Torchwood: assessing Gwen Cooper...

[fajrdrako]

I was discussing Gwen on a mailing list today, and thought it would be fun to put my thoughts in coherent form here. A lot of it is things I've said before, but I had a bit of insight in terms of my attitude to Gwen, and the reasons for it.

Initially my reaction to Gwen Cooper (in "Everything Goes" and even "Day One") was very positive. I thought she was delightfully sexy, cute, and personable. I liked her curiosity and her drive. I liked the way she looked in a uniform in the rain. I liked her interaction with Jack - fascinated, but not giving ground. The only false note was her panic and tears when Suzie was about to kill her: I wanted her to show more courage than that. Her reaction may have been human and even realistic, but that's not my first concern in a hero. I wanted Gwen to be a hero.

Well, the story continued, and it became clear that Gwen wasn't a hero. Not because she lost moral ground - I've loved many a hero with shaky morals. In terms of the story, there are three problems with Gwen, in my opinion:

(1) She often does really, really stupid things, like taking an unstable mass murderer (who was safely in custody) alone on a road trip at night, or taking alien tech home to play with. I like my characters to be smarter and more professional than that.

(2) She lies to Rhys too much. I don't like liars. I wouldn't mind so much if she only lied about classified matters, or just to cover up her affair with Owen, but that isn't what she does. She lies about irrelevant things, she tells Rhys lies when all she needs to say is, "I'd rather not talk about that," or "that's classified". For instance, in "Out of Time" she could have told Rhys that Emma was a young friend with nowhere to go - true enough - why make up a story about a family connection that doesn't exist? Gwen was casually lying to Rhys before she even knew what Torchwood was, so we can't blame her job.

I suppose what I mean here is: I could tolerate her lying if her lies were clever, but they are generally stupid and pointless.

That being said, I absolutely love the line in "End of Days" when PC Andy tells her she's using the smile she uses when she's telling people things are okay but really everything's going to hell. I love the way PC Andy understands her.

(3) This is more vague, but though I often find Gwen endearing, she's never great. Gwen just never rises above herself to moments of wisdom or courage or accomplishment. If she did, it would do a lot to compensate for the dumb mistakes. I know Jack loves it that she's 'ordinary' but I think she's just too ordinary - and I'd rather see her become a little less so. Make a really good judgement call in difficult circumstances. Show more heroism. Too often her acts of courage look like blind recklessness.

She has faults and strengths that I love: she's an impulsive thrill-seeker, and I like that in a character. She's cute and sometimes really, really sexy. Not with Owen, alas, but with Rhys and Jack and Carys.¹

I love it that she really loves sex and is outspoken and curious and loves to pry. I love it that she'll take a line of inquiry and not let go of it till she's satisfied. I love it that she asks personal questions and says what she thinks.

I love her relationships... The odd combination of sexual tension, friendship and curiosity she feels for Captain Jack; the irritation and lust she feels for Owen - and sympathy, too, I think - and the dangerous mix of love and boredom she feels for Rhys.

Now, my latest moment of insight where Gwen in concerned has to do with Eve Myles' acting. I think Eve Myles is a very expressive actress, and I think she's good at putting across what Gwen is thinking and feeling. But on considering it (in light of her Welsh BAFTA award), I find her performance of Gwen very superficial. She makes me feel that Gwen has little or no inner life, so solid core, she's all ephemeral feeling and reaction. What or where is the real Gwen Cooper? I'm not seeing it. The impression I'm getting, visually and viscerally, is that Gwen is really shallow.

This seems particularly important to me, since Gwen is such a passionate, impulsive, reckless and outspoken character. And polyamorous as well, whether she realizes it or not. To convince us she's more than a confused airhead, we ought to see some inner strength and conviction.

The stories don't help much there. They don't give her much maturity. Even her commitment to Torchwood is played like a teeter-totter in opposition to her commitment to Rhys. I get far more sense of depth with Ianto, Toshiko and even Owen - who acts shallow for complex reasons that make perfect sense, so I'm not left feeling he's an empty man. He too lacks judgement (especially moral judgement) but he's a full and complete personality all the same.

If I had to make it an either/or question, do I like Gwen or don't I, the answer is 'yes': I like her.

