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[personal profile] fajrdrako

February 28, 2008:
Who is your favorite female lead character? And why? (And yes, of course, you can name more than one . . . I always have trouble narrowing down these things to one name, why should I force you to?)


Difficult choice. Off the top of my head, my first thought was of Lady Katherine Samantha Campion Talbert from Ellen Kushner's Privilege of the Sword. I also thought of Kate Somerville from the Lymond novels by Dorothy Dunnett, but Kate can't be called the female lead, even if I wish she had been. Who else? I'm quite fond of Kinsey Milhone, and Leonie from Georgette Heyer's These Old Shades, and Heyer's Venetia as well. From Lois McMaster Bujold, Cordelia Naismaith, and Fawn.

There are a number of action-hero women I particularly love: Renee Montoya, Dani Reese, Bridget Logan, Zoe Washburne, Kara Thrace, Sharon Agathon.

Then there's Leo from The Friendly Young Ladies by Mary Renault - it isn't, unfortunately, a good book, but Leo really made an impression on me.

In most of my favourite books, its the male protagonists who make an impression. There are not as many strong women in fiction as I would like. In Jane Eyre, for example, I like Rochester much more than Jane; in Pride and Prejudice, I like Mr. Darcy more than Elizabeth.

In comics, there are more. Elektra was a favourite, back in her Daredevil days. Jean Grey, Sue Storm-Richards, Domino, Kitty Pryde, Emma Frost, Rachel Summers, Natasha Romanov, Catwoman in the hands of a good writer, Saturn Girl, the team of Ayla and Vi from vol.4 of Legion of Super-Heroes. Maggie and Hopey, Omaha the Cat Dancer, Thorn from Bone, and Red Sonja from the days of Barry Windsor-Smith. And always, always, always, Supergirl.

Is that enough of a list? I'm bound to think of more.

And - why? The women I like have courage and individuality, integrity and a strong personality. They are independent, smart, and distinctive. They respect others and themelves - okay, with some lapses.

basically, they have the same qualities I look for in a male protagonist.

Date: 2008-03-04 03:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sparklebutch.livejournal.com
Is Zoe lead? I don't know a lot of these, but would you consider them lead?

Date: 2008-03-04 02:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
Er. Hm. No, Zoe isn't a lead, though... There really is no female lead in Firefly. And of the others I named: in Legion of Super-Heroes the women may be the lead in individual stories, but it's team/emsemble story.

So if you pare down my list to those who are clear protagonists, and/or those who share the protagonist role with the male hero - the list becomes rather short.

Damn. I want to think there are female protagonists I really love. But there aren't many or any who can compete with my favourite male heroes.

Date: 2008-03-04 03:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sparklebutch.livejournal.com
When I read the question I thought, I don't usually like leads. At all. Of any biosex or gender.

Hmm.

Date: 2008-03-04 03:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
As you know, there are many 'leads' I love. Lymond, Aral Vorkosigan, Aragorn son of Arathorn, Philip Marlowe, Batman, and so on... my list could be rather long.

Almost all male.

It isn't that I don't like 'real' women, but I think women in fiction have been... treated badly.

Date: 2008-03-04 03:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sparklebutch.livejournal.com
Yeah, I know what you mean. Not a lot to choose from.

Date: 2008-03-04 03:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
Yes, and I'm not sure why it is. It's not really a political issue... must be at least partly a gender issue, but... authors (of all genders) seem to put more originality and effort into portraying male characters. In RL women are just as interesting, but not in books. Not usually.

And even when they are interesting, they don't fit the standard pattern of protagonists.

Date: 2008-03-04 11:37 am (UTC)
elebridith: (Default)
From: [personal profile] elebridith
I grew up with Wonder Woman :-) Twentysome years ago, I read her regularly for some years, until I couldn't get the comics anymore in my town. Loved her - smart, beautiful, and those bullet-deflecting wristbands were so cool. Sometimes was too moony over Steve Trevor, but at the age of 16, I thought it was romantic:-)
I only had occasionally some Batman paperbacks, but Catwoman - yes. Liked that you could never tell for sure if she's good or bad.
And as you mentioned the Legion of Superheroes - that are those from the future, right? I remember Saturn Girl! And don't ask why, but I liked... what's her english name? The one with black hair, yellow dress and wings? Star something? I have a thing for wings...:-)

In books, that's difficult. Just so, I recall two, because I agree with you about the Jane Austen characters - Charlotte Pitt from the victorian-set crime novels by Anne Perry, she's headstrong, stubborn and smart. And my all-time fandom woman: Mara Jade, the later Mara Jade Skywalker from the Star Wars Expanded Universe. At least when her creator Timothy Zahn writes her, other authors don't do her always justice. May sound silly, but she got me when I read that she has red hair. Always wanted red hair myself:-) but she's one of the strongest females in the SW universe. Also - stubborn, pig-headed, independent, very smart, dry sense of humor. Love her.
Have to check my bookshelf for others when I'm home...

