World Enough and Time

Anthony Stewart Head and David Tennant as a professor in the same episode? It's an explosion of geeky deliciousness!

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geeky deliciousness!

And chips.

And to my surprise and astonishment, I actually liked K-9. Who'd have guessed?

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And chips.

The one thing I hate about this show: I haven't had chips in ages. Aaaah, the cravings. (K-9 is cute. Something about him is really, really, really English. Almost hilariously so.)

"... you could give us wisdom. Become a god." Y'don't think the Doctor might have had that lesson repeatedly beaten into him already? Satellite Five. Father's Day, by proxy. Boom Town-- "You might as well be a god." Lady Cassandra. Being scared of Rose in The Parting of the Ways.

Loved Sarah Jane Smith. Loved that Mickey's coming with them. Love the emo glasses. Love all around, really.

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I haven't had chips in ages. Aaaah, the cravings.

This show plays to a lot of my weaknesses. Chips. Interstellar travel. Things like that.

"Become a god."

Well, it's a recurring theme. (And not just the temptation, but, to some extent, the actuality, in various ways.) I don't think the Doctor was really seriously tempted in School Reunion, but he did like to play with the idea for a moment there. Perhaps this is his Achilles heel? Or a lesson to be relearned over and over?

Loved Sarah Jane Smith.

Me too. And her conversations with Rose. I usually hate that kind of jealousy theme, but the way it was set up - and resolved - it was quite wonderful. And I loved the Doctor's explanation to Sarah Jane (too little, too late) as to why he abandoned her.

Loved that Mickey's coming with them.

Yup. Can Mickey the Idiot become Mickey the Player? Stay tuned.

Love all around, really.

Truly. This time, I even loved the villain. (Well, of course I did.)

Also loved Mickey's conversation with K-9 in the car.

Also loved the Doctor as science teacher.

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This show plays to a lot of my weaknesses. Chips. Interstellar travel. Things like that.

*cracks up* Couldn't have put it better myself.

I don't think the Doctor was really seriously tempted in School Reunion, but he did like to play with the idea for a moment there.

I liked that. It made the repetition okay. There was movement; it wasn't the same lesson over and over.... as opposed to Satellite Five, where he played God, destroyed, and ran off without a thought afterward. He's learned.

And I felt like Ten really came into his own, here: Nine's was a story of redemption and grace, and now Ten's found his feet, and his is a story, I think, about love: not just Rose, but in love with the world, in love with the universe, with the extraordinary things he sees, in love with, in some fundamental way, everyone he meets. It's also, of course, about abandonment and loss, because the two go hand in hand. I was so very pleased with their little moment about Rose spending the rest of her life with him, but the Doctor never truly having her-- it could have easily been an eyerolling cliché that every immortal runs into, but it was done well: touchingly and honestly.

I think the idea of going back to ordinary worlds after extraordinary things works on two levels: the one is character-wise, because of course it's hard; to paraphrase LOTR, "How do you pick up the threads of an old life?" And the other is viewer-wise: how do you go back to an ordinary existence after hearing such extraordinary tales? With all good media, there is an ache when the book is finished or the story is done, because you know you'll never have that life. The blessing of Doctor Who is that it makes the point that ordinary life is extraordinary: that having a normal man living a normal life "is the most important thing in the world", for instance. It tells us that we don't have to live extraordinary lives to be special: that we must live ordinary lives in extraordinary ways.

I liked the fundamental silliness of the Sarah Jane/Rose rivalry: the way they fought over him, and then ended up laughing about him, as though he was some ordinary-but-attractive guy, when, hello, time-and-space-travelling disturbingly-close-to-immortal demigod! Made me laugh.

And I love that the Doctor leaving Sarah Jane wasn't okay. That there wasn't a great reason for it, that he didn't have to abandon her for her own safety or anything, that he just did, and that it really was a pretty shitty thing to do. No excuses.

Anthony Stewart Head rocks so hard. I need to hunt down more stuff with him in it. And Rose's shirt! "Pirates arr cool"? Man, I want one.

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There was movement; it wasn't the same lesson over and over....

The shows plays themes but it never plays them in the same way twice. There's always development, change either from one aspect to the next logical step, or a new way of showing a similar theme. It's never the same thing twice, which is one thing that keeps the show fresh and unpredictable.

Ten really came into his own, here: Nine's was a story of redemption and grace, and now Ten's found his feet, and his is a story, I think, about love: not just Rose, but in love with the world, in love with the universe, with the extraordinary things he sees, in love with, in some fundamental way, everyone he meets.

