Torchwood: They Keep Killing...

[fajrdrako]

I woke up early this morning and watched Torchwood: They Keep Killing... before breakfast. My internal sqeeing was set to maximum. I think I was grinning through the whole thing. Jack's braces. Gwen's big eyes. Lots of the Torchwood Hub. And witty dialogue.

1. Canonical slash between Jack and Ianto - with a stopwatch. Joy! So when will we see them kiss again? Why are the producers being so discreet? At least we got a brief postmortum kiss between Suzie and Gwen, but I'd like to see a real live conscious-and-alive kiss between Jack and Ianto. I loved the cute look Ianto gave him. And he made Jack smile. Way to go, Ianto. (Now go make him smile again.)

2. Gwen is just so sweet. How can she be an ex-cop and still be so innocent?

3. Suzie had a thing for Gwen. Awww. I'd like to love Suzie (because I really like her looks and style) but it just isn't possible. What really made me give up on her was her line that she didn't know anything about Max because she just wanted to talk about herself. I loved it that Gwen thought Suzie wanted to see her dying father out of love, and it was actually hatred. Gwen is gullible. Nicely empathic, but gullible - measures others by herself.

4. Jack's story about his boyfriends, the twin acrobats - ! C'mon, Jack, you're making that one up on the fly .... a cute fantasy to raise an eyebrow or a smile.

5. No Rhys again, but at least he was mentioned.

6. The Gwen/Owen affair took a back seat to other things, though it was mentioned. Does this imply it's preoccupying them less? Of course, we weren't getting Gwen's or Owen's interior thoughts in this one. It was nice to see Owen tending to Gwen when she was dying (or dead) on the dock. It was also interesting to learn that Suzie was Owen's lover.

7. I loved the way Jack had no sympathy for Suzie. I'd have had sympathy for her, myself - though not as much as Gwen, or at least, I wouldn't have taken her off the premises! But Jack sees through deceptions. It was also great seeing Ianto take some of the psychological pressure off him at the end, helping with the body.

8. Loved Tosh's line about her job at Torchwood having less honour because of what Suzie did.

9. A religious group? What was Suzie thinking of? I guess it was just a good place to find people whose minds she could mess with. So... retcon didn't drive anyone mad, it was just that Suzie programmed Max's brain to go psycho in just the way she wanted. Ruthless.

10. No pterodactyl this week either.

11. Good scene where the local cops were laughing at Captain Jack for being trapped in Torchwood. I liked it that it was Tosh who came up with the solution to the code, to use the ISBN. Why Emily Dickinson? I've never liked her poetry. To my ears it sounded delightfully apropos to Suzie's usage.

12. Loved Ianto's line about gloves coming in pairs.

Comments

[kikibug13.livejournal.com]

(I'm not reading your comments yet - not that I mind spoilers, but I want to form my own opinions :); this is just a comment on the out-of-the-cut text):

Have you tried watching a TW episode with a TW Bingo card in mind? TW bingo is on the tw_declassified comm; it definitely makes you look and listen hard.

Will reply on the rest probably later tonight!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Isn't tw_declassified the one where they don't bother with spoiler warnings? I didn't join it for that reason: I really don't want to be spoiled, and it's hard enough to resist reading what all the first-viewing crowd in the UK gets to see between Sunday and Tuesday. But I like the idea of a bingo card - since I'm all caught up on viewing for the moment, maybe I'll go have a look. Then that will give me an excuse to watch the episode again.

I'm eager to hear what you think of it.

[silverwhistle.livejournal.com]

I am so looking forward to this!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

As always, I look forward to hearing your reactions.

[beck-liz.livejournal.com]

2. Gwen is just so sweet. How can she be an ex-cop and still be so innocent?

It was pointed out that she mentioned in a previous episode (Countrycide, I think?) that she had been planning on working to get promoted to Desk Sergeant, not Detective. Which makes me think that although she'd certainly seen some bad things happen, she maybe wasn't quite as in the thick of it as a detective might be. She didn't usually have to deal with the reality of people's petty and horrible motives for crimes, and such. *shrug* Also, some people are just more resilient in their idealism.

