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I finished the book. Now I have ten minutes to make a few comments.

Woo. Difficult to confine it to ten minutes.

It wasn't what I expected, even having read spoilers. It was loads better than I expected. I'm not a very enthusiastic Harry Potter fan in general: I have enjoyed all the books, but without passion. I cared far more for the characters and the action in this one than I've cared yet to date. I liked Harry this time, a lot. Never felt much empathy for him before. And Dumbledore! I have notoriously disliked Dumbledore from the beginning. But this book addressed all my problems with Dumbledore, in just the right way. I loved Dumbledore by the end.

Who'd have guessed it was possible?

A few more thoughts:
  1. The book improved as it went on. It built on iteself and became quite suspenseful. I couldn't guess what was coming - and I always like that.


  2. I thought Harry's non-death scene was wonderful. Powerful, interesting... Has Rowling's writing really improved, or is it just me?


  3. I loved Mrs. Weasley's moment of heroic battle.


  4. I hated Dobby and the house-elves previously. Loved the Dobby scenes here. Still don't look forward to them in a movie, but... my attitude has certainly changed.


  5. I loved the way Harry seemed so adult and mature.


  6. I've been a fan of Ginny since the beginning and a big proponent of the Ginny/Harry romance. Loved all the allusions to it. At the same time, it was a little disconcerting that Ginny was such a small part of the story. Harry loved her, but for the bulk of the book he didn't seem to even give her a thought. I was relieved when he finally did. Yes, I know, Harry Potter isn't genre romance, but Hermoine was such a strong presence in the book that it seems a shame that she and Harry weren't a match. I prefer the Ginny/Harry ship, but I'd consequently like to see Ginny as more of a presence and a personality.


  7. Of all the characters I have never been enchanted with, the only one who didn't win me over by the end was Ron Weasley. He did have his moments, but I still think of him as the least interesting and appealing of the Weasleys. Percy surprised and delighted me by turning his coat and coming back into the fold. What happened to George after Fred died?


  8. I liked McGonagall too - hadn't thought of her as a battle maiden.


  9. I liked some of the set pieces, like the magic sword (and its double), and the statues, and the Lovegood tower.


  10. Snape - always my favourite character, now redeemed. I am happy about this. Very happy.


  11. I thought we were going to see the total downfall of the Ministry. I guess not. Or at least.... I am unclear about what follows. Perhaps it doesn't matter. Hogwarts continues. Harry continues. The children thrive.


  12. Loved Harry's thought about himself, Voldemort and Snape being the homeless boys.


  13. I liked the connection with the fairy tales and the history.


  14. I never, never thought I would be moved by something Rowling had written, but the Doctor was right; I got slightly teary over the climax. Amazing!


  15. I would still choose to be in Slytherin.





Date: 2007-07-25 05:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] monsieureden.livejournal.com
According to an online quiz, I am Ravenclaw.

I liked this book too. I have issues as always but liked it. But I have liked them all. They went from simple pleasure to something much deeper, which I think nicely mirrors Harry's maturity.

Harry's acceptance of death was really quite moving, and the Hogwarts children fighting back was great. I thought it was intriguing that Voldemort still had a chance to feel remorse in the end, to save himself, if he wanted. Harry giving him that opportunity was a twist I hadn't foreseen.

The WSJ was all over all the Christian symbolism in this book, ironic as many of these same people protested the story early on.

I also wanted more Ginny. I thought she would play a bigger role in this finale. Hmm. I have always loved Ron, just for his simple loyalty and friendship (without being overly brave or intelligent). It's why I was upset when he left the trio in the last book and very happy when he came back. I would say up until more recent books, he was my favorite character of the children.

Did you like Neville?

Snape wins, hands down, at life! He's the best part of the books.

Date: 2007-07-25 01:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
I am Ravenclaw

I haven't much sense of Ravenclaw - are they the clever, studious ones?

