Buffy the Vampire Slayer (2x17) - Passion

[fajrdrako]

Love the way Angel's comments on 'passion' are used as a frame for the episode. "Passion rules us all. And we obey. What other choice do we have?" This is opposite of the mindless vampire, without feelings, who is simply driven by hunger for blood.

Nice to see that the consequences of having invited a vampire into one's home are addressed, and that there is a way to rescind the invitation.

1. Xander seems to have forgotten what a library is. I still don't recognize Jonathan on sight.
   
   
2. Great Giles line: "Yes, Xander, once more you've managed to boil a complex thought down to its simplest possible form." I like it when Giles appreciates Xander.
   
   
3. Why does Giles tell Buffy she can't tell Joyce that she's the Slayer? Or about Angel? Is this 'Watcher's handbook' stuff or does he not trust Joyce?
   
   
4. This made me laugh:

   Buffy: But I've gotta tell her something. I've gotta do something. Giles, Angel has an all-access pass to my house, and I'm not always there when my mother is. I can't protect her.
   Giles: I told you I will find a-a spell.
   Buffy: What about *until* you find a spell?
   Cordelia: Until then, you and your mother are welcome to ride around with me in my car.

   
   
5. Xander says, "How come Buffy doesn't get a snotty 'once again you boil it down to the simplest form' thing?" Which means that the line I took as appreciation from Giles, Xander took as sarcasm. I like his rejoinder: "Watcher's pet."
   
   
6. Goodline from Giles: "Since Angel lost his soul, he's regained his sense of whimsy." If that's what you call it.
   
   
7. Love this:

   Jenny: I know you feel betrayed.
   Giles: Yes. Well, that's one of the unpleasant side effects of betrayal.

   Her declaration of love seems to mollify him somewhat. And I must say, her feelings seem more sincere than they ever did before.
   
   
8. Joyce says to Buffy, "Come on. You can tell me anything. I've read all the parenting books. You cannot surprise me." You know, I think my mother said exactly those words to me once. And I think I gave her exactly the same "You have got to be kidding" look that Buffy gives Joyce.
   
   
9. So Angel goes after Willow's fish. Ugh.
   
   
10. I like the way Willow points out to Buffy that Angel is still obsessed with her. "You're still the only thing he thinks about."
    
    
11. Angel and Spike are being testy with each other. Drusilla is enjoying it.
    
    
12. A tiny place like Sunnydale has a Gypsy occult shop. That's very cool. And they have a Thesulan Orb in stock. Also cool. Sometimes I think Joss takes his names of stuff from Doctor Strange comics.
    
    
13. Jenny says, "I'm working on a computer program to translate the Rumanian liturgy to English based on a random sampling of the text." Does that make any sense at all? Not that I can figure. But hey, it's magic.
    
    
14. The exchange does lead to one of those brilliant lines that ends the scene and reminds me of some of Dorothy Dunnett's great scene-enders:

    Shopkeeper: By the way... Not that it's any of my business, really, but, uh, what are you planning on conjuring up? If you can decipher the text?
    Jenny: A present for a friend of mine.
    Shopkeeper: Really? What are you gonna give him?
    Jenny: His soul.

    I like this because I'd been thinking in terms of Jenny doing something for Buffy (whose life she helped to ruin) or Giles (whom she betrayed) but it's all the better in that she's planning to help Angel - who saved her life - and whom she calls a friend still, though everyone else has given him up for evil.
    
    
15. I love the way Willow gets into teaching with enthusiasm: "I have a class to teach in about five minutes, and I have to arrive early to glare disapprovingly at the stragglers. Oh, darn. She's here. Five hours of lesson planning yesterday down the drain..."
    
    
16. Buffy makes it clear she doesn't like or forgive Jenny, but her speech about Giles is very gallant: "He misses you. He doesn't say anything, I mean, but I know he does. And I don't want him to be lonely. I don't want anyone to."
    
    
17. It's interesting and scary that Angel does the drawing of Joyce. Even more so that he approaches her. And from Buffy's point of view, even scarier that he tells her that he and Buffy had sex - making it clear that he is and was a dangerous older man.
    
    
18. Jenny tells Giles that Buffy said he missed her and Giles calls Buffy "a meddlesome girl". But he doesn't seem terribly displeased.
    
    
19. Then Angel goes and terrorizes Jenny. Good scene. Then he kills her. Oooh. "I never get tired of doing that." Angel doesn't seem to feed much - he seems to like killing for its own sake. I may be wrong but it seems to me the only times we've seen him feed on someone is when he wants to create another vampire. (Assuming he can do this deliberately.)
    