Date: 2008-03-04 02:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
There are versions of Wonder Woman I love - and some I don't. Don't recall reading Wonder Woman as a kid, though I must have.

Catwoman has had good characterization and bad - I never really liked her until the recent stories by Darwin Cooke and others.

And Saturn Girl, so cool with the telepathic powers. Dawnstar (http://www.legionclubhouse.com/wiki/images/thumb/f/f2/Dawnstar-LaRocque-Stars.jpg/250px-Dawnstar-LaRocque-Stars.jpg) is the girl with wings - she's beautiful.

Though I never much liked Star Wars in any incarnation, I do like some of the characters, and Mara Jade is one of the ones I liked. Haven't read the Timothy Zahn books, though - even though I like his writing.

The red hair is cool. I like (and almost mentioned ) Joanna Dark for that reason, though she isn't quite enough developed as a character to qualify. (She's a Greg Rucka action hero.)

Date: 2008-03-04 08:18 pm (UTC)
elebridith: (Default)
From: [personal profile] elebridith
I didn't realize until last year that there were different WW versions - I stumbled over the "Ultimate WW Guide" (Dorling Kindersley) and was like O_O !! I've heard that George Perez did the best drawings, though - but those comics are hard to get. Oh well.
Ah, Dawnstar! Her german name is "Sternschwinge", something like "Star Wings" roughly translated. Yup, beautiful. And not always nice - she could be haughty sometimes, that was new!

The Timothy Zahn books practically started the SW Expanded Universe. The "Heirs to the empire"-trilogy where Mara showed up first is legend - and still one of the best-written ones. Thankfully the era of the let's call them the less-good-writers :-) seems over... and Zahn is really great. Some time I'll check out his other writings.

Oh, and another fascinating female lead IMO is Xenia from "Robber Bride" by Margaret Atwood. The book is not told from her point of view, but she's described as absolute evil - but very smart and could play people like puppets. I read her with a kind of morbid fascination as I could find some treats in her that I recalled from girls I knew, that gave me creeps. Great book nonetheless.

Date: 2008-03-05 03:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
I didn't realize until last year that there were different WW versions

Oh, yes - quite a few of them, now! What with reboots and revisions and alternate universes. George Perez's art is incredibly beautiful, but a lot of people have done a superb job on Wonder Woman - I love the way John Deodato drew her, and Art Adams. And though I'm not a huge fan of animation and have hardly watched the Justice League TV show, I love the way it portrays Wonder Woman.

"Sternschwinge" - oh, lovely name!

Margaret Atwood is good for giving me the creeps.

Date: 2008-03-04 04:44 pm (UTC)
ext_6615: (Default)
From: [identity profile] janne-d.livejournal.com
Gah, lj ate this the first time... trying again.

Cordelia Naismith, nsturally. Perceptive, honourable and oh so strong in all sorts of ways.

Another LMB heroine, Ista from Paladin of Souls, who I find endlessly fascinating though I'm not entirely sure I can articulate why. She starts off with privilege rather than power (to borrow from LMB) and carves herself out agency and a place from sheer stubborn will. Plus she keeps her head wonderfully.

Thursday Next from the Jasper Fforde series, for inventiveness and coping with all the insanity of her life without going nuts.

And Harriet Vane, for the pride, wit and intelligence to match Peter Wimsey and take him on.

Date: 2008-03-04 07:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
Cordelia Naismith, nsturally. Perceptive, honourable and oh so strong in all sorts of ways

Yes. Cordelia is wonderful. I still want to see novels about her life as Gregor's teacher, and her adventures in Sergyar.

I haven't read Paladin of Souls yet but I've heard very good things about it.

Thursday Next is fun, I agree! and Harriet Vane: another good choice.

Date: 2008-03-04 09:29 pm (UTC)
ext_6615: (Default)
From: [identity profile] janne-d.livejournal.com
I still want to see novels about her life as Gregor's teacher

Oh yeah, that would be amazing! Do you think Lois is open to bribery?

