Torchwood: More thoughts on "Reset" and other themes...

[fajrdrako]

Yesterday I had friends over to watch Torchwood - we watched all of series 2 except "Kiss, Kiss, Bang, Bang", which everyone had already seen.

It was interesting, seeing them all in a row. It clarified a few thoughts for me.

1. When we first watched "Reset" last week, after it ended, auriaephiala said to me something like, "Are you sorry you wanted Owen out of the show now?" At the time, I don't think I answered her, because I had to think about it.
   
   My conclusion: No, I'm not sorry. I don't believe he is dead; I wish he were; I'd be very, very happy if Owen were to die like this, heroically, and then be out of the show. The only part of the show I am not currently enchanted with is the part that revolves around him.
   
   In some ways I can like the kinder, gentler Owen of series 2 better than Owen the snarky brat of series 1. But I greatly preferred the Owen of series 1, who had a strong story arc, a lot of entertainment value, and was leaving Tosh alone. (Or she was leaving him alone. Same difference.) I liked Owen best when he was having sex with Gwen. In series 2, I like him best when he is interacting with Martha, but that's because she makes everybody look good when she's with them.
   
   So: I am braced for disappointment when he comes back from the dead in the next episode, or possibly the one after that. And I am convinced that he will.



2. I noticed more than before that there are frequent hints that Jack is psychic in ways the others aren't. His sensitivity to "a disturbance in the psychic field" in "To the Last Man" is a good example. Then there's the scene in Adam in which - with everyone on the team hypnotically primed, and himself emotionally attuned, Jack seems to be able to hear their thoughts.
   
   This makes perfect sense, since the TARDIS was the vehicle (or the source) for his altered body energy, and the TARDIS has strong psychic energies.



3. I said it before but it warrants saying again: Martha is utterly wonderful.



4. Though I quite loved "Adam" on first viewing, I loved it even more on second viewing. A fascinating episode. I have some mixed feelings about the flashbacks to Jack's childhood - loved the planet, but the kid playing Jack was not Jacklike enough. The problem was less in his looks than his manner. Jack as a boy would have been - must have been - a lively, rambunctious, mischievous handful - not the serious boy we see here. On the other hand, we are not seeing the actual child-Jack, we are seeing his barefly-recovered memories of himself. But that's just an excuse: it would have been a stronger, better story if young Jack had been a lively rapscallion suddenly sobered by tragic events. Did they think that would have changed the mood of the episode too much?



5. I liked the 'howls' of the enemy. Was it the sound of their ships, or their own nature?



6. Ianto's wordplay, his sense of humour, his love of Jack, and his expressive eyebrows make me enjoy and love him more all the time. That being said, the Jack/Ianto pairing still doesn't have the oomph I would like to see. Perhaps if we saw more of it? More kissing? More dabbling? More mushy moments?
   
   So far, I think the best moment of the Jack/Ianto romance is in Adam, when Ianto says he found meaning in life again through Jack, and Jack kisses his forehead.



7. I'd love to play more with the Jack/Tosh pairing, and to see more of it. I would love, absolutely love, to see Jack kiss Tosh. Why are loads of people not writing Jack?Tosh fic? Or are they doing so and I just haven't seen it?
   
   I also adore the emotional moment in "Adam":

   TOSHIKO: Knowing there has to be more to life than this. Knowing I'm special. Waiting for someone to see it.
   JACK: I saw it.

   
   

Comments

[fandom-me.livejournal.com]

I'm just passing by but I wanted to stop and cheer for a moment re: Jack being psychic/more psychic/whatever. I am firmly convinced that he is. This is just absolutely canon for me, and until it becomes real canon it's personal canon, but I can not believe he's not. It also makes sense of a *lot* of moments and things scattered throughout both series, though admittedly more so in S2.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I agree with all of that: I think it's almost canon, but still largely unarticulated - presented in subtle scenes and small doses. And it explains things that don't have other good explanations.

Besides - I like it a lot!