I just want her to be smarter and braver and better. Less a victim of circumstance, less apologetic, more decisive without being less compassionate. Can she do it?

We'll see how she develops in season 2.

~ ~ ~

¹ Yes, I think she's bisexual.

Comments

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

I agree that Gwen needs to grow up. But before she can do that, she has to realize she needs to. I'm not sure that need has hit her yet. She seems fairly deep into denial of her own shallowness.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

She seems fairly deep into denial of her own shallowness.

True, though I'm hoping the events of "End of Days" will serve as a kind of wake-up call for her. I suppose the real question is: do the writers realize that this is what she needs?

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

She's such an excellent portrayal of a person who thinks she's deeper and stronger than she really is that I can't believe it's accidental. I think the writers know.

I also don't think she's yet had the wakeup call that would impel her to move beyond superficial changes.

If the spoilers for S2 are correct, some of the things coming up for her could imply a deeper change, but sound more like emotional voodoo to me.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I can't believe it's accidental. I think the writers know.

So why do you think they are writing her that way? Do you think they're setting up something for the future, or simply that they want her to be that way?

I also don't think she's yet had the wakeup call that would impel her to move beyond superficial changes.

So you think it's a plot thing - some development still to come?

If the spoilers for S2 are correct

Ah - I've been carefully avoiding them! So far, successfully.

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

So why do you think they are writing her that way? Do you think they're setting up something for the future, or simply that they want her to be that way?

The show's mandate is for "realistic characters and setting with fantastical elements." Both Gwen and Owen are painfully realistic, I've known far too many people like them. That's the basic reason for writing her that way.

As for what's coming in the future? This is an RTD production, you know he's going somewhere. I really can't say any more without going into spoilers, but -- let's say it looks like she tries her hand at a common form of wishful thinking.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

he show's mandate is for "realistic characters and setting with fantastical elements." Both Gwen and Owen are painfully realistic,

I think Owen is realistic. Gwen isn't... she's too inconsistent. Which is not to say that people aren't sometimes inconsistent, but I can't believe that if Gwen were as foolish as she sometimes acts, that Jack would keep her at Torchwood in a highly classified job.

This is an RTD production, you know he's going somewhere.

Yes, and actually I have a lot of faith.

let's say it looks like she tries her hand at a common form of wishful thinking.

Oooh. I like the sound of that.

[cyberducks.livejournal.com]

I have ranted enough in my lj about Gwen in the past months and I would rather not get started again - but reading your eloquent thoughts about her makes it clear to me that my biggest problem with the character is that she just doesn't inspire eloquent thoughts in me - all she does inspire so far is bitchy thoughts and head shaking. I had such high hopes for this character before the show started and after watching the first episode - but the writing just never went where I wanted the writing for the character to go. Now I am hoping that the second series will remedy that.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

my biggest problem with the character is that she just doesn't inspire eloquent thoughts

I love the way you phrased that!

I had such high hopes for this character before the show started and after watching the first episode -

Yes. They set up Gwen at first as someone I enjoyed watching - then eroded that conviction.

the writing just never went where I wanted the writing for the character to go. Now I am hoping that the second series will remedy that.

Exactly my position. I live in hope.

[matilda36.livejournal.com]

I do think that the great thing about Gwen is that she is real. If we look in our lives we find plenty of Gwens.

She's just an average human being. Kudos to Russel for being brave enough to write her this way and Kudos to Eve for playing her average.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

She's just an average human being.

Hmm. I'm not sure she is average. I have a great love of seeing stories in which average people rise above their weaknesses, and I'm hoping that Gwen will do so.

[timeillusion.livejournal.com]

Well said! I hadn't really thought that much about Gwen, but every point you hit rings true. I want to like her, but feel I'm always grasping for something and hitting thin air. More wisdom and courage. But she is very cute.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I want to like her, but feel I'm always grasping for something and hitting thin air. More wisdom and courage.

Even just a little bit more.

she is very cute

That she is! Lovely eyes, and that infectious smile.

I love your icon. Of course there are many icons made from that same scene, but that one is particularly sexy.

[trixtah.livejournal.com]

Excellent analysis - also, I agree with every word. I hope she gets to do a lot less of the dumbarse stuff. One of the nice things about seeing her in policewoman mode was that you got a sense of her competence. They might have been trying to show her as being "out of her depth" in the last series, but I would have expected a bit more angst on her behalf if that were the case. It just seemed clumsy.