    
20. I liked it that Giles offers to intevene with Joyce, but really has nothing he can say. It's up to Buffy. And the talk is as awkward as one might wish, but Joyce comes through with, "Buffy, you can shut me out of your life, I am pretty much used to that. But don't expect me to ever stop caring about you, because it's never gonna happen. I love you more than anything in the world. That would be your cue to, uh, roll your eyes and tell me I'm grossing you out." But Buffy isn't grossed, she needs all the support she can get, and she can't begin to tell Joyce how bad it is with Angel.
    
    
21. Good atmosphere to Giles' discovery of Jenny's body. (Sniff. I feel for him.)
    
    
22. So Giles goes after Angel with his 'good' weapons and we get this interesting diatribe from Xander:

    Xander: I'm sorry, but let's not forget that I hated Angel long before you guys jumped on the bandwagon. So I think I deserve a little something for not saying 'I told you so' long before now. And if Giles wants to go after the, uh, (looks up at Buffy) fiend that murdered his girlfriend, I say, 'Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!'
    Buffy: You're right.

    Except that I believe Buffy still loves Angel, and I don't think she'll be able to kill him even if she thinks she should.
    
    
23. Angel says, "Angelus: Don't worry, roller boy. I've got everything under control." And then Giles attacks. Sometimes I wish this show was "Giles the Vampire Slayer". The man has style. And Angel (who can't pretend he's in control) says, "Jeez, whatever happened to wooden stakes?"
    
    
24. So Buffy saves Giles. Love her lines: "Are you trying to get yourself killed?! You can't leave me. I can't do this alone." I love this: much as I enjoy the Buffy/Angel relationship, I lvoe her interaction with Giles.
    
    
25. Angel says, "Passion is the source of our finest moments. The joy of love... the clarity of hatred... and the ecstasy of grief. If we could live without passion, maybe we'd know some kind of peace. But we would be hollow. Without passion, we'd be truly dead."
    
    
26. And Buffy says, " I can't hold on to the past anymore. Angel has gone. Nothing's ever gonna bring him back." I don't believe her.
    
    
    

Comments

[teaphile.livejournal.com]

3. That's just the way it's always been done. AFAIK, Buffy's the first slayer to have a family -- all the rest were taken from their parents at a young age, like Kendra.

Giles + flaming baseball bat = OTP.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

That's just the way it's always been done.

Huh.

all the rest were taken from their parents at a young age

I wonder if the parents knew why.

Giles + flaming baseball bat = OTP.

Yeah!

[liliaeth]

Kendra's parents apparantly knew.

[gillo]

This is opposite of the mindless vampire, without feelings, who is simply driven by hunger for blood.

Exactly. It's all about the pain.

And I must say, her feelings seem more sincere than they ever did before.

Swan songs can be like that.

Angel and Spike are being testy with each other. Drusilla is enjoying it.

What evil girl doesn't love her boys squabbling in front of her?

I love the way Willow gets into teaching with enthusiasm: "I have a class to teach in about five minutes, and I have to arrive early to glare disapprovingly at the stragglers. Oh, darn. She's here. Five hours of lesson planning yesterday down the drain..."

They will come in useful eventually.

It's interesting and scary that Angel does the drawing of Joyce. Even more so that he approaches her. And from Buffy's point of view, even scarier that he tells her that he and Buffy had sex - making it clear that he is and was a dangerous older man.

It causes pain that way. And guess what it's all about?

Good atmosphere to Giles' discovery of Jenny's body. (Sniff. I feel for him.)

Heartbreaking scene, the more because there's been a reconciliation. Pain. Joss does that.

Angelus: Don't worry, roller boy. I've got everything under control.

Lovely snark. Poor Spike.

And Buffy says, " I can't hold on to the past anymore. Angel has gone. Nothing's ever gonna bring him back." I don't believe her.

No? She does.

So, you thought this ep was OK?

[spherissa.livejournal.com]

Heartbreaking scene, the more because there's been a reconciliation. Pain. Joss does that.

See, I'm not so sure on that. It is heartbreaking but I think if there'd been no reconciliation and no chance for one maybe worse.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Pretty bad either way; lots of regrets for Giles.

[gillo]

That moment when he thinks she's waiting for him in bed, the expression on his face - it makes the reality so much harder to bear. If he'd just found her without a reconciliation the shock would have been great, but the immediate pain less exquisite. Angelus is an artist of pain.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

It's all about the pain.

So I hear.

What evil girl doesn't love her boys squabbling in front of her?

I was enjoying her enjoyment.

No? She does.

Hee. I see what you mean, having now seen "Becoming". But I still argue my case: she killed Angel, but only after circumstances changed and made it necessary.

you thought this ep was OK?