[prairiedaun.livejournal.com]

I love the idea of Jack and Tosh. I loved that in Captain Jack Harkness we were able to see them interact so much outside of the rest of the team, how he doesn't blow off her fears about what will happen toher if they get stuck there, how she's one of the only people that he has/will probably ever tell about how he took his name. There are lots of other little things I like about them, but yeah. *waves the Jack/Tosh flag*

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I'm so glad to hear you say all of that! They seem to understand each other very well... With a sort of mutual appreciation. And yes, they were great together in "Captain Jack Harkness" - she understood what he was going through with his feelings for other Jack. And I absolutely loved the way, at the end, she toasted him, and said he would have been proud. She didn't just understand that Jack loved him, she understood how and why.

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

the look on Tosh's face then, and also in the dance hall at the table (before *the* dance) she understood quite a lot about what the real!Jack meant to TW!Jack, and a person, an ideal, etc

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

This makes me think that Tosh is more insightful and understanding of people than you might think at first - her cleverness isn't just about maths and sciences.

She is shy, and slightly misanthronpic, and I think her problem consists of being too vulnerable - of trusting too easily, and she has had many experiences of being hurt - by Owen's indifference, by Mary's malice, by Tommy's death.

I'd like to see better for her.

(Jack, for instance.)

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

it would be nice if the powers that be let us see that side a little more often, rather than playing up her needy/easy-to-be-hurt side

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

I'd love to play more with the Jack/Tosh pairing, and to see more of it. I would love, absolutely love, to see Jack kiss Tosh.

Me too, me too! I think Jack/Tosh rocks, but you're right, there isn't much out there.

But I do have two bookmarked:

In the Mood (http://fandomfrom3.livejournal.com/24945.html) by chicafrom3, an alternate end to CJH

There are Millions of Suns Left (http://basingstoke.livejournal.com/331360.html) by basingstoke, set post S1 and it's got great Tosh, and a threesome with Jack at the end

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I have read "In the Mood", and have it, in fact, in my folder of "stories I want to keep to read again". But I missed the Basingstoke story - can't think how, because I love her writing. Thank you!

And now I'm afraid to read it at the moment because I'm working on a Jack/Tosh/Ianto story and don't want to be influenced. Bother.

[gypsylady.livejournal.com]

First time through, I thought I hated "Adam" overall. It seemed contrived. But after a second watch I started to warm to it and by the third (I stopped there. I'm not obsessed or anything...) I felt I understood the characters from the start so much better.

I never liked Owen except as a "part-time shag" for Gwen. But in this one, when we get to see the "might have been" I came to appreciate prat!Owen much more. I think Adam couldn't alter personalities, but he could alter memory to cause hidden or discarded personality traits to come to the forefront. And geeky!Owen has always been there and I think Owen is aware of Tosh-as-a-woman, but she's so intellectual and so techie he never thought of her as a potential romantic partner and thus was unable to see her tentative flirtations.

My only real problem with "Adam" is that we already know Gwen is resistant to retcon, and I didn't see Rhys getting a little pill (maybe it happened in between scenes when Jack snuck out or something) so there is great potential for this to all fall apart again. However, this being an ongoing TV series, I don't think that'll happen because it would totally hose up the flow.

At lunch yesterday we all agreed that Martha was the Best Companion Ever. Okay, not ever. (My heart belongs to Sarah Jane.) But we all love Martha. A lot. (And since I was the only one there who is up-to-date on Torchwood, I got to make the happy announcement that Jack asked Ianto out on a real date and that got applause. One guy even stood up to applaud. Some dim sum places are used to weirdness like that and no one even looked over at us.)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I never liked Owen except as a "part-time shag" for Gwen.

Yes - that's been his best use yet!

Yes, I see what you mean about Owen... that was what Owen might have been, had he not been what he is. Same basic personality, but expressed in a different way - without the shields of his defenses, and all his insecurities showing instead of carefully hidden.

I think Owen is aware of Tosh-as-a-woman, but she's so intellectual and so techie he never thought of her as a potential romantic partner and thus was unable to see her tentative flirtations.

I always thought he was aware of her as a woman but just not interested - esepcially since in the past he avoided relationships and just wanted casual sex. Diane seems to have changed all that. Which is probably good for Owen's sake, but I don't like seeing him with Tosh.

