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As fans we have many theories about Captain Jack Harkness and what makes him tick. We don't always agree (since when does that happen in fandom? never!) but there's a fair consensus about the main points, about his timeline as we know it. We don't know as much as Jack knows, though in at least one regard, we know more about him than he does himself - how and why he rose from the dead on Satellite Five.

But the Torchwood team don't know what we know. I keep wondering what they think. As series one progresses, each of them learns more about Jack. We don't know how much they compare notes about him - we know Gwen doesn't tell the others about his immortality, though by "Cyberwoman" they've all seen evidence of it.

My question is: what do they believe?

Things they see or hear with their own eyes, which indicate something unusual about Jack:

  1. In various episodes and at various times, he uses alien tech and scans for alien tech, like his wristband, or Gwen's gun (mentioned in Another Life), or the scanning device we see in "Day One". Obviously sometimes it is clear that the alien tech comes through the rift, but his wristband did not.


  2. All the Torchwood team knows that Jack Harkness doesn't exist in any official records.


  3. I general terms, and after having speculated about Jack's sexual orientation and his love life, they know he is unusually experienced ("Work your way through my back catalogue, we'll be here till the sun explodes"), though they don't know details and it is unclear how many of his comments they believe. Jack makes it clear he doesn't like 'categories'. Ianto, who eventually gets some up-close-personal experience of Jack's sexuality, makes no comment on it.


  4. I various episodes and at various times, Jack shows knowledge of alien devices that is really phenomenal. He can repair an unfamiliar interstellar teleportation device well enough to use it effectively (in "Greeks Bearing Gifts"), he is building his own 'rift machine' (which they know about) and a TARDIS (which they probably don't)./li>

  5. In various episodes and at various times, Jack shows knowledge of alien species, e.g., the boring, watery ones in "Cyberwoman".


  6. In various episodes and at various times, Jack shows knowledge of the future - saying that the 21st century is where everything changes, or that "this wasn't supposed to happen" (in "End of Days").


  7. In "Everything Changes" - Gwen, Suzie, Owen and Tosh hear Jack say, "Love this planet. Still, at least I won't get pregnant. I'm never doing that again."


  8. In "Everything Changes" - Gwen and Suzie see Jack, when shot in the head, recover from death.


  9. In "Day One", everyone except Ianto sees Jack's kiss make a woman possessed by the sex alien glow with golden light and recover from near-death.


  10. In "Day One", they know that an severed hand in a jar is important enough to Jack to let an alien killer escape because of it. Do they know the hand belonged to an alien? Possibly. Do they know which alien? Probably not, but I don't see any evidence there, either way. The hand is not labelled.


  11. In "Cyberwoman", everyone except Ianto sees Jack killed twice by the touch of the Cyberwoman. (I think it's likely that Ianto would have been told about this afterwards.)


  12. In "Cyberwoman", only Ianto knows that Jack revived him from death or near-death with a kiss (though it is unclear how much Ianto understands about what is happening).


  13. In "Small Worlds", Gwen guesses that Jack was Estelle's lover in the 1944 picture, and he confirms it.


  14. In "Countrycide", Jack is in an expansive mood. He says, "No other race in the universe goes camping," and (in the matter of snogging), "Are we including non-human life-forms?"


  15. In "Greeks Bearing Gifts", Toshiko learns that Jack's is the only mind she can't read, with the pendant, though he can speak to her telepathically.


  16. In "Captain Jack Harkness", Toshiko guesses that Jack has been to the 1940s before; he tells her that he was a con man, and that "Captain Jack Harkness" was not his real name.

Am I missing other bits of evidence? I am skipping his two references to "the right kind of doctor" on the grounds that Gwen has no way of understanding what he's talking about.

So what do they make of it all? Torchwood emphasizes the immortality aspect, but not Jack's time travel. Words like "Time Agent" and "51st century" are never spoken. I would expect them to suspect that Jack himself might be an alien - after all, they are dealing with aliens on a regular basis - but no one mentions the possibility, possibly because he seems so human in all matters except the immortality and invulnerability. (I just read that sentence over. That sounds like a big exception.)

