Torchwood and Doctor Who...

[fajrdrako]

Funny how our fannish reactions change. slodwick asked about pairings we liked. Now, any time before "The Last of the Time Lords", I'd have said my favourite pairing in fandom currently was Captain Jack Harkness and the Doctor, no question, no hesitation.

But then I found I was having trouble conceptualizing that or writing it. It's as if they... broke my pairing. Destroyed my concept of it. I didn't think that was even possible. No wonder I'm still scrambling to get my post-series-3 bearings.

And everyone else seems to be squeeing about the Master, but he's part of my mixed and troubled reactions. I'm sorting it all out in my head and it's getting easier, but not as it was. I think all I need to do is get a mental handle on it and write a fic that makes it all work for me. Really, that's all.

Meanwhile... I'm still flinching. A little.

Which is why I've refocussed on Torchwood and away from Doctor Who till I get oriented again.

Comments

The Doctor: Transformation or Stasis?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I don't understand very well the cluelessness, but I do understand his despair.

I agree. Perhaps it's that the script condensed too much, or skipped over too much, of his personal reactions adn feelings? Or motives?

maybe this is the first time he didn't have the moral high ground when facing the Master, not with their roles reversed in the Time War, so this experience is a little strange for him?

Yes. In all the time since the Time War, he has lived with his guilt, but has never been answerable to anyone. So when the Master asks him about it... and says what he says about it... I can see that hitting the Doctor on a deep level. Especially since the Master had been resurrected as a sort of secret weapon against the Daleks and then he'd run. Running is the Doctor's job. It just does more to twist their lives and psyches together.

It wasn't only about Rose. Even the specialness about Rose as a companion is about the Time War. He couldn't bear the loss of Rose after the loss of Gallifrey.

She is almost certainly his only personal connection after the Time War. She is a sort of gateway to humanity - knowing her, he is free to feel connection to other people - Jack, Sarah Jane, Reinette, even Mickey, and casual acquaintances too. But somewhere in series 3 that connection gets broken or turned around. (There I am, talking about things 'being broken' again.) By "The Sound of Drums", the Doctor has the choice to save humanity at the cost of one he loves (the Master, in this case) - and he opts to save the Master at the expense of Earth, which gets restored becasue of his long-term plan - though still involving the choice he never really gets to make, because the Master dies. Short term, anyway. Dies as far as the Doctor is concerned.

In fact, it seems the only things that are not fully restored are his relationships with Jack and Martha.

Hmm. The implication could be "end of an era" or it could be "ongoing story".

The Doctor that we saw in 'Smith and Jones' has already moved on.

So he had. He hadn't forgotten Rose or the Time War, but he was carrying on with life just fine. I was therefore slightly at a loss as to how and where the suicidal impulses appeared in "Daleks in Manhattan" and why the idea of the Doctor being suicidal had so little impact on story or theme. It was sort of ... glossed over.

The self-sacrifice/forgiveness (The New Testament) and the cruelty on enemies (The Old Testament) are two sides of the same coin.

Yes. I like both aspects. At least... I like them when I can figure them out.

the Doctor don't really want to be a lonely God. He doesn't trust himself on being one. He wasn't one when other Time Lords were around. Even Nine wasn't. (Maybe it's something about the absorbing of the Time Vortex?)

The Time Vortex istself is really the lonely god? I like that idea!

He isn't happy about it, but he has got the responsibility. And certainly the trauma of John Smith didn't help him.

John Smith would be a bit of an escape. No wonder he was panicking at the idea of becoming the Doctor again.

Ten has his issues all along, the Master was just good at pushing the right buttons.

And because of those issues (guilt, loneliness, nostalgia) Ten was particularly ready to be tweaked. If he thought he was getting a bit of Gallifrey back... well, it was irrational, but the Doctor has skirted irrationality for a long time.

In the end, the Doctor seemed almost happy, ready to give up the lonely God part to be the doctor of only one patient, the Master. Anyone is worth saving in the eyes of a doctor.

In a way it's a pity that TLOTTL was the end of the series because it left us hanging and it left the situation at the end of that episode look much more static and permanent than it actually may be. I'm trying to readjust to seeing it as part of an ongoing continuum.

Not quite succeeding, but getting there.

My thoughts on Martha/Doctor and Jack/Doctor have taken better shape - in terms of understanding the story structure - but I'm still working on sorting it.

Re: The Doctor: Transformation or Stasis?

[myfavouriteplum.livejournal.com]

"Could it be that Martha expresses his rational side, which is one of the reasons why he can't engulf it or her in love?"
"In fact, it seems the only things that are not fully restored are his relationships with Jack and Martha."

