Torchwood: Kiss, Kiss, Bang, Bang...

[fajrdrako]

Well. I'd watched the trailers. I'd seen the clips. I'd read the interviews. And it was still better than I expected.

The highlight of the show was James Marsters as Captain John Hart, who, for all his advance publicity, was more outrageously entertaining than I'd imagined he could be. (Was Spike that good on Buffy?) In fact, all the relationships were fun - with interesting twists every which way.

I'm tempted to list one good line after another. I think the winner may be Captain John's "Five minutes to live, you want me to behave?" but I might have to listen a few more times to make the final choice of bon mot du jour.

Things I liked:

1. That the Torchwood team seems to have improved both their mastery of their technology and their manner of using it, though they don't seem a lot smarter than they were. Was I the only one shouting, "Gwen, don't turn your back on him?" when Gwen was with Captain John? And when she turned her back on him? ....But they do seem more competent, and I appreciate that. The episode's plot did not happen because they screwed up. I'd have been happier if Ianto hadn't failed to shoot the Blowfish.

2. Jack said, "I found my Doctor." With the sweetest smile. I melted. And: "I came back for you. All of you." Perfect. I loved all the references to this relationship with the Doctor, the Torchwood team (singly and together), to his time away from them, and their reactions. Especially Ianto, who fears - I would guess - that he'll have his heart broken again. How long was Jack gone from Torchwood? I couldn't tell.

3. Every reference to the Time Agency. And to Jack's past, with or without Captain John. Lots of good stuff, and more sense of how Jack feels about it, compared to his present. Grey? Oooh, Chibnall, you got me with that one. (Is Grey Jack's child?)

4. The omnisexuality. The flirting, the jokes, the kissing, the touching. What a contrast from last season! Not just bisexuality and an orgy reference - has Chibnall been reading our fanfic online? - but office fetishes and poodle-lust. My goodness.

5. Captain John Hart: Just the right combinations of funny, dangerous, outrageous, sexual, tricky and immoral. And I love his costume. Loved him clearing out the bar. Loved the whole flirtation/fighting with Captain Jack. Loved the mixed message of his bittersweet broken love for Jack and his callous revenges. (Lost his soul, and misses it.) Loved it that at the end he understood enough to want to join the team and stay with Jack.

6. Captain Jack: Fitting more into the ensemble group than before, but with some outstanding solo moments. "These people. This planet. All the beauty you can never see. That's what I came back for." Harkens back to his first speech in "Everything Changes": "I love this planet." He really does.

7. Gwen: Clearly miffed with Jack for leaving and not for confiding in them. Interesting scene where he said he came back "for you". Are we supposed to take the "all of you" for granted there? The ambiguity was interesting. And then the revelation of her engagement to Rhys. Loved that, and her phone conversation with Rhys. But I had the feeling that she's not as comfortable with the overall situation as she pretends: her love for Rhys seems tinged with condescension. Most obvious famous last words I've heard in a long time¹: "I can handle this." I loved, absolutely loved, her willingness to sacrifice herself to save Cardiff. This is why I love Gwen.

8. Owen: Do we believe him, that he's through chasing after women, looking for someone he has something in common with? Was he angling after Tosh there, or being oblivious? He did seem, in general, less annoying and more human than we've seen him in the past: I live in hope. But not, I hastily add, hope for a relationship between him and Tosh.

9. Toshiko: Perhaps the least changed, but I liked it that her intelligence and ingenuity was played up.

10. Ianto: Just about perfect. I haven't enjoyed him this much since "Cyberwoman". The pink and red shirts, the bits of action, the wariness with Jack, the glee with which he timed Captain John's incipient death with the stopwatch - oooh, I love a jealous Ianto. Dangerous! And I usually don't like jealousy as a theme, but this works perfectly, with a twitch of the eyebrow. Loved his scene with Captain John, too, when the Captain forced him into the elevator. Also the 'date' conversation between Ianto and Jack: "Is that a yes?" And Ianto's defensive, "Yes." His manner was just right through all of that: I have seldom been so impressed with Gareth David-Lloyd's acting. I wonder if we'll get to see their date. I wonder what movie they'd pick to see.

11. Nice moment when the team and then Jack came back to the hub to capture Captain John - all acting like a team. Solidarity rules! At last!

12. Jack taught John the lip-gloss trick? We thought it was Saffron.

13. Loved the theme of the beauty Jack finds on Earth, and John's difficulty in seeing it.

Good lines:

• "Bloody Torchwood."


