Spider-Man 3...
May. 15th, 2007 10:00 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
fajrdrakoI went to see Spider-Man 3 this evening.
Now I am not exactly a casual fan of Spider-Man. Reading Spider-Man #4 all those years ago was a pivotal and exciting moment of my life, associated in memory with the fateful day I read Fantastic Four #18 (only the week before) and the day I read X-Men #1 a while later. I fell in love with Marvel comics; and I fell in love with Peter Parker. And that never-to-be-forgotten comic, Spider-Man #4, featured the very first appearance of the Sandman.
There have been many Spider-Man comics in my life since that time. I've never followed all of any one Spider-Man title, and goodness knows there have been many. There are stories, artists and writers on the title I have loved, and others I have hated.
Always, I have thought Peter Parker was one of the best heroes in comics, perhaps the most perfect example of the Marvel hero. Who could fail to love Peter? He worries about paying the rent, about his girlfriend, about his aunt, about his job, about his studies - and still has a bounce and a quip and a witty insult for his enemies as they swing, dance, fall and jump around the tops of the New York skyscrapers.
The Spider-Man movies have always been problematic for me. The stories and the characters are just off, not quite right. My mental image of Peter Parker is not Tobey Maquire in style or looks; my image of MJ is far from Kirsten Dunst.1 The best characters in the movies are Rosemary Harris as Aunt May and J.K. Simmons as J. Jonah Jameson - who is brilliant, just brilliant. They've done rather well with the villains, too - especially sexy James Franco as Harry Osborn2, Alfred Molino as Doc Oc in the last movie, and Thomas Haden Church as Flint Marko in this one.
So the movie had some magnificent scenes, though, to my taste, too much violence. I had three major problems with it. First, there was too much story. A major plot with the Sandman and the death of Uncle Ben; a major plot with Harry Osborn as the second Goblin; and a major plot with Eddie Brock as Venom. Throw in the romance with Mary Jane and complications with Gwen Stacey3 - that would be enough to keep a comic book storyline going for a couple of years. I'd have been happier with one of those plots, more carefully developed.
Second, Spidey wasn't witty and sharp and funny enough when in costume. I've always felt that when he puts on the mask, Peter Parker can let go with all the verbal cleverness he doesn't get to use in mundane life. I love the cocky, smart-ass side of Spider-Man.
Third ... and this might be hard to explain ... several times in the movie I thought, "This isn't a Marvel style story, this is DC style," but I'd be hard pressed to explain quite why I was thinking that. It had "Marvel" all over it, it had a magnificent Stan Lee moment - so why was I reminded of Lois Lane and Lana Lang when I saw the plot developing with MJ and Gwen? Because in the Spider-Man comic I never saw MJ and Gwen played in quite that way, and it was fairly typical of Superman romance plots. The writing of the movie blurred the difference between the two house styles. Because there were too many scenes of MJ falling and screaming. (Enough, already.) Because MJ wasn't a way-cool sophisticate. Because Gwen Stacey wasn't a pretty science geek.
And a last, a nitpicky complaint: why did Sandman have to turn into a forty-foot-tall giant in his final battle with Spidey? That's so wrong.
~ ~ ~
1 Someone here recently suggested that Milo Ventimiglia should play Spidey, and I absolutely love that idea.
2 If I liked this version of Peter Parker even a little bit more than I do, I'd probably be writing Peter/Harry slash after this one.
3 Though Bryce Dallas Howard as Gwen Stacey looked incredibly like those early John Romita drawings of Gwen. Just as the costume design on Thomas Haden Church as Sandman was so perfect I wanted to hug someone for getting the Steve Ditko look right.
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no subject
Date: 2007-05-16 04:00 pm (UTC)Milo V. playing Peter would be fantastic: funny that he's a native Californian, because he's always seemed like a fellow New Yorker to me in his attitude & accent. Toby M. and Kirsten D. do not seem very New Yorkish to me -- more like a pair of nice suburban kids who wandered into Queens.
Millar & Gough wrote the script for #2 (with its horrifying MJ = Lana vibe), but it looks like they didn't work on this third movie, at least not officially.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-16 04:19 pm (UTC)The second movie came alive for me only in that moment when Peter left behind the "Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman" note for J. Jonah Jamison when he stole back his costume.
I liked that. I also liked it when Mary Jane said, "Go get 'em, Tiger." It was the only moment when she seemed like Mary Jane.
That delicious moment of snark is sorely missing from the rest of the movie(s)!
Yes. Something happened to Spider's bite, and his sense of humour.
funny that he's a native Californian, because he's always seemed like a fellow New Yorker to me in his attitude & accent.
He's certainly very convincing! He has the manner down pat.
Toby M. and Kirsten D. do not seem very New Yorkish to me --
No. Really, they could be from just about anywhere else in the US.
Millar & Gough wrote the script for #2
Probably eplains a lot!
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Date: 2007-05-16 07:28 pm (UTC)I totally agree. Movie!Spider-Man has never been witty enough, and it's a real let-down. That, and Movie!MJ being so wet. I came to the comics after seeing the first two movies, and I was completely bowled over by Comics!MJ -- she's a stunner! So bright and vivacious and energetic! I knew about the "Face it, Tiger" panel, and I was expecting it to come across as her being arrogant, but the thing is, it doesn't, not in the slightest, because she really is that attractive -- not just physically, but in her personality.
