Torchwood: Greeks Bearing Gifts...
Nov. 28th, 2006 10:18 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
fajrdrakoI watched Torchwood episode 7, Greeks Bearing Gifts, and loved it. I'd like to call it my favourite so far, but I've no idea, really, which episode I like best. I like it that there has been a variety of themes in the episodes so far.
Comments:
(1) I got quite impatient for a while because we weren't seeing Jack for far too long. I wanted to see what happened with Tosh read his mind, or tried to. Would she learn some of his secrets? When it happened it was even better than I hoped, and I thought that Jack in this episode was better than we've seen him yet. Loved him giving Tosh the choice as to what to do with the pendant - respecting it as her gift. I loved seeing him treating Tosh kindly. Loved her line to him about reading his mind being as if he were dead.
(2) I thought Daniela Denby-Ashe was very good in the role of Mary-Philoctetes - sexy and attractive in a slightly-bad-girl sort of way, enough to make her seduction of Tosh credible, yet still manipulative and secretive enough to be suspicious. And Tosh so vulnerable, making her credulity believable, affected by the pendant but in ways that played on her own personality flaws, her loneliness and sense of being left out or rejected, especially by Owen. Again, a case of alien technology affecting humans adversely, in ways that make it unclear whether the alien artifact was created to be neutral, beneficial or malign. It was painful to see Tosh so trusting of a strange girl she picked up in a bar, telling her stories about work at Torchwood.
And parenthetically... Mary and Tosh both had the most gorgeous dressing gowns. Well, I guess they were both Tosh's, since they were at Tosh's place. Owen may not like the style in which Tosh dresses, but I do.
I loved the scenes where they were kissing, especially when Tosh was enjoying it, especially in the restaurant. Conversely, I was cringing when poor Tosh was unhappy and Mary was pushing her. I think I identify with Toshiko too much! (But this is a good thing.)
(3) What did Jack know about what was happening with Tosh, and how did he know? And how much did he know? And from which point? From just about the beginning, I would guess, since he didn't trust her to work on the teleportation device.
(4) I loved it that, though Tosh couldn't read Jack's mind when she wore the pendant, he was able to project thoughts to her. Again, one wonders at TARDIS-induced telepathic traits he might have. Or not.
(5) Love Tosh's house.
(6) So: Gwen and Owen are having sex at every opportunity, and making more opportunities when they can. It seems she is still living with Rhys. I predict trouble to come, one way or another. Will Gwen have to choose between Rhys and Owen? Or will she even be given a choice? ...I love the way Gwen and Owen are so physically preoccupied with each other. Loved the conversation Gwen had with Tosh about it in the end, too.
Just for the record, I love Rhys and would rather see him (as
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order_of_chaos says) ready to join the Torchwood orgy and happy that Gwen and Owen are so eagerly doing each other. But I don't think this is what we are going to get. I really don't.(7) Owen. Is this the same man as in Everything Changes and Day One? Sex with Gwen has certainly changed him for the better. He didn't do or say anything obnoxious. In the Gwen/Owen relationship, he seems to be the more vulnerable. He certainly seemed competent in his work and even made attempts to be kind to Tosh.
(8) Have I mentioned how much I love Tosh? Okay, I love all the regular Torchwood characters, though I feel I don't know Ianto well even now, but I continue to think Tosh is wonderful. I identify with her much more than I do with Gwen. (Though I do love Gwen.) Even when Tosh was feeling sorry for herself in this episode, I still loved her, and usually there's nothing like self-pity in a character to make me annoyed with them. But it seemed justified - the combination of manipulation by Mary, the shock of learning about the affair between Gwen and Owen and seeing how little Owen cared about her, the mind-control of the pendant.... A nice balance.
(9) I liked the look of Mary as the alien. I liked it that she was a shapeshifter. I liked it that the skeleton from the dig turned out to be of the soldier we saw in the beginning.
(10) No pterodactyl. Damn.
(11) I like the way Toby Whithouse writes characters and emotions, and interactions.
(12) Did Tosh love Mary? At first I thought not. But as the story developed... I think Tosh wanted to love Mary, but never quite trusted her enough, and was so upset with her own situation, her reaction to the mind-reading, and her sense of exclusion, that she never came to know her enough to really love her - but she did very much want to love and be loved. It was all rebound and desperate hope. The heart-eating imagery was chilling, worthy of Boccaccio.