Yes, even the monsters. Remember how he admired the beauty of the werewolf in "Tooth and Claw", for example? He loves experience, he loves anything now (or old), he loves discovering new things.... and I love all of that. It's the attitude I want to have to life (and mostly do, though I'm not as brave with the monsters as he is).

t's also, of course, about abandonment and loss, because the two go hand in hand.

I'm sure you remember the line from "Rose" about how the Doctor's companion is death. There's another wonderful line coming up soon with different meaning but similar thrust.

I was so very pleased with their little moment about Rose spending the rest of her life with him, but the Doctor never truly having her--

Major theme there. Just hang in, it gets even better.

it could have easily been an eyerolling cliché that every immortal runs into, but it was done well: touchingly and honestly.

I agree absolutely. In fact this show is doing a magnificent job of taking cliches and turning them into truths. Or maybe it's just that they take universal truths and don't make cliches of them. The relationships especially. They aren't ... well, they aren't necessarily complex, but they don't follow the patterns we're used to in TV and novels, where the love between Rose and the Doctor would follow a certain pattern (without Jack or Mickey in the picture), and Jackie would be a homey-apple-pie sort of mother who would never try to grope the Doctor...

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There's always development, change either from one aspect to the next logical step, or a new way of showing a similar theme. It's never the same thing twice, which is one thing that keeps the show fresh and unpredictable.

And, upon rewatching with my mother (yes, I did watch it twice in one day, shaddup, I'm not addicted, I can quit any time I like), the evolution has become even more apparent. He's toying with the Headmaster when he pretends to consider it, you can tell. (Cat!) It's excellent to see that sort of evolution and continuity, since I thought that was one of the main themes of last season.

Yes, even the monsters. Remember how he admired the beauty of the werewolf in "Tooth and Claw", for example? He loves experience, he loves anything now (or old), he loves discovering new things.... and I love all of that. It's the attitude I want to have to life....

Amen to all of that. That's definitely a stance I identify with and strive toward... a big reason, of course, that creatures like the Doctor and Francis Crawford appeal to me. They throw themselves into their experiences without apology, and they don't place limits on themselves, and that's the most appealing thing in the world. No wonder everyone he meets is in love with him. How could you not be?

Major theme there. Just hang in, it gets even better.

Unfortunately, I'm spoiled for the end of season two. I know, sort of, what happens. I don't know how or why or even quite exactly what, I'm trying to keep myself in the dark for that much, anyway, but I know... enough. Finding that out was actually one of the major impetuses that drove me to the show in the first place-- I was impressed with them going there. So I'm already looking out for themes along those lines. But don't tell me anything else! I don't want to know! I already want to sniffle just thinking about it.

Jackie would be a homey-apple-pie sort of mother who would never try to grope the Doctor...

*howls with laughter* Does she? When? Oh my God, I can't wait. Not that I could ever blame her, obviously, but still, allow me to say: AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I love Jackie. I love Rose's background in general, actually... looks awfully familiar. I've been better educated, possibly, and didn't grow up in a city, but I know how it is to come from a chav-tastic family with daddy issues, right down to the "dodgy top-up cards for half price" and the shopgirl career.

I would respond to your last paragraph more, but, really, you said everything I wanted to say. Nothing about this show follows old patterns, except the very oldest ones, that every story should hold in mind. I love the characters in it and I love the stories, but I love it as-a-show, too, as a really fantastic execution of a delicate art form. And it only speaks to its effectiveness and beauty that at times I forget entirely to worship and adore the artform part, and get so caught up in the characters and the stories that I neglect to love it as a show, too (in much the same way you forget to fall at the feet of Dunnett's spectacular writing style, because you're too busy shrieking and flipping about about Francis Crawford.)

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I'm not addicted, I can quit any time I like

I blink twice in bafflement. Why on earth would you want to stop? I just wish I didn't have to sleep and go to work so I could watch more.

He's toying with the Headmaster when he pretends to consider it, you can tell. (Cat!)

Yes, and we're set up to believe this is his weakness - and so it is - but he has learned to handle it, so it's no big deal in the grand scheme of things. (Lymond again: "My defenses against it are that much stronger.") There are temptations he can't resist (loving Rose?) but being power-hungry isn't one of them. I think he loves the idea of having the power to set the universe to rights, but he knows it's a fantasy.

Or perhaps more accurately, he knows that when he last set the universe to rights, he destroyed timelines and species, and has to live with the guilt of it. Prices to be paid. And the universe is too complex to fix and he doesn't understand all of it. (Though he wants to.)

