Doctor Who: Looking at Journey's End again...

[fajrdrako]

This afternoon commodorified, iclysdale and auriaephiala came over to watch Doctor Who. Because iclysdale had missed a few weeks we watched 'The Stolen Earth' and then part of the Confidential that went with it, before moving on to 'Journey's End'.

I liked "Journey's End" more the second time round, maybe because I knew what to expect. Totally loved parts of it; loved it almost as much, in fact, as "Doomsday".

1. If Jack had appeared in it more, it might be my favourite Jack episode. He was brave, resourceful, flirty, smart, and had great rapport with the Doctor. I'd have liked more banter between them, but was happy with what we got. Loved his lines; his reactions; his flirting with Sarah Jane, his rapport with everyone - even the exended hug with Mickey. When did they learn to like each other?
   
   
2. On first viewing I was somewhat upset about what the Doctor did to Donna - to save her life, yes, but I believed there must be some other way - that surely if Time Lord psychic powers could save her by taking her memory, surely the Doctor could save her by restoring her mind as it was but leaving the memories of their other times together, like Rose after "The Parting of the Ways".
   
   This time round, I saw it differently. To save the universe, someone had to make a great and tragic sacrifice. Donna didn't sacrifice her life, she sacrificed the things that made her most special, her times with the Doctor and the self-esteem and depth she had acquired through not just travelling with him, but the learning and focus and ingenuity she had acquired in looking for him after 'The Runaway Bride'.
   
   This time round, that seemed a tragedy of epic proportions. and I loved it.
   
   I hope she does recover her memory, and survive. I hope she has more growth and adventures. But if she doesn't - we know, the Doctor knows, and one day River Song will know.
   
   
3. Mickey grew on me a little the second time round. I still feel that Jackie had no real role there, and Sarah Jane was woefully underused - though I loved her dialogue with Davros.
   
   
4. auriaephiala pointed out that the human Doctor would have every reason to be hurt that Rose treated him as second best. I wonder to what extent he has the Doctor's psychic and intellectual powers? And I wonder how Rose will adjust to a Doctor who talks like Donna Noble?
   
   I think Rose was in love with the Doctor's lifestyle as well as with the Doctor. I wonder how she will adjust to a Doctor who doesn't have that lifestyle, and how he will adjust to life on her world. I wonder if her world will be part of the coming Cybermen story. (Why does Christmas seem so far away?)
   
   
5. Dalek Caan and Davros disappeared behind a wall of fire. They could reappear when and if the producers decide to do a Dalek story again.
   
   
6. What did the Doctor actually feel about his human self killing the Daleks? He had once done the same. Does he really think he is morally superior now? Would he really not have killed the Daleks if he could have? For all her defense of the defenseless Dalek in 'Dalek', Rose was ready enough to shoot them when they were in attack mode and threatening her world or any other. Surely the Doctor's decision to not act was as dangerous an act of destruction as anything his human self did.
   
   I'm not taking sides here - I'm a pacifist and hope not to ever be in the Doctor's position there. But I can't see a moral problem with the human Doctor's action: it was pragmatic, perhaps, but it was done to prevent a greater wrong.
   
   I wish the Doctor have given a defense of his actions to Davros. I love his streak of guilt and his customary hair shirt, but his actions in the Time War or at any other time have a rational and ethical basis - I'd like to see him speak in his own defense. Eloquently.
   
   I would have liked to see the human Doctor do the same.

Comments

[walkingowl.livejournal.com]

...Enjoying reading your chatty comments about shared evenings, especially today when I'm not only tired from work, but also all grungey from it too, and longing for a shower but still an hour away from home by car... glad that part isn't evident in print! Forget I said anything! But, y'know, the longing-for-a-shower part is part of the finally-out-of-work-for-the-day thing and I just am right in the middle of that mindset right now.

Just ignore me. I'll feel better after I've gotten home to my cats, and especially after I've finally seen these episodes myself! Looking forward... and forward... and even farther forward....

Xmas Teaser Trailer

[raissad.livejournal.com]

Here's a treat -- the Christmas teaser trailer (http://blogtorwho.blogspot.com/2008/07/2008-christmas-special-teaser.html) from the end of the ep.

Re: Xmas Teaser Trailer

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Now, that is a treat. Doesn't the Doctor look good in the first shot? and David Morrissey looks good, too.

And eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Cybermen.

[kel-reiley.livejournal.com]

on the point of doctor 10.5 and killing all the daleks
well, in 'parting of the ways' the doctor (nine) in the end, does not go through with the... whatever the thing he was building was called (i forget, but jack knew what it was) b/c it would not only kill the daleks but everyone on the game station, too - but rose, having sucked up the tardis into her head, DOES kill all the daleks... right? she turned them all to dust and then brought jack back
i'm not sure if i had a point there... i just thought it worth mentioning

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Yes, and it's an interesting point. The Doctor killed the Daleks in the Time War; they came back in 'The Parting of the Ways' and the Doctor decided not to kill them; then Rose killed them; then the human Doctor kills them in 'Journey's End'... and no one blames Rose for genocide, nor do I see Rose dwelling on it. I wonder what she thinks the Doctor thinks of that? I wonder what he does think of that? Rose can do no wrong? Or is the human Doctor simply a scapegoat for the Time Lord's guilty conscience?

[kel-reiley.livejournal.com]

hmm... thought process
Doctor1: there can't be two of me, i'm special, you take away my specialness, YOU! go in another universe, this one is mine
Rose: but but but
Doctor2: whisper whisper i can be cool too, see?
Rose: well ok
Doctor1: there now, i'm special

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Good thinking. Since Rose's universe didn't have a Doctor, might as well send the spare!

I never did understand why Rose had to go back. The wall between the universes was closing, but that other universe wasn't her native universe anyway. Couldn't she just stay?

[kel-reiley.livejournal.com]

i think the whole point was to give closure to rose's whole storyline
and, y'know, maybe this time when the walls seal closed they'll really be closed

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

It made for a good story. And maybe the point was - though this was never stated - it was Rose's moment of truth, to chose between a normal life with the human Doctor, or the travelling life with the Time Lord. And she chose the mortal Doctor, even though she made it clear she preferred the Time Lord.

I see the rationale on the part of Russell T Davies, yes - closure, and a chance to bring back Rose and make a splash. I just didn't understand the logic within the storyline. Rose wasn't falling through the void this time. She must have been able to choose not to go back.

Or would that have put all the universes out of synch again, and wrought mass destruction?

[kel-reiley.livejournal.com]

plot hole? what plot hole?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

It needed more explanation than it got. I can think of any number of ways it makes sense - the crucial point being the Doctor's mixed feelings about companionship. Or something.

I think he wanted Rose to be happy, but he didn't want her with him. Whatever desire or potential he had to stay with her, it went with the human Doctor.