Writing...

[fajrdrako]

Blogging. Ever since Robin Hobb wrote her piece on how writers should be getting on with the act of writing, not messing around on journaling, I've been struggling with a thread of guilt. Especially since certain people like maaseru have pointed to the article, and said, "It's absolutely right." And I think guiltily: "if I spend x number of minutes writing LJ instead of fic...."

But it isn't a simply syllogism. I can write a ten-minute LJ entry, easily, and do it often. I can't write fic in segments ten minutes. Usually it takes ten minutes to figure out what my scene is and where I'm going with it. Or sometimes I can, but it isn't the same sort of ten minutes. Fiction has its own parameters.

When there was no blogging in my life or anyone else's, I still kept journals. The difference is that no one but me saw them. (Well, except that time my husband started reading my pre-marriage journals to see what I'd said about him, and what a bad idea that was.) I spent daily time in writing letters to friends - I had dozens of pen-pals. I was in apazines. (Many apazines.) It was all the same blogging impulse.

I remind myself of this, when I find myself feeling guilt for writing in LJ and enjoying it. I see no reason to decide that one form of writing is better than another - any more than one kind of reading is better than another, or one kind of movie or TV show over another.

LJ is fun, and it's a stress reliever, and right now it's a much-needed lifeline to the world outside my apartment. Of course I love it.

sartorias's LJ got me thinking about this again. I'm trying to live without guilt about the things I love to do: it makes sense that some find LJ a pleasure in itself, and other people don't.

Comments

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I'm the same as you, I've constatnly kept a diary/journal of one sort or the other, and was constantly writing letters - plus I use it as a life-line too.

If it wasn't for LJ I probably wouldn't be writing at ALL.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Yes. I think of writing as a sort of continuum: and the fluency and simplicity of LiveJournal is helpful rather than hindering. I can see why, to a bystander, it might looks as if I'm writing LJ entries instead of other things - but that isn't the case. And even if it were: is there a reason that should be a problem?

In some ways, LJ is a godsend.

[monsieureden.livejournal.com]

Do you have a link to the Hobb article?

I think you're right; I think there are many forms of writing, not all published, not all popular, but who cares if you enjoy it? You write fan fic, which I will never write, and you write more blog entries than I do. I have spent over a decade thinking about and working on a single novel.

Who's to say what is right or wrong in time spent writing or creating? I enjoy living in the world of my book - I don't know that I want to write about anything else. I don't know that I want to share it. Right now, I simply don't have time for it, as I don't have time for blogging, and I think that's a more fair thing to say than to make an overall judgment on an activity. I hope given a different lot in life in a year, I will have time both to blog and work on the fiction.

Just some thoughts.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Do you have a link to the Hobb article?

Yes, it's here (http://www.robinhobb.com/rant.html).

You write fan fic, which I will never write, and you write more blog entries than I do. I have spent over a decade thinking about and working on a single novel.

And either thing is good. In my opinion.

I think there's a lot to be said for free-form writing such as blogs encourage. It isn't to all tastes, but then, what it?

[mad-jaks.livejournal.com]

I'm absolutely exhausted - it's been a busy day but somewhere in the middle of that post of sartoria's she said this:
"Some ask because they want to get to know you a bit, maybe see if you are like-minded enough to turn into a friend. To those people, one can reveal oneself. But there are others who take that pecking order thing everywhere--to parties, on dates, to work, out shopping."

And I should probably hesitate to say this as I have no clue about who Robin Hobb is (and actually don't care to either to be honest) but it strikes me (the ordinary blogger and fanficwriter in ljland) that Robin would fall into the second category - the ones who take the pecking order thing everywhere...

And that LJland - in general if not in whole - is full of the first sort of people - the one's who want to know if you're like-minded enough to turn into a friend.

If you're a writer you write - you write in lj; on MySpace; in a good old fashioned page a day diary .You write in ringbinders on bus journeys; in jotting pads that you keep by the bed in the middle of the night when you can't sleep - hell if the inspiration takes you you write on envelopes with stubs of pencil crayon.

Blogging doesn't make you any less of a writer though somone saying it *might* (I emphasise the word might) make them less of a person...

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

there are others who take that pecking order thing everywhere--to parties, on dates, to work, out shopping.

Interesting point. Yes, definitely a different view of ... how one assesses life, and people.

Sometime people have to develop a strong regimen to be what they want to be - perhaps Robin Hobb feels it necessary to cut such things as blogs out of her life if and when she wants to write fiction. And therefore feels other writers must do the same.

Or perhaps she is very competitive. Or perhaps she sees someone she thinks should be producing more original fiction for publication, who isn't doing so. A judgement call - not one I think we should make about others, or at least, usually not.