I like her too - I'm sure it helps that I think she's hot. I just wish she'd bloody sort out her stuff with Rhys and stop the stupid bullshit. I find the "torn between two lovers" thing deeply annoying. I think she has poly tendencies too, and I'm sure that the storyline is not going to reflect it (it'll just be more cheating angst).

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

One of the nice things about seeing her in policewoman mode was that you got a sense of her competence.

Yes. And in terms of being an effective viewpoint character - at that point, I could relate to her, and it made her viewpoint palatable and even delightful. Thinking "I wonder what's going on?" with her was much more palatable than later episodes when I was thinking, "No, Gwen, don't do that, you dummy!"

I'm sure it helps that I think she's hot.

So she is! Not just as a cop, though she was probably at her hottest in "Everything Changes". (Why don't we ever see her legs again?) And then the snogging scene with Carys...Well!

I think she has poly tendencies too, and I'm sure that the storyline is not going to reflect it (it'll just be more cheating angst).

Sigh. Yeah. I'd loved to see Gwen sort out some canonical poly arrangement but she doesn't seem to have given the matter enough thought to want to do that. I don't want them to drop the sexual tension between her and Jack; I like it. I don't want her to break up with Rhys - I think he's wonderful. But as it stands, the situation is at a point of stasis, and there's nowhere it can go. It's a pity. A sort of missed chance.

[vampadvocate.livejournal.com]

I agree with most of what you've said except that I don't blame Eve Myles I blame the writing for the mis-fires in the character.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Well, obviously most of the problem with Gwen has been in the writing and the plotting. Eve Myles has a lot of charm. I don't know if my "lack of depth" problem is with her acting style, or with the script - or if it's just that she doesn't know what to do with what they give her.

[atheneunknown.livejournal.com]

Pardon if this isn't the most eloquent response to your thoughtful, insightful post, but its 6 am, and I just woke up for work...

Amen...

To everything you said. I felt all of this during the actual first watch-thru of the season. Since the season ended though I've kinda fallen into disliking her.

Could just be all the thoughts of her that stuck in my head are extremely shallow actions, or extremely stupid ones though.

[totallyflexible.livejournal.com]

I have to agree with what you just said. But I hate hating her- I think there's some definate room for improvment with Gwen and I really want the writers to go with that and not keep her like she is.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I think there's some definate room for improvment with Gwen and I really want the writers to go with that and not keep her like she is.

I think they might. I thought she was well written by Catherine Treganna, for example, in "Out of Time"; and not bad at all in "Combat"; then Chris Chibnall really blew it with "End of Days" where she did a series of bad things that were worse than ever.

I think if the writers have more time, if the scripts are more carefully edited, if Russell T. Davies pays more attention, if they give the characters the due they deserve - then Gwen would be fantastic.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

but its 6 am, and I just woke up for work

As replies go, it's great - better than I can usually do at 6 am.

Since the season ended though I've kinda fallen into disliking her.

Hmm. That would imply that her faults made a bigger impression than her virtues.

I think my reaction, looking back over the season, is a mix of frustration and disappointment, that this character I love (or want to love) comes across as both stupid and thoughtless. I want her to be just that little bit better.

[wijsgeer.livejournal.com]

I was wondering, if Gwen wasn't sexy, how would that change your opinion of her?

[starrytwiglet.livejournal.com]

I often ponder that... and decide actually I'd rather spend my time thinking about how sexy she is XD

Jokes aside... she did do a few dimwit things. As long as she either stays with Rhys or dumps him in S2 I'll love her lots. If she could just make her mind up please.

Although I agree she is a bit shallow, I still felt she had depth, and I felt genuinely sorry for her during the finale when she tried to protect Rhys and he got hurt anyway.

I think essentially she just doesn't think of the consequences of a lot of things she does.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I often ponder that... and decide actually I'd rather spend my time thinking about how sexy she is XD

Good point! I adore her sexier moments and wish they'd play them up - I'd forgive a lot.

As long as she either stays with Rhys or dumps him in S2 I'll love her lots. If she could just make her mind up please.