They went from simple pleasure to something much deeper, which I think nicely mirrors Harry's maturity.

I would agree with that.

Harry's acceptance of death was really quite moving

I really loved that.

I thought it was intriguing that Voldemort still had a chance to feel remorse in the end, to save himself, if he wanted.

Yes. I wonder what would have happened if he had been remorseful. What place is there in the world for a remorseful former Dark Lord? (Mental image of the last Emperor of China scrubbing floors.)

I mostly ignored the Christian symbolism, but yes - I didn't remember symboism being a part of the books before. Had I just missed that?

Ron's simple loyalty? I won't argue - we all interpret characters as we see them - but what I was bothered by was his frequent simple disloyalty to Harry. Over and over.

Yes, I like Neville, and I loved him by the end.

Snape wins, hands down, at life! He's the best part of the books.

So very true. I wish Voldemort had had a fraction of his personality. I found Voldemort very bland.

Date: 2007-07-25 03:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] monsieureden.livejournal.com
[Error: Irreparable invalid markup ('<i?i>') in entry. Owner must fix manually. Raw contents below.]

<i?I haven't much sense of Ravenclaw - are they the clever, studious ones?</i>

Yes, who like to read, lol.

I didn't notice Christian symbolism either until this review went on about the concept of redemption and mercy and someone dying to bring about a bigger good, etc. and so on. I think you could find symbolism in anything if you're looking for it.

I never felt Ron was disloyal, except perhaps when he abandoned the trio in this book, and that was partly because of the horcrux he was wearing. He came back and, I think, apologized for it. I've mostly viewed him as perhaps having some jealousy towards Harry that seems natural per being the best of friend of someone with so much significance and destiny. I think he deals with this well on the whole. Worst friends would have turned against Harry.

I wonder why they had to wear that stupid horcrux? Just cause it's a necklace doesn't mean you have to wear it, and if it's negatively affecting you (as it was all three of them) why not just put it in your pouch?

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Deathly Hallows

Date: 2007-07-25 06:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] raissad.livejournal.com
I liked McGonagall too - hadn't thought of her as a battle maiden.

I hope that they really give Maggie Smith the floor for those scenes, and don't cut them all for time.

I'm more of a fan, so I really loved what she did. What I didn't like was the epilogue. I really wanted a rundown on all of the survivors and their futures. It was too short.

All of the Order-related deaths (including Snape, of course) were sad in different ways, but Hedwig's was the most shocking.

Re: Deathly Hallows

Date: 2007-07-25 01:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
I hope that they really give Maggie Smith the floor for those scenes, and don't cut them all for time.

I agreee! I'm not a big Maggie Smith fan but she'd be magnificent here.

I really wanted a rundown on all of the survivors and their futures. It was too short.

I didn't mind its shortness but I did want more of a sense of what Harry's life had become. I am still vague on the details of a wizard's life if he isn't in Hogwarts or in the Ministry. Bill works with dragons in Romania. Is that what the average wizard does? The world and the lifestyle still seem unclear to me.

Hedwig's was the most shocking

I confess that it surprised me, but I suppose I should also confess that it didn't shock me or sadden me or get much of a reaction from me at all.




Date: 2007-07-25 07:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kikibug13.livejournal.com
7. As [personal profile] mightygodking wrote:
Ron Weasley: date rapist, hypocrite, general idiot, total chickenshit, whiny bitch, manic depressive, double dealer and bloodthirsty savage. (that amusingly snarky review I found actually lovely!)

I'm still up to Lupin announcing Teddy's birth or thereabouts (swamped under work, I'm still cheating myself from some sleep to read...)
Weirdly enough, I got teary at the scene where Harry kicks Remus back to his family (figuratively) - partly because I knew both Remus and Tonks wouldn't survive, so every day mattered...