(13) I loved it that Jack killed Mary, putting Tosh in sort of the same position with him as Ianto. Fair enough - Mary was going to eat Tosh's heart, while Lisa was going to take Ianto's brain. Clearly Tosh does not feel a similar anger towards Jack because of it. (But I do hope Jack never has to kill Rhys, following the same pattern of killing his employees' lovers!)
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Date: 2006-11-29 05:11 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-11-29 05:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-11-29 05:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-11-29 05:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-11-29 06:01 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-11-29 12:49 pm (UTC)Yes, I agree. Using Tosh's point of view here was perfect. And I loved the contrast between their happiness and her sadness; and between their sense of awareness of each other, and her sense of being alone.
And Jack. Oh boy, this man is just *made* of angst, or for angst.
Angsty and sweet at the same time. Warm and tough. All the right combinations.
Consider it a challenge. I hope you go for it!
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Date: 2006-11-29 09:56 am (UTC)I loved the way Mary was acted. Brilliant. She just has the face to make people trust her... I bet that back before she achieved her... acquisition, she was a very successful prostitute. As she was... I could totally understand Tosh's attraction to her. Brilliant acting. Even if there was this glitch in the script... I can explain it away, but, when Tosh offers to take Mary to Torchwood, she goes oh no, they'll lock me up... whatever. Then the very next thing (well, in a way) is Tosh weeping and asking her what to do, and Mary says, take me into Torchwood. Like... :-/
Re (1)... I saw comments on several locations about people being glad that Jack's back to his DW self... I cannot say about that, but for some reason this more buoyant Jack left a sour aftertaste with me. Perhaps it's Jack obviously pretending for the sake of Tosh (mostly) and Mary (partly), but still. Have to get around to him DW... I didn't see a single episode this weekend, and I have two more to go before he comes along.
Re (2) Owen may not like the style in which Tosh dresses, but I do.
I think it was actually Gwen who made that fashion comment on Tosh. And it was fashion, not style, really (of course, I may have overlooked a style comment from Owen...) Considering that I'm not 100% Gwen's choices are really high style, I think Tosh could have overlooked that comment without any further thought... but then, she was under the onslaught between Gwen and Owen and they gave it to her pretty bad. "As long as we do it twice, we're fine." LOL
Re (3) From just about the beginning, I would guess, since he didn't trust her to work on the teleportation device.
I think not. I think he knew from the moment Toshiko walked in the Hub with the pendant, the pendant alerting him (possibly via the wrist control he used earlier to analyze the digging-site).
I think he knew what the transportation device was from the very beginning, and didn't want Tosh to work on it because what he was actually doing was reprogramming, not research - or at least not much. If he knew it was a two-person transportation device, he could guess that they might be around, and also might be alerted that it had surfaced. He couldn't know that the alien would hit on Tosh until he felt the pendant.
Re (4) He definitely could feel her probing around his mind... (confirmed in the ending conversation). I think there are telepathic abilities.
Re (6) I think Gwen put herself up for much angst - present and future. I could sort of understand the level of attraction she has for Owen... but only if Rhys was really _bad_ in bed. Which is hard for me to believe. Definitely like Rhys (and I am also sort of angry at Gwen for putting him in such a situation, as a matter of fact).
Re (7) I think Owen is quite the same as he was before. He's tormenting (even in play) Gwen (e.g., not looking at her when she came down to him), and as for even made attempts to be kind to Tosh.... Erm. I think he was quite ungracious about it, even though Tosh was very honest with that "as for the rest, it was none of my business."
That scene when Tosh faced Gwen/Owen was... fast but very pithy. Even though I accept the sentiment, what kind of line is "The left side suits you"? What was Gwen thinking of?!
Re (8) - My admiration for Naoko Mori rocketed with this episode. She was gorgeous, and it was not easy, so many distracting factors to figure in... and she was organic every bit of it.
Re (12) I don't know. I'd call it infatuation plus rebound sex plus possibly telepathic suggestions planted by Mary before she approached her.
Heart-eating... Oh my, right before Jack came down those steps, I could see Mary taking Tosh's heart literally any moment. oooh... Cruel alien. Never mind if Tosh loved her, the alien did nothing but use Tosh.
Re (13) - there seems to be a suggestion of Tosh/Ianto pairing (Ianto goes Not again at one point, I think when the alien is threatening to kill Tosh. Not losing an interest again, possibly?)
I hope Rhys doesn't get killed. *shivers*
A very, very good episode. At least one script glitch, but many good moments.