I thought it was brilliant. A favourite.

[gillo]

So I hear.

It bears repeating. Through all seven seasons.

Hee. I see what you mean, having now seen "Becoming". But I still argue my case: she killed Angel, but only after circumstances changed and made it necessary.

Oh it takes her a while to grasp that what she must do is unavoidable. And there are plenty of twists and turns to come. But in the end the Mission takes priority.

I thought it was brilliant. A favourite.

It's very good. Joss does pain well. But it's not in my top ten. Or possibly even top twenty. You've reported two of those so far, and seen another pair. Later seasons have even more awesome episodes.

[tzikeh.livejournal.com]

I may be wrong but it seems to me the only times we've seen him feed on someone is when he wants to create another vampire. (Assuming he can do this deliberately.)

We've seen him feed for blood right after he turned (the smoker), we've seen him feed for blood even in this episode (we think he's some guy making out with a girl as the gang goes by, and then we see him drop the body). What's so unbelievably cold (and awesome) about Jenny's death is that he can't even be *bothered* to feed on her. It's not even vampire-killing-a-victim, it's just Angelus snapping her neck after toying with her.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I like it that the vampires aren't just killing to live - i.e., to feed - but they sometimes kill out of spite or for the fun of it.

[katkim.livejournal.com]

I may be wrong but it seems to me the only times we've seen him feed on someone is when he wants to create another vampire. (Assuming he can do this deliberately.

I think Joss has said that it's utmost sign of disrespect when they kill by breaking a neck, because the victim isn't worth feeding on.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I think Joss has said that it's utmost sign of disrespect when they kill by breaking a neck, because the victim isn't worth feeding on.

Cool. I like that.

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

I always find the beginning of this when Angelus is stalking Buffy to be very creepy - especially the shot of him dropping the girl he's just fed on after the gang walk past the "necking" couple. And the one of him just outside Buffy's window as she goes to bed *shivers*

The voiceover gives the episode a bit of an unusual feel, I think. They don't do that very much at all.

"Yes, Xander, once more you've managed to boil a complex thought down to its simplest possible form." I like it when Giles appreciates Xander

I've got to say, I've always taken that as sarcasm and exasperation on Giles' part.

Xander seems to have forgotten what a library is. I still don't recognize Jonathan on sight

So how did you know it was him? I like the bit when he and the girl come back out of the stacks and the rest have vanished.

Why does Giles tell Buffy she can't tell Joyce that she's the Slayer? Or about Angel?

Personally I've always taken it as 'dumb plot device'. I think teaphile's idea that it may have to do with not wanting Joyce to be aware of the Slaying because she'll interfere, or try to, is interesting. What mother wouldn't try to get in the way of something like that to protect their child? But I still don't really see that as a justification not to tell her when her life is quite obviously in danger - Angelus does have a history of killing the family of people he's obsessed with after all - and I find it hard to reconcile Giles taking the 'secrecy is essential' line with that. He's not normally so hidebound. Leaving Joyce in the dark at this point is trusting to luck - if she had known he was a vampire when she drove up the drive and saw him she would have turned right back around and driven away somewhere safe. It's only sheer chance that Buffy and Willow are there at the right moment to stop Angelus going in the house, otherwise Buffy would have been coming home to a nice little display.

Given the restrictions on Buffy, I think she does quite well with her explanation of why Angel should be avoided. She can't go too far in making it clear how dangerous he is though or her mom would want to call in the police.

Giles: Yes. Well, that's one of the unpleasant side effects of betrayal.

It's a great line. Though I have to say Jenny's follow up of "I was raised by the people Angel hurt the most" always makes me go "wow, entitlement much?" From what they've said, he didn't do anything worse to them than he did to Drusilla's family.

Willow: For the first time, I'm glad my parents didn't let me have a puppy

That makes me think about Giles' line in Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered about "Angel nailed a puppy to..." and Buffy cutting him off because she doesn't have a puppy.

Though Spike and Drusilla currently do.

Drusilla: Now, open for Mommy…

I love the way she makes aeroplane noises for that bit. And that when she goes off with Angelus, Spike is left cuddling the puppy.

Buffy makes it clear she doesn't like or forgive Jenny

Yeah. Though Jenny's response of "Don't worry, I will." to Buffy telling her to keep feeling bad made me like her more than I have up until now.

It's interesting and scary that Angel does the drawing of Joyce. Even more so that he approaches her

And scary how he is just playing with her, getting her progressively more freaked out, enjoying the build up and then letting her get into the house so she'll think she's safe. Angelus likes to play games.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Yes, Angel is very, very scary as a stalker. And you know he knows exactly what he's doing. (Shiver.)