No one ever challenges him on his implied knowledge of the future, though Owen challenges him on his identity in "End of Days" (and gets fired for it), and Toshiko asks him who he used to be in "Captain Jack Harkness" (and gets no answer).

So what do you think they think? Do you think any of them suspect him of being from the future? or of having travelled in time? If they all felt he was simply a con man full of lies and tall stories, it's unlikely they'd have the life-and-death kind of respect for him that they do. Clearly he knows more about aliens than anyone else on Earth - do any of them suspect that he's been off-planet?


Date: 2007-03-01 04:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] crabby-lioness.livejournal.com
I'm writing a fic about that now.

Date: 2007-03-01 04:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
Wonderful! I look forward to it. I was wondering why fans haven't been dealing with this in fic - but I haven't used my speculation in fic either, except in passing. I find it a very intriguing question.

Date: 2007-03-01 04:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] crabby-lioness.livejournal.com
Here's Part 1. It's getting a wee bit longish. http://crabby-lioness.livejournal.com/9753.html

Date: 2007-03-01 04:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
Oooh - ! I'll be able to read it tonight. Probably.

Date: 2007-03-01 04:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rivier.livejournal.com
Interesting!

Can we cite Hub website ephemera as sufficiently canon in thinking about this, do you think? I'm thinking, for example, of some of the IM conversations - the post-"Captain Jack Harkness" one between Tosh and Ianto is fairly detailed about what she discovers about Jack (though Ianto's reactions, as ever, don't really give away how much of that is news to him).

Date: 2007-03-01 05:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
Can we cite Hub website ephemera as sufficiently canon in thinking about this, do you think?

Yes, I would think so. If/when it contradicts something in the show, I'd give the show precedence, but the website is fun for filling in the cracks and I'm willing to call it canon. Ditto with the novels.

the post-"Captain Jack Harkness" one between Tosh and Ianto is fairly detailed about what she discovers about Jack

I don't think I've seen that one. There's the one where Tosh and Gwen are worrying about Jack's broken heart being set up - where's the one between Tosh and Ianto?

Date: 2007-03-01 06:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rivier.livejournal.com
Annoyingly, it's one of the IMs that isn't there on the lo-fi Hub pages. On the impossible-to-navigate wriggly Hub pages, it is, I think in Case File 12, then in Jack's file, then in the Toshiko file that comes up there. Which means, I guess, that it's supposed to be a conversation taking place between 1.12 and 1.13.

But here it is transcribed anyway - more stuff to make the head explode, I fear...



TOSHIKO: Ianto! Ianto!

IANTO: Toshiko. Hello.

TOSHIKO: Hey - there's stuff I've learned about Jack. Amazing stuff. I'm trying to work out if I should tell the others.

IANTO: Really?

TOSHIKO: And you're always a good sounding board

IANTO: Okay.

TOSHIKO: Well, I've long suspected that he's not normal, and it's true - he can't die!

IANTO: What?

TOSHIKO: He told me so himself. He's immortal, as far as he knows.

IANTO: What does that make him?

TOSHIKO: Still human, I guess. I scanned him when we got back, quietly, and he seems completely human.

IANTO: And do you trust him?

TOSHIKO: Yes, more than ever. Although...

TOSHIKO: Amazing Fact Number 2: his name's not Captain Jack Harkness.

IANTO: What?

TOSHIKO: We met the real Captain Jack.

TOSHIKO: He died the day after we were there, and Jack took his identity.

IANTO: So, he's been living under that name for 60 years?

TOSHIKO: Maybe - that doesn't seem right.

TOSHIKO: Mind you... A lot of it doesn't seem right.

TOSHIKO: Bilis was getting us to open the Rift. And the other Jack was there as a distraction - to keep Jack occupied while you...

IANTO: While I shot Owen.

TOSHIKO: Yeah. He seems pretty cool about that.

