Happy Canada Day...
Jul. 1st, 2008 09:28 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
fajrdrakoA lovely Canada Day morning, and I'm sitting in a hotel room in the largest city in Canada feeling mellow. I just finished watching the Doctor Who Confidential from last week; I'm thinking about breakfast. It's a beautiful sunny day, and we're driving home after we have something to eat.
I used to be such an internationalist that I was uncomfrotable with patriotic sentiment - as if the ideologies conflicted.
Now, I think Canada is a terrific place and I am increasingly rather proud of my country, despite our current Prime Minister and his policies. It isn't just the lordly rivers, much as I love them, but things like gay marriage and medical care multiculturalism and Little Mosque on the Prairie and Paul Gross and Leonard Cohen - and think of each of the above as symbolic of so much more.
Canada has never been a melting-pot; more like a tossed salad. - Arnold Edinborough
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Date: 2008-07-01 02:48 pm (UTC)I, too, feel uncomfortable with patriotism. A feeling of pride in your city/country, etc is understandable and benign. It's when it becomes fanatical and scary that it's not good.
I'm so happy you got to see John Barrowman in person -- how wonderful! Give
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Date: 2008-07-01 03:30 pm (UTC)Re patriotism: it has its pitfalls, but if we all individually try to help make our homeland the best it can be, regardless of what country we're in ... we'll end up with a better world. And that doesn't mean overlooking a country's flaws, but doing our best to fix them.
Yes, seeing John Barrowman was wonderful. I hope someday I can see one of his concerts.
Ahem. ;-)
Date: 2008-07-01 03:38 pm (UTC)Re: Ahem. ;-)
Date: 2008-07-01 04:15 pm (UTC)Appreciable views
Date: 2008-07-01 05:15 pm (UTC)Re: Appreciable views
Date: 2008-07-04 02:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-01 03:42 pm (UTC)Not Little Mosque? LHotP is set in the American Midwest.
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Date: 2008-07-04 02:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-01 05:19 pm (UTC)Trivia (okay, it's not trivial) I don't know the answer to: it was Dominion Day when I was growing up spending my summers there. When did it change? (I know why it changed, I just don't remember when.)
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Date: 2008-07-04 02:37 pm (UTC)I'll be there! With a fancy hat.
it was Dominion Day when I was growing up spending my summers there. When did it change?
From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_Day):
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Date: 2008-07-01 07:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-02 01:02 am (UTC)But I suppose another Great Argument would arise.
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Date: 2008-07-02 05:56 am (UTC)"Great Argument"? My, you people are so polite about things. In the States, we resort to blatant and aggravated name-calling fests and sue each other a lot. Myself excluded. But I do have a lawyer, and she likes me, so... watch it. [g]
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Date: 2008-07-02 06:10 am (UTC)Heard and understood. I'll be careful.
Weirdly, I think one of the relative handful of things that we've been having lawsuits and name-calling about - with some small cause, mayhap - has been the Hockey Night in Canada theme music...
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Date: 2008-07-02 04:17 pm (UTC)Here's a change for ya that makes no rational sense but appeals to all the best and worst aspects of both patriotism and "patriotism": in 1953 or so, some doofus got the idea to add a two words to the American chant that is called the Pledge of Allegiance. It used to go like this (and I learned it this way in school in the early '60s, thank goodness for a sensible teacher): "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. God save the Queen!" (Wait, strike that last part.)
The two words are "under God." To this day, I refuse to say them when I say the Pledge.
Heard and understood. I'll be careful.
I was kidding...! And why do I hear an echo of Luke Skywalker in the bar, there?
As for the Hockey Night in Canada... well, I'd say the lawsuits are totally justified [ha]. And eh, how 'bout those Penguins! They did exactly what the Senators did last year! I'm so proud of my team!!
Nice talkin' to ya!
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Date: 2008-07-02 04:29 pm (UTC)I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the Republic that it established, one Nation out of many Peoples, with Liberty and Justice for all.
Not being a USA citizen, I may have been out of place doing so. But your opinion may differ on the subect.
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Date: 2008-07-02 05:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-04 02:44 pm (UTC)I don't think I approve of constitutions, though I've yet to find anyone who agrees with me on that.
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Date: 2008-07-05 03:51 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-05 04:03 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-05 05:36 am (UTC)I like to drop by from time to time. Catch up on what's going on.
Well, it certainly is good to see you when you do!
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Date: 2008-07-05 02:04 pm (UTC)Donna Noble. Companion to the Doctor in series 4. Donna is wonderful.
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Date: 2008-07-05 03:54 am (UTC)Why don't you approve of constitutions? Is it that, as soon as the rules are written out, someone will find ways to get around them without actually breaking them?
The founders of my country didn't do a constitution right away. They wrote up the Articles of Confederation first. Massively leaning towards states' rights. The central federal government didn't even have the power to tax the individual states. After several years of that, they all got back together again and wrote a constitution.
So, I was just wondering. Why you don't think that might have been a good thing.
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Date: 2008-07-05 04:10 am (UTC)It is because once something becomes codified, it becomes inflexible. It tends to make people believe one thing and not notice when the reality is different - a nation might describe itself in its constitution as 'free' for example, but that doesn't define what freedom is - something that probably can't be defined. But what can happen is: a perfectly good country has restrictive laws, even imprisonment without trial or legal representation, and still believes itself to be 'free' and in keeping with its constitution. That's a form of hypocrisy, or at least self-delusion.
The joy of laws is that they are meant to be flexible, to change with time and the will of the people. Constitutions are frozen place like statues, and can be used like weapons, or ignored by those in power.