8. Loved Tosh's line about her job at Torchwood having less honour because of what Suzie did.

Yes, I liked that, too.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

It's obvious that Gwen hadn't been promoted very far in the force, and it could be that she didn't particularly want to be dealing directly with crime and criminals - that this held her back. On the other hand, she was intensely curious, and she doesn't shy away from the violence when it happens, so I think she's just a thoroughly sweet person trying to deal with things, who really is, as you say, resilient in her idealism and warm nature.

[cupati.livejournal.com]

I'm trying to post this without looking at your post. I just want to say thank you. Even if it is too late... ;) [If you don't understand, pop over to torch_wood]

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

You are referring to my attempted discretion regarding the title of the episode? Yes, it's too little too late, I am afraid, but I myself don't like spoilers and do everything I can to avoid reading them - which gives me a difficult couple of days when the UK crowd has seen the episode and I haven't yet. So I certainly don't want to pass them on and spoil someone else for the episode.

I hope you enjoy it, when you get to it.

[kikibug13.livejournal.com]

Loads of thingies in this episode... though quite not as lovable as the last one. Well, they would have found it very difficult to top that one :)

Jack's suspenders. _And his sleeves rolled up_! When he is walking to retrieve Suzie... Gasp!

I loved Tosh in this episode too. I loved Ianto. Even Owen had some redeeming qualities!
Gwen... she was actually over the top. Cute, yes, gullible yes, lovable, yes... but they just overdid it. Why oh why did she insist on their using the glove _quite_ so much? Before she had even touched it?

And Gwen and Jack shifting the blame between them? Oh... bad. Bad.

The look that Jack and Gwen shared in the end... I'm not giving up on Jack/Gwen just as yet, no siree! You're right, an orgy is quite the thing for them, though.

I hated the way Jack was talking about Rhys... if Gwen left her thing to Rhys, they'd stack him too. And I'm not sure if he was joking. I want more Rhys, I do!

Oh... blah. Should stop now. in short... Squee! I saw this episode too!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

though quite not as lovable as the last one.

Both were lovable, I think. We're on a roll. These are good.

Jack's suspenders. _And his sleeves rolled up_!

Oooh yes. There are no words.

Even Owen had some redeeming qualities!

He did, and fewer obnoxious moments than he used to.

hy oh why did she insist on their using the glove _quite_ so much? Before she had even touched it?

It's dangerously addictive, and psychic - works through the brain, right? Think of the One Ring in The Lord of the Rings. You don't have to touch it to feel its lure.

The look that Jack and Gwen shared in the end... I'm not giving up on Jack/Gwen just as yet, no siree!

I am more than ever sure something will happen between them and more than ever hoping for it. Let Gwen have her jollies with shallow Owen, let Jack have his fun with lovely Ianto - the Gwen/Jack days will come, I am sure.

I'm not sure if he was joking.

Not entirely joking, I think, but not literally true - more of a warning that they'd be keeping an eye on things.

I want more Rhys, I do!

yes! Come back, Rhys!

Should stop now

Oh, no, do continue, I'm enjoying this. (Suspenders. Rolled-up sleeves. Gorgeous shirt. Gorgeous frown. Even more gorgeous smile.)

[vervassal.livejournal.com]

That episode made me so happy in so many ways. Gwen was... Gwen, Indira Varma rocked, Owen was decent, and as for the stopwatch...

♥♥♥

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

You said it! All those things. I am a very happy fan.

[kikibug13.livejournal.com]

Jack/Ianto has _got_ to be canon.

I mean, with what little capacity I have for that, I have been thinking... why would Ianto be asking Jack, in Cyberwoman, "in how long haven't you asked me how I felt/what is going on with me" or something like that? I mean, Gwen is _always_ surprised at how -little- Torchwood team members communicated down on the personal level... But Ianto is actually angry at Jack for not asking him.
Hmmm... Could Ianto have been worried that having an affair with a woman while Lisa was incapacitated would be cheating, while a man wouldn't (hah, try to get that one past Jack. Or the Doctor...)