15. I'm Ravenclaw, and I think I'm Ravenclaw through and through.

Re Rowling's writing improving... she still has huge slips. To quote:
Thrashing, suffocating, he scrabbled at the strangling chain, his frozen fingers unable to loosen it, and now little lights were popping inside his head, and he was going to drown, there was nothing left, nothing he could do, and the arms that closed around his chest were surely Death’s. . . .

Ahem.

Anyhoo. The story is interesting. I think it was unnecessary complicated at times... but I have yet to finish it.

But there are other fantasy worlds where I would much more willingly spend my time, once I can honestly say that I've read it and I can have my opinion, instead of relying on second-hand information.

Date: 2007-07-25 07:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kikibug13.livejournal.com
(oh dear. Such a pity... I just saw that the journal I linked at the top has been suspended. That review was brilliant!)

Date: 2007-07-25 09:54 am (UTC)
ext_120533: Deseine's terracotta bust of Max Robespierre (Default)
From: [identity profile] silverwhistle.livejournal.com
Yes, it was a wonderful review! I haven't read the books (I tried the first one, and found JKR's prose… lumpy), but I've kept up with the gossip.

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Date: 2007-07-25 12:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
Ron Weasley: date rapist, hypocrite, general idiot, total chickenshit, whiny bitch, manic depressive, double dealer and bloodthirsty savage. (that amusingly snarky review I found actually lovely!)

I've been meaning to read that review - I think it's still online, just no longer on LJ. Which is too bad. Why does he call Ron a date rapist? Did I miss something? I don't think he's manic depressive either - if anyone in the books is, it's Harry - but 'whiny bitch' meets the mark for me. And 'disloyal friend'. He did have a good moment in the recent movie, though.

I didn't know Tonks and Lupin wouldn't survive. I wonder if it would have changed my attitude to them if I'd known that ahead of time.

Re Rowling's writing: well, yes. From bland to turgid. But her action flows.

I'm feeling less crititical of her than usual, having just finished and enjoyed the last book - so much more than all the others combined. I still don't much like her style of magic or her world-building, but at least this time I liked her characters.

And oddly enough, I'm enjoying Harrius Potter et Philosophi Lapis much more than I enjoyed the English original.

Date: 2007-07-25 01:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kikibug13.livejournal.com
The review was definitely good.
Date rapist was in connection with the book he gave Harry as a present, and a comment he made at the time, about Lavender. (Although the comment was slightly misinterpreted, I think).
Manic depressive is regarding the mood swings culminating in his leaving, IIRC, but I am not sure if it was just that.

Oh, I'd totally spoilered myself, especially as regards Tonks (and I've loved Lupin ever since his first appearance in the books - he chased away the dementor - and then he gave the kids chocolate. Win-win!). And I think it did change my attitude a little, there as well as on Lupin's joy at the birth of Teddy.

I have quibbles with her action. It's too chaotic for me; new ideas introduced in the middle of the action just tends to make things murky (like that fire that destroyed the diadem...)
Still, there is enough pith to get me thoroughly gripped at the moment. (And YAY! I though Dumbledore's sister was not a squib! Though that story turned out even darker than I imagined...)

And enjoying the Latin translation more than the original? Well... as a German friend remarked last night, maybe the style improves with translation...

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Date: 2007-07-25 01:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kikibug13.livejournal.com
http://theheretic.livejournal.com/475684.html - I think somebody pasted it there - seems complete without the overall conclusion ("C-, better read than the half-blood prince, but then a phone book is a better read than the half-blood prince," etc.)

Date: 2007-07-25 10:01 am (UTC)
ext_120533: Deseine's terracotta bust of Max Robespierre (Default)
From: [identity profile] silverwhistle.livejournal.com
Re: 7.
I cannot bear the idea of Hermione being married to him. She deserves so much better.

Re: 10.
Agreed entirely, and I understand that sundry ficcers are doing what they can to repair him. ;-D
(Some of us have been discussing whether he is the real hero of the series…)

Date: 2007-07-25 01:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
I cannot bear the idea of Hermione being married to him. She deserves so much better.

