The pattern being the same for Sarah Jane as it was for the Doctor reinforces my belief that she's supposed to be Doctor Mark III (Jack is Mark II), what with her sonic lipstick.
I would agree with that.
I can't imagine Jack in TW reacting the way he did in "Utopia" towards the news of Chantho's dead conglomeration...
I can, fairly easily. In TW Jack vacillates between depression and detatchment, and engagement and caring. It would depend which mode he was in. Or which mood.
Sarah Jane and Jack should be themselves, not imitations of the Doctor.
I agree, but I like the way Jack recreates himself and grows by emulating those he admires and loves. He did it with Captain Jack Harkness, stealing his name and identity and the clothing of his time, and then trying to be that kind of hero. (This before he had even met him and loved him.) He makes the Doctor his hero, and then recreates his life - particularly his goals and his morality, or the Doctor's morality as Jack sees it - in the image of the Doctor. Which is great, as long as it's morality I like, which on Jack's part, it has been. I like that.
And I don't want or expect Jack or the Doctor to be perfect. But I also don't want them to act in ways I find annoying, distressing, unlikeable or disgusting. They are, or ought to be, heroes.
I can fanwank the Doctor's coldness when he sees Jack, dead on the ground (feeling the prejudice), but when Jack does the power boost and the electricity courses through him and he dies? And Martha starts CPR and the Doctor stops her, gets her to stand beside himself instead of with Jack? That really pissed me off.
Yes. He seems to be deliberately unkind throughout that whole sequence. I didn't mind the first time I saw it; I was intrigued; wondering why he was so cold and unfeeling towards Jack, and enjoying the edged banter.
So we learn that it was prejudice - okay, I could accept that, and take his attitude as defensiveness: he's being cruel because he is fighting an impulse to be kind, becuase he has mixed and conflicted feelings. I like mixed and conflicted feelings - if they are resolved in a way I like. So I hoped and expected the Doctor would simply remember how he once loved Jack, and see Jack's accomplishments, and with a big hug and a smile rapport would and should be re-established.
Only it didn't happen that way.
And I could forgive it more if he'd shown love/affection for Martha, and I'm one of those fans who thinks he was leading her on and then pushing her away fairly constantly.
Jack seems to be able to forgive the Doctor anything, but I find it a little more difficult.
Thanks for explaining about Felicity Kendall. I haven't seen any of those shows. Will keep an eye open for her in future.
I don't care if the Doctor gets smacked down - I think I'd rather see him simply change for the better out of his own choice. Or show himself capable of some sort of love and caring and unselfish action.
getting a job and supporting herself and Ten in "Blink"
My thought at the time? "I hope he's sleeping her, because she sure doesn't seem to be getting much in return for her devotion!"
Apparently, even dying for the Doctor isn't enough (see Jack).
It doesn't seem to even earn him brownie points. In "The Parting of the Ways" it seemed right that Jack would put his life on the line because the Doctor was doing the same, and they had the same goal - to fight and stop the Daleks. But somehow the balance changed.
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timeasmymeasure
Re: reply part 1
Date: 2007-10-20 04:35 pm (UTC)I would agree with that.
I can't imagine Jack in TW reacting the way he did in "Utopia" towards the news of Chantho's dead conglomeration...
I can, fairly easily. In TW Jack vacillates between depression and detatchment, and engagement and caring. It would depend which mode he was in. Or which mood.
Sarah Jane and Jack should be themselves, not imitations of the Doctor.
I agree, but I like the way Jack recreates himself and grows by emulating those he admires and loves. He did it with Captain Jack Harkness, stealing his name and identity and the clothing of his time, and then trying to be that kind of hero. (This before he had even met him and loved him.) He makes the Doctor his hero, and then recreates his life - particularly his goals and his morality, or the Doctor's morality as Jack sees it - in the image of the Doctor. Which is great, as long as it's morality I like, which on Jack's part, it has been. I like that.
And I don't want or expect Jack or the Doctor to be perfect. But I also don't want them to act in ways I find annoying, distressing, unlikeable or disgusting. They are, or ought to be, heroes.
I can fanwank the Doctor's coldness when he sees Jack, dead on the ground (feeling the prejudice), but when Jack does the power boost and the electricity courses through him and he dies? And Martha starts CPR and the Doctor stops her, gets her to stand beside himself instead of with Jack? That really pissed me off.
Yes. He seems to be deliberately unkind throughout that whole sequence. I didn't mind the first time I saw it; I was intrigued; wondering why he was so cold and unfeeling towards Jack, and enjoying the edged banter.
So we learn that it was prejudice - okay, I could accept that, and take his attitude as defensiveness: he's being cruel because he is fighting an impulse to be kind, becuase he has mixed and conflicted feelings. I like mixed and conflicted feelings - if they are resolved in a way I like. So I hoped and expected the Doctor would simply remember how he once loved Jack, and see Jack's accomplishments, and with a big hug and a smile rapport would and should be re-established.
Only it didn't happen that way.
And I could forgive it more if he'd shown love/affection for Martha, and I'm one of those fans who thinks he was leading her on and then pushing her away fairly constantly.
Jack seems to be able to forgive the Doctor anything, but I find it a little more difficult.
Thanks for explaining about Felicity Kendall. I haven't seen any of those shows. Will keep an eye open for her in future.
I don't care if the Doctor gets smacked down - I think I'd rather see him simply change for the better out of his own choice. Or show himself capable of some sort of love and caring and unselfish action.
getting a job and supporting herself and Ten in "Blink"
My thought at the time? "I hope he's sleeping her, because she sure doesn't seem to be getting much in return for her devotion!"
Apparently, even dying for the Doctor isn't enough (see Jack).
It doesn't seem to even earn him brownie points. In "The Parting of the Ways" it seemed right that Jack would put his life on the line because the Doctor was doing the same, and they had the same goal - to fight and stop the Daleks. But somehow the balance changed.