No wonder everyone he meets is in love with him. How could you not be?

Of course. Even people like Mickey - whom he in no way sets out to charm - feel the admiration and envy.

I'm spoiled for the end of season two. I know, sort of, what happens.

That's a shame, but all the same, the impact is so nicely set up that knowing what happens isn't the same as experiencing how it happens.

I already want to sniffle just thinking about it.

Be prepared: line up boxes of kleenex beside your chair ahead of tie. The night "Doomsday" aired I suspect everyone in the UK was in tears at five to eight.

I love Jackie.

So do I. She's so real.

I've been better educated [than Rose], possibly

Am I right in thinking that Rose dropped out of high school? Or am I misremembering, or misunderstanding the British school system? I don't think she has more than O-levels.... Ah, well, just have to re-watch "Rose" again to remind myself. Or maybe watch the whole series again.

In any case, it's clear that Rose was too smart for the school system, probably bored with it and only too glad to get out. I can relate.

*howls with laughter* Does she? When?

Um.... at the beginning of Army of Ghosts. She kind of pounces on him. But also remember, the first thing Jackie did when she met the Doctor the first time in "Rose" was proposition him.

Sometimes when I watch the show I'm just so into it I forget to think. Other times I notice things - and I'm still noticing things, for instance, that the Doctor wears those cute black sneakers again in "The Impossible Planet".

(in much the same way you forget to fall at the feet of Dunnett's spectacular writing style, because you're too busy shrieking and flipping about about Francis Crawford.)

Yes. In both cases the content and the style enhance each other, and work on entirely different (but complementary) levels. So can just enjoy the sheer drama/romance/humour, or you can admire the vocabulary and sentence structure and pacing, or you can focus on the characters - and none of these elements is lesser than the others, or lacking in impact.

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I blink twice in bafflement. Why on earth would you want to stop? I just wish I didn't have to sleep and go to work so I could watch more.

Ha, no, of course I don't want to stop, but that line is sort of a classic addict catchphrase, so I thought it was appropriate.

There are temptations he can't resist (loving Rose?)[...] but he knows it's a fantasy.

Which, once again, sets it apart and keeps it from being a cliché. Every powerful character runs into that temptation-- many of them repeatedly-- but few have enough character development to not only resist, but to also play with the idea. Again, one of those really real touches; that's how it works. You toy with the idea, but deep down you know. (Loving Rose? I tend to think of it less as a temptation and more as a benediction or a grace he's reluctant to accept... for excellent reasons, to be fair, but still something that has less to do with taking and more to do with giving.)

Or perhaps more accurately [...] Prices to be paid.

He plays God and has to carry the weight of it; Rose is humble, and comes to the role of a god through love and the help of others... and she's granted the kindess of forgetting; reprieve, even if it is temporary, from having to deal with what she's done. (Somehow I don't think it will sit quite as heavily on her shoulders, even when she does recall.) Very.... mythic, sort of thing, that. He has the lesson to learn. She already knows it.

Of course. Even people like Mickey - whom he in no way sets out to charm - feel the admiration and envy.

Well, of course! Two hearts, you know, big enough for the whole world between 'em. And a time-machine. And so very, very clever. Do we ever find out why the Doctor picked up Rose, by the way? Not that there needs to be a reason: I can definitely see it being a mad impulse combined with a gut reaction, a dash of intuition and a sprinkling of gratitude.

That's a shame [...] isn't the same as experiencing how it happens.

True. Still. Every time they grin at each other I'm all, "Wah!" And yes, I'm definitely going to have.... several large bed-sheets ready for use as hankerchiefs, I imagine. Hell, I cried at The Parting of the Ways and the Doctor didn't even die, not really.

So do I. She's so real.

Half of my relatives and all of my neighbors, right there, on screen. It's kind of unnerving. Different accent; same tracksuit.

In any case, it's clear that Rose was too smart for the school system, probably bored with it and only too glad to get out. I can relate.

She did. So did my elder sister, for the same reasons. (Part of the reason why I was homeschooled, as a matter of fact.)

But also remember, the first thing Jackie did when she met the Doctor the first time in "Rose" was proposition him.

Well, yes, and who can blame her? Hell, I probably would have been less subtle than she was (and that takes talent, let me tell you.) But there's a difference between propositioning a strange and beautiful man that suddenly appeared in your bedroom, and trying to feel up your daughter's.... let's go with best-time-travelling-friend-and-possibly-slightly-more-and-if-not-it's-not-because-she-isn't -trying, whom you actually know. Now that's hysterically funny.