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Date: 2006-11-29 01:06 pm (UTC)I can explain it too, in various ways - it didn't bother me. Mary wanted into Torchwood because she wanted the teleporter, but she wanted to be in a position of strength and didn't feel prepared at that point. But if her clever strategy was never any more subtle than holding a knife to Toshiko's throat, what difference did it make?
Luckily, I don't need enemy aliens to be completely consistent!
Jack's back to his DW self
He's what? Okay, maybe a little closer in this episode, in that we see a warmer side of him, but - he's still a far cry from the con-turned-hero who was so happy with the Doctor and Rose. I really look forward to your comments on Captain Jack in "Doctor Who", and what you make of the similarities and differences, and how you interpret the continuity. His last moment in "The Parting of the Ways" just breaks my heart. Mostly in a good way - I love that episode.
Fashion comment: yes, I may have confused which thought which comment.
I'm not 100% Gwen's choices are really high style
Hee! Yes. Gwen dresses ... adequately, she has a look of her own, but it's a fairly mundane style. She pulls it off because she's cute.
I think he knew from the moment Toshiko walked in the Hub with the pendant, the pendant alerting him (possibly via the wrist control he used earlier to analyze the digging-site).
Yes, and of course Jack would pick up any alien technology that came into the Hub. (Presumably Cyberwomen don't register on his scanner - perhaps because it's terrestrial technology? Strictly speaking.)
what he was actually doing was reprogramming, not research
Yes. He had a transmat beam on his Chula warship - presumably he's fully conversant with the transporter technology, but didn't necessarily want Tosh and the others to know that.
I think there are telepathic abilities.
Which, if I may say so with just a soupcon of fangirl squee, is really, really cool.
I could sort of understand the level of attraction she has for Owen... but only if Rhys was really _bad_ in bed. Which is hard for me to believe.
Oh, I agree, Rhys is clearly terrific. And she loves him. And she knows what she is doing with Owen is self-indulgent and even dangerous (emotionally speaking) but she's getting of on the excitement and the thrill as well as him. I can relate to all of that but still want to give her a shake.
Definitely like Rhys (and I am also sort of angry at Gwen for putting him in such a situation, as a matter of fact).
Though my orgy comment was facetious, I retain some hope that a Gwen/Owen/Rhys threesome is possible. We have reason to think Owen would like it.
What was Gwen thinking of?!
At the moment Gwen is so happily obsessed with Owen she isn't think of anything except him and sex.
Yup, I agree about Naoko Mori. Love her. She has such clarity with Tosh's personality. Beautiful, smart, vulnerable, and confused.
Never mind if Tosh loved her, the alien did nothing but use Tosh.
Oh, absolutely.
I hope Rhys doesn't get killed.
Me too!
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Date: 2006-11-29 10:22 am (UTC)1. It put me off of Owen/Gwen in a big way. (Probably due to my recently having been in the same situation as Tosh, with my old flatmates [not telepathy], which was traumatic.)
2. Ianto's depressed-teenager ranting seemed really OTT to me.
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Date: 2006-11-29 01:10 pm (UTC)Oh, yuck! Condolences. That's a rotten place to be.
It put me off of Owen/Gwen in a big way.
Well, as I've said, I've never much liked Owen and I don't find him sexy but I do find him interesting, and I'm willing to accept that Gwen finds him sexy. So. I don't like the pairing, I don't think it will last particularly long (though I can enjoy it while it does), I think it will end badly for both of them.
Ianto's depressed-teenager ranting seemed really OTT to me.
But Ianto is always OTT. His deadpan-butler mode is OTT. His hysterical weeping is OTT. OTT is pretty much his middle name. I've come to like Ianto, but a little bit goes a long way. He was at his best in "Countrycide" and I hope he gets more action in future.
He seems so young compared to the others.
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Date: 2006-11-29 08:44 pm (UTC)FYI -- John Barrowman and Naoko Mori starred together in a production of Miss Saigon. They really need to do a musical ep.
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Date: 2006-11-29 09:34 pm (UTC)Oh, how I wish I could have seen that! And I don't even much like Miss Saigon - but with them in it, I bet I would.
I think all the episodes of Torchwood have elements I love and elements that don't work for me. I'd have to think about what my order of favourites would be.... But I do think Greeks Bearing Gifts would be #1 or #2.
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Date: 2006-11-29 09:49 pm (UTC)Well, Boccaccio was only translating the legendary vida of Cabestanh...
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Date: 2006-11-29 09:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-11-29 09:55 pm (UTC)The Cabestanh vida is one of my favourite myths. Pound used it in Canto IV, and there's a similar legend about Guy de Coucy and the Lady of Fayel.