Another thing...
That soliloqui of Jack's, in the very beginning ("contraceptives in the rain...")... Who is he talking to? "At least Lisa won't get pregnant again.... Ianto? Hmmm.. If so, just _how_ close are they?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Jack/Ianto has _got_ to be canon.

It is! It is! Happy dance. I'm a little surprised at how pleased I am, given that my pairing-of-choice is Jack/Doctor. But. I was worried at the poor man's isolation. With Ianto to provide some loving comfort (not to mention fun and games), I feel much better about his situation. The monster in the dark may or may not get him, he may or may not find what he needs when he finds the Doctor, the aliens may destroy humanity, but hey, Jack isn't as alone as he feels.

Could Ianto have been worried that having an affair with a woman while Lisa was incapacitated would be cheating, while a man wouldn't (hah, try to get that one past Jack. Or the Doctor...)

Ianto may have thought that - he is, after all, a 21st century person, and he'd never had any lover but Lisa before that. Or he may just have felt desperate.

That soliloqui of Jack's, in the very beginning ("contraceptives in the rain...")... Who is he talking to?

I've wondered that. Gwen, since he knows she's listening? Himself? The Torchwood team, who don't seem to be paying much attention? ("It's just Jack rambling on again...")

my response.

[atheneunknown.livejournal.com]

1.The dynamic between Jack/Ianto is adorable. Though I'd love to know exactly when that started, because if its been going on for any amount of time Ianto didn't wait very long after Lisas death. I too would enjoy more onscreen time between them, kissing or not. An exploration of their relationship would make me just as happy.

2. I love how real and naive she is as well.

3. I was more then slightly miffed at the fact that they didn't go into WHY she killed her father. Was he abusive, non existant in her life, did he cheat on her mother? For god sake he might have just never gotten her that pony she asked for every year for christmas for all we know.

4. I'd really rather not think that was a fantasy. I'd love to picture that in my head as the real thing.

5. Rhys is becoming less and less involved, and I'm not sure if I'm upset or not. When you first get a new job your life does tend to revolve around it for a bit, and the others in your life fade for a while. So if we're supposed to be in Gwens perspective, then it makes sense.

6. They weren't shown directly, but they don't make it very subtle. Everyone on the team has to know. The way they flirt, and the way Owens always right there when somethings wrong with her. Even after the glove thing he was on her like white on rice. Not that I blame him, being a doctor and all he'd be the first one I'd want there, but still.

7. Jack made me happy in this ep all around. "You started it." Was a true and honest answer to what she was saying, and that doesn't happen often lol.

8. I agree with you about Tosh's comment. I'm glad we had last weeks episode to really bring me into her character. She's actually quite cool now that I've gotten to see more of her.

9. The whole group religous thing seemed logical. With what she was saying about the earth getting all the universes shit, she probably needed to feel like there was something BIGGER...that is if she went there for counciling and not just to find a person to put this plan into affect with.

10. Pteryodactl needs to be round more.

11. I hope they keep that female officer in the series, she'd be a great bantering partner with Jack. Especially now that she's seen the softer side of Torchwood lol.

12. Oh god that line bout killed me. Because he's right. He's very right. And the look Jack gave him was perfect.

Re: my response.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

The dynamic between Jack/Ianto is adorable.

It certainly is. I wasn't really hooked on Ianto till "They Keep Killing Susie", although I had come to like him in "Countrycide" - but it was his cute humour in "Susie" that really endeared him to me.

Though I'd love to know exactly when that started, because if its been going on for any amount of time Ianto didn't wait very long after Lisas death.

I suspect they're not going to tell us when it started. Some fans think it started before Lisa's death. I don't; I think it started afterwards, maybe soon afterwards, since Ianto had a lot of strong feelings churned up there. It only takes seconds for feelings to change, or for arousal. (Maybe not even that long, for Jack.)