Other times I notice things...

Mad love for both incarnations' choices of clothing. Awesome coats abound. And that kind of sneaker is comfy. (By the way... the Doctor has a moped? I shouldn't be surprised, but that was hilarious. And his hair! He looked like Wolverine! Rose was cuter than a very cute button, though. I don't spend enough time fangirling her; she's an great character and Billie Piper is a gorgeous woman. With a fantastically attractive laugh.)

So can just enjoy the sheer drama/romance/humour...

Or you can jump up and down and swear a lot, which is my method of coping with fictional emotional rollercoasters. (And when I say jump up and down and swear... I mean it. Really. Did I tell you I had to do a little emergency repair with book binder's glue on Checkmate, after I threw it across the room once too often?)

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that line is sort of a classic addict catchphrase, so I thought it was appropriate.

Right: appropriate but irrelevant. I cherish all my addictions (especially this one) and don't even want to consider stopping!

few have enough character development to not only resist, but to also play with the idea.

Agreed, and I don't think the Doctor is even testing himself, he's already been tested - he's playing with the idea, trying it on again for size, and finding himself securely where he wanted to be.

Loving Rose? I tend to think of it less as a temptation and more as a benediction or a grace he's reluctant to accept...

All of that. I think, at first, he would have resisted; by the end of "The Parting of the Ways" he's into grateful and unquestioning acceptance of the gifts of her love and heroism. Perhaps it is more true to say that the 'temptation' which he resisted was the initial temptation (back in "Rose" and other early episodes) to turn his back on her, let her go, and spend his life without her. And it was the way of courage and wisdom (or at least acceptance) not to do that, to move forward and let himself he happy with her.

He plays God and has to carry the weight of it;

It would be so interesting to know more about the origins of that, i.e., the Time Wars, and what specifically he did. (I think we can guess, but can we guess right?) I wonder if we will ever know the details.

Rose is humble, and comes to the role of a god through love and the help of others...

Particularly to help the Doctor, but yes, she always instinctually tries to save others (even when she's at risk). Not without fear, sometimes - she isn't inhuman about it.

she's granted the kindess of forgetting; reprieve, even if it is temporary, from having to deal with what she's done.

She remembers or knows some of it - it's unclear how much. Seems to me the likelihood is that she sees the Tardis as acting through her, as if the power/responsibility was granted to her on a temporary basis but not fully hers. I have no canonical evidence for that; it's a hunch.

Two hearts, you know, big enough for the whole world between 'em.

Time Lord technology, bigger on the inside than the outside. Two hearts of infinite capacity - ? The apparent flip side of it - hated of the Daleks, for example - is simply part of the same thing: his hatred is for their desctruction of what he loves, including love itself.

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that line is sort of a classic addict catchphrase, so I thought it was appropriate.

Right: appropriate but irrelevant. I cherish all my addictions (especially this one) and don't even want to consider stopping!

few have enough character development to not only resist, but to also play with the idea.

Agreed, and I don't think the Doctor is even testing himself, he's already been tested - he's playing with the idea, trying it on again for size, and finding himself securely where he wanted to be.

Loving Rose? I tend to think of it less as a temptation and more as a benediction or a grace he's reluctant to accept... 

All of that. I think, at first, he would have resisted; by the end of "The Parting of the Ways" he's into grateful and unquestioning acceptance of the gifts of her love and heroism. Perhaps it is more true to say that the 'temptation' which he resisted was the initial temptation (back in "Rose" and other early episodes) to turn his back on her, let her go, and spend his life without her. And it was the way of courage and wisdom (or at least acceptance) not to do that, to move forward and let himself he happy with her.

He plays God and has to carry the weight of it;

It would be so interesting to know more about the origins of that, i.e., the Time Wars, and what specifically he did. (I think we can guess, but can we guess right?) I wonder if we will ever know the details.

Rose is humble, and comes to the role of a god through love and the help of others... 

Particularly to help the Doctor, but yes, she always instinctually tries to save others (even when she's at risk). Not without fear, sometimes - she isn't inhuman about it.

she's granted the kindess of forgetting; reprieve, even if it is temporary, from having to deal with what she's done.

She remembers or knows some of it - it's unclear how much. Seems to me the likelihood is that she sees the Tardis as acting through her, as if the power/responsibility was granted to her on a temporary basis but not fully hers. I have no canonical evidence for that; it's a hunch.

Two hearts, you know, big enough for the whole world between 'em.