I haven't read Paladin of Souls yet but I've heard very good things about it

I shall add my voice in saying it's excellent, really. You do need to read The Curse of Chalion first if you haven't already - well, actually you probably don't need to since LMB is good enough not to leave you lost without exposition dumping background all over the place - but there's definitely stuff about the religious system she's set up in The Curse of Chalion that adds to what happens in Paladin of Souls. Plus The Curse of Chalion is also a damn fine book! I do prefer PoS though, mainly because Ista is so fantastic - she's another one of LMB's unlikely heroes and she starts off with probably less freedom to act and decide her destiny than any of the rest of them.

Thursday Next is fun, I agree

Have you read any of the Nursey Crimes books he's done? I've only read the first one, The Big Over Easy, but it was highly entertaining. I must pick up The Fourth Bear at some point - I keep forgetting because I had a friend who worked for the publisher here and she would just get me copies before. Sadly she works for a different publishing house, sigh.

Date: 2008-03-05 03:20 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
Do you think Lois is open to bribery?

I think all mortal beings are open to bribery. The trick is to find the bribe that will work. Hmm.

You do need to read The Curse of Chalion first if you haven't already

I have read it. I don't remember it very clearly but I don't particularly want to read it again. Not that it wasn't good, but I had a few issues that I don't want to revisit.

No, I haven't read the Nursery Crimes books yet. I head a talk by Fforde once - he was wonderful - and he was talking about the first one, which at the time was just about to be published. Had us in stitches.



Date: 2008-03-05 04:20 pm (UTC)
ext_6615: (Default)
From: [identity profile] janne-d.livejournal.com
I don't particularly want to read it again. Not that it wasn't good, but I had a few issues that I don't want to revisit

Oh, hmm. Does that extend to not wanting to say what the issues were? You've got me curious now, but obviously feel free to ignore my curiosity - it only kills cats, not LJ-ers. But depending on what the issues were you may or may not enjoy PoS, so I withdraw my whole-hearted recommendation!

Date: 2008-03-05 04:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
Does that extend to not wanting to say what the issues were?

No, not at all - it's nothing esoteric. Just that Caz's depression was so convincing that it reminded me way too much of my own bout with serious depression, which is not something I like to be reminded of, simply because it was so difficult and painful.

I take it that Paladin of Souls has a different theme, and I will probably like it much more. I did enjoy The Hallowed Hunt but nothing like the extent to which I enjoy the Vorkosigan novels.

Date: 2008-03-05 05:18 pm (UTC)
ext_6615: (Default)
From: [identity profile] janne-d.livejournal.com
Oh, I'm sorry - my mum is bipolar and was hospitalised a few times when I was living at home. I don't get how depression feels myself but I've seen it and it sucks - I'm glad you're in a better place.

I never thought of Caz as depressed particularly - more recovering from trauma and afraid - but I guess I can see it.

In Paladin of Souls, Ista is in the position of having come out of the fog of the curse (which for her in the first book was certainly like depression) and trying to find a path for the rest of her life and some freedom from her past. Like Caz, she doesn't start of from the best place emotionally, and she has more rage in her than he does. So, I don't know - it does have a different feel to it than CoC, but I couldn't say whether you'd like it more.

I was disappointed with The Hallowed Hunt. I felt it lacked the clarity of the worlds and societies LMB normally conveys and the central characters were a little empty. I didn't really feel like I knew either Ingrey or Ijada by the end and never connected with them, and Ingrey was very reactive as a character - he just seemed to get carried along by events all the time with no real plan.

Date: 2008-03-05 05:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
I'm glad you're in a better place.

Yes, me too! I have always been a cheerful, calm, philosophical and positively-inclined sort of person and never dreamed I could become depressed. Until it crept up on me, and it was bad for a while. I survived and recovered - but wouldn't ever want to go through that again.

So maybe it was a funciton of when I read The Curse of Chalion, but his PTSD sounded and felt just like my depression. And I used to love books with depressed heroes - still do, depending on the hero and the nature of his depressoin - but that book was just way, way too close to how I was feeling. Brought it all back. Made reading that book a gruelling and difficult experience.

Yes, in The Hallowed Hunt I liked the characters more than I liked the plot, and the world seemed a little shallow to me. Not much substance there. I was terribly disappointed in the villain - Horseriver? was that his name? - who went, I thought, from fascinating to banal in about one chapter.

Date: 2008-03-05 07:11 pm (UTC)
ext_6615: (Default)
From: [identity profile] janne-d.livejournal.com
I was terribly disappointed in the villain - Horseriver? was that his name?