I too would enjoy more onscreen time between them, kissing or not. An exploration of their relationship would make me just as happy.

Yes. Anything would be welcome. Even just more of scenes like we've seen.

I was more then slightly miffed at the fact that they didn't go into WHY she killed her father.

That didn't bother me - there are any number of reasons she might hate him, and I don't mind speculating as to what they were, or whether they were justified or delusional. Susie was dangerous and deceptive.

I'd really rather not think that was a fantasy. I'd love to picture that in my head as the real thing.

This is Jack's life; I am sure it was real. My comment was sort of a tease at the way Jack puts his own spin on his stories. I wonder what he'd say about the Doctor, should he ever see fit to mention him. I don't think he would - I think that's private territory.

Rhys: I just liked him, and would like to see him again. I don't even really care about his relationship with Gwen. I think Jack is slightly wrong - Gwen isn't the 'normal' person, Rhys is. He makes mundanity endearing.

Everyone on the team has to know.

Yes. I would think so.

"You started it." Was a true and honest answer to what she was saying, and that doesn't happen often lol.

Very true. I liked the way he didn't back down at any point. He doesn't in other episodes, either, unless it's warranted. I think he feels, like Tosh does, that Susie betrayed Torchwood and its purposes.

She's actually quite cool now that I've gotten to see more of her.


I think Tosh is wonderful. I hope she gets more onscreen story-time.

I hope they keep that female officer in the series, she'd be a great bantering partner with Jack.

Hearty agreement!

[raissad.livejournal.com]

I agree with everything said, so far, but Small Worlds is still my favorite over all. Re: the pterodactyl -- Since it's basically functioning as a de facto member of the team, they really need to give it a name.

Speculation -- I don't regard the tie-in stuff as canon unless it's incorporated into the series proper, but I do wonder if the pterodactyl is a Vortisaur (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storm_Warning#Vortisaur) thrown off course. RTD and Co have confessed to liking many tie-in concepts. Some of the show's writers, including RTD, Gatiss, and Cornell, have even written tie-in novels and/or audios.

So, I wonder...

[silverwhistle.livejournal.com]

Re: Vortisaur - quite possible! Could even be Ramsay?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Re: the pterodactyl -- Since it's basically functioning as a de facto member of the team, they really need to give it a name.

Yes. I can't think why they haven't. Especially when Ianto so clearly loves to name things.

do wonder if the pterodactyl is a Vortisaur thrown off course.do wonder if the pterodactyl is a Vortisaur thrown off course.

Oh, brilliant idea! It seems likely to me, especially given the nature of the Rift. I wouldn't have guessed, I don't know the canon. I love the idea. Thanks so much for the link.

[silverwhistle.livejournal.com]

Another WOW! episode!
A few thoughts to add to what's here:

What really made me give up on her was her line that she didn't know anything about Max because she just wanted to talk about herself.

I thought that was Suzie stonewalling. She clearly did know more about it but wasn't saying.

I loved it that Gwen thought Suzie wanted to see her dying father out of love, and it was actually hatred.

There may have been a hint of back-story when Suzie was talking about her mother in the car; she was evidently very close to her mother. Perhaps her father had left them, or been abusive? I think the indications are that she was a disturbed, damaged person before Torchwood, and the pressures of the job brought it to the fore.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Another WOW! episode!

Wasn't it just!

There may have been a hint of back-story when Suzie was talking about her mother in the car; she was evidently very close to her mother. Perhaps her father had left them, or been abusive?

I think we can guess something of the sort. Unfinished business, from Susie's point of view.

I think the indications are that she was a disturbed, damaged person before Torchwood

yes, a flaw in the personality that broke under stress.