IANTO: You think?

TOSHIKO: Anyway - that's not the most amazing thing. Ianto - remember the sweepstake? Well it turns out that Jack and Jack got on really well. It's true. Jack's gay!

TOSHIKO: What do you think of that?

[IANTO is typing a message]

[Conversation Ends]

Date: 2007-03-01 07:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] walkingowl.livejournal.com
TOSHIKO: Anyway - that's not the most amazing thing. Ianto - remember the sweepstake? Well it turns out that Jack and Jack got on really well. It's true. Jack's gay!

TOSHIKO: What do you think of that?

[IANTO is typing a message]


Hi! Here's a tiny handful of sand thrown into the wheels of that incredibly nifty IM post ;-] ... because I recall a very open conversation that took place while all the staff sat around a table eating Chinese take-out, in which Owen says rather "old news"-ly that Jack is totally gay. Or do I recall wrong?

Still a delightful passage you found, there.

Date: 2007-03-01 07:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rivier.livejournal.com
::laughs:: Not to un-sand your sand, but the conversation you recall - from the second ep - is one where the whole team speculates, inconclusively, about Jack in general (who and what he is), and his sexuality in particular.

So, when Owen says that they don't know anything about him - "Not who he is, not where he's from, nothing. Except... him being gay," there's no consensus from the others:

GWEN: No he's not! Really... do you think...? No!

TOSH: Owen does. And I don't.

IANTO: And I don't care.

And then they all go on to debate whether period military is the dress code of a straight man or not, and whether they really know anything about him, even if he's American or not, though Tosh does claim that she's "seen him in action" and that "he'll shag anything if it's gorgeous enough!"

I tend to think, though, that they're all still more or less clueless about whether Jack bats for one side or both - apart from Ianto who, at some point, does seem to have found himself firmly on the empirical end of the debate.

Date: 2007-03-01 07:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
Tosh does claim that she's "seen him in action"

I wonder what she saw, and what he was doing, and with whom, and where. And whether there is fanfic in that somewhere.

apart from Ianto who, at some point, does seem to have found himself firmly on the empirical end of the debate.

Well said! At least Ianto has ruled out the possibility that Jack could be totally straight.

Date: 2007-03-02 08:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] darthhellokitty.livejournal.com
I wonder what she saw, and what he was doing, and with whom, and where.

And if the CCTV was involved.

Date: 2007-03-02 01:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
Such a lovely subject for speculation!

Date: 2007-03-01 07:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
Yes, I think this passage is brilliant.

The conversation you're thinking of is in "Day One" and they don't agree on anything. Owen thinks Jack is gay, Gwen thinks he's straight, Tosh thinks he's bi and Ianto says he doesn't care. So this IM conversation is a follow-up (that's why Toshiko mentions 'sweepstakes'), because Tosh thinks she has discovered the true answer. What, haven't they been listening to what he said about categories?

Listening but not understanding, perhaps.

At this point my heart bleeds for Ianto.

Date: 2007-03-04 05:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] walkingowl.livejournal.com
At this point my heart bleeds for Ianto.

That's what I was feeling, throughout a good deal of the second half of End of Days (and I just got the bookends image: wasn't one of the first episodes called Day One?)

Anyway... Ianto. Torn between his deep, shattered love for Lisa, who is gone forever as she used to be, and his awareness of his joining in the betrayal of Jack, and then -- as if all that were not already enough for the poor lad! -- to have to know that it was not he, but Gwen, who could bring Jack back to life. He now speaks volumes with every silent glance and expression, every twitch of averted gaze.

Date: 2007-03-05 03:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
I just got the bookends image: wasn't one of the first episodes called Day One?

Yes. I wonder how/when they planned that symmetry?

He now speaks volumes with every silent glance and expression, every twitch of averted gaze.

And the general sense that he doesn't know where he stands with Jack, or what to expect.