The voiceover gives the episode a bit of an unusual feel

I really like it.

I've always taken that as sarcasm and exasperation on Giles' part.

So does Xander.

how did you know it was him?

I was looking at the transcript so I'd get the quotes right.

Angelus does have a history of killing the family of people he's obsessed with after all - and I find it hard to reconcile Giles taking the 'secrecy is essential' line with that.

My current rationalization is that Giles is following the policy of "don't trouble trouble". They already have one major problem (Angel) and telling Joyce gives them potentially two problems (Joyce and Angel) and they're dealing with first things first - hoping to get rid of Angel before he can reach Joyce. But really, they're almost at his mercy - he's already proved he can get to her.

Jenny's follow up of "I was raised by the people Angel hurt the most" always makes me go "wow, entitlement much?" From what they've said, he didn't do anything worse to them than he did to Drusilla's family.

Yes. The gypsies' were angered, but we're only told that he killed one girl. The implication is that he has hurt many others far worse. But Jenny has been brought up, I suppose, to be appalled by the atrocity of what Angel did to her people.

Jenny's response of "Don't worry, I will." to Buffy telling her to keep feeling bad made me like her more than I have up until now.

I like her more in these episodes because she seems more human, less flip.

Angelus likes to play games.

And does it well.

once again exceeding limits

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

Then Angel goes and terrorizes Jenny.

And why, oh why, is Jenny doing her important translating spell on a school computer? Are we supposed to believe that a computing teacher wouldn't have her own (and more powerful) PC at home? I think Angelus is playing when he says the line about being invited by the motto - the school is a public building, so he shouldn't need an invite at all and Jenny should have known that. Sorry, gripe out of the way - I love this scene and her confrontation with Angelus, it just bugs me that it doesn't really make sense if you think too hard!

A thing I really like about it actually is that Jenny is so panicked she can't open the firedoors and get out that way at the beginning because she can't think clearly enough. And the running down that curved walkway with the camera cutting between them really works. The neck-snapping is also very effective and brutal - I did start to notice a rather large number of neck-snappings in BtVS at one point though I can't remember where they all happened now.

I like:
Willow: Oh, good. Because I just realized, that being a librarian and all, maybe you really didn't know-

and Giles' reaction. Poor man. I like how Willow is so upbeat about cluing him in that he has nothing he can say to Joyce about things. I find it amusing.

Good atmosphere to Giles' discovery of Jenny's body

All of which I always spend whimpering for him and going "Angelus, you bastard" a lot. It's so awful because we viewers know what's coming but Giles is still in happy anticipation mode. The look of realisation when it hits him is horrible.

Something I really like though is that we see Buffy and Willow learning about it from Angelus' POV and don't really hear them. Effective, and also makes it clear that Angelus is just watching to see Buffy in pain.

Xander: I'm sorry, but let's not forget that I hated Angel long before you guys jumped on the bandwagon. So I think I deserve a little something for not saying 'I told you so' long before now.

Interesting diatribe is right. It tends to make me mutter about Xander being a self-righteous prick, but that's probably just me.

I like Spike's line about
his hijinks will only serve to leave us with one incredibly brassed-off Slayer…

Seems he has a much better handle on reality than Angelus, who thinks he has everything under control - right up until Giles starts with the burning. I also like that Spike won't let Dru help Angelus fight Giles off.

Love her lines: "Are you trying to get yourself killed?! You can't leave me. I can't do this alone."

Yes.

And Buffy says, " I can't hold on to the past anymore. Angel has gone. Nothing's ever gonna bring him back."

And the disc with the translated ritual falls off the desk and bounces on the floor... Joss, you tease.

Re: once again exceeding limits

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

why, is Jenny doing her important translating spell on a school computer?

...Because she could? Really, it does seem odd that she uses the computer at school not just for this private project but also for her general exploration of the occult online - all the things that Willow looks at because Jenny was looking at it. This is, at best, unprofessional. At most, indiscreet. And dangerous.

Well, it was a bad mistake, and she died for it.

he neck-snapping is also very effective and brutal

Very convincing. Sometimes in this show they don't even try to convince. Other times they do very well indeed.

I like how Willow is so upbeat about cluing him in that he has nothing he can say to Joyce about things. I find it amusing.

I liked that, too.

It tends to make me mutter about Xander being a self-righteous prick, but that's probably just me.

I would agree with you, but "insensitive jerk" was probably the phrase I was thinking. Because Buffy is hurting and he's gloating as much as Angel is, but with less excuse. He could at least keep his hatred of Angel to himself. Worse that he says these things (re Jenny and Angel) in front of Giles.