• "This fish is wired." Also loved the way this tied into Captain John's arrival and the theme of his substance abuse.


• "I was hoping for a little power struggle, resolved by some naked wrestling."


• "This is one of your spooky-dooes, is it?"


• "What can you be doing that's more important than me?"


• "You were the wife!" "I was a good wife."


• "Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi."


• "What is this, sewer chic?"


• "Has he got to the 'no kissing' rule yet? He just invented that because wants me all to himself."
  
• "Your dolly-birds did all my work."


• "See you in hell." I loved that back on series 1 Doctor Who, too.


• "Rehab. Didn't really work."


• "Eye candy."


• "You are unbelievable." "And yet you still find me strangely attractive."


• "What about a last-minute rescue? What's the point of being on a team if you don't get a last-minute rescue?"


• "Temporal displacement. Makes your tongue tingle."


• "Remind me never to get on your bad side."


• "Definitely bigger."


• "That's a poodle."

I'd say, all in all, this is the second-best episode of Torchwood to date, second only to "Captain Jack Harkness".

~ ~ ~

¹ Well, actually, since three weeks ago, when the Doctor said to Astrid, "I will save you. I promise" in Voyage of the Damned. So not really all that long.

Comments

[goss.livejournal.com]

EEEEEE!!!! I just watched it. Wow. Everything you said! Captain John was perfect. So many sexual/slashy bits I don't even know where to start. It has been a long time since a show has made me want to BURST WITH *GLEE*.

*beam*

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

BURST WITH *GLEE*

Oh my goodness yes. "Gleeful" just about covers it. What a lovely, funny, smart, sexy show. I am thrilled. Still on a high from seeing it. Gotta watch it again tomorrow!

[darthhellokitty.livejournal.com]

That was great, wasn't it? XD

[chili-dance.livejournal.com]

I downloaded this episode with a handful of salt, since the one episode of s1 Torchwood I saw didn't really impress me that much, and a lot of what I was hearing about it was basically 'everyone wants to have sex. And Jack angsts in every episode,' so I was really turned off on it. But when you linked to previews of this one, I thought, 'what the hell,' especially since Martha's going to be in it later.

And now I think: wooooooow! Man, this was a really good episode. So I guess I'm going to have to go back and give s1 a better try. Thank you for giving me a nudge! (Even though you didn't know, heh.)

Best line was the Star Wars one, hands down~

[cyberducks.livejournal.com]

It was a great season opener!

that's a beautiful header for your lj...

[beck-liz.livejournal.com]

(Was Spike that good on Buffy?)

As with most things in fandom, it depends on who you ask. :-) I'd say yes; others would disagree and say that he was good in the early seasons, not so much later on, etc. *shrug* I do think the actor has improved with age, but he was still good back then.

But they do seem more competent, and I appreciate that. The episode's plot did not happen because they screwed up.

Yay! For once the disaster of the episode didn't happen because one of the team messed up! Whoo!

What a contrast from last season!

Dude, who knew we'd be getting this much? Wow.

I loved, absolutely loved, her willingness to sacrifice herself to save Cardiff. This is why I love Gwen.

Yes, yes, and yes. Loved that.

Nice moment when the team and then Jack came back to the hub to capture Captain John - all acting like a team.

Yay, team! Loved that. Especially loved the surprise punch for John of Jack's resurrection. Hee.

[wijsgeer.livejournal.com]

Ooh, a captain John cross ship with Saffron is scaring me to death!!

marvelous fun :-)

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

Yup, Spike was that good on Buffy. He was probably my favourite character. This comment: Just the right combinations of funny, dangerous, outrageous, sexual, tricky and immoral
could just as easily be applied to Spike, really. There are whole huge academic articles in Slayage about Spike's gender-coding as well.

I loved it all. Apart from the little weird moment between Jack and Gwen in the tunnel, which I still can't quite get my head around.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Such fun! Such sexiness! Such Captaincy!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

since the one episode of s1 Torchwood I saw didn't really impress me that much

Yes. Series 1 was strange. Not well written, on the whole, though it had brilliant moments; that, and my love of the characters (especially Jack) pulled me through. That, and the Doctor Who connection. Besides which I love the show and the idea of the show with a totally irrational fannish love. But I don't think series 1 was particularly good, it was mixed - sometimes great, sometimes terrible, sometimes various stages in between. There were episodes I thought were unquestionably good - "Captain Jack Harkness", "Out of Time" (though that's not a good one if you don't want to see Jack angst!), "Combat". But fans don't even agree about which were the good episodes, or what was good at them. Lots of fans hate "Cyberwoman", which is one of my favourites. (I guess I like Ianto-angst.)