I agree. I tend to deal with Ron by ignoring him as much as I can. I was surprised to read on one of my email lists that Ron is a favourite among the 17 year old set, and women our age were agreeing. Hweate the helle? Have they no taste?

As for Snape - the only difference in terms of 'who was the hero' that I can see is in point of view. We got Harry Potter's point of view of the action, not Snape's. It could have been either way.



Date: 2007-07-25 01:49 pm (UTC)
ext_120533: Deseine's terracotta bust of Max Robespierre (Default)
From: [identity profile] silverwhistle.livejournal.com
I agree. I tend to deal with Ron by ignoring him as much as I can. I was surprised to read on one of my email lists that Ron is a favourite among the 17 year old set, and women our age were agreeing. Hweate the helle? Have they no taste?

They're only young, but… Hell, at 17, I had far better taste than that!

And I'm disappointed that Rowling sees no other long-term future for a bright, intellectual young woman than early marriage (and to Ron, of all people!) and breeding. She doesn't even seem to have wizard universities, just has her witches and wizards pair off (mainly with schoolmates) within a couple of years of leaving school. What a hellish existence!

As for Snape - the only difference in terms of 'who was the hero' that I can see is in point of view. We got Harry Potter's point of view of the action, not Snape's. It could have been either way.

Yes. And I think it depends on fan-age, too. A morally complex, tragic young man in his 30s (especially a thin, dark, angular one) is far more interesting to me as a hero than a teenaged boy!

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Howdy!

Date: 2007-07-25 10:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] walkingowl.livejournal.com
I'm not talkin' about HP & I didn't even read your post, above... I just wanted to say hi because you just sent me a reply to a reply to a post & now it's I who has only ten minutes before I have to log off. So, hi!

Re: Howdy!

Date: 2007-07-25 11:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
Okay! Hi!

I am wearing a BLUE SUN T-shirt today. I feel so fashionable! So Jayne-like!

Re: Howdy!

Date: 2007-07-26 10:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] walkingowl.livejournal.com
Jayne-like! Does this mean you'll soon be phoning up unsavory types in order to inquire about moving certain bits of extraneous merchandise?...say, certain items that have, after all, sat in the OLT prop-room doing nothing but gathering dust? hee

Re: Howdy!

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Ron & Hermione

Date: 2007-07-26 03:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] auriaephiala.livejournal.com
I don't see what she (JKR) sees in Ron, and why she would insist on Hermione ending up with him. There are lots of better/more talented boys/men introduced in the books -- Krum,for example! Besides what everyone else has said, Ron is just not a very interesting character.

OTOH, I don't see why Hermione couldn't have been extremely successful post-TDH. Textev is that she had two kids in 19 years. That leaves plenty of time for more training & a career, even with maternity leaves. I don't think Kingsley would leave that talented a witch alone -- he'll need every bit of trustworthy talent he could get.

Re: Ron & Hermione

Date: 2007-07-26 05:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
True points. I am still of the opinion that it would be nice to have more concrete knowledge of Harry's path in life, and Hermione's too. It isn't as if life at Hogwarts seemed to be geared to anyone's professional life.

I think, given the structure of the story as it stands, I would have preferred for Hermione and Harry to fall in love.

That aside, I'm tempted to say 'anyone would be better than Ron' because he comes out so badly as second best. I don't know what Hermione was supposed to have seen in Ron, either. Hormones? She didn't have much respect for his mind!

Date: 2007-07-26 10:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] walkingowl.livejournal.com
Well, I am now about halfway through the book, and I did peek at your list, above, as spoilers don't bother me, but only allow me to read the book wtih more appreciation (sorry, that sounds strange, but it's not a lie).