I also like that Spike won't let Dru help Angelus fight Giles off.

I liked that too.

Joss, you tease.

He's an Olympic-class teaser.

[star-momma.livejournal.com]

Ahhh, always a great ep.

And Jonathan... I love Jonathan. He grows on you.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

always a great ep.

Oh, yes. Definitely.

I love Jonathan. He grows on you.

Really? ...Okay.

[txvoodoo.livejournal.com]

"Sometimes I wish this show was "Giles the Vampire Slayer". The man has style. "

You know, Joss and ASH have talked for YEARS about doing a show called Ripper. Every once in a while, someone dusts off the idea, but it has yet to come to fruition.
-----
I'm biting my lip on one of the things you said :D

"A tiny place like Sunnydale has a Gypsy occult shop. That's very cool."

Being on/near a hellmouth engenders a lot of this :D

"Angel and Spike are being testy with each other. Drusilla is enjoying it."

And thus it was in their beginning, and thus it will ever be ;)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Joss and ASH have talked for YEARS about doing a show called Ripper.

Yes, please. I'm there. Absolutely. It's my next fandom if they'll do it. Please, please, please.

I'm biting my lip on one of the things you said

Hee. Hope you're enjoying it.

Being on/near a hellmouth engenders a lot of this

Do the retailers get a discount on demonic toys?

thus it was in their beginning, and thus it will ever be ;)

I love that threesome.

[(Anonymous)]

This is opposite of the mindless vampire, without feelings, who is simply driven by hunger for blood.

But "passion" is a mindless, driving hunger for blood....

1. In originally watching these shows, it would be many episodes past this one before I'd recognize Jonathan. He was always just a token schoolboy who came in, had a line, and went away again. Only later did I begin to realize that it was mostly just the same kid.

17. But why would Joyce accept this scary stranger's word that he and Buffy had made love? Sounds like crap-spewing, to me. I was very disappointed in Joyce.

(I don't believe it. I came into the back room to avoid talkers, and more people came in after me -- and are talking! I'm not just being hyper-sensitive; this is fricking rude.)

I agree: Giles is wonderful.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

"passion" is a mindless, driving hunger for blood....

Could be. Could be a passion for anything. "Passion" is one of those words I love: for its intensity, its ambiguities, its depth. Passion is the wellspring of meaning.

why would Joyce accept this scary stranger's word that he and Buffy had made love? Sounds like crap-spewing, to me. I was very disappointed in Joyce.

The truth will out. Buffy had already talked about Angel to Joyce, enough to make her listen. Mothers sometimes fear the worst. But you're right, Joyce hardly comes through as terribly intelligent here, though her rock-bottom stupid moment is still two episodes away.

[ceruleancat.livejournal.com]

Why does Giles tell Buffy she can't tell Joyce that she's the Slayer? Or about Angel? Is this 'Watcher's handbook' stuff or does he not trust Joyce?

Joyce isn't the sort of person who'd happily embrace the occult, believe in it, and accept her daughter's role. Also, that would automatically induce a conflict of responsibility between the Parent/Legal guardian and the Watcher. If Joyce doesn't know, she can't interfere. I don't know that he has this worked out in detail. Seems to me he just thinks it would create more complications than it would resolve.

Giles: "Since Angel lost his soul, he's regained his sense of whimsy."
Seems that pain and torture are Angelus' outlet for creativity. Since Angel refuses to engage that art, he's duller.

Giles: Yes. Well, that's one of the unpleasant side effects of betrayal.
Good line. Poor poor boy.
While I don't like Jenny, he did, to some extent, and the progression of their relationship including its end just increases his tragico-romantic perception. I do love his lashing out after.
And Buffy's reaction ("Are you trying to get yourself killed?!..."), which annoys me as being so self-centered, is the best way to reach Rupert.

Sometimes I wish this show was "Giles the Vampire Slayer".
That would have been a show I'd watch. And I so wish they'd actually do Ripper, although I'm not holding out my breath or anything.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Seems to me he just thinks it would create more complications than it would resolve.

It does seem to be the wise path; and keeping the status quo is probably in Buffy's best interests.

While I don't like Jenny, he did, to some extent, and the progression of their relationship including its end just increases his tragico-romantic perception. I do love his lashing out after.

I like that too. And though I didn't much like their relationship when they were both alive, I like the idea that it's all the more painful for Giles because he knows there was potential love there, which never got a chance to happen.

I so wish they'd actually do Ripper, although I'm not holding out my breath or anything.

Yes. Sigh. I watched the first episode of The Invisibles today and wasn't much impressed with the story.