Doctor Who: Oh, dear...

[fajrdrako]

The latest news from BBC about season 4 is very disappointing to me.

Ah well. I couldn't expect my honeymoon with Doctor Who to last forever, could I?

Comments

[acampbell.livejournal.com]

Is she the one that someone described over on TWOP as being worse than Lana Lang?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Is she the one that someone described over on TWOP as being worse than Lana Lang?

LOL! I have no idea. She doesn't strike me as being the least bit like Lana Lang, thank goodness ... maybe more like Lois Lane in her more shrewish and thoughtless moments. She's played by a rather shrill comedian, whose specialty is being a bratty and contrary teenager. A lot of that bleeds through to the character of Donna, though Donna isn't a teenager. She's a ditz with an attitude. She didn't want to travel with the Doctor - had no interest in time/space travel at all, and thought the whole adventure she had with him was a nuisance - so I wonder why she'd change her mind.

Some of her dialogue was very funny - I loved it that she kept calling the Doctor a Martian, and the poor guy would mutter, "I'm not from Mars." It was actually a rather comedic lead-in to a very dramatic moment later in the episode where the Doctor said the name of his planet for the first time in the new series.

But I was very glad to see the last of Donna at the end of that episode, and it's depressing to think I'll have to put up with her on a regular basis. Yes, I'll certainly give her the benefit of the doubt and give the series a try, but it doesn't make me look forward to series 4 the way I would like to be able to do.

[kikibug13.livejournal.com]

Hmm. Do you think they might be trying to tone down the hype or something?

BTW, there're gorgeous photos of DT in a red velvet suit (*cue me melting*) from the Harry Potter premiere (04nbod has most), and some beauties of TW filming on barrowmanfans - if you haven't seen those, well, they might atone for the news. Short term, I mean ;)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the links to pretty pictures to cheer me up!

[auriaephiala.livejournal.com]

Aaargh! The antithesis of Martha, and (as far as I could see) likely to be written as a total pain in the ass. Even Dr. Who redemption only goes so far.

Why???

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

The antithesis of Martha

Yes. I would be happy with Martha forever!

likely to be written as a total pain in the ass.

She was rather fun in "The Runaway Bride", but grating on my nerves a little by the end. All her reactions were wrong. The "pain in the ass" factor seems inevitable.

Why???

I would guess, because Catherine Tate is popular in the UK. At least, I assume she is. She seems to have a high profile.

I think they wanted a contrast with Rose and with Martha. Unfortunately.

[teaphile.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I didn't dislike Donna, but I was kind of hoping he'd pick someone up from the past rather than our present, just to shake it up a bit.

[silverwhistle.livejournal.com]

An alien would be good. He's had non-Earth companions before.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I'd prefer someone from the past, too.

I didn't actually dislike Donna, really, either, but I didn't want to see her again.

[benbenberi.livejournal.com]

It's not the news I would have hoped for. The bits of her comedy I've seen are not at all to my liking, and although I didn't absolutely hate her in The Runaway Bride I can't say I wanted to spend more time with her.

Still, one hopes for the best. She was rather an overbearing presence at Xmas, but if we're lucky they'll tone her down a little without losing the things I liked about the character, i.e. that she's ballsy and self-assertive and unimpressed with the Doctor's Doctorishness. After 3 seasons of being adored by his companions it's time he had to deal with someone a bit more prickly and emotionally independent, who is not only willing to call him on his bullshit (which Martha did for a while) but tell him flat out when he's going too far. Our Doctor's not in a very good place right now, and if they write Donna well she could be what he needs to get his balance back.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

The bits of her comedy I've seen are not at all to my liking

I've only seen one clip of her comedy, that bit she did with David Tennant as a teacher. I thought he was very funny - and she was difficult to understand. Her humour seems to be based on an annoyance factor.

I liked Donna's dialogue in "The Runaway Bride". She was actually sort of fun in many ways - but enough was enough and I was glad at the end that I woudn't (I thought) have to see more of her. You're right, if they get the writing down and play her right, she could be a wonderful contrast to Rose and Martha, a companion with no sense of wonder and not much respect, let alone eager adortion.

Our Doctor's not in a very good place right now, and if they write Donna well she could be what he needs to get his balance back.

That's the most encouraging thought I've heard yet about the situation. I like that idea. Thank you for offering me hope!

[lilithlotr.livejournal.com]

I've always liked her, so I'm hoping for the best. 13 episodes seems like way too many, though.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

13 episodes seems like way too many, though

You say that - and you liked her?

Heh.

I'm hoping for the best, too. If she has good dialogue, and plays down the ditziness, she might be fun.

I just... don't have a lot of faith that they'll get it right.