I'd be happy with other options. Like a threesome with Rhys and Jack, or a simultaneous open relationship with Rhys and Tosh - Rhys might not mind so much if Gwen's other lover was a girl. And that might satisfy Gwen's need for both excitement (with Tosh or Jack or even, heaven help us, Owen) and he need for comfortable stability like she has with Rhys.

I think essentially she just doesn't think of the consequences of a lot of things she does.

In principle, I like that - the reckless side of her. In practice, it too often comes off as stupid or destructive.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

if Gwen wasn't sexy, how would that change your opinion of her?

What an interesting question! I'd probably feel less frustration with her, because I wouldn't care as much whether I liked her or not. I might well like her better, as I do Owen, because even though he's a jerk, I can accept him as he is - Gwen's attractiveness makes me want to like her better, and makes me want to make her, in my mind, into a hero.

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

She often does really, really stupid things, like taking an unstable mass murderer (who was safely in custody) alone on a road trip at night, or taking alien tech home to play with. I like my characters to be smarter and more professional than that. [...]I don't like liars. I wouldn't mind so much if she only lied about classified matters, or just to cover up her affair with Owen, but that isn't what she does. She lies about irrelevant things, she tells Rhys lies when all she needs to say is, "I'd rather not talk about that," or "that's classified". [...]I suppose what I mean here is: I could tolerate her lying if her lies were clever, but they are generally stupid and pointless.

Word. Those are exactly the reasons I find Gwen unsympathetic as a character. I thought she was okay at first, and then I lost patience.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Losing patience with Gwen... yes. She seemed to get worse, rather than better. I hope the writers get a better handle on her next season, and get her back on the right track.

[ceindreadh.livejournal.com]

damn, that's a nice well thought out assessment of Gwen.
(if I'd tried it, things would have been a lot more bitchy!)

I will defend her on one point though "taking an unstable mass murderer (who was safely in custody) alone on a road trip at night"
I'm pretty sure that Gwen was at least in part under Suzie's influence at that point. Granted, she'd have probably felt sorry enough for Suzie even without the connection, but without Suzie in her mind, I don't think even Gwen would have been that thick to think that taking her on a road trip would have been a good idea.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

(if I'd tried it, things would have been a lot more bitchy!)

Hee. I still have enough love for the character (based mostly on the first episode) that I don't want to be bitchy about her. I want to be able to think she's wonderful. Can't quite do it, because she isn't, but I'm left with mixed feelings that make me want to defend her from my own complaints!

I'm pretty sure that Gwen was at least in part under Suzie's influence at that point.

I would really like to think you are right, but as far as I can tell, the story doesn't make the explicit or clear. Same with pushing the button on the ghost machine - I'm sure the alien gadget made her do it (just as it later made Owen do it) - but no one actually says it. Likewise with Bilis - I really think and hope that Jack's team turned on him because Bilis was messing with their heads and their emotions, not just giving them visions but making them react in certain ways - but again, the script doesn't actually say so. So it makes it harder for me not to blame them. I don't want to have to write in bits of story to redeem my beloved characters.

[burntcopper.livejournal.com]

yeah, I'd like to see less out of her depth stuff - make her do the police procedural jack brought her in to do, because she's really good at taht. And show? if you want to show adult, explore her poly tendencies.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

make her do the police procedural jack brought her in to do, because she's really good at taht.

Oh, yes, and I really like her when she is doing that. She's clever, she's tenacious, and successful when she does. More of that would be wonderful.

And show? if you want to show adult, explore her poly tendencies.

Yes, I'd really like to see that, too. And why not? I'd like to see them at least deal with it as more of an issue, as they did a very tiny bit in "Greeks Bearing Gifts". It will be interesting to see what, if anything, happens with Gwen in terms of her attraction to Jack.

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

I think Jack's attraction to Gwen is history by the end of TKKS.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

History in the sense that it's canon, or history in the sense that it's over? Why do you say that?

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

As in past tense. Notice when she's giving him the "you saved me!" lovey-eyes at the end, and he just glares back? I think the man's patience ran out that night, and he never has quite as much patience with her again.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Ah, well. You may be right. I didn't interpret it that way - though I see no reason not to, really. It's just that Jack forgave all the others so completely, I think he forgave her too. But we shall see how their relationship is in the next series.