I don't even remember what he was trying to do, much less his name!

I think it was actually meant to be the same world as Curse of Chalion and Paladin of Souls, but in a different region. I'm sure I remember them talking about the 5 gods at one point. But yes, it was a more shallow depiction than in those books - I couldn't get any sense of it at all.

Date: 2008-03-08 07:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
Re Horseriver, who many or may not have been named that:

I don't even remember what he was trying to do, much less his name!

yes. I liked the character until he turned out to be a nasty villain. I think he wanted to control the dead. (the undead?) I don't remember why.
For power, presumably.


Date: 2008-03-04 09:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ceruleancat.livejournal.com
Not many female leads to choose from. I can name Eliza Doolittle (My Fair Lady) and Harriet Vane (from Dorothy Sayers' novels).

I have the same reaction to Jane Eyre and Pride and Prejudice, although I don't mind Elizabeth while I really dislike Jane. If we go back to my childhood, you could probably add Jo March, and Anne Shirley left some favourable impression, although only in the first novel.

I can't, at the moment, think of a woman in modern popular media that I like and is considered a lead. Male characters get to be much more individuated, even when they fit patterns, I think, while the portrayal of women tends to stray less from the patterns.

Date: 2008-03-05 01:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
I can name Eliza Doolittle (My Fair Lady) and Harriet Vane (from Dorothy Sayers' novels).

Excellent choices.

Yes, I quite liked Anne Shirley. But... I don't think she left a very strong impression.

Male characters get to be much more individuated, even when they fit patterns, I think, while the portrayal of women tends to stray less from the patterns.

Yes, that's the problem. I can't offhand think of a show which I watch that has a strong female lead. I can think of some weak female leads, no problem. And lots of female... sidekicks.

Date: 2008-03-06 11:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ceruleancat.livejournal.com
I could name a few non-leads I like, and while it's easier than leads, it's still not so easy. Most female characters seem to blend into each other and I can't tell them apart. Often even in looks. I love Willow, I like Tara, I like Zoe to some extent. I like Abby from NCIS.
My views on women on Angel, on the other hand, ranges from indifference to detest - although, on the bright side, that means they are clearly individuated.

And now I run into the question of what do we mean by 'like' in this context. That we watch/read because of that character? That we admire her or are happy when there are scenes with her? That we want to know more or see more about her? That we'd read/write fic about? That that character is particularly memorable?

Date: 2008-03-07 01:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
I run into the question of what do we mean by 'like' in this context.

Good point.

That we watch/read because of that character?

That would be partly it. I have bought comics because Renee Montoya was in them, and for no other reason. (Sometimes regretted it later.) Would I still read Bujold without Cordelia? Yes, of course - most of the Miles books hardly feature her.

If I'm too picky about the question, I end up with no women on my list at all. And that would be a pity.

That we'd read/write fic about?

By that argument, Gwen Cooper would be on my list. Heck, by that criterion, even the destestable Lana Lang would be on my list! Help!

That that character is particularly memorable?

That's definitely part of it. Memorable in a good way.

Date: 2008-03-07 07:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ceruleancat.livejournal.com
All are possible options, of course, and each would produce a different result and a different vibe to the list.
None of the female characters I mentioned are 'the reason I watch the show'. I can't think of any female character at all who's the reason I watch a show, or write about. Although I would read about some. But the reading is wider. One reads not just about the top level of liked characters. I don't think I'd go as far as reading Lana Lang, although I probably would have if Adam wrote it.

I suppose all the characters I mentioned are in the "remembered fondly" category.

Date: 2008-03-07 08:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
None of the female characters I mentioned are 'the reason I watch the show'

There's only one show I can think of where I watch for the female lead, and that's Life, because I think Sarah Shahi as Dani Reese is ... perfect. But I don't just watch the show for her: it's also well written and has interesting stories. Would I watch it if she wasn't in it? Yes, I probably would. Amazingly enough.

Not that it's currently on. And I'm not sure Dani is anything like a female lead: It's very much Charlie Crewes in the lead, and Dani is a partner/sidekick. (And 'partner' in the professional, not the personal sense. There's UST there but there's UST between Charlie and a number of characters.)

I was watching Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles because of the gorgeous Lena Headey in the lead, but I've stopped watching it because it wasn't holding my interest even with her. So that doesn't work, does it?

My Lana Lang story was a bit of an aberration - I gave her sex with Lionel Luthor mostly to show her up. I liked the idea of the pairing, not the character.