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Date: 2006-11-29 11:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-11-29 11:52 pm (UTC)In the de Coucy story, he dies at the siege of Acre in 1191, and asks his heart be sent back to the Lady of Fayel, his lover. However, it is received by her husband, who cooks it and serves it to her, then tells her what it is. She vows never to eat again and starves herself to death.
In the Cabestanh story (adapted by Boccaccio), Count Raimon of Castel Rossilhon kills the trobador, Guilhem de Cabestanh (his wife's lover), and has his heart cooked and served to his wife, Seremonda. When he tells her what it is, she throws herself out of the window.
It's an ancient folk-tale, that has been assigned to different characters over the centuries. The lai of Guirun uses it also.
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Date: 2006-11-29 09:52 pm (UTC)And next week - Suzie's back!
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Date: 2006-11-29 11:22 pm (UTC)Me too. I identify with her more than Gwen, and admire her more. I've come to almost like Owen, but still with reservations, and Ianto is too sweetly guileless. Suzie - she was terrific too, too bad she fell to the dark side. As it stands, my favourites are Jack and Tosh, with a tip of the hat to Rhys.
It'll be good to see Suzie again. Give her a chance to expiate her crime, maybe?
Sensory Impairment
Date: 2006-12-07 11:59 pm (UTC)I have a thought. So many instances of alien artifacts having subtle affects on humans -- what are the chances that Gwen/Owen is NOT, at least in part...?
Re: Sensory Impairment
Date: 2006-12-08 02:54 am (UTC)Be patient. You will eventually see it. Really. I know... if it was me, I wouldn't feel patient, either.
You think something influenced Owen and Gwen to mutual lust? I think it probably came naturally. Owen being Owen. Gwen being Gwen.
Re: Sensory Impairment
Date: 2006-12-11 04:56 am (UTC)Ah, that I trust! hee
Really. I know... if it was me, I wouldn't feel patient, either.
Patience is such an over-rated virtue. And you, I acknowledge, have as much patience in such matters as would a budgie after catching first sight of the bok choi.
As for "Owen being Owen... Gwen being Gwen" -- um, you're maybe saying that something on this show is actually nothing more than what it appears on the surface to be? ...Well, that would be novel!
We shall all wait and see. With strained patience. Think Rocky Horror: Antici... ... ...pation.
Re: Sensory Impairment
Date: 2006-12-11 04:59 am (UTC)Re: Sensory Impairment
Date: 2006-12-11 01:49 pm (UTC)Re: Sensory Impairment
Date: 2006-12-13 05:06 am (UTC)Re: Sensory Impairment
Date: 2006-12-13 05:07 am (UTC)Re: Sensory Impairment
Date: 2006-12-13 05:14 am (UTC)Re: Sensory Impairment
Date: 2006-12-13 05:15 am (UTC)I am on my way to bed.
Yes, I am.
Re: Sensory Impairment
Date: 2006-12-13 05:16 am (UTC)Re: Sensory Impairment
Date: 2006-12-11 01:46 pm (UTC)LOL. And who do you think is the back influence on whom, hmm?
you're maybe saying that something on this show is actually nothing more than what it appears on the surface to be? ...Well, that would be novel!
The whole trick would be in figuring out what it appears to be! I see a lot of Batman in it, and Buffy, and some X-Men. I love the way they live and work underground (in more senses than one!) but their focus is outer space.
Antici... ... ...pation.
A fine sauce for future viewing.
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Date: 2008-02-12 12:40 pm (UTC)Mary? A real force of nature, that woman. Tosh never stood a chance, I guess. Somehow, sometimes, the word "predator" came to my mind. But, according to the commentary, her alien form was supposed to be beautiful... I beg to differ a bit - I thought the black eyes were *so* creepy! And no nose - Lord Voldemort, anyone? But the way it moved *was* beautiful!
Naoko - wow, what impressive acting! Her despair while using the pendant on the street - made me want to hug her:-)
It was interesting that Jack could feel Tosh probing his mind - I think he suspected something the moment she walked in with the pendant, given that his wristband can scan for alien tech. And he did not really believe her story about the crazy husband, but then he could really feel her in his brain. I think that's TARDIS influence. Loved his face when Tosh said about him feeling like he's dead.
Little moments I liked? Gwen giving the "love suited you" speech - she really felt bad for Tosh!
When Mary let her go, Tosh runs to - Ianto! I guess the two really developed a connection during "Countrycide", which is nice.