I really look forward to Martha's appearance!

And yes, "Kiss, Kiss, Bang, Bang" was really good, and good on so many levels that it really does lead me to believe that they've rectified some of the problems (like rushed writing) that persisted through series 1.

Loved the Star Wars line.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

It was a great season opener!

And I hope for more of the same. Quality, I mean.

that's a beautiful header for your lj...

Provided by isagel. Isn't it gorgeous?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

As with most things in fandom, it depends on who you ask

I love fandom: the place where no one can agree on anything, but we all love it anyway.

For once the disaster of the episode didn't happen because one of the team messed up!

Long may that continue!

who knew we'd be getting this much?

I didn't dare to hope.

Especially loved the surprise punch for John of Jack's resurrection. Hee.

I think Jack enjoyed that, too. He had a trump card John didn't even know about.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Spike was that good on Buffy

I must (and will) watch that show. Just as soon as possible. If Marsters is reprising his best role, I'm all for it.

There are whole huge academic articles in Slayage about Spike's gender-coding as well.

Love it! ("I was a good wife." Hee.)

Apart from the little weird moment between Jack and Gwen in the tunnel, which I still can't quite get my head around.

I liked it (because I like Jack/Gwen stuff) but I found it totally perplexing and didn't know what to make of it. It was before Jack asked Ianto for a date, wasn't it? I don't remember. I have always believed that Jack would like to have an affair with Gwen but doesn't want to mess with her relationship with Rhys - I enjoy the hints of UST. Equally, Gwen wants Jack - but can't justify it, especially after having had an affair with Owen.

Jack let the engagement to Rhys totally deflect him, even though she almost came out and said, "I'd rather have you, if you give me a chance." So was Jack hoping to have both Ianto and Gwen as lovers? Or was he just acting on impulse?

And though I'm all for the Jack/Doctor (by far my favourite pairing), or Jack/Ianto, or Jack/John, or Jack/whoever, I like the reminder (speaking in terms of gender politics) that Jack is bisexual not homosexual and that he is not indifferent to women. I don't want him pegged as "the gay action hero" - a new stereotype. Better than the old ones, I suppose, but still a stereotype.

Am I rambling?

Just enjoying myself way too much.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

a captain John cross ship with Saffron is scaring me to death!!

Terrifying, isn't it?

They're so alike, now I think of it. Though as far as we know Saffron isn't into poisonous amounts of drugs and alcohol. But still.

Captain Jack and Mal would make a great opposing team, though.

(I wander away smiling as I muse on the thought.)

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

Hey, ramble away!

Buffy was my first real obsession with a show, and it set a really high standard. They were really good at having strong arcs across the individual seasons from S2 onwards, and though S1 doesn't quite hit it like the others do and is a bit more wobbly, it establishes the characters and style well. But it's S2 where the obsession really bit me. Heroes reminded me of it a little where you get that sense that you can't miss an episode because you might miss something important, though I have to say Buffy episodes generally could be watched as standalones because they had individual story arcs as well as fitting into the larger context to a greater or lesser extent - it was usually the ones towards the final few that all ran together. Heroes they all run together. Plus the dialogue in Buffy is fantastic, and I really loved some of the characters, the action was cool, and a girl kicked serious butt.

Ahem. I'll just ramble myself a lot, shall I?

The bit between Jack and Gwen is before he asks Ianto for a date but after the "I came back for you" *pause with camera on Ianto* "All of you" moment. It is a bit perplexing, not because Jack isn't capable of loving/desiring two people at once but because it just doesn't quite fit with Jack and Gwen from last season - I mean, that wasn't a hint of UST there, it was a bloody anvil and I think it was a lot more downplayed before.

I agree with your analysis of what they probably want and that Jack got deflected, but after last season where Jack was all about Gwen sticking with Rhys I found it bizarre that Jack got that close to making a move at all. I've seem some people reading it as Jack being a bit clingy about the Team now that he's back, but it still pings me as odd. And it frankly pisses me off on Rhys's behalf that Gwen implied she only got engaged to him because Jack wasn't around. (I have this secret wish for a fic where Jack seduces Rhys as a way of showing Gwen not to take him for granted so much, but only when she really annoys me).

[toraks.livejournal.com]

Interesting discussion.