If you're a writer you write -

Oh so true!

hell if the inspiration takes you you write on envelopes with stubs of pencil crayon.

Yes - been there and done that.

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

Ever since Robin Hobb wrote her piece

Pfft. Read her piece on fanfic sometime and the urge to take anything she says seriously ever again will just vanish.

(I like her books - well, mostly - but man. Rant-o-rama.)

Not having guilt over doing things you like sounds pretty sensible to me.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Read her piece on fanfic sometime and the urge to take anything she says seriously ever again will just vanish.

Haven't seen that one - I'll keep it in mind.

I like her books - well, mostly - but man. Rant-o-rama.

Hee. I liked the one I read that she wrote as Meghan Lindholm - I think it was called The Reindeer People. Didn't like the next one I tried - can't recall the title - the first fantasy novel of her trilogy of trilogies. I had a long list of complaints about it, most of which can be summed up with the notion that her characters didn't seem psychologically real to me.

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

Is time spent practicing writing wasted?

Is time spent searching for the right word, the right phrase, the right sentence wasted?

If I spend all afternoon trying to find the right way to word a sentence in a porno fanfic that isn't going to earn me a dime, as happened on quite a few afternoons while I was writing the second part of Hostage Situation,http://crabby-lioness.livejournal.com/30202.html is that a waste of time or is it what I need to become more comfortable and more confident as a writer?

It's said that a writer must write a thousand pages before they get good at their craft, just as an artist must draw a thousand pictures. Why should I be chastised for using LJ for my sketchbook?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Is time spent practicing writing wasted?

Not in my opinion!

LJ makes a great sketchbook; I think it's the perfect practice-ground.

And thanks for the link!

[dichroic.livejournal.com]

My problem is then I end up feeling guilty for not blogging enough. This is largely a matter of having too many of them. There's the main blog (http://riseagain.net/wp). There's the LJ, which I use for memes, my rare writing stuff, anything I really want a response on because of the LJ community factor, and the rare things I want to friendslock. There's the travel/expat blog which my husband and I started when we moved abroad, to tell friends and family about it (I didn't want to give the main blog's address to all my family and certainly not to coworkers; though it's not particularly off-color or incendiary, it's *mine*). It's supposed to be for both of us, but I do most of the writing. And there's the spoonriverrail writing project. It's those last two I feel bad about not updating more often.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Too bad we can't spread time out more - eke more than 24 hours out of a day. Or write faster. I am, or used to be, a quick and fluid writer. Sometimes the fluidity fails me.

And yes, blogging is one way to clear out the webcobby brain and get the words going when they're slow to come.

It's been wonderful over the past week: giving me a focus besides staring at the ceiling.

[spherissa.livejournal.com]

mm, I've been away form lj for a bit so my views on lj are a bit off center right now but in a way it's like saying you cannot write letters and socialise for tat eats away from your writing time. To me it's not about saying EVIL EVIL LJ but rather moderate the time yu spend in each writing medium.

Although it is awfully easy for time to weirdly fold in on itself when online....

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

True. Being online does seem to suck up the minutes sometimes.

I am a firm believer that - though there are times when one is writing a great deal, and it's necessary to keep going because the words are coming - it is usually good and healthy to keep one's input busy as well as one's output. Read, talk, interact - writing may be a solitary activity but make it too solitary and the brain becomes stale: doesn't have as much to process.

Well. It's a theory, anyway.

[nina-ds.livejournal.com]

Everything I do, even things that aren't strictly "writing" are about writing. I have just gone through the biggest block of my entire life - and it wasn't my professional work that got me going again, it was fanfic. Just interacting with fandom helped spur me on, and now the fanfic is building my "writing muscles" and I'm feeling the yen to do some of the work-type stuff again.

In other words? I find the idea that only certain types of writing "counts" kind of...offensive. As some of my closest friends/colleagues say when the dreaded block hits, "writing is writing."

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

it wasn't my professional work that got me going again, it was fanfic.

Yes. I find fanfic enormously valuable.

I find the idea that only certain types of writing "counts" kind of...offensive.

It's an unwarranted judgement call - that some writing is more valid than other, as if some subjects are more worthy than others, and so on.

Instead, we write what we write.

[maaseru.livejournal.com]

Must be all those good drugs that have muddled my argument in your mind. I object to the dribbling away of your creative talent - understanding, of course, that it is totally up to you what you do with it. Except that you do want to write in long form, or you say you do, and never get enough time to do it.

