So spake Harlan Ellison ...
Dec. 18th, 2007 04:08 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
fajrdrakoStar Wars is adolescent nonsense; Close Encounters is obscurantist drivel; Star Trek can turn your brains to puree of bat guano; and the greatest science fiction series of all time is Doctor Who! ...This TV viewing will not harm you ... will, in fact, delight and uplift you, stretch your imagination; tickle your risibilities, cleanse your intellect of all lesser visual SF affections... Doctor Who is the apex, the pinnacle, the Louvre Museum, the top, the Coliseum, and other et cetera. -- Harlan Ellison
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Date: 2007-12-18 09:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-12-19 12:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-12-18 09:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-12-19 12:07 am (UTC)I really can't bring myself to approve of Harlan Ellison (especially insofar as he was once gratuitously rude to me), but he does have his moments.
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Date: 2007-12-18 10:07 pm (UTC)Then again, "de-lovely" is now on a department store commercial, so...
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Date: 2007-12-19 12:05 am (UTC)Then again, "de-lovely" is now on a department store commercial, so...
I wish I could disbelieve that. But at least he's in good company, with Mozart, Beethoven and Puccini!
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Date: 2007-12-18 10:48 pm (UTC)Just kidding -- Harlan's okay. And Who is the best.
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Date: 2007-12-19 12:03 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-12-18 11:13 pm (UTC)Please. From everything I've heard, Doctor Who is a terrific SF show with no need for validation from the likes of Harlan "Legend In My Own Mind" Ellison.
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Date: 2007-12-18 11:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-12-18 11:56 pm (UTC)Between him and his buddy, Whiny Walter Koenig, I'm not sure which is worse. Well, know -- Whiny Walteris worse. Ellison does at least have some writing talent. But not enough to justify his gargantuan and repellant ego.
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Date: 2007-12-19 12:45 am (UTC)Usually I pretty much like people when I meet them. I disliked Walter Koenig. And though I didn't dislike Ellison, he disliked me - how's that for bad taste? - and I didn't approve of him or his incredibly large ego.
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Date: 2007-12-19 03:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-12-19 12:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-12-18 11:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-12-18 11:44 pm (UTC)Not one of my favourite people, Harlan Ellison, but an interesting person.
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Date: 2007-12-19 12:06 am (UTC)"The Making of Star Trek" said so, but then it also said Roddenberry had never laid eyes on Nichelle Nichols before they met on the set. (They were actually in the middle of an affair at the time.)
But yeah, apparently Harlan didn't want anyone editing/reworking the script but him, which resulted in his putting rather more time in the project than anticipated. He also seems to have had some problems with changes they made to his version of the Guardian and its ruins to keep the sets within budget.
But Harlan doesn't exactly have a rep for being the most easy to get along with SF writer out there. *wry g*
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Date: 2007-12-19 12:40 am (UTC)That would explain Ellison's attitude, but also, he made a career of being clever, grouchy and cantankerous. So. His rep was well-earned.
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Date: 2007-12-19 12:49 am (UTC)Yeah, it came out in her biography, IIRC. There was even a picture of her, Roddenberry, and his wife sharing a table in a restaurant.
Which was a total 180 from the quote from her in tMoST, where she claimed not to have had any clue who he was when he said something to her the first day on the set.
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Date: 2007-12-19 12:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-12-19 09:17 pm (UTC)Roddenberry was VERY good at swooping in at the last moment and saving a terrible situation, tops at crisis management... alas, if there was no crisis, he'd manufacture one. He apparently kept coming back to Ellison, who was a beginner writer at the time and didn't have a lot of power, telling him that the NBC execs had demanded this change and that change and it had to be done NOW, NOW, NOW... Ellison was literally on-set, typing with little in the way of sleep or food for DAYS. Turned out the NBC execs hadn't asked for any changes at all, it was just Roddenberry making a crisis so that he could solve it. (This was confirmed by outside sources, not just Ellison making a hero of himself.) Roddenberry made certain promises to Ellison about his script that he did not keep -- uppermost was that he'd keep in the script a legless WW1 veteran who was a beggar rolling around on a cart, who helps Kirk and Spock by getting them back their phaser from the bad guys at a critical moment. Um... no. Just no. Very dramatique and heart-tugging in a film, perhaps, but it didn't feel like Star Trek.