I watched it. I really loved some bits (help me obi-wan, you are my only hope) but actually wasn't too impressed overall.

Coming into it, knowing nothing about the characters or their interactions, it didn't really hold my interest all that much. But then action sequences aren't really my thing.

I loved the john jack scene when they first met -- one of the reasons (other than you and kiki) for deciding to watch it was the commentary on BBC Radio 1 yesterday and John Barroman's comment to them along the lines that we was allowed to do a lot more in this show than ever before.

But I think the number of characters (hard time getting them all in my head) and Jack being very cocky made it hard to get into.

overall it was fun, but not necessarily compelling

like John in it though

he was great as Spike, and actually, this character is a lot like Spike's in Buffy, which threw me off a bit actually

[wijsgeer.livejournal.com]

It is perplexing if someone is suddenly encaged. Jack has been gone, returns and he finds that time hasn't stood still, the group dynamics, with Gwen in charge (remarkable given that she is the most recent addition?) are different.
Jack always seemed to have a bit of an ambiguous attitude towards Rhys. On the one hand, he wants Gwen and Rhys have a steady relationship so that Rhys can function as Gwen's anchor in reality/normal life. But I think he may not really see him as a person (have they interacted?), just fullfilling that role.
The encagementring is a reminder that Rhys is indeed real. That Gwen's life has gone on. Apart from feelings of sadness for their own romance that didn't get to be.

[halfspokenwords.livejournal.com]

So was Jack hoping to have both Ianto and Gwen as lovers? Or was he just acting on impulse?

While I wouldn't rule out the former (51st century mores, yay!), I tend to think that the latter fits with S1 canon better. I do think part of it was "I'm home, you're here, I've had a year of dying again and again and not being able to touch anyone..." and maybe an instance of Jack momentarily forgetting either that a) Gwen is off-limits (and maybe dangerously so, because she obviously feels for him) or b) that in the 21st century that sort of physicality is bound to say a whole lot more than it would in the 51st.

But I don't know. Am I rationalising, because I-- and here's a confession-- don't like Jack/Gwen? (not because I ship Jack/Ianto, which I do, or because I love Rhys, which I do, but because the forced nature of male lead/female lead relationships really annoys me.) Well, UST is fine, and anything one-sided from Gwen is fine, but any suggestion of Epic Romance just doesn't seem to fit with what we've been given so far.

I guess the conclusion is this: it was just a really odd scene, and seemed to come out of left field.

I'm not sure what the "no one else will have me" was about, either. If she was being honest, then I feel for Rhys-- that's an awful reason to marry someone. But then again, the phone conversation they had was very sweet, and seemed to suggest that they were working things out. And if she wasn't being honest, which is better for Rhys-- well, then, what? Was she just putting out feelers, trying to get Jack to say something about who else would have her...? But he didn't, so maybe now she can go and fully settle with (not for) Rhys?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Coming into it, knowing nothing about the characters or their interactions, it didn't really hold my interest all that much.

I can hardly imagine doing that, since so much of the storyline was sheer shippy stuff. Especially Jack's relationship with the team, both singly and together - sometimes edgy, sometimes warm - it's all fairly complicated now. There's a lot of story background, depending on various interactions in their past history. And the action sequences - well, I liked them because of who they were, but that wasn't exactly my focus. The amusing bits entwined in the ation (mostly character interaction) wouldn't make sense either if you didn't know the characters.

I loved the john jack scene when they first met

That was fun. Really set the tone - on numerous contradictory levels.

John Barroman's comment to them along the lines that we was allowed to do a lot more in this show than ever before.

I like that.


I think the number of characters (hard time getting them all in my head) and Jack being very cocky made it hard to get into.

Yes. We've had a season to get to know them. Jack was cocky in Doctor Who (series 1) and then not cocky in Torchwood series 1 - they've reverted to something closer to the original Jack, not the depressed and comparatively withdrawn Jack of series 1. I like his cockiness but it's best when tempered with scenes of his seriousness and his caring - which are the best of all. What I love most about Jack is that he is so very loving. Which maybe didn't show a lot on this episode, which was all about the edginess of his relationship with Captain John, and the difficulties now in his relationship with Ianto - since he'd pretty much abandoned Ianto at the end of last season, for the sake of the Doctor. He abandoned them all without a word, but it gets the most personal significance for Ianto, who was already his lover at the time. So Ianto is now defensive and crusty, doesn't know where he stands (if anywhere).