Time Lord technology, bigger on the inside than the outside. Two hearts of infinite capacity - ? The apparent flip side of it - hated of the Daleks, for example - is simply part of the same thing: his hatred is for their desctruction of what he loves, including love itself.

<i.Do we ever find out why the Doctor picked up Rose, by the way?

Not specifically. I think it's something we are left to guess at. My reading is that at first, she was just another random human for him to save from the plastic-people; but he is a man of psychic insight (when he wants to use it) and he was impressed at once by her resourcefulness, her humanness and her courage. It grew from there. He tried to ditch her - failed - and liked her company too much to resist. From that, see above: the tempatation was to run, the way of wisdom was to accept, so he accepted her and his love for her, regardless of the consequences to either of them.

This is of course in contrast to the way he handled the Sarah Jane situation - presumably his normal pattern.

can definitely see it being a mad impulse combined with a gut reaction, a dash of intuition and a sprinkling of gratitude.

Yes - I think that's what I said, in different words.

mythic, sort of thing, that. He has the lesson to learn. She already knows it. 

You would expect him to be the mentor and the teacher, and her to be the acolyte and student. Instead the situation reverses - in some ways - and they balance each other - each has things to teach the other. Some of them very serious things. So they come out as equals, even though he is the mythic being and she is a shop girl. And he really *is* a mythic being and she really is a shop girl (and a human) and retains all the best of that, because being a human girl in a shop is a wonderful thing to be. Especially if you have the instincts of Rose. And the Doctor knows it, and through the stories is showing that over and over.

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Every time they grin at each other I'm all, "Wah!"

My goodness yes, me too. And I don't usually get mushy like that. At least, not since last time. (Clark and Lex? I guess.)

It's kind of unnerving. Different accent; same tracksuit.
>/i>

What a wonderful line! And so true.

Well, yes, and who can blame her?

Hee. Not me. Well, I like to think I wouldn't be so crass/obvious about it, but - part of the charm of the scene is that it's what I might *want* to do even if I wouldn't. And for that, I admire Jackie.

But there's a difference between propositioning a strange and beautiful man that suddenly appeared in your bedroom, and trying to feel up your daughter's.... let's go with best-time-travelling-friend-and-possibly-slightly-more-and-if-not-it's-not-because-she-isn't -trying,

By every measure I know they are mother-in-law and son-in-law, except not in *law*, but you know what I mean. Not that Jackie is ever entirely happy about that, for numeorus reasons.

Now that's hysterically funny.

Yes.

Awesome coats abound.

Yes - both Doctors and Captain Jack have wonderful coats.

And his hair! He looked like Wolverine!

Minus the claws. Except, perhaps, figuratively speaking. We both know that looking like Wolverine is a wonderful thing - for all he's ugly and short. That just makes it all better.

Rose was cuter than a very cute button, though. I don't spend enough time fangirling her; she's an great character and Billie Piper is a gorgeous woman. With a fantastically attractive laugh.

I was so prepared not to like her. I was so resistant to the idea of liking her. And then she turns out to be so - well, real - and Billie Piper so talented and her scripts so good and her actions so courageous - that I fell in love with Rose and think she is one of the most interesting heroes on television. Certainly one of the best female ones (where 90% or the women are just cliches with good looks).

Did I tell you I had to do a little emergency repair with book binder's glue on Checkmate, after I threw it across the room once too often?

You are not alone. I now many people who have never done that. There is one legendary woman - identity unknown - who threw the book away when Austin grey shot the rider who came over the hill at the end, and refused to ever pick up the book again, regardless of the blandishments of her friends who tried to persuade her that it would be worth it.

I never actually threw a book - books are inviolable - but it was a close thing.

(Come to think of it, I do sometimes cut books apart with scissors for ease of carrying, so they aren't entirely inviolable... but that's a purposeful, pragmatic thing. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.)

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I broke up this message because I was (as usual) blathering on at length. Didn't want LJ to chock on my message and tell me it was too long.

"How do you pick up the threads of an old life?"

It becomes increasingly clear that Rose can't. For that matter, neither can the Doctor. He lost everything in the Time Wars and can only forge ahead. (Can't even stop.)

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I broke up this message because I was (as usual) blathering on at length. Didn't want LJ to chock on my message and tell me it was too long.

"How do you pick up the threads of an old life?"

It becomes increasingly clear that Rose can't. For that matter, neither can the Doctor. He lost everything in the Time Wars and can only forge ahead. (Can't even stop.)