So, another lover killed by Torchwood - that becomes a habit here!:-) Pity, I wouldn't have minded if Mary had shown up again later. Oh well.
Jack was surprisingly kind to Tosh in the end - made me think if there was a talk like this with Ianto after Cyberwoman, only we did not see it onscreen. Anyway, that was nice. "Do I get to beat people?" *lol*!!
Great episode!
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Date: 2008-02-15 04:58 pm (UTC)Yeah. I know I wouldn't have. Mary was hot. And intersting. On the other hand, seduction aside, I was furious with Tosh for telling Mary so much about Torchwood right off. Yes, Mary was pulling a really good con job, but... Tosh knows what's at stake regading Torchwood. Fate of the world and so on. And just because her hormones are involved, she blabs to a friendly face who picks her up in a bar. Even Owen doesn't do that.
according to the commentary, her alien form was supposed to be beautiful... I beg to differ a bit - I thought the black eyes were *so* creepy! And no nose - Lord Voldemort, anyone? But the way it moved *was* beautiful!
Yes. She was graceful. Sort of ... attractive and creepy at the same time. Context makes a difference: there's another of her species in "The Sarah Jane Adventures" who is just a nice alien who comes to read poetry with Sarah Jane. She (he?) doesn't seem creepy to me at all. THere's even an action figure of her/him/it.
Her despair while using the pendant on the street - made me want to hug her:-)
Yes. I just love her when she's at her best.
It was interesting that Jack could feel Tosh probing his mind
Very interesting! Jack's brain is a complicated place.
I think that's TARDIS influence
I like that theory.
Loved his face when Tosh said about him feeling like he's dead.
I thought that was heartbreaking. It isn't until after "Utopia", I think, that Jack really comes to terms with being immortal.
When Mary let her go, Tosh runs to - Ianto! I guess the two really developed a connection during "Countrycide", which is nice.
I like that thought, too. I like Ianto and Tosh together and we don't see it a lot.
another lover killed by Torchwood - that becomes a habit here!:-)
If I was Rhys, I'd worry - but then, he doesn't know. Just as well.
Jack was surprisingly kind to Tosh in the end - made me think if there was a talk like this with Ianto after Cyberwoman, only we did not see it onscreen.
What a nice thought. Yes. There must have been conversations between them. But generally, with Ianto, Jack seems to use touch as a medium of comfort - with Tosh he (mostly) uses talk.
"Do I get to beat people?"
Only if they want you to, Jack.
Great episode!
Yes. You make me want to go back and see it again. When I have time.
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Date: 2008-02-16 11:29 am (UTC)Yep. Not exactly furious, but like "eh...Tosh???" I think Mary caught her in a very weak moment - maybe Mary has already watched her for some time and, using the pendant, just seized the moment of Tosh's despair. Predator. Very hot predator:-)
Now *that* is nice! Poetry-reading alien, who would've thought! Never seen the SJ adventures, how are they like?
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Date: 2008-02-16 12:54 pm (UTC)Tosh, whatever her personal feelings or needs, should at least have the integrity of her profession! It wasn't even necessary to the plot for Toshiko to blab so much; it was just a bit of characterization that could have been phrased much more discreetly.
But no, I don't ask her to be perfect, and I really did love her in this episode. And felt for her. And totally loved the way Jack as so kind to her at the end. Which is why I like the idea of a Jack/Tosh pairing, which no one but me seems to be thinking of.
It's also another reason I hate the Tosh/Owen pairing - Jack is nicer to her in five minutes of this show than Owen has been in 19 episodes.
Predator. Very hot predator:-)
Yup, that's Mary. Dangerous!
Poetry-reading alien, who would've thought!
I bet Jack knows a few of those. I wonder if he knows Sarah Jane's friend?
Never seen the SJ adventures, how are they like?
Beulah and I love the show. Very endearing characters; a nice premise; and the stories, though geared for kids, are sometimes fun, sometimes nicely suspenseful, and even at their worst - not annoying. They do tend to be unsubtle.
Most of all I really love Sarah Jane herself, who is a wonderful character and a delightful hero - a well-characterized, brave, intelligent, attractive, lovable-but-imperfect older woman who is also an action-hero - where else on TV do we find that?
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Date: 2008-02-18 07:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-18 09:57 pm (UTC)I wrote a Torchwood/Sarah Jane crossover, too, as part of a 'first kiss' challenge. Here. (http://fajrdrako.livejournal.com/777722.html)