Date: 2007-03-06 03:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] walkingowl.livejournal.com
I just got the bookends image: wasn't one of the first episodes called Day One?
Yes. I wonder how/when they planned that symmetry?


Maybe about the same time they had the thoughts about Gwynneth/Gwen...? Excellent planning, or just excellent serendipity -- either way, it's wonderful fun.

He now speaks volumes with every silent glance and expression, every twitch of averted gaze.
And the general sense that he doesn't know where he stands with Jack, or what to expect.


Hm. What do you think of the idea that Ianto has never had a man for a lover before this, and that he is experiencing the jitters of getting his mind adjusted to it? Ha! that, on top of having to deal with the idea of his lover almost dying, then actually dying, then coming back to life, meanwhile the world almost ends because he did or didn't take this or that crucial action, or take it fast enough...? Could get to a fellow!

Date: 2007-03-06 04:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
What do you think of the idea that Ianto has never had a man for a lover before this,

I'd be willing to bet that the only lover Ianto had before this was Lisa. And yes, he might well be less than confident about it. This might be reflected in the way he seems to want and expect his affair with Jack to remain a secret - i.e., he doesn't tell anyone, and when Jack is believed dead (both times) he pretty much keeps his personal sorrow to himself.

that, on top of having to deal with the idea of his lover almost dying, then actually dying, then coming back to life

Definitely confusing!

Date: 2007-03-01 07:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
Annoyingly, it's one of the IMs that isn't there on the lo-fi Hub pages.

That would explain why I hadn't found it! I have a lot of trouble with those dramatic-but-difficult hi-tech pages. Ooh, they are so sneaky. Thank you so much for the transcription. This is an interesting one.

TOSHIKO: ... I'm trying to work out if I should tell the others.

This would imply, as I suspected, that they don't always tell each other what they learn about Jack. And the whole conversation confirms what we were led to believe, that none of the others knew about the sexual relationship between Ianto and Jack.

It also implies, which I like, that Toshiko trusts Ianto.

I've long suspected that he's not normal, and it's true - he can't die!

I wonder what her suspicions consisted of, and what triggered them. The "Cyberwoman" scene, perhaps, where he got up after being zapped. Maybe just observing how quickly he healed from injuries in general.

IANTO: What?

I love the way Tosh is dropping one bombshell after another on poor Ianto, and he thought he knew Jack so well. Immortality, assumed name, and then - the real shocker from Ianto's point of view - the 'thing' with real!Jack....

Aaaah poor Ianto.

But you know, this might explain a little of Ianto's confusion and distress in "End of Days", and contribute to his motivation for betraying Jack in the matter of the rift.

More food for thought. I love it.



Date: 2007-03-01 07:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rivier.livejournal.com
It is interesting, isn't it! And I read it a while back, but it wasn't until I transcribed it that Tosh's point struck me, about Bilis possibly even setting up Jack with the real Jack as a distraction - in the same way that he goes on to use the visions of the loved and lost ones in End of Days to play the rest of the team. Gwen asks Jack right at the end if there would have been anyone who could have tempted him to open the Rift - but maybe Jack did get tempted and failed the test too, in that his attraction to the 1941 Captain Harkness took his attention away from why the time-slip happened, and whether Tosh would manage to get her message sent through time?

I think Ianto's responses in that IM are ambiguous. Either he's shocked over and over and treading water, or some if not all of it isn't actually news to him. For certain, he isn't going to be surpirsed by Tosh's biggest revelation - that Jack really is gay (though I'd say bisexual until proven otherwise!), though the bit about a(nother) romantic interest is probably news to him. Cunningly, TPTB seem to have left it open as to how far Ianto has either been taken into Jack's confidence, or has sussed out things like his immortality or his false identity. There's a reference in one of the books - and I can't remember where or which, sorry! - but at the time, it did suggest that Ianto's seen Jack's signature on some very, very old records in the archives at the Hub.

I'll have to see if I can find it now. Drat!