<i.And the other is viewer-wise: how do you go back to an ordinary existence after hearing such extraordinary tales?

You go back with a stimulated imagination, hopefully. And maybe a bit more insight?

there is an ache when the book is finished or the story is done, because you know you'll never have that life.

And the experience of the story will never be the same, after the first reading. Look how different a Dunnett novel seems the second time round. There's something almost quantum-like about it: the experience is changed by the process of being viewed. In some ways it's a better experience the second (third, fourth) time around because of greater perception and insight - you see more and understand more. But the thrill and surprise of the virgin experience is gone.

It tells us that we don't have to live extraordinary lives to be special: that we must live ordinary lives in extraordinary ways.

And make the ordinary extraordinary by doing so. The real journeys in time and space are in the head, not the Tardis. But the Tardis can be a good metaphor for the unexpected journey. For life itself? No, not just life... for experience itself.

I liked the fundamental silliness of the Sarah Jane/Rose rivalry: the way they fought over him, and then ended up laughing about him, as though he was some ordinary-but-attractive guy, when, hello, time-and-space-travelling disturbingly-close-to-immortal demigod! Made me laugh.

I thought it was lovely that they messed with the cliche of "the missus and the ex". At first it seemed simple jealousy over the Doctor - and then became clearer that the *real* jealousy was over the experience of travelling in the Tardis and having grand adventures. And they didn't need to be jealous at all, because adventures aren't a finite thing.

And I love that the Doctor leaving Sarah Jane wasn't okay. ... it really was a pretty shitty thing to do. No excuses.

It was the wrong thing to do (though not evil) and he did it badly and for the wrong reasons and he knew it and admitted as much. She forgave him. I liked that on so many levels.

Anthony Stewart Head rocks so hard. 

He was wonderful. I didn't recognize him at first. When I did, I was thrilled.

And Rose's shirt! "Pirates arr cool"? Man, I want one.

Me too. I'd also like one that says COMPANION or something.

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On a totally superficial note, I also adore Rose as lunchlady in the beginning, and the Doctor's innocent grins and mockery, and her DEATH-RAY EYES OF... DEATH AND RESENTMENT. Girl, I feel ya.

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I also adore Rose as lunchlady in the beginning... and her DEATH-RAY EYES OF... DEATH AND RESENTMENT

And she does it so well! Echoes of destruction of the Daleks!

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Did you read the TWoP recaps of "Bad Wolf" and "The Parting of the Ways"? They had some hilarious things to say about Rose's glares at Lynda-with-a-y:

The Doctor gets set for a wobbly that Earth would rather be content and defenseless than bored and scared, but notices Lynda is still there, and the Doctor about smacks the male programmer for not evacuating her. "Didn't want to leave you," she smiles up at the Doctor, and Rose...well, I mean. It's the Doctor. I already kind of hate Lynda. If you were Rose...? Hoo. Maybe the Daleks won't have the chance.

...Everybody runs off, and Lynda comes up to say "thanks, I suppose" to the Doctor. She promises to do her best. So does he. Rose's hilarious face is behind them, all "What's the word for exterminate times a thousand?" as she tries to create a Lynda-centered Delta wave with the power of her mind. But to be fair, the Doctor and Lynda come a whisper close to fully kissing, in an awkward "Do I hug my brother-in-law right now or is that gay" kind of way. The wire in her hands gets stripped like no wire has ever been stripped before. It's like, "Lady, leave me something."

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Oh, I must read that! That's quite wonderful.

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You should. They delve quite deeply into a lot of the myth surrounding it, and while I don't always agree with their conclusions, they are always good for a side-splitting laugh or two (particularly on the subject of Captain Jack.) Can't wait until they do Season Two.

Loved The Girl in the Fireplace, by the way: I keep thinking that the last one with Ten was my favorite, and then the new one will eclipse it. Love the "wife and mistress getting on" thing, when it was so obviously paralleled in Rose and Reinette. Am adjusting to Ten more and more as he continues to get more and more complex and interesting... although there are a couple of moments, particularly regarding Rose, where I wanted to smack him around and be like, "Think Nine, dammit! Nine knew how to handle her!"

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They delve quite deeply into a lot of the myth surrounding it

Which I love...

I don't always agree with their conclusions

Neither do I, but it's sometimes great to see interesting, intelligent viewpoints that just don't mesh with mine at all. The 'for instance" I remember was when Jacob - is that his name? - didn't like it that Mickey was excluded from the love-fest at the beginning of "Boomtown". I thought that was excellent on many counts and that a certain point was being made.

