A few more comments on Doctor Who "The Doctor's Daughter"...

[fajrdrako]

I watched "The Doctor's Daughter" again. A couple of times, maybe. A few thoughts and comments...

1. Why are all the other Messalinians born apparently as teens or young adults when Cobb is comparatively old? Playing with the scenario, I concluded that they aren't all so young when created - that it's a random spread of age, and just happens that Cobb got the far end of the spectrum.
   
   
2. Why are there more men than women? Maybe the machine thinks at first that men's strength is needed for setting up the new planet? Alternate: it's malfunctining. Alternate: we don't see enough of a population sample to guess, and death rates could be unequal.
   
   
3. Why is Jenny born with make-up? Well, why not? The machine could make people any way it wanted. It was being playful, or artistic, or altering people for variety. Or maybe it was a release of the Doctor's formely-hidden desire for more mascara.
   
   
4. I love this episode for numerous reasons, but the highlight by far is the scene of the Doctor pointing the gun at Cobb's head and breathing heavily. Woo. I love the 'pacifist' theme that's been running through this series, particuarly the banter between Jenny and the Doctor on the subject.
   
   
5. I love her self-confidence and her sense of self. So very like the Doctor.
   
   
6. Why are they set up in a theatre? Does this imply that the machine (or the machine-makers) thought one of the first important buildings of any city should be a theatre? I approve, of course! How right they are. I hope they provided playscripts as well. Imagine the population being born with the talents and skills of actors rather than soldiers, and the belief that they must act on stage as their life's work.
   
   On second thought... a society made entirely of actors could never be viable. But - perhaps the machine is meant to churn out people of all professions and types, people born as librarians and dentists and marathon runners and coffee-makers. And it developed a glitch and suddenly everyone was being born thinking they were soldiers - so of course there was a war.
   
   
7. How did they know what a day was? Or sunlight? Had they ever seen either? Perhaps they were just implanted with the knowledge of such.
   
   
8. Love the way the show brings in the word 'forever'.
   
   
9. I have mixed feelings about the parting of Martha and the Doctor. I wish it didn't happen because I want her to stay on the TARDIS. But I love the way she loves him but goes for Tom anyway - it reminds me of Gwen Cooper loving Jack Harkness but choosing Rhys for many good reasons, including love. I love the way the show doesn't make the relationships simple. And the Doctor's claim that the pain of loss has destroyed something in him goes a way towards explaining some of his reactions to those who love. He's so damaged.
   
   
10. Love Martha warning Donna about what can happen with the Doctor. Death, torture, enslavement. But he's wonderful - just dangerous at the same time.
    
    
11. I wonder if Martha told Tom all about the Doctor, and about her travels. Or not. Would he think her crazy? If not, why not?
    

Comments

[raissad.livejournal.com]

I wonder if Martha told Tom all about the Doctor, and about her travels. Or not. Would he think her crazy? If not, why not?

Given that she first met Tom during an alternate future, then rang him up as a complete stranger when things were corrected, and went off to work for UNIT, I'd say she probably did tell him, just so this bizarre context would make sense to him.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

It would be interesting to see that conversation, when Martha first told him of her experiences - ! If I had more of a handle on it, I'd like to write it as a fic. Must think about this.

[raissad.livejournal.com]

You don't have a handle on it, because we haven't seen Tom since TLotTL. Personally, I would love for Martha and Tom to travel with the Doctor as a couple Even with the very real dangers, I think it would be life affirming for all three of them.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I too would love to see Tom on the TARDIS with Martha, even if just for one episode, or even just a brief visit. It would tie things together so nicely, and give him a place in the story. From what we saw of him in TLofTL, he would be good on an adventure.

[raissad.livejournal.com]

And the Doctor's claim that the pain of loss has destroyed something in him goes a way towards explaining some of his reactions to those who love. He's so damaged.

The damage is part of it, but there are other issues...

First, the Doctor is an alien. Even if sex is part of his relationship equation (which can and will be debated forever), I guarantee you that the social dynamic around any physical intercourse would be vastly different based on glimpses we get of Gallifreyan society. Apart from anything else, he might not have the energy given other demands on him to explain the nuances to the people he meets.

Second, he may have been a family man once, but after everything he's been through, he'd now make a better boyfriend than husband. Martha obviously wants a husband, so even if they had gotten together for a while, Martha would've eventually left him for another man anyway.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I agree that Martha obviously wants a husband - and I've no fault with your reasoning, but I'd be happy with even a temporary Martha/Doctor relationship - which in its way, is what I got, but I didn't get the warmth I wanted.

I know fans debate this sort of thing forever: I'm just stating my preferences. I don't want a cold, lonely Doctor as much as I want a warm, heartbroken one.

[raissad.livejournal.com]

I prefer warm and heartbroken, myself. The colder incarnations were never my favorite.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I think the show in general has done a wonderful job of creating a Doctor who fits all sizes - who can be warm or cold, passionate or closed off, angry or sweet - depending on circumstances. And we can interpret his reactions and his relationships as we wish, which to my way of thinking is a great advantage.