As for the relationship between Jack and Gwen - I wouldn't even try to explain that.

this character is a lot like Spike's in Buffy, which threw me off a bit actually

Do you mean, you didn't like it because the show copied Spike, or you were just surprised? I barely saw Buffy (though I do plan to watch it at the next opportunity) but my recollection of the bits and pieces I did see is that Spike was the best thing about the show. And I liked Captain John better than Spike because he was a human, not a vampire. I'm not big on vampires. Also because I think he has a wonderful costume.

[toraks.livejournal.com]

It threw my attention off a bit, because I was constantly comparing the two. I was never a Spike fan at all. :-( Actually my favorite buffy was the early high school stuff, and the Buffy Angel relationship.

In any case, I don't like vampires either. Or fighting. Which makes my love of Buffy inexplicable, except that it was more about the characters than the vampire/fighting bits.

But no, it wasn't that it was a copy of Spike as much as a kind of suprise that the John character was so similar. And then analyzing if they were really that similar,etc. that took my attention away from the show that was actually going on.

And yes, knowing more about season 1 and the relationships of the characters would certainly have helped as far as enjoyment! :-)

Jack actually seemed a bit fake and very cocky. I'll probably try to watch next week too though. :-)

[silverwhistle.livejournal.com]

Yes!!!! Wasn't it fabulous?! The writing seemed a lot sharper, wittier, punchier; the team seems to have matured and grown up (coping without Jack?); Jack isn't depressed any more; John is terrific fun; and... I want more car-driving fish. It's freaky and funny. (Loved the sushi joke when it was lying dead in the Hub.) The poodle line was brilliant, too. Are all time agents so versatile?! (I'm reminded of Jack chatting up everything and every species, including poor Chan, the blue insect-girl, in Utopia.)

[silverwhistle.livejournal.com]

'm not sure what the "no one else will have me" was about, either.

Fall-out from the Gwen/Owen relationship? She feels that Rhys is as good as she's going to get, having had her fingers burned with Owen?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Actually my favorite buffy was the early high school stuff, and the Buffy Angel relationship.

Hah! I hardly watched Buffy, and one of the main reasons I never watched what that I absolutely couldn't stand Angel. (I'm still not sure whether I'll be able to tolerate him on re-watching, but I'm going to try. I wonder if I'll be able to follow the storylines if I fast-forward through his scenes. Probably not.) So if I ever saw the Buffy/Angel relationship, and I'm pretty sure I did not, I can guarantee I would have hated it!

I'm hoping that the character bits on Buffy will pull me through. Angel notwithstanding. I am aware that he is going to be a big problem for me in trying to watch that show.

The reasons I'm planning to watch Buffy are not because friends I trust tell me it's great, or because I like Spike (though I do). It's because I like Joss Whedon's writing in Firefly so much that I want more. I am aware that Buffy is not Firefly but it's all I can get. (That and Astonishing X-Men and a few other comics.)

Jack actually seemed a bit fake and very cocky.

Well, he is. And good for you for picking up on the 'fake', though I think he's starting to fit in better in 20th century society than he did. The thing to remember about Jack is that he's a total con man, becoming what he wants or needs to be as the situation warrants. Since meeting the Doctor, he wants (very much) to be a hero and a good man, but he hadn't had much previous experience of that, so he's learning as he goes.

So he's a con man trying to be Earth's champion. He's a very loving man, deeply sincere in his loves (and honest in his lusts) but at the same time, he's not the least bit monogomous by culture, custom, habit or personal inclination. And that's important to an understanding of him. What I'm trying to say here is... he's fake in all superficial ways, but he's sincere in what he's doing. And he isn't shallow.

[silverwhistle.livejournal.com]

I liked Buffy – it filled the gap during the long, dark Who-less years! I didn't see the first series (or 2), but got hooked. Plus (bravely, for a US-made, teen-oriented show), it had one of the team, Willow (geeky, I suppose the Tosh-equivalent, with whom I identified) come out as a lesbian, go bad after her girlfriend's murder, be redeemed, and still be a lesbian.

[lacesforalady.livejournal.com]

*hides her virgin eyes* I haven't seen it yet!

I was wondering if you would mind being my grammar/plot beta on a bigbang fic that I've signed up to write. It'll be 20,000 words minimum (eek!), so if you don't feel up to a long-term commitment, it's totally cool.

I'm writing a genfic for Supernatural, and hopefully it shouldn't require too much background knowledge to read and enjoy.

*offers cookies*