Can't wait until they do Season Two.

In the fall? Did I hear something about season two appearing in the U.S. this fall?

I keep thinking that the last one with Ten was my favorite, and then the new one will eclipse it.

I love 'em all. I do have favourites, I suppose, but - too many of them. Yes, each one manages to be as good or better than the last. With some blips, I suppose - I won't say what so as not to give you preconceptions.

But I certainly love The Girl in the Fireplace.

Am adjusting to Ten more and more as he continues to get more and more complex and interesting...

Agreed. A lot of fans are incensed because in this episode it appears that, in order to save Reinette and 18th century France, he abandoned Rose and Mickey to die in the Tardis. I think the pay-off was worth it and more, but it's one of those things I'm still mulling over, like the question of "why did they leave Captain Jack behind"?

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A lot of fans are incensed because in this episode it appears that, in order to save Reinette and 18th century France, he abandoned Rose and Mickey to die in the Tardis.

I liked it. It made its point: that Ten is, in many ways, a cocky inconsiderate ass who can't resist playing hero, by virtue of being (or at least seeming) younger.... whereas Nine wouldn't have done it, and then kicked himself about it for a couple of centuries. It's pick-your-poison: be an ass and regret it, or do the responsible thing, and.... regret it. Although he did seem a little light on the angst when he thought he was going to have to stay there; which makes me think he knew he was going to get back out. How much control over space-time and the Tardis does the Doctor have, anyway? Or does he just watch his own show?

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Ten is, in many ways, a cocky inconsiderate ass who can't resist playing hero

True.

whereas Nine wouldn't have done it, and then kicked himself about it for a couple of centuries.

Nine abandoned Jack in "The Parting of the Ways". He pushed the button to kill Rose in "Dalek", and regretted it, and then got a chance to save her anyway. His choices are sometimes mercurial.

It's pick-your-poison: be an ass and regret it, or do the responsible thing, and.... regret it.

Indeed.

Although he did seem a little light on the angst when he thought he was going to have to stay there; which makes me think he knew he was going to get back out.

That would make his actions appear to make more sense. I don't see the loophole, though.

How much control over space-time and the Tardis does the Doctor have, anyway?

Given the erratic behaviour of the Tardis - maybe not so much.

It occurs to me that the Doctor might have been doing the same thing he did in "The Satan Pit", and I don't want to say too much since you haven't seen it yet, but... It might be that he just *trusted* Rose to take care of herself in a potentially dangerous or fatal situation without his help. Or that he believed in hope enough to simply have faith that he would be able to survive, and go back to the Tardis.

We've seen him act reckless before, and things still turn out for the best.

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True.

Which is why we love him, of course.

Nine abandoned Jack in "The Parting of the Ways".

Although, to be fair, we don't know if he knew if Jack was alive. (And, as TWoP pointed out, it was necessary, plot-wise. "It was to be just Rose. Jack would just laugh and try to fuck David Tennant, and frankly so would you. It has to be just Rose so it'll hurt more.") He pushed the button to kill Rose, but, again... Dalek. Not one eighteenth-century beauty; one million people, "all dead". But you're right: comparing Nine and Ten's respective stories is like apples and oranges. They're different men. They're still the Doctor, they're just... different men.

Ten has the lovechild of Nine and Rose's accent. Have you ever noticed he picked up a few of Jack's habits, too? Like smacking Mickey on the cheek. I love the idea of Ten being influenced by his companions in a way that Nine, by nature, never could be.

That would make his actions appear to make more sense. I don't see the loophole, though.

True. Perhaps he just trusted Rose enough to think she would pull through for him, as you said? Last time he was stuck in a tricky situation she did turn into God. That leaves a mark. And last time was just a couple of measly Daleks, not leaving the Doctor with some pretty French aristocrat with a thing for him and three thousand years to kill. (Put it like that and space-time doesn't stand a chance.)

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I love the idea of Ten being influenced by his companions in a way that Nine, by nature, never could be.

Now, I hadn't noticed that, but I think you're right. Perhaps because Nine had a reflective/reactive quality while Ten has is man for forward momentum... finding the next step.

Perhaps he just trusted Rose enough to think she would pull through for him, as you said?

It would be consistent. It would follow the theme. The more I think about it the more I think it's right, though I don't know if it's the whole story.

Put it like that and space-time doesn't stand a chance.

Too right!

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I did mention it before, didn't I, that Sarah Jane has her own series. Audio Plays at Big Finish Production. They are great as well. I love her. She is very much a human on earth adventurer, a woman no longer 18. She is very real.