[wijsgeer.livejournal.com]

*grumble* *grumble* she is not by any way the companion I would pick. She was more or less OK in the Christmas special, considering it seemed to be setup as a relatively humorous interlude. But that character, as it was, I cannot see as a permanent companion. The character will have to do an enormous amount of growing to do and I don't know Catherine Tate well enough to say if I think she is capable of showing that.
Apart from that, I find her considerably less attractive than Rose and Martha, but than again, many people on this world are. Lets just hope the team writes a set of episodes that play up to the strengths without making it in some kind of comedy series.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

*grumble* *grumble* she is not by any way the companion I would pick.

No. Her amusement factor treads that thin line between "really funny" and "really annoying" and I found a little bit went a long way - the length of "The Runaway Bride" was just about right.

I loved Martha. I came to love Rose. I can't imagine loving Donna. But they've surprised me before.

The thing is: if we're supposed to identify with the companions - I can't imagine myself identifying with Donna Noble! And I fear the show will veer over too far into the realm of comedy. I love the comedy in Doctor Who as it stands, but mostly because it give such a wonderful variance of tone between the comic and the serious, or even the comic and the tragic. I find it hard to imagine taking Donna Noble seriously, and part of my pleasure in Doctor Who has been that it makes the unreal seem real to me, and meaningful.

"Some kind of comedy series" is exactly what I don't want.

[silverwhistle.livejournal.com]

We'll see. But Doctor Who has survived having annoying companions before (Jamie, Adric (much-detested!), Mel, Peri), and some that were just plain dull (Tegan, of whom I recall nothing memorable whatsoever).

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I'm sure the show will thrive. And maybe I'll like it more than I think I will - a lot depends on the stories and the writing. Maybe Donna will be more sympathetic and palatable than I expect her to be. It's just that... with hundreds of English actors who could become the Doctor's companion, and whose announcement would fill me with anticipation or at least curiosity, my reaction here was, "Oh, no! Not Donna again!"

[imaginarytiff.livejournal.com]

That was my reaction, too. I loved Runaway Bride as a one-shot story, but an entire season of Donna seems... horrifying.

So far the response I've seen has been evenly divided between lovers and haters of the idea, which kind of surprises me. I expected mass hysteria and outrage, but apparently Tate has a lot of supporters.

For now I'm hanging on to my faith that TPTB know what they're doing, until I actually see otherwise, but they're REALLY going to have to work for it this time.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I loved Runaway Bride as a one-shot story, but an entire season of Donna seems... horrifying.

Exactly! In storytelling terms, she was fun in the short term, but it seemed to me that a little went a long way!

apparently Tate has a lot of supporters

So it seems! How odd.

I hope your faith is justified.

[raissad.livejournal.com]

I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. After all, it depends on what arc they give her. Plus, Donna mellowed toward the end and seemed to learn some life lessons. Maybe, she "walked on the sand" a bit since we last saw her.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

You think she mellowed in "The Runaway Bride"? I thought she was worse at the end than the beginning!

But... okay, I'll let them convince me. I just don't see how Donna Noble could be a character I could take seriously.

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

I can't stand Catherine bloody Tate. All I've ever seen her do is bolshy, agressive, strident and ignorant characters who I would gladly cross the galaxy to avoid.

I really, really hope that (a) they manage to tone her down and (b) they use the fact that Donna is so contrary usefully. but it will take some damn good writing and I'm not convinced she's good enough at acting to pull it off.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

All I've ever seen her do is bolshy, agressive, strident and ignorant characters who I would gladly cross the galaxy to avoid.

That was pretty much my impression. I certain got that impression of Donna - opinionated and shallow and self-serving. At best.

I really, really hope that (a) they manage to tone her down

What would be left? No, no, I don't want to prejudge, especially when I don't know what they have in mind, but it's easy to fear it will be the Tennant and Tate Comedy Hour, with the two of them doing a lot of shrieking every episode.

they use the fact that Donna is so contrary usefully

Theoretically possible. Dare we hope?

it will take some damn good writing and I'm not convinced she's good enough at acting to pull it off.

I agree.

[femme-slash-fan.livejournal.com]

I wish they'd just given him another tin dog.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Yes! What a wonderful thought!

I wouldn't mind a return of Sarah Jane, either, come to think of it.

More Thoughts On Donna

[raissad.livejournal.com]

We have to remember that RTD & Co. arc and thread the series. I think CT's arc will be important in relation to the previous two seasons companion themes.

S2 -- Rose is contrasted with SJS. They are both companions whom the Doctor had to leave behind.

S3 -- Donna, Joan, and Martha all have one thing in common. They say no, and walk away.

That leaves one companion archetype from the Classic series yet to cover...