Gwen is resistant to retcon, and I didn't see Rhys getting a little pill (maybe it happened in between scenes when Jack snuck out or something) so there is great potential for this to all fall apart again.

Cetainly there are lots of ways that could happen, but Adam is not Retcon and the difference in the process may make all the difference.

I wouldn't mind seeing Adam again, though.

At lunch yesterday we all agreed that Martha was the Best Companion Ever. Okay, not ever. (My heart belongs to Sarah Jane.)

Waaah! Don't ask me to choose between Martha and Sarah Jane! I adore them both!

(But if I really, really, really have to choose, I'd choose Martha.)

One guy even stood up to applaud. Some dim sum places are used to weirdness like that and no one even looked over at us.

I love it!

When we watched yesterday, I'd been very careful not to reveal any spoilers. When Ianto and Jack kissed in "To the Last Man", one of my friends said, with satisfaction, "I could see that coming!" These were not my slash-fan friends, and I am so happy they like the Jack/Ianto relationship so much.

[devohoneybee.livejournal.com]

re: psychic or telepathic -- there is the moment in the ep where Tosh has the pendant that allows her to hear others' thoughts, where Jack seems to know she is trying to hear his.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

there is the moment in the ep where Tosh has the pendant that allows her to hear others' thoughts, where Jack seems to know she is trying to hear his

Yes - with the even more perplexing difference that she can't read his thoughts at all, though she can hear everyone else's. And we know there's plenty going on in that brain of Jack's.

He seems to be highly empathic, too.

[cionaudha.livejournal.com]

"I could feel you scrabbling around in there."

But then you know I'm not convinced that Jack is Homo sapiens. Pregnant and psychic and whatnot. Though I'll allow that three thousand years of human (if human) development and Time Agent training could open up the psychic possibilities.

Homo avantgardicus, perhaps. ;-)

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

the even more perplexing difference that she can't read his thoughts at all

But he projects his thoughts to her when Mary is holding her hostage - so that argues for psychic ability as well.

[cionaudha.livejournal.com]

So far, I think the best moment of the Jack/Ianto romance is in Adam, when Ianto says he found meaning in life again through Jack, and Jack kisses his forehead.

It's just beautiful. But sad to think that here at last is Ianto's declaration ("What defines you?" "You.") and neither of them will remember it. The fervent tone, the posture of devotion... if I were Jack I'd need to remember it. So sad.

Perhaps the emotion of that moment will leave a trace untouched by Retcon?

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

I don't believe Owen is dead either, although I have read no spoilers whatsoever. I'm assuming in one or two episodes he'll be back. What clinched it for me was the way they didn't try to save him at all- no CPR no magical alien device, no attempt to prevent his demise.

re: young!jack- maybe he's more carefree now because of the pain and seriousness of his childhood?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

What clinched it for me was the way they didn't try to save him at all- no CPR no magical alien device, no attempt to prevent his demise.

Hmm, good point. That could be just that they wanted a dramatic ending to the episode - death as the ultimate climax. Which worked. But the outcome is - Owen will be back, I'm sure. I wonder if he'll be changed again.

maybe he's more carefree now because of the pain and seriousness of his childhood?

It could be. Or it could be that knowledge of what happened that day distorted Jack's memories. Or even that the boy had some sort of premonition. I like all those possibilities!

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

the memories being altered by the events that followed is highly possible as well.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

And goodness knows, there has been a lot of messing about with Captain Jack's memory. And in subjective terms... when he remembers his childhood, he's thinking back 160 years or more. In place far away in space and time.

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

to when he was literally a different person.

[halfspokenwords.livejournal.com]

There's also:

Owen: Who will save me?
Jack: I will.

Which could, of course, just be painfully ironic, but...

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

excellent point- I didn't even consider that!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I think it's prophetic.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

My goodness. Yes. Perfect ...

Funny: I was all depressed about Owen coming back but your saying his has suddenly and totally cheered me up. There are so many levels of heroism and ironic justice and spiritual forgiveness and redemption -

And really, Jack's job is to be a saviour. So.

We shall see, but I think this is very meaningful.