Torchwood: Poking and prodding at the French..

[fajrdrako]

I continue to watch Torchwood "Tout Change" while exercising. I'm getting used to the language and voices now, but some bits perplex me, either for details of translation or articulation. I can't quite make out what Jack says when he says in the English version, "at least I won't get pregnant again." Perhaps a colloquialism I don't know? And when he says of Ianto "looks good in a suit", I don't understand Ianto's reply. "That's sexual harrassment, sir," in English, but in French it sounds as if he says something else entirely. It sounds like, "Alors, ç'est dur ça, attention!", but I don't understand that - "That's harsh, sir, watch out" - what am I misunderstanding? Does "dur" have a meaning I don't know?

A change in text, when Gwen tells Jack she found records of a Captain Jack Harkness who died in 1941. In English, Jack says, "Well, that couldn't be me." In French, he says, "Maybe that's me. Who knows?" ...Which, as a line, I rather like, playing up the way Jack is flirting with her on two levels at once: the personal and the informational. Appealing to both her sexuality and her curiosity - Gwen's two most pronounced personality traits.

Also - for the first time, it strikes me as strange that when Gwen follows the Torchwood SUV to Roald Dahl Plass, and she's distracted by the parking cop, and loses sight of the team - they must all have stepped onto the invisible lift at once. Together. Looking more closely at the next view of it, yes, there's space for all five of them, if they're standing really close together - but it remains a little surprising. Why didn't they take the door, as it seems they usually do? Perhaps just because they wanted to elude Gwen while setting up the pizza joke. But it does seem like part of the little metatextual mystery of "just how many entrances and exits does the Hub have?" and "why aren't the alternate routes used more?"

Not to mention the question of, "Where do they park the SUV, anyway?" Maybe Jack simply drove into their regular parking garage and Gwen didn't notice. Maybe its entrance is camouflaged or disguised, like the Del Floria's cleaners for U.N.C.L.E. headquarters.

Comments

[sparklebutch.livejournal.com]

French dubbing makes me rage.

Cat agrees with me.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I'm not raging yet. But I am frequently perplexed.

I think I should find someone whose French is excellent, who is willing to watch the episode with me so I can ask questions as we go and hopefully get answers.

[sparklebutch.livejournal.com]

Well, we're in France.

Congrats on the icon :)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

It's been too long since I've been in France. Way too long. I have this urge to visit the Loire Valley. Not randomly: there are rumours of a Dunnett fan tour in the works. I live in hope.

(Not that I can afford to go anywhere, but I can dream, right?)

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

"Where do they park the SUV, anyway?" Maybe Jack simply drove into their regular parking garage and Gwen didn't notice

Isn't it 4 of them Gwen sees walking towards the fountain? Jack, Tosh, Suzie and Owen? I always assumed Ianto was driving and dropped them off before taking the SUV to the garage.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Hmm, that would make sense - we don't see Ianto in the picture, though I had thought that Ianto wasn't with them at the hospital at all - of course he could have been with the SUV during that scene. I'd assumed he was back at the Hub. But it makes more sense if he was driving the SUV and parked it. Assuming there's no direct connection between the garage for the SUV, and Torchwood?

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

Well, according to the commentary for Day One, they planned the Hub with a direct connection to the garage. When Jack confronts Carys as she escapes, they're in front of double doors that are red with opaque windows and apparently on the Hub plans they lead to the garage (in real life they lead to nothing, obviously). It would make sense to have a direct connection, otherwise it would take too long in an emergency to get to the vehicle - personally I think they should have gone for the fireman's pole thing.

But the garage must be at least one level down from the Plass, so Ianto would have had to drive it around and down somewhere while the rest were on the lift.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

When Jack confronts Carys as she escapes, they're in front of double doors that are red with opaque windows and apparently on the Hub plans they lead to the garage

Cool! I didn't know that. (I haven't heard the commentaries.) Thanks for explaining.

Fireman's pole! Yes! Wouldn't that be fun?

[ide-cyan.livejournal.com]

"Alors, ç'est dur ça, attention!",

"C'est du harcèlement, ça, attention"? I don't have the French version on hand to listen to it again, but I think that was what he said. Harcèlement = harrassment.

I forget the exact words they used in the opening scene, but Jack does say he won't get pregnant again.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

"C'est du harcèlement, ça, attention"?

Yes, thank you, that's it! I don't know how I failed to get it this first time, but after reading your message I listened again, and that's it. Makes a lot more sense when you know.