I was frustrated with how badly the narrative flow is developed. Why, in all those months of flitting from location to location with the tent, did Harry never tell the other two of his conversations with Viktor, Doge, and Auntie Muriel? I mean, good grief! They were desperate for all the data they could scrounge, and he never thought to pull these tidbits out of his pocket? Sorry, that strikes me as a misuse as obvious as Harry's never thinking of Sirius's magic mirror till the very end of Order of the Phoenix... as if this had been written with no re-write, no revision.

I almost suspect that JKR was writing it that way -- that long gap of months as the three elude capture -- just to give the movie something to cut out while not losing any of her action! ha. Maybe, but then again, maybe I'm reading too far into things... such as, the two or more scenes with Harry (or his duplicates) "stripping off," which harkens directly back to Daniel Radcliffe's role in Equus, in my opinion.

Or maybe I'm just generally grumpy today because I was awake until dawn reading it (just one more chapter! they're short!!) and now have lost half of my day off to sleeping in...! Plus, the realization that the other day I misspoke badly when discussing Snow Cake with you (again -- sorry... but it's what I am, and often I know I'd be better off just not talking at all, for all that shows me up as a total freak depending on circumstances).

And I totally agree with you about Ron. Waste of effort to write a character that shallow, sigh. Rupert Grint is so fun, however, that perhaps he can redeem a little bit of the character...?

Date: 2007-07-27 01:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
A love of spoilers doesn't sound strange to me - it's just something I don't usually share. In this case, I was reading spoilers before I read the book, anyway. Because I saw no reason not to. And I was curious.

Harry seems to have inherited from Dumbledore the tendency to be silent when sharing information would be a really, really sensible thing to do. Yes, it's obvious. And in my opinion, typical Rowling. If I think too much about her plots, they start to disintegrate.

Don't worry about your or my comments on Snow Cake. If I sounded testy, I apologize!

I don't even find Rupert Grint to be fun - I think Ron is a dead loss. Except for that one scene where he says he believes Harry about Voldemort.

Date: 2007-07-27 09:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] raissad.livejournal.com
JKR gives details that didn't make it into the epilogue. Harry, Hermione, and Ron all have jobs, as well as families:
http://video.the-leaky-cauldron.org/video/813

Date: 2007-07-28 01:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
It's good to hear that - and I do wish it'd made it into the book, but no big deal. At least we know, now.

Date: 2007-07-31 05:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] duncanmac.livejournal.com
I finally finished the book on Monday (yesterday).

I too was disappointed that the book dragged during its middle parts. And yes, I can see that the (thoroughly traditional) rendering of "... lived happily every after" in its epilogue would push some buttons, especially among feminists. [I think that anyone who believes that women deserve a role in life way beyond the notorious "church, children, kitchen" trio is a feminist. I am unsure that Rowling would fit into that category, based on these books alone.]

I too felt that Hermione should not have fallen for Ron. She is much more perceptive than he is -- though that "inability of perception" is true for a great many men.

While I was glad to see at least some redemption for Snape, I felt really unhappy that it had to be via Snape's own memories. I am all too aware of how unreliable human memory can be (and there's an understatement).

The duel between Molly Weasley and Bellatrix Lestrange at the end of the book was very good. It puts me in mind of Cordelia's "shopping expedition" (bringing back Vordarian's head) during Lois Bujold's book _Barrayar_.

Date: 2007-07-31 01:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
think that anyone who believes that women deserve a role in life way beyond the notorious "church, children, kitchen" trio is a feminist. I am unsure that Rowling would fit into that category, based on these books alone.

Interesting point. She does have some interesting female characters, both good and bad, but not with the range of her male characters, who are by far in the majority. And there are a lot of throwaway female characters, especially the ones for whom Harry feels a romantic attachment, Cho and Ginny. I wonder why.

Good point about Snape's memories, too. I think we are supposed to take him as a reliable narrator in this case, but it would have been better to get the information otherwise.

Yes, Molly Weasley was surprisingly good there!

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