Another sad story....

[fajrdrako]

I hate appalling refugee cases. Not just the really flagrant cases like Maher Arar, but cases like this one look heartbreaking to me. I don't even approve of national borders, especially when people are imprisoned or suffering because of them. No one thinks Iran is a particularly good place to live right now; but the really scary thing is that this family is being held by Americans, who ought to be the good guys, who ought to be our friends, and who ought to believe in justice. Who would, or should, be horrified if other Americans were being held in such conditions.

Imagine there's no countries...

Comments

[femme-slash-fan.livejournal.com]

I'm getting more and more angry at America's stupid laws... like that one. HE'S CANADIAN FOR F&^KS SAKE! *pauses and breathes* Right, now I've vented... I really think I should try to get a grip. That is disgusting though... and really bad. He's probably going to die in there...

[dewline.livejournal.com]

Their current Imperial Gov-errrrr, Ambassador- has repeatedly made it clear that on several different topics, heeding advice between Canadian and American governments is meant by the Current Administration in Washington to be strictly a one-way street.

I know a large number of people on both sides equally distressed by this behaviour, thankfully, so I have hope that this state of affairs may not continue for much longer. Whether that helps young Kevin in the near-term, though...is still up in the air, although a larger number of media outlets are twigging to the problem.

Here's a post from one of those concerned Americans. (http://matociquala.livejournal.com/1069582.html)

Incidentally...

[dewline.livejournal.com]

...she's written a series of books centering on a Canadian lead character in an alternative future where Canada has stumbled into becoming a Great Power. We may want her for an OSFS meeting some day, I think.

Re: Incidentally...

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Good thought.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

heeding advice between Canadian and American governments is meant by the Current Administration in Washington to be strictly a one-way street.

This has probably always been the case, but it has never been so obvious.

have hope that this state of affairs may not continue for much longer.

We might get rid of Bush and his ilk, you mean?

Whether that helps young Kevin in the near-term, though...is still up in the air

Poor kid. Horrible, horrible situation.

[dewline.livejournal.com]

I do see room for hope over the medium term in the 2008 US Elections.

And I can't agree more re: Kevin's situation.

Update via CBC yesterday. (http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/03/06/refugee-family.html)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I would see more hope in the US elections if I didn't think Bush's people were masterminds at perverting democracy - that is, by creating faked but unrevokable election results.

[walkingowl.livejournal.com]

History is not going to be kind to us. That's all I have to say. Sadness and shame have made me inarticulate.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

You don't need to be personally ashamed just because you are an American - Bush is none of your doing, and I know you don't want children put in detention camps. You'd stop it if you could. Same as I would. Same as anyone with a heart would.

[walkingowl.livejournal.com]

It hurts to know that this man is strutting around on the world stage talking loudly about how proud he is to be American, and acting as if his kind is the only kind... while there are so many of us who value peace and tolerance and diversity, who have lately become afraid to say so in certain venues for fear of getting attacked for it. The ideal has gone so wrong -- that's what has me in pain about this.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't want to try to defend our own Prime Minister, myself. Or a good number of the world leaders out there, come to think of it.

I think Americans in general are going through a great sense of disillusionment - they believed so much in those "American ideals" which have fallen apart, or turned out to be illusions.

[walkingowl.livejournal.com]

I think Americans in general are going through a great sense of disillusionment - they believed so much in those "American ideals" which have fallen apart, or turned out to be illusions.

Yes. And I have to say that I don't think the ideals are illusions, as what the world in general has (according to an LJ post I read somewhere recently ;-] noticed/recognized as characterizing Canadians ARE "American" ideals. "Pre-emptive war" and surveillance on our own citizens... no, this is not my country.

Life is confusing right now.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I don't think the ideals are illusions

I think the identification of certain ideals with the United States is an illusion. Put another way: no nation has special ownership of any ideal.

noticed/recognized as characterizing Canadians ARE "American" ideals

No. I strongly disbelieve that. They might be universal ideals. They might be human ideals. But they are not American or Canadian. They don't belong to any particular nation. When the people of any country believes they have originated, or somehow 'possess', a certain set of values - and that their values are better than those of other nations - I think that's dangerous.

I think that what you are trying to say is that there should be no difference between American and Canadian values. That may be true but I have my doubts: the U.S. has always been legally/constitutionally founded on ideals I do not share. Even the notion that everyone in a nation could or should share the same ideals is something I am wary of, though I do wish no one else had the same warmongering ideals as President Bush.

"Pre-emptive war" and surveillance on our own citizens... no, this is not my country.

It isn't the country you want, or the one you should have, but it's the one that exists right now. And those are not particularly American vices. It could happen anywhere that certain men seize power and use it badly - and it has happened, over and over in history.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Being Canadian doesn't seem to mean much in these cases: Maher Arar was Canadian, for all the good it did him. There are Canadians being held in Guantanamo Bay and no one with the power to do anything about it is doing so. Nobody in Washington DC listens to Canadian authorities; they don't need to.

Scary world.

[spherissa.livejournal.com]

An Australia citizen has been held in Guantanamo and only just been charge with anything. Our Gorvernment is all proud of how our lcose relations have put him on the top of the list for being charged etc. Five years. Top of the list. I wonder what not having close relations as nations would do. Briefly I pause to consider the torture by American soldiersthat was such big news not so very long ago. Ah.

Classy country.

I think we're all cowed.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

The problem, of course, is that no one (least of all the UN and the human rights organizatoins) can make the U.S. do anything they don't want to do.