I don't think constitutions are bad things, but I don't think they do what they are intended to do - safeguard the values of a nation. I think constitutions are unnecessary at best.
It's the same sort of objection I have to religion based on books - it becomes a kind of dogma, and the real underlying meanings are blurred.
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Date: 2008-07-05 05:43 am (UTC)it becomes a kind of dogma, and the real underlying meanings are blurred.
What about when there is an active process of amending the constitution? Which the U.S. does have a history of doing. We even refer to the rights ensured by these amendments by the number of the amendment -- the First Amendment, freedom of speech and freedom of assembly, those things. The Fifth Amendment, the right not to incriminate yourself -- the right to refuse to answer a question in court.
Come to think of it, that's not a good argument FOR a constitution. It basically provides support for the argument you make against them: people try to draft amendments that import even more stricture into the constitution. Eh. Rainy-day chat!
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Date: 2008-07-05 02:14 pm (UTC)There usually is. I'm not sure that makes any difference. It can either be amended in a bad cause (like trying to prevent gay marriage!) or a good one. The principle is still that of Constitutional supremacy, and it's that principle I don't like.
We even refer to the rights ensured by these amendments by the number of the amendment -- the First Amendment, freedom of speech and freedom of assembly, those things.
Sure. It's the American way of doing things, and it isn't inherently bad, I just don't like it in this instance. If everyone allowed for fall human rights, putting those things in a Constitution wouldn't be necessary. Freedom of speech isn't exactly alive and well. And doesn't the US Constitution ensure that people can go around armed with guns? And the Constitution is adduced as justification for it? (Scary.)
It basically provides support for the argument you make against them: people try to draft amendments that import even more stricture into the constitution.
Yup. Which they would do anyway.
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Date: 2008-07-04 02:47 pm (UTC)Perhaps the French - Jour du Confederation?
Perhaps you heard that Dominion Day was the anniversary of Confederation, and misremembered the phrase?
Thanks for explaining about the Pledge. It disturbs me (slightly, I don't lose sleep over it or anything) that they have the words "God keep our land/Glorious and free" in O Canada. They all seem to have trouble with the 'separation of church and state' concept.
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Date: 2008-07-05 03:59 am (UTC)As for "God keep our land/Glorious and free" -- I occasionally enjoy messing with the minds of certain silly folk who try to say things like "We need to get God back into our government, like the Founding Fathers wanted!!" by telling them how many of the Founders (including Jefferson) were deists. Who didn't believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ. And who were, during their lives, accused of being outright atheists. Boy, does that alter the conversational mood.
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Date: 2008-07-05 04:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-05 05:46 am (UTC)Sad, though, that the Founders were so bloody careful to keep all references to God out of the documents, but also did not put in anything about true equality -- slavery was at the time much too important to the health of the economy.
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Date: 2008-07-05 02:17 pm (UTC)What can they say? You are toppling their dearest convictions, which are totally based on lies and illusions. They can't say you're wrong, because you aren't. They can't say they are right, because it's a belief, not a truth.
Sad, though, that the Founders were so bloody careful to keep all references to God out of the documents, but also did not put in anything about true equality -- slavery was at the time much too important to the health of the economy.
So it goes. Even now, there's care given not to interfere with the needs of big business. Or whoever/whatever the big economic power-base is.
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Date: 2008-07-04 02:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-04 02:38 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-07-01 09:37 pm (UTC)*makes mental note that 1st of July is Canada Day* Learning new things here every day...
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Date: 2008-07-04 02:39 pm (UTC)Canada became a country on July 1, 1867. We've celebrated ever since. (Not me personally, I wasn't born then. But it's still a great day to party.)
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Date: 2008-07-01 10:20 pm (UTC)I'm glad you had a relaxing time away ... I could do with one of those myself. It will not happen, though, till I've spent a few more months on the New Job (i.e. this summer is pretty close to a lost cause). Maybe September or afterward ...
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Date: 2008-07-04 02:40 pm (UTC)Most of Canada Day was spent on highway 401, actually, but that was fun too.
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Date: 2008-07-02 06:03 am (UTC)That's close to what patriotism really is, in my mind. Just being who you are, and knowing it, and appreciating it and enjoying it. Well, enjoying the best parts of it. I know you probably won't fully understand the American point of view, but I'll try again to describe it... here I am, ten generations Pennsylvania Dutch and nine generations Welsh-American, plus some native too, in the middle of one of the most populous states with one of the coolest state nicknames (the Keystone State, for both map-image and cultural/political reasons), feeling happy with a great deal of my heritage and loving the ideals under which my country was founded (not to mention the ideals under which my commonwealth [aka state] was founded), at the same time that I am deeply and bitterly ashamed of what is happening with my country right now, and how certain factions have commandeered those founding principles and twisted the words to mean things that they really don't mean. It's all there. Patriotism.
I am quite glad to hear that you spent so much time doing nothing in a hotel room in Toronto [ha!] and also spent other amounts of time, apparently, having a good time outside the hotel room, in Toronto, and I guess I entertained only the budgies yesterday when I phoned your place and asked rhetorically, "So, how do you solve a problem like Maria?"
Apologizing for that right now, I am. But at the time it seemed apt. Heh.
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Date: 2008-07-04 02:43 pm (UTC)I do that sometimes.
I don't like the word 'patriotism' for a lot of reasons, and 'nationalism' isn't much better. But I'm pretty pro-Canada, especially lately. There's bad stuff - war in Afghanistan, a right-wing PM, lack of official governmental concern about the environment - but there are good things too, and I cherish them.
Besides. Canadians are really nice people.
You solve a problem like Maria by importing John Barrowmanm for a few days every week. Can you think of any better way to do it?