[duncanmac.livejournal.com]

I too enjoyed the show, though I admit that the end scenes (with Jenny's "revival") stretched credibility till it pretty much snapped. There were other credibility-stretching scenes, but you seem to have covered most of them.

If the colonists have only been around for a few *days*, the questions multiply like rabbits ... I found that claim the one most likely to stretch credibility (except for Jenny's fate).

I too liked the scenes of Martha's departure. I'm not sure that love counted for as much as a desire to live out her life more normally ... but I could be wrong, as I've missed most of the shows with her in it.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

stretched credibility till it pretty much snapped

You are watching a TV show about time travel. It always amazes me to see what bits and pieces will snap people's suspension of disbelief! My own problem areas are never where other people's are, and I loved the ending of the show. If only because it gives me hope of seeing more of Jenny in future.

I found that claim the one most likely to stretch credibility

I agree with that.

I'm not sure that love counted for as much as a desire to live out her life more normally ...

Yes, well, I never like characters wanting a 'normal' life. I don't want a normal life myself - I'd much rather see characters who want adventure and heroism. And I never saw much desire for 'normality' in Martha, who is a high-achiever at the far end of risk-taking. After all, she pretty much took on the Master and defeated him. But I think her greatest challenge was in being a maid in a racist era in "Human Nature".

[auriaephiala.livejournal.com]

I think the most likely interpretation is Doylist: either Freema Agyeman or David Tennant or Russell T Davies or the BBC didn't want to continue her character.

Keeping to a Watsonian interpretation, however, perhaps Martha wanted recognition for her efforts. Even when she saved the world, almost no one knew about it. Maybe also she wants a person who is more emotionally dependable; she probably figures she can rely on the Doctor to save her as a side effect of saving the world, but she'll never be sure that he won't go emotionally cold on her, or reject her in the nicest possible way.

I can see Martha moving to a leadership position in an NGO or a research establishment, or maybe setting up in a group practice as a doctor. Eventually, I see her going into politics and doing a good job.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Freema Agyeman or David Tennant or Russell T Davies or the BBC didn't want to continue her character.

Probably true. My guess that RTD wanted to vary the length/duration and expectations of a companion so fans would not see the same thing each time - i.e., a two-series stint, or companions who all wanted to stay with the Doctor 'forever'. But he doesn't want to kill them off, either.

Interesting that Donna now says she wants to travel with the Doctor "forever", just as Rose said.

she probably figures she can rely on the Doctor to save her as a side effect of saving the world, but she'll never be sure that he won't go emotionally cold on her, or reject her in the nicest possible way.

I can believe that.

Eventually, I see her going into politics and doing a good job.

That would be fun! I wouldn't mind seeing her run UNIT.

[auriaephiala.livejournal.com]

I never like characters wanting a 'normal' life. I don't want a normal life myself - I'd much rather see characters who want adventure and heroism. And I never saw much desire for 'normality' in Martha, who is a high-achiever at the far end of risk-taking.

That is true, but perhaps her adventures with the Doctor have made Martha see places she wants to work to improve things in her own time. And she is very attached to her family, and wouldn't want to lose them, especially after the events re the Master.

And I think adventure often finds us unexpectedly.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

perhaps her adventures with the Doctor have made Martha see places she wants to work to improve things in her own time

I think that's true, and I really have no complaints about Martha's choice not to travel with the Doctor any more. Though I read her choice a more as personal thing than wanting a normal life: she's in love with him, he's made it clear he's not interested in a romantic relationship with her, so she's found Tom Milligan and is going to make a life with him. It's a different kind of adventure.

I think adventure often finds us unexpectedly.

Which is as it should be.

New DW Tie-In Novel Coming

[raissad.livejournal.com]

Check this out...

The Story Of Martha by Dan Abnett

The full story of Martha Jones' 'lost year' helping defeat the Master - the latest in the bestselling Doctor Who Fiction range from BBC Books. For a year, while the Master ruled over Earth, Martha Jones travelled the world telling people stories about the Doctor. She told people of how the Doctor has saved them before, and how he will save them again. This is that story. It tells of Martha's travels from her arrival on Earth as the Toclafane attacked and decimated the population through to her return to Britain to face the Master. It tells how she spread the word and told people about the Doctor. The story of how she survived that terrible year. But it's more than that. This is also a collection of the stories she tells - the stories of adventures she had with the Doctor that we haven't heard about before. The stories that inspired and saved the world...

http://www.gallifreyone.com/news.php

Re: New DW Tie-In Novel Coming

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Sounds good - if it's well written. I'm trying to remember whether I like Dan Abnett's writing... he does comic books, I know him from that, but he's seldom written comics I read. And Torchwood - he wrote Border Princes. It was excellent! Yes, this will probably be very good.

I wonder if I can persuade my local library to buy it?