My observation is that many good writers have taken to writing hundreds of drabbles, LJ articles, arguments, interesting observations, friendship fic, etc., etc., and wonder why on earth they no longer have time for the serious, longer pieces they used to be able to produce.

I love many things to do with the net, and LJ - but how I miss those long stories. And I am not alone.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Except that you do want to write in long form, or you say you do, and never get enough time to do it.

Mmm. Perhaps. I used to want that. I don't seem to have the mental energy to do that these days; another reason to worry about diet, allergies, exercise, whatever it is that has robbed me of the focus I used to have that made it possible to write long things. Any help you can offer in this would be happily accepted!

The problem is not so much time as energy and capacity. The argument I am making is that by writing drabbles, short pieces, and commentary on LJ (or in any other venue) I am still writing, still keeping the faculty of using words flowing. It isn't a choice between 'writing short pieces' and 'writing long pieces', it's a choice between writing what I can or not writing at all.

I miss the long stories, too. I miss writing them. But I don't believe LJ is the reason I can't, or haven't been, writing other things.

I'd like to find a solution to this, but I don't think the solution is cutting back on LJ writing. I think it lies in improving my health and ability to focus, if that can be done.

[msp-hacker.livejournal.com]

The only way I can see her point is if you dedicate a certain period of time to writing on a specific project, and instead blog during that time.

I don't think that's what Hobb is talking about, so I don't agree with her.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I agree with you: she's talking about interests and attention spans, and overstating a case. I think that in overstating, she weakens her case - makes it an either/or thing when it never should be.

All writers have trouble finding a balance between writing and the other aspects of life.

There are those who advise writers to write something every day, regardless of what it is. Other writers advise to write only what is a serious project. Two different approaches to writing, and I expect one style works better for some people while others are the opposite way round.

[omnivorously.livejournal.com]

I'd ask you to direct me to Robin Hobb's piece, but it would probably just piss me off. It *sounds* like it's full of the capitalist production ethic (a person's worth is in what they produce, and the value of what is produced is standardized, and ... ok, I'll theorize about this later).

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

It *sounds* like it's full of the capitalist production ethic (a person's worth is in what they produce, and the value of what is produced is standardized, and ... ok, I'll theorize about this later)

Hmm. That might be it. Just to give you the option of looking at it if you want to (but don't take this is any notion that you should do so!), the original essay is here (http://www.robinhobb.com/rant.html).

"Value" is an interestingly judgement-linked word.

[auriaephiala.livejournal.com]

Seems to me that LJs and other blogs are good for
* commenting on events in daily life that you wouldn't necessarily write long thought pieces on
* ditto on books, plays, TV shows, films
* keeping in touch with friends
* doing initial drafts of commentary or fiction (in small bits) that you need feedback on. For example, trying out a bit of an argument and seeing how others react to it.

OTOH, if you spend too much time reading and responding to others' blogs or worrying about notating in your life on your blog, you can use up writing time for larger projects -- just as you can waste that time on TV or books or friends or whatever.

What I think I need to do is to set out chunks of time for specific projects and not letting other things like email or LJ or family bother me during those times so I accomplish stuff. And also to be well enough rested and not distracted so as to be able to work well.

Obviously YMMV.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I would agree with all of that. Scheduling time for important projects is important; and then deciding how to use other bits of time is important too. I suppose the point is not to confuse the one thing with the other, and if there is a goal to be reached, be sure that it has priority.

It's a while since I've felt I had much of a goal.

[mmegaera.livejournal.com]

Journals are vital. I've kept them, off and on, almost all my life.

Well, except that time my husband started reading my pre-marriage journals to see what I'd said about him, and what a bad idea that was.

I had one of those, too. He took the Very Large Box with all my pre-him journals (and my high school yearbooks, and my prom pictures, and a number of other irreplaceable things) and put it in the dumpster while I was at work one day. It was gone by the time I got home.

I left him not long after that...

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Journals are vital. I've kept them, off and on, almost all my life.

I go in spells. I've never been very consistent about it - I find that the feedback-exchange nature of LJ makes it easier for me to keep my enthusiasm up. And whenever I have been troubled, or had decisions to make, I've found that keeping a journal is very helpful.

He took the Very Large Box with all my pre-him journals ... and put it in the dumpster while I was at work one day.

How awful! My husband threw out my journals, too - but of course the harm had been done, really, before that. He'd read them and couldn't forget what he'd read. I don't think the marriage had much hope in the long run anyway, but I do think of that as a turning point.

I left him not long after that...

Good move!

[txvoodoo.livejournal.com]

Why can't you do both? I know SO MANY writers who do both. Their purpose isn't the same, after all!