[elebridith]

I said before that this was downright creepy, yes? Well, it did not get softer in second watching! On the contrary, I found some details that made it even worse creepy. (that's good, by the way:-))
The glove: yes, like you said about the One Ring: it draws Gwen to it. Must be an influence there - she was a little too fascinated! And her bitching with Jack - sounded a little too much like something Suzie would have said herself given the chance. So - influence there! Good thing Jack did not back down there.
I realized on second watching how nicely done it was how they showed Gwen getting weaker - during the long drive through the night, she begins blinking, and it increases. Really like you get sleepy at the wheel!
And what really freaked me out was Suzie saying something like "out of the darkness, something's coming" and then a fast look at Gwen and a very quick almost brutal smile that Gwen did not see. Great creepy touch! And this phrase keeps coming back in the following episodes - I like that!
Not so creepy but nice: Officer Swanson! "Can you repeat that, please? You are what?" *lol* But she got serious in a blink as soon she heard that someone was in danger. I like to see more of her. Does she show up in season two yet?
Liked Jack teasing Owen with the trigger word "Torchwood". Hah! Owen's face!
Good shot, Tosh!! Way to go!
And *Owen* is scared by Suzie?? OWEN??? Hm, almost likeable, there... *g*
Stopwatch? Oh wow! *loves Jack/Ianto* And the "they come in pairs" comment. Ooops...:-)
Two goofs (maybe?) I noticed:Even confirmed in the commentary: Owen says "we have minutes" and it's dark, and when the reach the pier, it's daylight - definitly more than minutes have passed.
And: Suzie says "you're getting shot in the head, slowly." and Gwen has blood on the back of her head. Shouldn't he injury start at her jaw? Where the bullet entered first? Or was there a wound on Gwen's jaw and I didn't see it?
Nevertheless. Great episode - creepy without being too gorey, great!

They Keep Killing Suzie

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I said before that this was downright creepy, yes?

yes.

it did not get softer in second watching!

No. As you say, if anything, it's creepier. (Shudder.)

Must be an influence there - she was a little too fascinated!

And found it almost too easy to use. While for Jack it was painful and difficult. Perhaps his age, his experience, or his TARDIS energy protects him from it?

Good thing Jack did not back down

Sometimes he knows when to dig his heels in.

Officer Swanson!... Does she show up in season two yet?

Not yet. Of all the season 1 ancillary characters, she is my favourite. She's smart and funny and sassy and gorgeous. And sexy too. Yeah, I've got a thing for Detective Swanson. I want to see more of her! More! Give her her own show! Give her a romance with Jack! Give her screen time, and plenty of it. Give us a show about her branch of the Cardiff police.

And *Owen* is scared by Suzie?? OWEN??? Hm, almost likeable, there... *g*

Some of his better series 1 moments, there. That and "Out of Time".

Owen says "we have minutes" and it's dark, and when the reach the pier, it's daylight - definitly more than minutes have passed.

I guess Owen was wrong - ! (Gasp of horror!)

Or was there a wound on Gwen's jaw and I didn't see it?

No wound in her jaw. I figured the - whatever it was, the sympathetic magic, the re-creation of the tissue damage - was working backwards, from the exit wound, and would eventually get to the point of impact. It doesn't make a lot of sense, but then, neither does a transference of death....

creepy without being too gorey, great!

All that and the stopwatch too.

[elebridith]

I got it! I finally got it! *hops* Since watching it for the first time, I had the nagging thought that Ianto reminded me of something, with the "Life Knife" and what did he call the glove? Risen Mitten or something? Those scenes - pretty big déja-vu there, but I couldn't place it. But the subconcious mind is a good and hard worker - I remembered it now! Do you perhaps know "Neverending Story" by Michael Ende? The book, not the fluffy movie. Pretty popular in Germany, don't know about overseas, though. Anyway - Ianto is Bastian! The name-giver! The kingdom Phantàsien is only able to survive because Bastian can give names no one had heard before, he just looks at the item in question and comes up with a name. I don't know if there's any connection or even a significance to that, but I found that interesting. I'll have to watch for more similarities there!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

That's a very interesting observation. I don't remember the book well enough to get the implications - I read the book long before the movie came out, and don't recall many details now. But I love the notion of Ianto as name-giver.

It's always fun looking for source that might have inspired or influenced the Torchwood writers.