Frankly most of the changes made to Ellison's script are for the better, getting rid of convolutions in the plot, and as another benefit, made the episode cheaper to film by getting rid of superfluous characters -- the elimination of an ancient alien race and replacing it with the donut of time, the elimination of a pair of criminals on the Enterprise/making the injection an accident rather than a crime, getting rid of a time-line screw up that put space pirates up there instead of the Enterprise. How much more beautiful is it when Kirk looks up and NOTHING flies above the planet, rather than a space-pirate ship? And getting rid of Tripper, the crippled WW1 vet. Ellison REALLY loved Tripper.
However: Ellison's ending to the episode is WAY THE HELL more slashy than the simple "Forget" ending. I mean, over the frickin' top slashy! ;)
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Date: 2007-12-19 11:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-12-20 03:41 am (UTC);)
The "forget" ending is way more elegant and powerful, and more in character for Spock. And still pretty frickin' slashy.
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Date: 2007-12-27 06:35 pm (UTC)Oooh - how poetic! How romantic!
I like the 'forget' ending, but "silver birds" is better.
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Date: 2007-12-18 11:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-12-19 12:43 am (UTC)That being said, I don't care if I ever see Star Trek again, and I'm currently madly in love with Doctor Who.
Is it very fannish of me to think that bat guano sounds like a Batman reference, and is therefore a Good Thing?
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Date: 2007-12-19 04:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-12-19 12:46 pm (UTC)My library does have one videotape of one Doctor Who story, from the Tom Baker era. I find it really difficult to track it down in the card catalogue because it isn't under "Baker, Tom" or "Doctor Who" or "Dr Who" or any variation I can think of - I eventually found it on a search for Elisabeth Sladen, who plays his companion, Sarah Jane Smith. It's listed by the title of the story itself, which I never remember. I haven't watched it yet.
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Date: 2007-12-19 12:52 pm (UTC)That sounds like bad cataloging, hehe. A few other local libraries have seasons of Doctor Who so I've used that as to why we should own it too, hah!
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Date: 2007-12-19 02:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-12-19 05:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-12-19 05:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-12-19 07:41 pm (UTC)Thought so.
Love you madly, you clever grinning panda!
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Date: 2007-12-19 08:34 pm (UTC)But he quote Cole Porter, so there's a streak of something good in him. Not to mention "City on the Edge of Forever".
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Date: 2007-12-19 07:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-12-19 08:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-12-19 09:00 pm (UTC)Ellison is weird, but I know his type. He always has to be the good guy, the hero of the story, which means someone else has to be the villain. He tells these stories where he is this vanquishing hero who saved the day or had the right riposte at the right moment. The first time I met him, he decided he hated my guts and was really mean to me -- and I mean, cruelly mean, and for no freakin' reason! The next day I wore contacts and a very different dress, and he didn't know I was that woman he detested and went after. He told me the story of this dreadful woman he'd crossed swords with the day before in an attempt to get my sympathy and awe! Yes, that dreadful woman was *me* and that's not how it happened, Mr. Ellison (not that I told him she was me, that's just what I was thinking as he spoke!) According to a friend who was his minder at that convention, it seems every time he told the story of this mean woman, she got bitchier and Ellison got more and more valiant in the telling of the tale.
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Date: 2007-12-19 09:10 pm (UTC)LOL - really? I am amused.
Ellison also calls Han Solo a pantywaist in that essay
I wonder why. I can think of many words to describe Han Solo, but 'pantywaist' isn't one of them. Perhaps because Princess Leia bullied him? I hated that, but I blamed her, not him. Han Solo was IMHO by far the best thing about Star Wars, until Liam Neeson and Ewan McGregor came along.