LJ isn't just about writing - it's about community, and feedback, and reaching out, and connecting with the world.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Why can't you do both? I know SO MANY writers who do both. Their purpose isn't the same, after all!

Yes, exactly. The thing is - as they say - when you're a writer, you write. It may be a bit of a busman's holiday, but it's a natural way to express ourselves.

LJ isn't just about writing - it's about community, and feedback, and reaching out, and connecting with the world.

Sharing interests and talking to interesting people about them. Yes - I lvoe it for that.

[chatona.livejournal.com]

I've never heard of this rant by this Robin Hobb of whom I have never heard either, but from the sound of it, I don't want to, either.

... I can be a writer and still write my blog and I can do both and yeah, blogging takes up some of my time, but, hell. It takes up time I wouldn't spend writing, anyway, because my attention span for writing is somewhere between whut? and oooh, shiney! and I'm constantly doing something or other, anyway. If I sit down to really write, I don't blog in that time, but when I'm not really concentrating on the writing, blogging is only on of a thousand things that'll distract me. I mean. Look, new e-mail! Must check up on it. That's not blogging and it still distracts me.

So I. I don't really see the point. I write when I want to write and when I feel like writing. If I were a professional writer, I'd write professionally and with more discipline and then I'd blog in my free time, because I'd still need time off writing, too. Even though I'd love my job.

'm sorry. I'm kinda tired. I think I'll go train some so that there'll be some contest between you and me for that gold medal? :)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Agree with your every word here. And what a great icon that is!

Happy sleeping - !

[fl-zed.livejournal.com]

http://ririanproject.com/2006/09/22/10-reasons-to-keep-a-journal/

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the link. That's a good one. I like the quote:

But instead of thinking of a journal as a diary - a book in which you merely relate the day’s events - think of it as a container for self reflection, self-expression and self exploration. Retelling the day’s events is less relevant than the act of expressing your thoughts.

Or, of course, expressing my thoughts about the day's events.

better organizational skills? Okay, I wait expectantly for that part to kick in!

[maisedoat.livejournal.com]

but LJ isn't a journal. A journal is written once or at most twice a day, LJ is a conversation. If each comment is 10mins worth, how many chunks of 10mins have you wasted today on this one conversation alone, not counting the number of times you've checked back to see if someone else has chimed in and no one has.

I honestly don't think creativity is limitless, unless one is Dickens, each one of us has, I believe a finite amount of writing in us a day. Maybe that would stretch to a journal, a couple of letters and some concentrated writing for a "proper" story, ie not one of these bloody drabbles, memes (what the hell is a meme outside the history of ideas?) challenges or fics-as-presents. But I don't think it will run to a day long conversation with multiple people, email a load of silly unstories *and* proper work on a decent story of decent length (whatever that might be for the story in question).

I've not read anything by Hobb but I reckon he/she is dead on the money with this one. My livejournal was more or less abandoned within a couple of days when I realised that, if I was going to do it properly, it would suck time out of my life. I know too many good writers who have more or less disappeared into blogging.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

but LJ isn't a journal. A journal is written once or at most twice a day, LJ is a conversation.

Well, LJ can be a journal: one could do it with no conversation at all. (I know some people who do.) Me, I like the conversational parts.

I honestly don't think creativity is limitless

No. I wish it was!

My livejournal was more or less abandoned within a couple of days when I realised that, if I was going to do it properly, it would suck time out of my life.

I found that my LJ just displaced other things - like letter-writing on paper. And some of my email lists. This sort of ongoing conversation is something I do anyway - adapting it to the technology available to me.

The writing - fiction writing, I mean - is perhaps more tied to other issues. But I can, say, write an LJ message at lunchtime or coffee-break time at work, when it would be (usually) impossible to difficult to write fiction. So the circumstances remain different.

Which is not to say you're wrong, of course, but to say that not everyone's experience or capabilities are the same. And yes, there is truth in what Hobb says in that LJ gives me yet another procrastination technique if that is what I'm looking for. But by no means the only one.

[walkingowl.livejournal.com]

I see no reason to decide that one form of writing is better than another

Um... yeah. Doesn't that go without saying?

I find the words "blog" and "blogging" to be completely unpalatable and jarring. (Maybe write this off at least in part to my lovely semi-synaesthesia.) At the same time, this activity is in my mind so like that of the old-time essayists that I don't see what anyone is making a fuss about! Just my opinion.

The place is closing, it's 2 AM... onward to home and the happy cats. Rest well and continue to heal!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Yes, I think 'blogging' has acquired a pejorative nuance that doesn't match the quality of the activity.

Which is okay; those of us who believe it has value will redeem it!