I find it frustrating - that my French is good enough for 98% of it but sometimes I just miss the meaning of a sentence or phrase entirely. Or mishear it. Well, I do that with English TV too.

If you remember what Jack said about being pregnant, I'd appreciate the wording there, too. I'm glad to hear they didn't change things!

I'm really, really looking forward to the next episode.

[ide-cyan.livejournal.com]

Can you turn on the closed captioning? That really helps, especially in a second language.

I don't remember the whole sentence, but the French word for being pregnant which Jack used is "enceinte". It was probably something like "Je ne serais plus enceinte, au moins. Je ne referai jamais ça."

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Can you turn on the closed captioning? That really helps, especially in a second language.

Sadly, no. It would help.

It was probably something like "Je ne serais plus enceinte, au moins. Je ne referai jamais ça."

Sounds about right. I'll listen again this morning. That was what I was expecting, actually, but my ear couldn't fit the words and meaning into what I was hearing. This is probably mostly the 'getting used to the rhythms' phase - I remember having this problem a lot when I was first in England. I knew the language, I expected slightly different words sometimes and got them, but what threw me off was that people would say sentences with a different rhythm and intonation than I was used to, and even though the sentence itself might be simple, I couldn't understand a word. I'd be standing there saying 'Pardon?' and feeling like an idiot when they'd just asked me to shut the door or what the weather was like. It didn't take me long to get used to it, but for a while there, it was quite disorienting.

Anyway, I think this is what is happening - it isn't so much that my French vocabulary isn't (quite) up to it, but that I'm still working at the correspondence of sounds and words. So far, so good!

Thanks for your help and encouragement, I really appreciate it.

[schtroumph-c.livejournal.com]

Damn, I saw it yesterday, and I already forgot the exact words, beside "au moins, je serais pas enceint."

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I got lmondegreen to listen to it today - her French is much better than mine. We figure that Jack said, "Au moins, je ne serai plus jamais enceint." I think I was initially thrown off by his saying "enceint" instead of "enceinte" like my ear expected - silly me!

[duncanmac.livejournal.com]

"C'est du harcèlement, ça, attention!"

I'm not even sure that phrase is used in Parisian French, though I have seen harcèlement in advertisements and the like here in Ottawa (and in Quebec).

I am again reminded of just different the semantic patterns of languages even as closely akin as English and French are.

Someday (if I ever have the time -- and MONEY), I intend to take an immersion course and get the rust off my spoken French. Remind me about it ... in another five years. :-/

[ide-cyan.livejournal.com]

Translations intended for dubbing can contain some awkward ways to phrase things, because of the necessity for the dialogue to synchronise with the lip movement and rhythm of conversations intended for another language.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Yes, and it's probably really, really good for me to get my ear attuned to this. I think it will soon become suddenly much easier - I'll get to the point where I don't have to listen quite so closely to actually catch/understand the words. That's my hope, anyway.

As far as making the words fit the lips, and the language catch the sense, and the intonation of the voice actors fit the characters - I think that on the whole, they're doing a terrific job. In some shows, the dubbing is annoying - sometimes to the point where I can't listen and watch at the same time. Here's it's quite smooth - as it should be.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

"C'est du harcèlement, ça, attention!"

I'm not even sure that phrase is used in Parisian French

My understanding is that this is dubbed in France, so it must be. Why do you think they would use a different word?

I am again reminded of just different the semantic patterns of languages even as closely akin as English and French are.

Yes, and so often the same word (or a similar word) is used in such different ways that it's confusing.

I intend to take an immersion course and get the rust off my spoken French

I'd love to do that, too. Six months in a cottage near Poitou would do it.

Bonne chance!

[jeanquirieplus.livejournal.com]

It is french, not just Parisian either. I'm from the Auvergne, and we still say "harcelement." I'm not sure why anyone would want to watchthe series dubbed in french, though. Our dubbing is usually completely awful. Except for Star Wars- Yoda speaking in a latin-based language is pure genius. :)

And lol on Jack saying "enceint"- there isn't a masculine version to that word because in the past there hasn't needed to be, so it's always "enceinte." Torchwood, giving the Academie Francaise hell since 2006...

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure why anyone would want to watchthe series dubbed in french, though.

A peculiar brand of Canadian insanity? No, really, I want to practise my French. And becuase it's fun.

So far (as of the first episode) the dubbing is better than most. Well... most of the time.

I can't imagine Star Wars in French and I'm not sure I want to.

Yes, I loved that about Jack saying he'd been 'enceint' - so very Captain Jacklike to mess up the linguistic norms like that!