Where did you get the quote from?
A friend phoned me and dictated it to me over the phone. It was from an encyclopedia or history of Doctor Who - I don't know which one.
He always has to be the good guy, the hero of the story, which means someone else has to be the villain.
Or, worse, he has to be the clever one besides which everyone else's stupidity is measured. I'm no apologist for the man, I assure you! He reminds me of the talk show hosts who love to be offensive in order to rile people up and get calls.
The first time I met him, he decided he hated my guts and was really mean to me -- and I mean, cruelly mean, and for no freakin' reason!
Yes, he did that with me, too - for absolutely no reason, and I felt bad for the mutual friend who was introducing us, obviously expecting we would have a good conversation. I was not exactly devastated by Ellison's rudeness - since I'd been annoyed by his arrogance in the past - and I didn't care what (if anything) he thought of me; but I was somewhat shocked by the rudeness. If you're setting yourself up as a Good Guy in a world of villains, why attack people who've done you no harm?
Ah well, as one Ellison victim to another, I offer you a grin and a hug and a secret handshake. I'm sure we are legion.
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Date: 2007-12-19 09:29 pm (UTC)LOL - really? I am amused.
Yup, I bet that essay was recycled from all those paperbacks for the encyclopedia. I remember being a little pissy that the intro to every adaptation was the same damned essay, so they wouldn't have a problem recycling it some more.
Ellison also calls Han Solo a pantywaist in that essay
I wonder why. I can think of many words to describe Han Solo, but 'pantywaist' isn't one of them.
Yeah, I suspect it's that whole "This one is a hero so that one must be the bad guy or a loser" thing Ellison has going on, isn't it! They can't be awesome together, one of 'em has to play the chump in his eyes. I love Han Solo and would love to see a nice crossover with Dr. Who now!
I was way the hell less devastated by Ellison's rudeness than I was by the fact that not a single one of my friends took Ellison to task for his crazed lunacy and no one stood up for me. They all made believe it wasn't even happening! Worse convention EVAR, at least until I turned it around the next day and made a fool out of Ellison by being another person and getting the story of the evil woman told to me.
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Date: 2007-12-19 11:57 pm (UTC)That might be fun! I have thought about doing a Captain Jack Harkness/Han Solo crossover, but I don't have a good idea for it - they're too alike in too many ways.
not a single one of my friends took Ellison to task for his crazed lunacy and no one stood up for me.
That's a shame.
What convention was it? Except from that one time in New York (which wasn't a convention), I only ever saw him at San Diego Comic Con.
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Date: 2007-12-20 03:49 am (UTC)I cannot believe I just wrote a mini-essay comparing & contrasting Jack Harkness and Han Solo. ;)
It was at a convention in Wisconsin, with Ellison, Neil Gaiman, and Peter David, if I remember it correctly. I've been to a lot of cons over the years and they all start to blend together at some point.
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Date: 2007-12-20 03:55 am (UTC)But you're right, Captain Jack is smarter, more complex, perkier and darker. More... everything. Han Solo arguably has better boots, but Jack has the better coat. Jack has a better coat than anyone.
I cannot believe I just wrote a mini-essay comparing & contrasting Jack Harkness and Han Solo. ;)
And a damn good one, too.
I've been to a lot of cons over the years and they all start to blend together at some point.
Oh my goodness, yes, a hearty 'me too'. The dates and cities all blur. "That time I saw so-and-so, what city was that?" Usually I can remember what country the cons were in - and count myself lucky for that part!
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Date: 2007-12-23 02:30 am (UTC):)
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Date: 2007-12-23 02:51 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-12-23 03:26 am (UTC)[offers chaise longue suitable for swooning upon]
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Date: 2007-12-23 09:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-12-23 10:48 pm (UTC)