[crabby-lioness.livejournal.com]

Forgiveness is not a "reset" button. You can forgive someone and still never feel quite the same way about them again.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

You can forgive someone and still never feel quite the same way about them again.

True enough. My impression was that Jack, having forgiven the team, felt warmer and more loving towards them than he had before - all of them. But it might of course have been a matter of mood, not permanent change. Or you may be right. Or... well, I can't really predict how Jack will be! We shall see.

[walkingowl.livejournal.com]

The only false note was her panic and tears when Suzie was about to kill her: I wanted her to show more courage than that. Her reaction may have been human and even realistic, but that's not my first concern in a hero. I wanted Gwen to be a hero.

I can offer some small bit of info which, I hope, will alter your take on this piece of Gwen's behavior.

It was a tactic. She was, after all, a trained police officer -- who did not carry a firearm. However, she would be coming into random contact with bad people (or just confused people, worse yet) who did have weapons. There are ways to deal with such situations -- you go into an act, you try to get the person to shift their thinking off the straight line it's on as they hold the gun to your head (or to some other person's). You try to throw cold water in their face, basically.

When I watched that scene for the first time, I was utterly surprised and startled: "Why the heck's she suddenly melting down? What's up with this?" Which was just what was intended, I'd say. A sudden and unexptected shift in behavior. Anything that makes the armed person hesitate is something that gives the person a moment to think, and that's enough time for them to decide to lower the weapon.

I hate to say it, but I know about defending oneself from armed attackers because I work in a potentially dangerous job that has already involved acts of random violence; most of my days are routine and boring, but the possibility is ongoing for someone to walk in our door with a shotgun or an explosive device. It's something I've had to think about. And running up to them to smack them on the head with something is not in my set of plans. (Distracting them while another coworker does this from behind them -- is.)

Do you think you can think of Gwen in this light? I have begun to, and I now like the character quite a bit. (I had a hard time warming up to her at first -- I liked Suzie too much, and was disappointed to see Gwen instantly take her place! Also, I did not like how Gwen shifted so quickly from "professional officer" to "ok sure let's kiss and make out" with the poor possessed girl in the cell.)

Hm. As for your thinking that Gwen is shallow -- I was about to comment on how much is portrayed in such eternally subtle ways. To me, Gwen has the liveliest inner life of all of them, except Ianto, who is truly still water running deep. I find Owen as interesting as a sheet of blank paper, and long for Toshiko to show more emotions, or thoughts, or anything, and twinge in guilt to say that I don't like how stingy Jack is with giving out anything, ever. No, I think Gwen shows her soul in her eyes and in how she holds her hands, how she moves. I can read volumes in her nonverbal language. Ironic, this is... coming from someone whose own body language seems nonexistent, it's so understated and/or atypical!

And I think Gwen likes Rhys, stays with him, because he's steady, because he grounds her. Although she may not realize this consciously.

Okay, I'm with you: let's see how Gwen is developed in Season Two.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

It was a tactic.

I like that as an explanation, and it's possible, but it doesn't fit with the body language, and the fact that she continued the tactic after Suzie was dead.

Morevover, though it is a good way to handle the situation in reality, it doesn't work as a storytelling device without explanation as such. On some level it doesn't matter whether Gwen's freak-out is genuine or faked, unless we know which it is. Which we don't.

I did not like how Gwen shifted so quickly from "professional officer" to "ok sure let's kiss and make out" with the poor possessed girl in the cell.

I liked that because (a) it was sexy and (b) it was explained - the alien had powerful pheromones, like a superpower.

Gwen has the liveliest inner life of all of them

In what way? I don't disagree necessarily, I'm just not sure what you mean - what indications you're pointing at.

Do you think Gwen is in love with Jack?

Ianto, who is truly still water running deep

He certainly is!

I find Owen as interesting as a sheet of blank paper

I find Owen very interesting and seldom sympathetic - until "End of Days", in any case. But interesting because he's - well, he's the opposite of Gwen - closed and self-absorbed rather than empathic.

I think Gwen likes Rhys, stays with him, because he's steady, because he grounds her

I think she stays with Rhys because she loves him and hopes he will ground her. But he doesn't. She is not grounded in the least. Maybe she really doesn't need to be - but there's a vortex of emotional chaos around her.