive. They respect others and themelves - okay, with some lapses.

basically, they have the same qualities I look for in a male protagonist.

Comments

[ceruleancat.livejournal.com]

I could name a few non-leads I like, and while it's easier than leads, it's still not so easy. Most female characters seem to blend into each other and I can't tell them apart. Often even in looks. I love Willow, I like Tara, I like Zoe to some extent. I like Abby from NCIS.
My views on women on Angel, on the other hand, ranges from indifference to detest - although, on the bright side, that means they are clearly individuated.

And now I run into the question of what do we mean by 'like' in this context. That we watch/read because of that character? That we admire her or are happy when there are scenes with her? That we want to know more or see more about her? That we'd read/write fic about? That that character is particularly memorable?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I run into the question of what do we mean by 'like' in this context.

Good point.

That we watch/read because of that character?

That would be partly it. I have bought comics because Renee Montoya was in them, and for no other reason. (Sometimes regretted it later.) Would I still read Bujold without Cordelia? Yes, of course - most of the Miles books hardly feature her.

If I'm too picky about the question, I end up with no women on my list at all. And that would be a pity.

That we'd read/write fic about?

By that argument, Gwen Cooper would be on my list. Heck, by that criterion, even the destestable Lana Lang would be on my list! Help!

That that character is particularly memorable?

That's definitely part of it. Memorable in a good way.

[ceruleancat.livejournal.com]

All are possible options, of course, and each would produce a different result and a different vibe to the list.
None of the female characters I mentioned are 'the reason I watch the show'. I can't think of any female character at all who's the reason I watch a show, or write about. Although I would read about some. But the reading is wider. One reads not just about the top level of liked characters. I don't think I'd go as far as reading Lana Lang, although I probably would have if Adam wrote it.

I suppose all the characters I mentioned are in the "remembered fondly" category.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

None of the female characters I mentioned are 'the reason I watch the show'

There's only one show I can think of where I watch for the female lead, and that's Life, because I think Sarah Shahi as Dani Reese is ... perfect. But I don't just watch the show for her: it's also well written and has interesting stories. Would I watch it if she wasn't in it? Yes, I probably would. Amazingly enough.

Not that it's currently on. And I'm not sure Dani is anything like a female lead: It's very much Charlie Crewes in the lead, and Dani is a partner/sidekick. (And 'partner' in the professional, not the personal sense. There's UST there but there's UST between Charlie and a number of characters.)

I was watching Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles because of the gorgeous Lena Headey in the lead, but I've stopped watching it because it wasn't holding my interest even with her. So that doesn't work, does it?

My Lana Lang story was a bit of an aberration - I gave her sex with Lionel Luthor mostly to show her up. I liked the idea of the pairing, not the character.

There are comics I read for their female lead, though - besides Renee Montoya, there's Supergirl, Catwoman, and Elektra, all of which I have read because I like the women in the title roles. (And because of good writers and artists in various instances.)

[ceruleancat.livejournal.com]

My Lana Lang story was a bit of an aberration - I gave her sex with Lionel Luthor mostly to show her up. I liked the idea of the pairing, not the character.

You liked the idea of the pairing is not liking the character. Did you at least like Lionel at that point, or was it only the dynamics that interested you?

Hmm. I miss good Lionel. SV was the only show I actually left because TPTB were so horrible to their characters (they probably still are).

I was watching Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles because of the gorgeous Lena Headey in the lead, but I've stopped watching it because it wasn't holding my interest even with her. So that doesn't work, does it?

That sort of thing happens to me so often.
--
There are historical figures and mythical figures I like, but usually, their representations in popular media leave me cold. Elizabeth I is a case in point. Few I did like. Eleanor of Aquitaine in the original Lion in Winter. Livia in I Claudius is a character I like, regardless of historical accuracy (although I can't say I would have watched the show just for her. That show has so many lovely aspects.) You could argue both are leads

The same problem extends to novels. I thought of two minor characters that I loved in their books - Mercedes in Le Comte de Monte Cristo and Rebbecca in Duncton Wood. Both are important characters, but they're very much not leads. But I've yet to find a Monte Cristo production in which I would like Mercedes (or even Edmund). Why are there so many crap productions?

I really like Taru, who's an OC lead in a HL WIP Adam wrote a long time ago, that isn't published. I thought of mentioning this one when I commented yesterday, but hesitated because you wouldn't know her.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Did you at least like Lionel at that point, or was it only the dynamics that interested you?

I always adored Lionel - well, until he became pseudo-good and I stopped watching. But for a season or two he was a magnificent character. I don't know what happened after that. But no, I wrote the story because I thought it would be interesting to write about Lionel abusing her and she not even realize she was being abused.

SV was the only show I actually left because TPTB were so horrible to their characters (they probably still are).

Me too, and I agree. What were they thinking?

There are historical figures and mythical figures I like, but usually, their representations in popular media leave me cold.

