Torchwood: the things I fear and dread...

[fajrdrako]

The Fannish 5:

What five things are you afraid will happen in [Torchwood] canon?

1. I am afraid that Jack will 'settle down' to a conventional, monogamous relationship. No, no, and please no!



2. I am afraid that Rhys will die.



3. I am afraid that there will be no more references to the Doctor in Torchwood. I love it so much when he is mentioned, as in "Kiss, Kiss, Bang, Bang" or "Reset".



4. I am afraid there will be poor writing. I don't trust this show.



5. I am afraid Tosh and Owen will somehow get together. Under current circumstances, the possiblity of that seems less, but it still looms large in their scenes whenever they are together. I am afraid that the Tosh-Owen non-relationship/connection will remain a significant part of their storyline, and I've hated it every time it has been mentioned or implied, even obliquely, in series 2. Because, as I have said before, Tosh is at her worst when she is with Owen, and vice versa, and the writers continue to put them together at every opportunity.

Comments

[wijsgeer.livejournal.com]

re 5) I wish Tosh would find a nice lover. An other alien perhaps? Perhaps conflict between her and the rest of Torchwood over it? Perhaps not the one you would expect her in supporting this (that would be Gwen) but Owen as a friend? I see a potential for friendship between Tosh and Owen. Precisely because of the awkwardness and Tosh infatuation. If Tosh had someone else to love (and love her) Owen could show the sympathy he feels for her better. (I assume he feels sympathy for her but his natural way of showing is snarky plus he would not want to give the wrong idea, if only to spare himself the hassle). Tosh would love a curious exploration of the differenceness of an alien lover.

I don't want Tosh and Owen as a couple, if only because it is so much tidying up the ends and I hate that. (Ok, it is permissible in a story that starts out as a romance, but this isn't)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Yes - I too would like to see Tosh fall in love with someone suitable and acceptible, preferably a woman - an alien who is not homicidal would be nice.

And if that happened, I'd be much more tolerant of the friendship between Tosh and Owen. As it is, I think it makes her look immature, and it makes him look like a jerk.

[wijsgeer.livejournal.com]

I am, I think, a bit more tolerant of Tosh/Owen interaction. You can call her behaviour immature, in Dutch I would call it tenenkrommend literally toecurling, something that makes you feel almost ashamed to watch. But I can understand her so well. I have no problem picturing a background for her where she had little experience with dating, being more focused on study and work. Being easy (not as easy to get in to bed but smooth and experienced) going with the dating and flirting business does for most people not come without a learning process. Last episode told us that Tosh is an excellent repeller, her treatment of Banana Boat, who was a bit obnoxious but who could have been told "no thanks" with more flair and a smile. (BTW I think Tosh could have done that easily if it was a work thing, if Jack had told her to charm the man for some reason Tosh could no doubt have done it, but doing it privately is a different matter). (I am a good repeller too, so I do recognize it). Anyway, Owen is there. He is very much there. I can't help but think that is the main thing. Because the two episodes her romantic interest was clearly elsewhere (Mary, Tommy) she had no doubt who she preferred and that wasn't Owen.
Rambling a bit, but hope I made sense...

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I am, I think, a bit more tolerant of Tosh/Owen interaction.

Most people are - it would be difficult to be less tolerant of it than I am.

I can understand her so well.

This doesn't make me like it any more. It would be bad enough if I liked or respected Owen, but I don't. So it's a double-dose: her need, coupled with the lack of sympathy I feel for him.

her treatment of Banana Boat, who was a bit obnoxious but who could have been told "no thanks" with more flair and a smile.

I wondered if she was taking out some of he Owen frustration on Banana Boat, but that's probably overthinking it. it shows how Tosh has a sort of all-or-nothing attitude to people.

[abrakadabrah.livejournal.com]

After all, she deserves a boyfriend who isn't dead. Talk about settling for less.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Well, yes.

Not just dead, but grumpy about it.

[scarlettgirl.livejournal.com]

Yes. Particularly to Nos. 2 and 5, but yes to all.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

So - we cross our fingers and hope none of these things come to pass!

I'm enjoying the show as it is. But I do worry.

[gypsylady.livejournal.com]

They haven't let Owen pine for Diane yet this season. I think he does well pining for Diane. And I like the idea of a good alien being there for Tosh. Male, female, I don't care so long as it's someone who won't die at the end of the episode. She's got to be having self-esteem issues at this point.

Jack needs to start either treating Ianto better or let Ianto go find his own way. When the relationship between them started up this season I was all for it, but it's turning uncomfortable and a little unpleasant.

I was reading somewhere that Rhys was supposed to die at the end of S01 but he'd proven to be such a great character that they decided to let him stay. Now I'm worried he'll hear some little old lady say, "Bloody Torchwood," and respond with "Oi, that's my WIFE you're cursin' out!" But he's really proven to be a smart, strong, loyal man and probably he'd just laugh...