Date: 2007-03-01 08:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
it wasn't until I transcribed it that Tosh's point struck me, about Bilis possibly even setting up Jack with the real Jack as a distraction -

Which shows an amazing amount of insight into Jack - but it's plausible, too. Short of producing the Doctor on short notice, Bilis threw our Jack into the path of the one man in time and space most likely to throw him into distraut distraction and preoccupation. It implies that Bilis knew - knows - details of Jack's life and activities, and presumably not by psychic prying, to which Jack seems to be impervious.

maybe Jack did get tempted and failed the test too, in that his attraction to the 1941 Captain Harkness took his attention away from why the time-slip happened, and whether Tosh would manage to get her message sent through time?

Well, if he had not failed that test, he would have been either heartless or superhuman or both. Or he would have been another person, entirely, not the Captain Jack Harkness we know.

Either he's shocked over and over and treading water, or some if not all of it isn't actually news to him

And he's not about to reveal this to Tosh.

that Jack really is gay (though I'd say bisexual until proven otherwise!)

Well, yes. Though it seems Barrowman and Davies and the BBC would say 'omnisexual' and I think Jack himself would just say 'sexual'.

though the bit about a(nother) romantic interest is probably news to him.

I don't think it's likely that Jack - preoccupied with his grief and love for Jack - would have immediately nabbed Ianto to tell him how he'd just fallen for a man who died in 1941. And yes, Tosh tells him here, and this is a shock for Ianto - which is why I think Ianto disengages from the conversation.

It also is the first thing that explains to me why Ianto's love and loyalty towards Jack is undermined in "End of Days", and he helps Gwen and Owen to open the Rift.

There's a reference in one of the books - and I can't remember where or which, sorry! - but at the time, it did suggest that Ianto's seen Jack's signature on some very, very old records in the archives at the Hub.

It isn't Another Life, which I've read, so you can rule that one out. I'll no doubt find it as I read the other books. Interesting hint. Without that, I'd have said the circumstantial evidence implies that Ianto didn't know much about the immortality/longevity (not that I think we know much about it, either). With that... well, Ianto is clever, very clever, and I suspect he knows more than Jack has told him.

So he must know (as Tosh says) that there's something about Jack that isn't 'normal' but I'm not sure how much he could have accurately guessed.


I suspect Jack hasn't told him much about himself. But that's not something I can prove, and I don't see much evidence at all, either way.

Date: 2007-03-01 06:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sizequeen.livejournal.com
I wonder if the coat Jack wears counts as a clue. I mean, the style of that coat is way too old to be merelr "retro."

Date: 2007-03-01 07:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
It's clearly more than just a random style choice. It's a statement. But the statement itself is open to interpretation and reinterpretation.

Date: 2007-03-06 03:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] walkingowl.livejournal.com
Something lovely just hit me the last time viewing "Captain Jack Harkness": Finding themselves in the 1941 dance, our Jack's first reaction was to cry, "It's beautiful!" as his eyes roamed everywhere, taking in every luscious detail of a world that he clearly is deeply fond of... and then, when it comes out that they are stuck there, he instantly goes into his "Captain Jack Harkness, 133 Squadron, American volunteer" persona. With no breath of hesitation. It is as if that reality is, to his mind, more familiar and comfortable to him than perhaps any other. Even when he has the shoving match with George over George's rudeness, he stays in character... no officer would punch an enlisted man, or a junior officer: Jack only shoves George, admittedly pushing him all the way to the floor, after George punches Jack.

His attire, I am thnking, is his way of holding onto this much-loved time of his life. He is, after all, already so nearly wearing the attire of a captain pilot that he does not get any questions from anyone but Bilis -- all that he needed to fully take on that role again was the environment, and his own self-confident presence in the moment.

This said, I also have a thought about "the worst creatures you could imagine," those who captured him and his young friend during their first foray into being soldiers. I think it was not Daleks or aliens or creatures we can barely visualize... no, I think it was people. His own race. Just people, who because of the war came to demonize their enemy to the point that they could treat these two boys with such horrible cruelty, as they no longer saw them as equal people but merely as The Enemy.