There are comics I read for their female lead, though - besides Renee Montoya, there's Supergirl, Catwoman, and Elektra, all of which I have read because I like the women in the title roles. (And because of good writers and artists in various instances.)

Date: 2008-03-07 09:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ceruleancat.livejournal.com
My Lana Lang story was a bit of an aberration - I gave her sex with Lionel Luthor mostly to show her up. I liked the idea of the pairing, not the character.

You liked the idea of the pairing is not liking the character. Did you at least like Lionel at that point, or was it only the dynamics that interested you?

Hmm. I miss good Lionel. SV was the only show I actually left because TPTB were so horrible to their characters (they probably still are).

I was watching Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles because of the gorgeous Lena Headey in the lead, but I've stopped watching it because it wasn't holding my interest even with her. So that doesn't work, does it?

That sort of thing happens to me so often.
--
There are historical figures and mythical figures I like, but usually, their representations in popular media leave me cold. Elizabeth I is a case in point. Few I did like. Eleanor of Aquitaine in the original Lion in Winter. Livia in I Claudius is a character I like, regardless of historical accuracy (although I can't say I would have watched the show just for her. That show has so many lovely aspects.) You could argue both are leads

The same problem extends to novels. I thought of two minor characters that I loved in their books - Mercedes in Le Comte de Monte Cristo and Rebbecca in Duncton Wood. Both are important characters, but they're very much not leads. But I've yet to find a Monte Cristo production in which I would like Mercedes (or even Edmund). Why are there so many crap productions?

I really like Taru, who's an OC lead in a HL WIP Adam wrote a long time ago, that isn't published. I thought of mentioning this one when I commented yesterday, but hesitated because you wouldn't know her.

Date: 2008-03-08 04:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
Did you at least like Lionel at that point, or was it only the dynamics that interested you?

I always adored Lionel - well, until he became pseudo-good and I stopped watching. But for a season or two he was a magnificent character. I don't know what happened after that. But no, I wrote the story because I thought it would be interesting to write about Lionel abusing her and she not even realize she was being abused.

SV was the only show I actually left because TPTB were so horrible to their characters (they probably still are).

Me too, and I agree. What were they thinking?

There are historical figures and mythical figures I like, but usually, their representations in popular media leave me cold.

Me too, and the historical/mythical thing is a whole other list of heroes. Julius Caesar being one of my favourites - representations of him are all over the map, depending on writer, actor, interpretation.... I kind of liked Karl Urban in the role, though any resemblance to real history in Xena should be taken with a blindfold of denial. I once saw Edward Atienza play him in Shaw's Caesar and Cleopatra on the NAC stage, and enjoyed the performance very much, but it was of course a modern Canadian version of a Shavian version of a historical figure in a case where any resemblance to a Roman reality is more or less coincidental. I love it that in the Shaw version, Caesar and Cleopatra weren't even lovers: how does he think they came to have a kid? And I like the Stephen Saylor version (which he claims to have good evidence for), that Caesar's first Egyptian lover was Cleopatra's brother. The worse Caesar ever was Rex Harrison in the Elizabeth Taylor "Cleopatra", though the recent Ciaran Hinds version in "Rome" made me squirm and I can't even say why.

Ahem. I digress. Yes, between the history and the fiction is a world of interpretation, and isn't it fun?

Eleanor of Aquitaine in the original Lion in Winter.

Katharine Hepburn's portayal, you mean? I love that script. Have you seen the movie with Glenn Close in the role?

I quite liked the Depardieu version of The Count of Monte Cristo, though I only saw a little of it. And Depardieu is nothing like the character in my mind's eye when I read the book. Mr. Rochester is a favourite of mine too, and I've yet to see an actor that got him right, though (oddly enough) Timothy Dalton came close. I thought the recent interpretation by Tony Stephens was utterly bad.

Why are there so many crap productions?

And why are there so few good ones?

Date: 2008-03-09 04:53 am (UTC)
filkferengi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] filkferengi
Have you seen the "Jane Eyre" with Orson Welles & Joan Fontaine?

Date: 2008-03-09 01:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
Have you seen the "Jane Eyre" with Orson Welles & Joan Fontaine?

Yes. Not a favourite, but not bad. What I remember most about it is Maureen O'Brien as Adele.

Date: 2008-03-09 07:47 pm (UTC)
filkferengi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] filkferengi
Ooh, I hadn't noticed that; I should check it out next time it's on.