Me too, and the historical/mythical thing is a whole other list of heroes. Julius Caesar being one of my favourites - representations of him are all over the map, depending on writer, actor, interpretation.... I kind of liked Karl Urban in the role, though any resemblance to real history in Xena should be taken with a blindfold of denial. I once saw Edward Atienza play him in Shaw's Caesar and Cleopatra on the NAC stage, and enjoyed the performance very much, but it was of course a modern Canadian version of a Shavian version of a historical figure in a case where any resemblance to a Roman reality is more or less coincidental. I love it that in the Shaw version, Caesar and Cleopatra weren't even lovers: how does he think they came to have a kid? And I like the Stephen Saylor version (which he claims to have good evidence for), that Caesar's first Egyptian lover was Cleopatra's brother. The worse Caesar ever was Rex Harrison in the Elizabeth Taylor "Cleopatra", though the recent Ciaran Hinds version in "Rome" made me squirm and I can't even say why.

Ahem. I digress. Yes, between the history and the fiction is a world of interpretation, and isn't it fun?

Eleanor of Aquitaine in the original Lion in Winter.

Katharine Hepburn's portayal, you mean? I love that script. Have you seen the movie with Glenn Close in the role?

I quite liked the Depardieu version of The Count of Monte Cristo, though I only saw a little of it. And Depardieu is nothing like the character in my mind's eye when I read the book. Mr. Rochester is a favourite of mine too, and I've yet to see an actor that got him right, though (oddly enough) Timothy Dalton came close. I thought the recent interpretation by Tony Stephens was utterly bad.

Why are there so many crap productions?

And why are there so few good ones?

[filkferengi]

Have you seen the "Jane Eyre" with Orson Welles & Joan Fontaine?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Have you seen the "Jane Eyre" with Orson Welles & Joan Fontaine?

Yes. Not a favourite, but not bad. What I remember most about it is Maureen O'Brien as Adele.

[filkferengi]

Ooh, I hadn't noticed that; I should check it out next time it's on.

[ceruleancat.livejournal.com]

Me too, and I agree. What were they thinking?

To do what would maximize ratings and please the network. Is why SV is on and Angel was canceled, not to mention Firefly.
I never even got as far as Lionel going good, or whatever they were doing there.
It's a character with so much potential. The entire show very quickly deteriorated to eye-candy and 'don't think about anything else'.

The worse Caesar ever was Rex Harrison in the Elizabeth Taylor "Cleopatra", though the recent Ciaran Hinds version in "Rome" made me squirm and I can't even say why.

Me too. I love Rex Harrison, but that movie was ahhh! 'Rome' just bored me to death. But Caesar was never one of my favorites. I like Augustus, although I don't know how much of that stems from Brian Blessed's performance in Claudius. I always assume more fiction than fact in so-called historical renditions (and you have much more of a background than mine, so you'd notice it more), but at least the character should be... I don't know... not ridiculous is the best I can come up with right now, and that's a fairly low standard.
We started watching a production of Henry VIII recently, with Jonathan Rhys Meyers. I was skeptic but willing to give it a go. I couldn't stand more than 5 minutes.

Ahem. I digress.
How is this digression rather than part of the discussion? We've simply expanded 'female leads we like' to 'characters we like', since the first was too limited. ;)

Eleanor of Aquitaine in the original Lion in Winter.
Katharine Hepburn's portayal, you mean? I love that script. Have you seen the movie with Glenn Close in the role?

Yes. We discussed it once, after you saw it, I think. I thought it was a good production, but I prefer Hepburn to Close. Of course the couples matched in tone. I don't usually like either Hepburn or Close, but they did this role well.
Rhys Meyers was a fairly good Phillip, if I remember correctly. That's why I gave him a chance as Henry VIII.

I quite liked the Depardieu version of The Count of Monte Cristo, though I only saw a little of it. And Depardieu is nothing like the character in my mind's eye when I read the book.

I hated that one. For one thing, the book is a beautifully structured drama with lovely small stages. There is no need to change the plot into something that is both less dramatic and more ludicrous. That's true for most other versions I've seen. I concede some adaptation is required, but why rewrite the bloody book?!
Secondly, Depardieu, aught to have known better than to take on such a lead. He doesn't provide the right vibe and never did. Of course at his level, he can take whatever role he bloody pleases. He could have been interesting as any of the villains.

Mr. Rochester is a favourite of mine too, and I've yet to see an actor that got him right, though (oddly enough) Timothy Dalton came close. I thought the recent interpretation by Tony Stephens was utterly bad.
Dalton wasn't bad there. (Nor was Jane, for that matter. Gave the right mix of plainness and annoying asceticism.) I remember Dalton as a very bad Heathcliff - which is an interesting comparison. Never liked Heathcliff.
Another fav (again male) book character that is usually murdered in productions is Holmes. At least there is one very good portrayal - and that's Jeremy Brett's. But I didn't like his Watson too much.

And why are there so few good ones?
I ref you back to the SV comment.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

To do what would maximize ratings and please the network.

I guess it worked. But at what cost?

The entire show very quickly deteriorated to eye-candy

Sadly, the show deteriorated to total nonsense.

I like Caesar historically; Augustus - well, it depends on the production.

Even I could not stand The Tudors and I generally adore Jonathan Rhys Meyers. But it was just so boring! The only interesting character in it is Catherine of Aragon, and she... still wasn't interesting enough. And Cardinal Wolsey, as the over-the-top scheming cardinal (think Doctor Doom in Renaissance England). He wanted to be Pope and so was practising his evilness.

I remember discussing Glenn Close and Katharine Hepburn with you now. I think I'm overdue for another Lion in Winter fix. Which version? Maybe both.

I love Jeremy Brett but have only seen part of one of his Sherlock Holmes shows - on an airplane. I don't remember Watson.