S4 -- Donna could be the companion who dies. What better way to deal with the death of a companion than by having her be someone we already know going in, somebody who knows the drill and has been given new reasons to face what's there and make the sacrifice. IF RTD is going that route, Donna makes more sense than Martha. After everything Martha's been through, it would be a really bad move for her to be killed off.

Plus, there's the DT leaving issue. IF he is leaving at the end of S4, RTD would want all past and present companions (save Rose) to be physically present to say goodbye. That means finding a logical way to include Donna, as we know RTD regards her as a companion. Kylie's guest character probably won't count for RTD's purposes, because of some Titanic-related temporal issue. Plus, if he kills Kylie's character, it would reinforce the theme throughout S4.

Re: More Thoughts On Donna

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Interesting points, all of them! And very plausible. This being said, I'm not sure RTD's thinking processes can be predicted - he's good at finding angles I don't anticipate.

One thing that has been consistent is that he doesn't like to do the same thing twice. So how will the Doctor come to regenerate next time - ? I have no good theories - in fact, I don't much like speculating on it - but that will probaby flavour whatever happens.

CBC Posting DW S3 On-Line

[raissad.livejournal.com]

The Doctor Who Blog is reporting that they have been informed by sources inside the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation that the broadcaster will be posting Series Three of Doctor Who online at their Doctor Who Website. Each episode will appear online the day after it airs on CBC Television, and will remain available for up to four weeks.

It is expected that the first three episodes should be posted on the site soon. The episodes are expected to be geofenced, and only be available to those connecting from Canadian ISPs.

http://www.gallifreyone.com/news.php

Re: CBC Posting DW S3 On-Line

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Cool!

Not that I approve of this 'geofencing' business, you understand. But at last it's something I can actually look at.

[raissad.livejournal.com]

I might have posted part of this theory before, but I think I've figured out a possible reason why Ten doesn't love Martha the same way that she loves him. Here's a post I made on a DW forum...

For me, the moment of pure joy for the Doctor seemed to be when the human population was psychically rejuvinating him, not because of the god implications, but because of the psychic connection itself.

In S2's TGITF, Ten didn't start really responding to Reinette until after she instinctively crossed that psychic threshhold. Going back to the Classic Who ep., the Deadly Assassin, it's revealed that Lord Presidents communed with the psychic imprints of long dead Time Lords in the Matrix. The impression that I got is that Lord Presidents regarded this as a duty as well as priviledge, because minds must be met. Put together then, I believe that Time Lord intimacy, whether romantic or platonic, requires a psychic, as well as physical component.

If this is the case, it explains, at least partly, why his relationship with Rose was more intense to him then that with Martha. Rose absorbed the Vortex, which the Doctor absorbed from her. Plus, Ten used that dream connection to say goodbye. He established it by either a remnant of the Vortex in them both and/or the Tardis itself. All of that implies a psychic bond that he hasn't established with Martha beyond the satellite network, which he used to connect with everyone.

Back to the psychic collective rejuvination, Ten was connected to the planetary population, and he felt their faith, which religious connotations aside, was a kind of love, and he was transformed emotionally, as well as physically. A moment of growth will happen when the Doctor realizes that Earth, the source of that love, can be his new home (when not out saving the Universe).

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I like your theory and I like the way it fits what we've seen - but I have preferred interpretations of my own. Which actually don't entirely conflict with yours, though the central assumption is the opposite. See, I think he does love Martha, but believes he can't let her know it, for her own good. He knows he destroyed Rose's life - yes, she can and will have a good life in the other dimension, but that wasn't her choice, and she lost not only the life she had before, but the hope of the life she wanted with him. He also knows her heart was broken. And he is broken in so many ways.

So he can't/won't damage the good life Martha has ahead of her without him. He let her find a good place to walk away, and let her do it.

We know if he'd said 'stay with me', she would have.

[raissad.livejournal.com]

I don't have time to re-read this entire thread, so if thisn has already come up, sorry, but there's a new Tate casting theory out there that I think fits...

During the PR for TRB, Tate said that she would've loved to become the new companion, but they didn't ask her. The theory goes that they did ask her, but she was going to be busy with the final season of her own show and other things, and said no. But, she Tate made it clear that she would be free for S4, so Martha was created solely for S3 while they waited for Tate.

In the meantime, Martha/Freema because popular enough with viewers and the DW production that they realized the original plan was insufficient and they increased Martha's role to what it will be on both shows next season.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

This all sounds plausible to me. I really don't see the attraction to Catherine Tate - and she isn't as much of a contrast to Rose as Martha was - but I'm glad that Martha became popular and I'm very glad we'll be seeing her again.