Just a thought.

Date: 2007-03-06 04:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
Finding themselves in the 1941 dance, our Jack's first reaction was to cry, "It's beautiful!" as his eyes roamed everywhere, taking in every luscious detail of a world that he clearly is deeply fond of...

Not to mention his happy and spontaneous smile. He doesn't smile like that so much in Torchwood. It was good to see.

It is as if that reality is, to his mind, more familiar and comfortable to him than perhaps any other.

It certainly seems that way. We have three separate links between Jack and the UK in the early 1940s: the scenes in "Captain Jack Harkness", his relationship with Estelle in 1943, and his meeting with the Doctor and Rose in 1941. Other times and places - say, Lahore in 1909 - don't seem to have made such an impression.

His attire, I am thnking, is his way of holding onto this much-loved time of his life.

Such a nice thought. The clothes, and the setting, do suit him. One wonders how many factors go into creating this - what his motivation is, in fact. Romantic that I am, I like to think it has something to do with that being when he met the Doctor, but it could be any number of things.

I think it was people. His own race.

It certainly could be. There are numerous nice ironies there, and I love the unclarity of it. The horror is very clear, so we can imagine whatever specific details we wish.


Slightly Off...

Date: 2007-03-01 06:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] walkingowl.livejournal.com
Much crisps for thought, there. As I chew contentedly, let me instead go back to kisses....

Possible parallel: as hand-holding is in Doctor Who, is kissing ("snogging," if you insist) in Torchwood? That is, a visual/physical metaphor for...?

Sorry, I'm not being clear. Let me try again.

(First of all, that idea might make the "who was your last snog" scene in Countrycide into a summercamp conversation about who have you done it with, and when and where!)

I am thinking about how Gwen could sit by Jack, in End of Days, for hours on end and only after she had kissed him and said goodbye did he (immediately, it appeared, and with great satisfaction) come back to life and awareness. Does Gwen have some power held over from when the resurrection glove made her the ongoing conduit feeding her life-force into Suzie? Or does her body/energy merely now retain the memory of how that went, and that little kiss sent just enough ... caring? direct contact? ... into Jack from someone he cared about that it brought him back? I again am wondering how all four of them, as much as they clearly valued Jack, could not together bring him back with the simple reality of their wishes and caring, but Gwen could, with one small kiss. I think that kiss functioned as the point of focus for the emotional energy, how does that sound?

Carry on! I have a story to write comments on, or someone won't cook me supper tonight ;-]

Re: Slightly Off...

Date: 2007-03-01 07:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
Kissing metaphors: well, Jack refers directly to kissing as a partial transfer of life-force in "Day One", because he has plenty to spare. It fits also with the moment in "Cyberwoman" in which he kissed Ianto, after Ianto had been thrown across the room by the Cyberwoman and had been lying face-down in water for a good few minutes.

Metaphorically, in Doctor Who, the code-word for sex is 'dancing'. There's certainly a 'dancing' theme in Torchwood too, but it seems to be more of a metaphor for love - Ianto dances with Diane when he falls in love with her, Jack dances with Jack at the Ritz... Do we see Gwen dancing with Rhys? Hmm, no. Or Owen. In this context, yes, I think dance=love rather than dance=sex, as was implied in Doctor Who.

And hand-holding... Hmm. There's a fair amount of comfort hand-holding - doesn't Jack take Tosh's hand at the end of "Greeks Bearing Gifts", and then she takes his hand when he is upset over Jack at the Ritz? Nice images... but not metaphorical.

Does Gwen have some power held over from when the resurrection glove made her the ongoing conduit feeding her life-force into Suzie?

Interesting thought. I hadn't thought of that. Possible.

Maybe her body energy has already been unusual. Remember her resemblance to Gwynneth, who clearly had energy-conduit powers... At least, you can remember that if you've seen the Doctor Who episode "The Unquiet Dead", not if you haven't! Nobody knows what Gwen's resemblance to Gwynneth means but it might mean something. Or not.