Date: 2008-03-09 09:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ceruleancat.livejournal.com
Me too, and I agree. What were they thinking?

To do what would maximize ratings and please the network. Is why SV is on and Angel was canceled, not to mention Firefly.
I never even got as far as Lionel going good, or whatever they were doing there.
It's a character with so much potential. The entire show very quickly deteriorated to eye-candy and 'don't think about anything else'.

The worse Caesar ever was Rex Harrison in the Elizabeth Taylor "Cleopatra", though the recent Ciaran Hinds version in "Rome" made me squirm and I can't even say why.

Me too. I love Rex Harrison, but that movie was ahhh! 'Rome' just bored me to death. But Caesar was never one of my favorites. I like Augustus, although I don't know how much of that stems from Brian Blessed's performance in Claudius. I always assume more fiction than fact in so-called historical renditions (and you have much more of a background than mine, so you'd notice it more), but at least the character should be... I don't know... not ridiculous is the best I can come up with right now, and that's a fairly low standard.
We started watching a production of Henry VIII recently, with Jonathan Rhys Meyers. I was skeptic but willing to give it a go. I couldn't stand more than 5 minutes.

Ahem. I digress.
How is this digression rather than part of the discussion? We've simply expanded 'female leads we like' to 'characters we like', since the first was too limited. ;)

Eleanor of Aquitaine in the original Lion in Winter.
Katharine Hepburn's portayal, you mean? I love that script. Have you seen the movie with Glenn Close in the role?

Yes. We discussed it once, after you saw it, I think. I thought it was a good production, but I prefer Hepburn to Close. Of course the couples matched in tone. I don't usually like either Hepburn or Close, but they did this role well.
Rhys Meyers was a fairly good Phillip, if I remember correctly. That's why I gave him a chance as Henry VIII.

I quite liked the Depardieu version of The Count of Monte Cristo, though I only saw a little of it. And Depardieu is nothing like the character in my mind's eye when I read the book.

I hated that one. For one thing, the book is a beautifully structured drama with lovely small stages. There is no need to change the plot into something that is both less dramatic and more ludicrous. That's true for most other versions I've seen. I concede some adaptation is required, but why rewrite the bloody book?!
Secondly, Depardieu, aught to have known better than to take on such a lead. He doesn't provide the right vibe and never did. Of course at his level, he can take whatever role he bloody pleases. He could have been interesting as any of the villains.

Mr. Rochester is a favourite of mine too, and I've yet to see an actor that got him right, though (oddly enough) Timothy Dalton came close. I thought the recent interpretation by Tony Stephens was utterly bad.
Dalton wasn't bad there. (Nor was Jane, for that matter. Gave the right mix of plainness and annoying asceticism.) I remember Dalton as a very bad Heathcliff - which is an interesting comparison. Never liked Heathcliff.
Another fav (again male) book character that is usually murdered in productions is Holmes. At least there is one very good portrayal - and that's Jeremy Brett's. But I didn't like his Watson too much.

And why are there so few good ones?
I ref you back to the SV comment.

Date: 2008-03-10 12:52 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
To do what would maximize ratings and please the network.

I guess it worked. But at what cost?

The entire show very quickly deteriorated to eye-candy

Sadly, the show deteriorated to total nonsense.

I like Caesar historically; Augustus - well, it depends on the production.

Even I could not stand The Tudors and I generally adore Jonathan Rhys Meyers. But it was just so boring! The only interesting character in it is Catherine of Aragon, and she... still wasn't interesting enough. And Cardinal Wolsey, as the over-the-top scheming cardinal (think Doctor Doom in Renaissance England). He wanted to be Pope and so was practising his evilness.

I remember discussing Glenn Close and Katharine Hepburn with you now. I think I'm overdue for another Lion in Winter fix. Which version? Maybe both.

I love Jeremy Brett but have only seen part of one of his Sherlock Holmes shows - on an airplane. I don't remember Watson.




a Torchwood video you might enjoy

Date: 2008-03-09 05:32 am (UTC)
filkferengi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] filkferengi
http://voiceofkiki.livejournal.com/74274.html

The music is a tune about original Star Trek that you may already know. It's an unusual version, & therefore one of my favorites.

:)

Re: a Torchwood video you might enjoy

Date: 2008-03-09 02:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
Of course I know "Banned from Argo", doesn't everyone?

And... it's downright embarrasing the way Torchwood fits that song like a glove. (A rising-from-the-dead homicidal predatory metal glove.)

Love it!

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