I also love Bernice Summerfield lots and lots, she has her adventures in the same universe as the Doctor, but though she also travels trough time and encounters Daleks and other nasties she is very different in her approach from the Doctor. Hard to explain, lets say she is less contained. More human, jealous, prone to drinking to much, having lovers, having a child.

BTW why did a post about cleaning your office and dust on the windowsill turn into a song of adoration on back to school? Did I miss an obvious connection? Anyway, have fun in you new office. Hope the transfer goes smoothly.

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I did mention it before, didn't I, that Sarah Jane has her own series.

No, I didn't know that. What kind of series is it? TV? Books? Okay, rather than being lazy and just asking you, I looked it up here (http://www.bernice-summerfield.co.uk/). And I see it's both. How cool is that!

More human, jealous, prone to drinking to much, having lovers, having a child.

Hmm, sounds like my kind of person! (Except for the jealousy part.)

why did a post about cleaning your office and dust on the windowsill turn into a song of adoration on back to school?

Because all topics in my life generally go in that direction, like all roads leading to Rome, or a compass always pointing North, unless they belong to Captain Jack Sparrow.

The clean-up is rather fun. Can't believe how many bags of trash I'm accumulating from one middle-sized desk. I'm throwing away stuff I've wanted to throw away for years.

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I've never read the books but I listened to several of the audioplays.

When I said jealousy I didn't mean it is a major character streak of her, just like in a normal woman who sometimes has conflicted feelings towards her lovers. (She has two recurring lovers, Jason Kane her ex-husband and Adrian Wall who is from some canine race and who fathered her son (or both Jason and Adrian did, I haven't figured out how yet). They have a bit of a complex situation going on.

I know about all roads leading to the Doctor, but why dusty windsills to back to school.
oh well never mind, it is not a game of logic ;-)

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BTW I did forget to mention she is also a professor of Archeology?

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Every word you say I love her more! I have to hear these!

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BTW why did a post about cleaning your office and dust on the windowsill turn into a song of adoration on back to school? Did I miss an obvious connection?

*raises hand sheepishly* That was me. I pester her in comments about Doctor Who episodes as I see them, regardless of whether the post has the slightest bit to do with it or not. She graciously puts up with this; I have yet to fathom why. I would have smacked me with a dead fish by now.

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I would have smacked me with a dead fish by now.

is this an Asterix and Obelix reference. I can see the Tardis landing in a little village, fighting bravely against mighty Rome

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is this an Asterix and Obelix reference.

Er, Monty Python, actually, but yours sounds classier, even though I have no idea what the hell you're talking about, so... Yes! Yes it is!

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hi hi. Asterix and Obelix is a classic reference, but about as classic and classy as Monty Phyton. It is the name of a cartoon, set in the area of present day France in the time of the Roman conquest, featuring 1 village that "bravely holds the invasion of" due to the superpowers the magic drink of their druid gives them. It has loads of historical mockery and language jokes. They have been translated into many languages, including Latin. The dead fish feature in (pratically) every book, thei bard sings the most awfully out of tune songs one can imagine and due to that or other reasons they whole village breaks out in a big fight and they always seem to use the fish or the fishstall as a weapon.
fir pictures (http://www.asterix-obelix.nl/)

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I love it that Asterix has been translated into so many languages. I got a copy in Welsh once for my father. French, English, Esperanto and Latin for myself. (Should read them again. Yes, time to practise my Latin, right?) I love it that they manage to make the stories funny in all those languages. And I love some of the diverse and goofy translations of the name.

How do you say "Asterix the Gaul" in Dutch?

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When's your birthday? I should send you an Asterix book. I discovered them in first year university, when I was *supposed* to be studying for exams but I told myself I was practising my French. They were written in French but have been translated into just about every language I've ever heard of, including Esperanto and Latin. I, coincidentally, have some copies of it in both.

It's a Belgian comic book about two Gauls in a village that is able to resist Julius Caesar and his Legions because they have a magic potion that makes them strong - here's a picture of Asterix the Gaul () and here's a picture of his pal Obelix (http://home.webnorge.no/hovdingen/images/large/obelix.jpg) with his dog Ideefix (called Dogmatix in English).

There are also two brilliant live-action movies starring Gerard Depardieu as Obelix, soon to be three movies. Also many animated movies but the original was in comic book form. (Well, albums, as they call them in Europe.)

I don't think "classy" is the word. "Funny" is the word, something Asterix and Monty Python have in common.

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