Donna says Ten needs someone to stop him. During the third series, Ten may hope that 'someone' is Martha. Rose in the second series tends to disagree with the Doctor less and less. Maybe Ten is afraid Martha would become like this once their love is mutual?

If he can't love Martha back is because Martha is his rational side, then maybe he punishes Jack by destroying his vortex manipulator is because he wants to punish himself, to punish this eternal wanderer in his heart. He knows it's time to change. To change some of his old ways. Without the Time Lord society, he has nothing to rebel against. And his 'I don't do domestic' attitude doesn't make his human companions(Rose, Sarah Jane) very happy. He'd like to change, but he doesn't know how to stop. The punishment upon Jack is also a self-punishment.

And the Master is his dark and irrational side waken by the Time War. So he tries to become reconciled and coexist with it.

"Hmm. The implication could be 'end of an era' or it could be 'ongoing story'. "
"In a way it's a pity that TLOTTL was the end of the series because it left us hanging and it left the situation at the end of that episode look much more static and permanent than it actually may be. I'm trying to readjust to seeing it as part of an ongoing continuum."

I agree. That's the problem. We don't know the big picture. And maybe something will even get retconned in the next series...

Re: The Doctor: Transformation or Stasis? (1)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Donna says Ten needs someone to stop him.

I am not sure how much I believe her. Partly it's that I think she doesn't understand the Doctor in the least - she's not the sharpest tack in the toolbox, and if she's had a moment of insight, it's probably a fluke. But as spokesperson for Russell T. Davies, well... There's the implication that we are supposed to believe her. And certainly not all the Doctor's ideas are good, and sometimes he's dangerous, and he knows it. He is painfully aware at times of his own fallibility.

But can anyone - should anyone - actually control him? He has reasonably good values and judgement, or at least, has chosen well so far whenever faced with a crisis. (Sometiems by luck.) He works best, it seems, in tandem with a human he likes. It makes me wonder, in fact, what would happen if his mad scheme had worked out, if he and the Master had gone off into the space-time continuum together - could he (as I think he hoped) have restored the Master to sanity? Or would the Master have driven him crazy?

During the third series, Ten may hope that 'someone' is Martha. Rose in the second series tends to disagree with the Doctor less and less. Maybe Ten is afraid Martha would become like this once their love is mutual?

Maybe. He might fear that his influence on her would be so great that her influence on him - the steadying, humanistic balance he's looking for, if that's what it is - would be erased.

My interpretation is that he's still hurting because of Rose, not just her loss becasue he misses her (which is bad enough) but because he knows she's living a future that isn't what she wanted, that her heart was broken on being forced to leave him. He doesn't want to break Martha's heart that way - much better to let her think he's oblivious to her love, and that he's simply clueless. Because if she knew he loved her, it would be harder for both of them.

Re: The Doctor: Transformation or Stasis? (2)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

maybe he punishes Jack by destroying his vortex manipulator is because he wants to punish himself, to punish this eternal wanderer in his heart.

That make perfect sense to me. Just as it makes sense that controlling Jack is a way of controlling parts of himself. (Including libido.) I argued that it's a way of keeping Jack where he can find him - and it is - but it's also a way of keeping himself away from Jack, since he knows where Jack is and he can avoid him - cutting himself off from those aspects of life or himself that he wants to deny himself, or fears, or resents.

And the Master is his dark and irrational side waken by the Time War. So he tries to become reconciled and coexist with it.

One of my favourite moments in the whole Master trilogy - and forgive me that I can't directly quote - is when the Master is asking the Doctor about the destruction of Gallifrey, and says how maginficent it must have been to have all that power, destroying two great civilizations. I think the Doctor is afraid of that side of himself, too - the decision-making that effects multitudes and that changes the future. The satisfaction in winning has to be balanced by a certianty of being 'right' in all circumstances, and that's an intimidating prospect - conceputally untenable. We've seen the Doctor having trouble with this on various occasions - "The Parting of the Ways" may be the most significant, but there have been lots of such occasions.

So with the Master he had to deal with the irrational and immoral side of himself, and (literally) embrace it. With the loss of the Master he's thrown back on the old self with the old self-correcting aids who keep him balanced, his Companions. It strikes me as interesting here - and I'll have to think through the implications - that though they both love him still at the end of "The Last of the Time Lords" (and make it clear) they both leave him - their choices, not his. Put aside the idea that this is convenient for Russell T. Davies and the plots they have coming up - it puts the Doctor in another frame of mind, a clear start, a chance to recover his own emotional equilibrium without the past loves/influences of whatever Martha, Jack and the Master represent. Which, I would guess, is as follows:

Martha - reason (concern for others?)
the Master - irrationality (ego?)
Jack - emotion (heroism?)

maybe something will even get retconned in the next series...

There's an intriguing degree of unpredictability.