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

They haven't let Owen pine for Diane yet this season.

I'm not sure I care whether he pines exactly, but it would be nice to see a memory or reference. Especially if he's doing a "I'll talk to you but don't expect me to love you ever" thing with Tosh. I'd be happy if he said to her, in honesty, "I haven't got over Diane, and I don't love you. Let's be friends."

As for Tosh - she must be downright paranoid at this point!

I don't see the discomfort in the Jack/Ianto relationship, but I have different conclusions from one episode to the next as to how to interpret it.

he's really proven to be a smart, strong, loyal man and probably he'd just laugh...

He's pretty cool. My fears for his death is the old comic book thing - where there are almost no permanent marriages. The superhero's civilian spouse always dies - always. I can't even think of an exception. Even when one superhero marries another superhero, one of them will probably eventually die. So... it doesn't look good for Rhys.

But I can hope.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

The whole "Tosh finds a partner and they die" thing is getting dull for me, it's stupid that only Gwen has a "steady" thing. There are plenty of secret jobs where people manage home lives.

I've seen rumours that Jack's leaving, I don't want that, either!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I've seen rumours that Jack's leaving, I don't want that, either!

Perish the thought. Jack is the best thing about the show. The only thing that would make Jack's departure palatable would be his continued inclusion in Doctor Who. (I don't expect I'd watch Torchwood without him.)

he whole "Tosh finds a partner and they die" thing is getting dull for me

Yes. Tosh has had short shrift when it comes to storylines. Enough with the dead lovers and the crush on Owen - I want to see something really good happen to her!

[star-momma.livejournal.com]

I second your fears about the writing. It's been so darn GOOD this season, but last season had such rough spots... and I now live in terror that all the good will be stripped away again.

I don't expect I'd watch Torchwood without him.

I wouldn't. What would be the point? I like Gwen, I like Tosh, I admit that I've fallen in love with Ianto, Owen has become moderately tolerable... but there's no but Jack that KEEPS me there.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

It's been so darn GOOD this season, but last season had such rough spots... and I now live in terror that all the good will be stripped away again.

Yes. It really has been good this year, but I haven't the confidence to depend on it. (Especially when I though the writing on "The Walking Dead" and "A Day in the Death" was somewhat subpar.)

I like Gwen, I like Tosh, I admit that I've fallen in love with Ianto, Owen has become moderately tolerable... but there's no but Jack that KEEPS me there.

Yes, exactly! He is the one with the interesting personality and story. And though I do love Ianto, I keep being frustrated that there's not much *there* - not much story. Two life-references: his father the tailor (wonderful detail!) and Lisa. That's it.

[star-momma.livejournal.com]

And though I do love Ianto, I keep being frustrated that there's not much *there* - not much story.

Precisely. I keep hoping for depth, background... and then all the stories keep going to either Gwen or Owen. That's beginning to frustrate me. Tosh gets to screw someone every now and then.

And that's another thing- Jack hasn't had a damned sex scene the entire run of the series. What IS that?! I hear rumors of a scene with him and Ianto later in the season and hope they're true. To make even a sexual, fun relationship with them continue to be interesting, it would be nice if we ever saw their relationship. Rhys gets more danged character development.

Rant over. lol

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I keep hoping for depth, background... and then all the stories keep going to either Gwen or Owen.

Yes - except for the flashback info to the Battle of Canary Wharf, everything about Ianto is in the present. He doesn't even have a flat - not that we've seen. He's the only one who isn't an expert in his field, but he seems to have expertise in many fields. (Well, not so much with guns, he's better with tasers. He needs more gunroom time with Jack, and might we watch that, please?)

I thought I got to know Ianto better in a thirty-second conversation with Martha than I had in the whole show before or since. That doesn't seem right.

Tosh gets to screw someone every now and then.

Yes - usually in an unhappy way. I'd like to redeem Mary and Adam, both of whom I thought were hot. Too bad they were nasty malicious aliens. And Tommy... the tailormade tear-jerker.

Jack hasn't had a damned sex scene the entire run of the series

I noticed.

To make even a sexual, fun relationship with them continue to be interesting, it would be nice if we ever saw their relationship.

Yes. There has been precious little (aince "They Keep Killing Suzie") to indicate that Jack and Ianto are more than colleagues. Ianto holding Jack's coat when Jack was dead, and the kiss in "End of Days". (The hug doesn't count, because Jack hugged the others, too.) The "Jack makes jokes about office kink and invites Ianto on a date" scene. The kiss in "To The Last Man". The dance in "Something Borrowed". Anything else? Their banter has been terrific, but not intimate in any way. Even when they embrace, there's something missing... In "Captain Jack Harkness" Jack and Jack had such a passionate connection (even though they only had a few hours together, and never alone) - why don't we see something more meaningful between them?