I again am wondering how all four of them, as much as they clearly valued Jack, could not together bring him back with the simple reality of their wishes and caring, but Gwen could, with one small kiss.

I wonder what would have happened if Ianto had kissed him. Nothing, I think. I think it had to be Gwen. But I'm not sure why. Equally I don't think a kiss from Owen or Tosh would have done it.

I think that kiss functioned as the point of focus for the emotional energy, how does that sound?

Sounds good to me! But I do think there is/was something about Gwen's specific emotional energy that made it work.


Re: Slightly Off...

Date: 2007-03-01 09:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] darthhellokitty.livejournal.com
Another idea: Jack had actually just then booted back up, and Gwen unconsciously detected it (sounds? movements?) and kissed him.

Re: Slightly Off...

Date: 2007-03-01 11:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
So it's a matter of timing - I like that theory.

Re: Slightly Off...

Date: 2007-03-02 08:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] darthhellokitty.livejournal.com
And whoever was sitting there at the time might have done the same. OK, not WHOEVER; probably not Owen.

Re: Slightly Off...

Date: 2007-03-02 01:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
I think they would have had to go through the forgiveness process first. Not so much because Owen's kiss wouldn't have worked, as because Owen would have been to scared to kiss him in the first place.

Re: Slightly Off...

Date: 2007-03-02 07:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] darthhellokitty.livejournal.com
That's what I meant - of the four non-Jack team members, Owen is the one I can't imagine doing that. Actually he might be best at detecting subtle signs of life, but I think his impulse would more likely be to check for a pulse.

Re: Slightly Off...

Date: 2007-03-05 03:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
A pulse (or lack thereof) might be misleading when it comes to Jack. I think Jack is something quite outside Owen's experience, but I don't know how much Owen understands this yet.

Re: Slightly Off...

Date: 2007-03-01 07:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
I have a story to write comments on, or someone won't cook me supper tonight

Hmm, I never thought of blackmailing you for comments. As long as I get 'em!

Date: 2007-03-01 10:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] drkcherry.livejournal.com
I just had to come into your LJ and tell you what an absolutely GORGEOUS header you have.

That is all...

Date: 2007-03-01 11:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
It is, isn't it? Designed by [livejournal.com profile] isagel. I thank her in my mind every time I look at it.

Date: 2007-03-01 11:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] drkcherry.livejournal.com
I just joined his official Yahoo Group. When I was approved there was a pic of him attached to it with a message that said he now had to frisk me.

Um...ok.

Date: 2007-03-01 11:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
Now, doesn't that conjure up a nice image?

That might be a fun beginning for a PWP...

Date: 2007-03-02 02:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] puritybrown.livejournal.com
(here via torchwood_three) Interesting topic -- though I would point out, in relation to item 4, that the website indicates that the rift machine has been a Torchwood project since the early 20th century -- see this memo (http://www.torchwood.org.uk/html/endofdays/memo.shtml) dated April 1913. I don't think there's any evidence that Jack was with Torchwood that early, although it's certainly possible.

I got the impression from the show that the rift manipulator had been gathering dust for decades, nobody being willing to use it since no suitable emergency had presented itself.

In general, I suspect the Torchwood crew think of Jack as being from the past more than the future -- between the clothes, his affinity with the "lost in time" people, and his general air of been-there-done-that omniscience. If they speculate about why he is the way he is, my guess would be that their theories centre on him being the result of some weird anti-ageing experiment.

Date: 2007-03-02 03:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fajrdrako.livejournal.com
Thanks for pointing me towards the 1913 memo - okay, I'll postulate that JAck added his own technological advances to a project already under way. I don't think Jack has been with Torchwood since 1913, though I am ready to change my mind if I get evidence of it. Obviously he has done a lot of popping back and forth in time and it isn't impossible that he just dropped in at various times.

I suspect the Torchwood crew think of Jack as being from the past more than the future --

Yes, I think so too.

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