I get the impression from the trailers that they're trying to cram too much in. I'm a little apprehensive on that score -- I think you could make a whole movie from just Venom, or just the second Goblin. Doing both those stories, and then adding in the Sandman and Gwen Stacy? That's over-egging the pudding, I fear.
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Date: 2007-05-16 07:47 pm (UTC)Yes. Movie MJ is such a wimp. Getting kidnapped, screaming, crying a lot - she's depressed for most of the third movie, which is okay except that I just can't imagine comic book MJ being depressed or dealing with it the way movie MJ does - fairly badly.
I was completely bowled over by Comics!MJ -- she's a stunner!
Yes, isn't she great? She has such personality and charisma - none of the girl-next-door thing, she added glamour and excitement to every scene she was in.
I knew about the "Face it, Tiger" panel, and I was expecting it to come across as her being arrogant
Nope, not arrogant. She had charm. She had an ego, too, but she earned it and justified it because she was kind and intelligent and easy to like.
you could make a whole movie from just Venom, or just the second Goblin.
Exactly. Or just the Sandman. The movie really needed more space for character development and story development on all those plot threads. It might have worked better even if there had been a dominant theme (say, the plot about Harry as heir to his father's role, and his friendship with Peter, and the Goblin's attacks on Spider-Man) with some of the rest as a secondary theme - should anyone feels that Spider battling the Green Goblin isn't enough of a plotline in itself!
And Gwen Stacey looks just like she should, but comes across (at least to my eyes) as too much of a lightweight. There's even an implication that Gwen wasn't really good at science and needed Peter's help in her courses - I was indignant on behalf of the original Gwen, who was a first-class science student.
But then, I've always thought the movies downplayed Peter Parker's intelligence, too.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-17 07:26 pm (UTC)You're so right about the villians being brilliantly cast, and to be quite honest the only thing that sorta entertained me was Harry Osborn this time around. To be honest I have an unexplained disliking for Kristen Dunst, something about her acting leans towards the whiny side and makes sympathising with her incredibly hard.
I know that at some point I checked my watch and we only had a half an hour and nothing was resolved at all. I knew it would all be extremely rushed. Also, wow could MJ stop screaming and being kidnapped and crap, I mean I was so exasperated with her being the endless victim.
First, there was too much story. A major plot with the Sandman and the death of Uncle Ben; a major plot with Harry Osborn as the second Goblin; and a major plot with Eddie Brock as Venom. Throw in the romance with Mary Jane and complications with Gwen Stacey3 - that would be enough to keep a comic book storyline going for a couple of years. I'd have been happier with one of those plots, more carefully developed.
Great great review, you said everything I felt today.
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Date: 2007-05-17 07:31 pm (UTC)Uh-huh. It might have been better with another story and different writing; it might have been better with different casting; but the combination of cast and style made it a bit of a sob-fest and I wondered where Petey's sense of humour (or sense of proportion) had gone.
wow could MJ stop screaming and being kidnapped and crap
At about that half-an-hour-from-the-end point I wanted to groan every time she screamed and fell (or screamed and was attacked, or just screamed - again). I don't know where her sense of humour had gone, either! The scene where she was dancing with Harry in the kitchen was cute, but also seemed somewhat out of character to me - more of the love triangle setup that didn't convince me.
So glad you enjoyed my comics!
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Date: 2007-05-23 09:54 pm (UTC)They had Sandman turn into a forty-foot giant for the final battle because they were trying to show that he was still following a progression of learning how to manipulate his abilities as a sand being. I agree with you that it was not a good idea.
Yeah, Gwen Stacey and MJ -- neither one was really in the movie. There was a silly, unimportant, distracting side-character with the name "Gwen Stacey," and there was this chick who didn't act like Mary Jane Watson who kept telling people that was her name -- tweaking I can understand, but this was far beyond mere tweaking!
J.K.Simmons enjoys the hell out of being J.Jonah, don't he tho'?
Aunt May, agreed -- wonderful! I have never loved the character more.
I still think that this one had so much plot because the producers wanted to get all they could out of Tobey's last portrayal. Just a guess. I, too, thought it was too much for one movie... and I also hated it that I could visually follow so little of it, as the camerawork on the CGI and fights was apparently all intentionally done to be as disorienting (unpredictable?) as possible. Maybe the videogame crowd likes that, but we longtime comics fans may not. Especially those of us with visual issues already!
I did like Peter's professor. Without making an issue of it, they gave him an academic professional with only one arm. I did like that. Just as I enjoyed how they worked with the Sandman plotline: he was made into a freak, but in the end attained his own purest humanity.
DC comic... yep. Too much mulling. That was it -- just too much mulling. What'ya think, does that hit the nail on the head? hee
no subject
Date: 2007-05-24 03:05 am (UTC)An idea that just didn't work. Too bad. Mostly they did Sandman really well.
Gwen Stacey and MJ -- neither one was really in the movie.
A shame, because they are both excellent characters. Funny how comics have a reputation for doing female characters badly, but the movies consistently do it worse.
J.K.Simmons enjoys the hell out of being J.Jonah, don't he tho'?
Oh yeas - such gusto! It's almost a caricature except that of course the original JJJ is a caricature so it works just fine!
I still think that this one had so much plot because the producers wanted to get all they could out of Tobey's last portrayal. Just a guess.
It rings true - and if so, it's just another bad idea on their part.
I did like Peter's professor. Without making an issue of it, they gave him an academic professional with only one arm.
That was Dr. Curt Conners, a.k.a. The Lizard. Totally canonical. A nice touch.