Yeah, wasn't so long ago that I would have thought that the Americans just wouldn't detain people without due process of law, and wouldn't torture people at all, that it wasn't something they did.

How times change.

[spherissa.livejournal.com]

Well, when the USSR was storng the US ahd a huge counteweight to keep the balance. Now -- the Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely quote springs to mind.

One of my friend keeps telling me there will be hope when our generation -- he is 24 -- comes fully into power. Sometimes I wonder what will be left if that ever happens. I think he's a wee bit of an optimist.

And we have proof positive that the US will ignore anything the UN says that it doesn't like re the invasion of Iraq, which puts the UN in the ignominous position of saying nothing and not having a country prove that it doesn't have the strngeth to enforce its will or to say somehting and have its credibility eroded by the US' total disregard for it as a superior body.

Truthfully there are days I feel we are living in the early, or prequel pages to an apocolyptic novel.

It amazes me that so much energy can get focusse don the war and sex when we're ~messing up our plane~ and it's already gone, too late to prevent happening now -- but the money doesn't go into energy etc it goes into blowing things up -- because that makes sense I am sure in the long run.

I think sometimes that much as I love democracy this is an age for the long term view of Kings; except of course the long term view of Kings is for the most part a myth. Kings being human and often inbed into madness are as short sighted as all.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

One of my friend keeps telling me there will be hope when our generation -- he is 24 -- comes fully into power.

I sincerely believed that when I was 24. Not... not so much. I see things now worse than ever. It shames me to see what people of my generation have done, when we had such ideals and hope in the 1970s. I am aghast that things are worse than they were then, not better, and that people have less hope and optimism than ever, the warmongers remain fully in control, and the idealistic, pacifist youth have faded away to be replaced by pragmatic and materialistic compromisers.

I don't love democracy; never did. I don't think it works even when it's handled well and honestly, because it can so easily be twisted to become dictatorship of the majority, or rule by mediocrity. And democracy is at its worst when it is administered by the fanatical and the corrupt, i.e., the Bush people, who will use it and anything else they can manipulate to get and maintain power for their own ends.

Long term views? I'm all for it. The question is: how?

This is why I try not to talk about politics in my LJ - it's all too depressing! and it makes me rant. And I have no power to improve things.

[dewline.livejournal.com]

On that last point, never assume. You've just met - or become reacquainted with - several people who share your concerns by posting the initial message of this thread. Thereby reminding yourself that you're not alone in your concerns.

Misery - if such this is - is halved when shared, is it not?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Misery - if such this is - is halved when shared, is it not?

Yes, and it really is concern.... Awareness is important, even when the matter isn't open to direct action.

[star-momma.livejournal.com]

I would add that nobody in Washington DC listens to ANYBODY.

God help us all if we don't upgrade in the next presidential election.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I would add that nobody in Washington DC listens to ANYBODY.

So true.

God help us all if we don't upgrade in the next presidential election.

Yeah.... So. When's the next election?

What does your icon mean?

[star-momma.livejournal.com]

The icon I used is a quote from Chris Eccleston's character in Shallow Grave - I highly recommend it if you haven't had the pleasure. Very odd, very interesting flick.

And the next election is next November. All the prospective candidates are already beginning their bids to entice the public. We shall see!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

a quote from Chris Eccleston's character in Shallow Grave

Oh! No, I haven't seen that yet, and I would like to. Thanks for reminding me of it.

Next November. Okay: we hope for the best.

Sorry for the off-topic

[commodorified.livejournal.com]

But my email is borked.

Thursday is fine, greek is fine, 5:30 OR 6 is fine, dpending on Alayne.

*loves*

Re: Sorry for the off-topic

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Now - that is an icon!

Condolences on the e-mail. (I wondered why you were suddenly so silent!) Okay, see you tomorrow c. 5:30 or 6.

Hugs.

Re: Sorry for the off-topic

[spherissa.livejournal.com]

Hi! *waves* you don't know me and ah the content of your comment has nothing to do with me in any world. Esxcept I could say Greek! Yay! Wonderful -- but that's not terribly relevant to anything.

Anyhow just waving to say - spiffy icon!

*scoots off*

Re: Sorry for the off-topic

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

You're welcome to join us if you can handle the commute to my place...

Re: Sorry for the off-topic

[spherissa.livejournal.com]

Ah. A very lovely invitation sadly the hike from Adelaide is a bit much for me as of yet. Maybe when I ge tmy own jet plane or better yet teleportational device.

I've always wanted to visited Canada, and I'd love to feel cold right now -- looking forward to 40C+ on Saturday... joy joy joy

Re: Sorry for the off-topic

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

sadly the hike from Adelaide is a bit much for me

I was afraid of that.

Maybe when I get my own jet plane or better yet teleportational device.

Yes. We should all have transmat beams. That's what I want for Christmas.

and I'd love to feel cold right now -- looking forward to 40C+ on Saturday

A nice balance to our -40C yesterday. But they say we'll get our own heat wave by the weekend - they're predicting the temperature will go as high as +8C. I can't even imagine that right now.

I'd be happy to share some of this cold weather with you! Really!

[tavella.livejournal.com]

Sorry. (http://www.sorryeverybody.com/gallery/1/)

Not much I know, but I'm as bummed out as you :(

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

What a wonderful site! Thanks for pointing me that way. Made me want to smile and cry at the same time.

Sadly, I believe Americans (whether they voted for Bush or not) as as much victims of this administration as anyone else. Sometimes it shows more than at other times - hurricane Katrina, for example.