Rhys gets more danged character development.

I adore Rhys. And we know far, far more about him than we do about Ianto - we've seen just about every corner of his flat (including his bedroom and what kind of sheets he has), his job, his friends (we can even name Dav and Banana Boat), his leisure (television, bowling), and we've seen him naked on several occasions - how come we never see Jack and Ianto naked?

Much of what we know about Rhys involves his shared life with Gwen, but shoudln't we, by that criterion, see much more of Jack's shared life with Ianto? Or do he and Ianto not have any shared life except the most occasional and superficial sex?

Darned if I know! I want more. I want more... oomph in Jack's love life. Sparks. Feelings. I think the best moment between them was in "Adam" with the kiss on the forehead - a moment neither of them now remember, but it at least characterized their relationship a little: Ianto loves Jack for bringing meaning back into his life.

Another point: Jack doesn't flirt nearly enough.

[star-momma.livejournal.com]

Or do he and Ianto not have any shared life except the most occasional and superficial sex?

Which, from some of their interaction (the sweet kiss in "Adam," for example), doesn't seem to be the case. But, hell, even if it is the cheapest, sleaziest of sexual encounters... well, then, I'd really like to watch. So there.

And, yes, Jack hasn't been flirting much this season - even with Ianto. What happened to Jack's quips? His fun? Where's the guy we fell in love with in "The Empty Child"? We don't see him often anymore.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

from some of their interaction (the sweet kiss in "Adam," for example), doesn't seem to be the case

Absolutely not. There are all sorts of things that indicate something much deeper for both of them - hints and clues and moments. So why show us so little of it?

hell, even if it is the cheapest, sleaziest of sexual encounters... well, then, I'd really like to watch.

Um.

Well.

YES.

Jack hasn't been flirting much this season - even with Ianto

Especially not with Ianto, I'd say. I'd thought he and Ianto were discreetly keeping their affair hidden from the others, but apparently not. So why? Jack was flirty with Martha, he was so happy to see her. And with Ruth. And even (in that nice snarky, edged way) with the "Reset" doctor. And then - ! He gets all grouchy and cold in "A Day in the Death". Did he have a fight with Ianto we don't know about? A rude message from the Doctor saying "no, you can't borrow the TARDIS"? What changed? Or is the characterization and writing just... erratic?

Where's the guy we fell in love with in "The Empty Child"?

Hiding in Steven Moffat's pocket, I think.

[star-momma.livejournal.com]

Hiding in Steven Moffat's pocket, I think.

Well, I don't think any of us would mind having Jack in our pockets, but he needs to SHARE.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

he needs to SHARE.

I wish!

[boji.livejournal.com]

I echo ALL your fears only my no:1 fear is your no: 4. So:

1: I am afraid there will be poor writing. I don't trust this show.
2: I am afraid that Jack will 'settle down' to a conventional, monogamous relationship. No, no, and please no!
3: I am afraid Jack's backstory is barely sketched out on a cocktail napkin, and a ripped one at that. I'm afraid there is no arc and a scant understanding of his history both past and future.
4: I'm afraid Tosh and Owen will be paired up, but more afraid that Owen will cease to be.
5: I'll regret Rhys dying, but am not afraid per say.
6: I'm afraid that John Hart won't make it out of the season finale giving us hope for a return next season.
7: I'm afraid we won't get to see next season!

2 of yours and 5 fannish ones of my own. I could go on though...

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I am afraid Jack's backstory is barely sketched out on a cocktail napkin, and a ripped one at that. I'm afraid there is no arc and a scant understanding of his history both past and future.

Interesting point; it would explain why we only get bits and pieces that don't connect or add up. Presumably the story of Grey has been throught through?

Pulling the "Face of Boe" line out of the dark side of the Rift sounds like evidence for the ad hoc nature of Jack's life. There's something random about the puzzle, with connections - but the connections don't always fit. There's the dedicated soldier, and there's the jocular con man, and it's something difficult to see how the contrasting sides join up.

I'm afraid Tosh and Owen will be paired up, but more afraid that Owen will cease to be.

I would happily do without Owen, especially if he died heroically. More heroically than just stopping a bullet for someone, even someone as great as Martha.

'm afraid that John Hart won't make it out of the season finale giving us hope for a return next season.

Now, that one doesn't frighten me in the least. I have every confidence that he will return, and survive. I don't know why I'm so confident of this one, but I am. Something about him seems ... indestructible.

I'm afraid we won't get to see next season!is a scary thought!

I could go on though...

That sounds intriguing. What else are you thinking of? One or two more...?

[ofparsnip.livejournal.com]

I agree with all five completely.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

So maybe if we all keep our fingers crossed none of them will happen.

Maybe.