Old English

[fajrdrako]

Warning: I'm about to indulge in literary-language geekery.

When I was in my teens and heavily under the spell of Tolkien I read a lot of Anglo-Saxon works in translation and listened over and over and over to a recording I had from Caedmon records of readings of Anglo-Saxon poems. There was one I particularly liked that I memorized. My favourite bit went (in English):

Here is the horse now? Where the hero? Where the treasure-giving prince?...
How that time has now passed away,
Grown dark beneath night's helmet, as though it never were.

It was long later that I realized that Tolkien had actually written his own version of this passage and included it in The Two Towers, as the song of the Riders of Rohan. And then Peter Jackson, bless his heart, put it in the movie, where Bernard Hill recited it stunningly. That is one of my favourite scenes in all the Lord of the Rings movies, possibly my only favourite scene that doesn't (blush) feature Aragorn.

To my sorrow, I never studied Anglo-Saxon. I took Italian instead. And I adore Italian - it isn't really a regret, though I have always wished I could study Anglo-Saxon. I picked up an Anglo-Saxon text in a second-hand bookshop the other day for $2.99. Old English Grammar and Reader by Robert E. Diamond. I find this very exciting.

I want to learn to read this poem in its original language.

I found it online in several places. The text I quoted above (without the lacunae) is this:

90

"Hwær cwom mearg? Hwær cwom mago? Hwær cwom maþþumgyfa?
Hwær cwom symbla gesetu? Hwær sindon seledreamas?
Eala beorht bune! Eala byrnwiga!

95
Eala þeodnes þrym! Hu seo þrag gewat,
genap under nihthelm, swa heo no wære.

And the poem it is from is The Wanderer. There's another site that shows it in a medieval manuscript, at this site.

The translation I memorized (and have half-forgotten now) isn't online as far as I can see. Does anyone here know whose translation it is? The Hamer translation is on Lady Rivendell's Journal (see ladyofrivendell). There's a nice study-friendly edition at the University of Calgary's website, with hotlinked words - I like this! And there's this grogeous dual-language edition at an Anglo-Saxon site:

92a Hwær cwom mearg? Hwær cwom mago? [#] Where is the horse gone? Where the rider?
Hwær cwom maþþumgyfa? Where the giver of treasure?
Hwær cwom symbla gesetu? Where are the seats at the feast?
Hwær sindon seledreamas? Where are the revels in the hall?
Eala beorht bune! Alas for the bright cup!
Eala byrnwiga! Alas for the mailed warrior!
Eala þeodnes þrym! Alas for the splendour of the prince!
Hu seo þrag gewat, How that time has passed away,
96a genap under nihthelm, dark under the cover of night,
swa heo no wære. as if it had never been!

And another edition here has a translation by Robert E. Diamond, the gent who wrote my textbook:

(92) Where has the horse gone ? Where has the warrior gone ? Where has the giver of treasure gone? Where have (lit. has) the banquet seats gone? Where are the revelries in the hall? Alas, bright cup ! Alas, armored warrior ! Alas, princely splendor (lit.splendor of a prince) ! How that time has passed way, grown dark under cover of night, as (if) it had never been!

And I like the translation of Michael Alexander:

(lines 92-93)
'Where is that horse now? Where are those men? Where is the hoard-sharer?
Where is the house of the feast? Where is the hall 's uproar?
(lines 94-96)
Alas, bright cup! Alas, burnished fighter!
Alas, proud prince! How that time has passed,
Dark under night's helm, as though it never had been!

I love it that I can find so many Anglo-Saxon sources online these days. I was much more difficult to find Anglo-Saxon materials when I was in my teens. Someone - I wish I knew who - once called Anglo-Saxon "a small body of literature entirely surrounded by scholars." Still true, I think!

Hwaet.

Comments

[walkingowl.livejournal.com]

O, Old English is wonderful. When I was much too young to know how privileged I was (I believe I was 18, and in my second semester as an undergraduate), I enrolled for a higher-level English course called Middle English Literature. I barely remember a thing from it, alas, except some of the pronunciations. It didn't go into nearly as much of the grammar as I wished it would. Since then, I have been perpetually intending to learn more about both this and Anglo-Saxon (aka Old English). The Middle English stuff varies a great deal, from things that look a lot like the lines you reproduced above, to things nearly modern in appearance. I remember one line in particular, of one of the earliest portrayals of a character later to become known as The Wandering Jew: as he beats his staff upon the earth, he cries, "Leve moder, let me in!" Which is pronounced "Lay-va moe-der, late may in!"

Drat my memory, that little more than this resides there of those wonderful verses.

Is most of the earliest English/Anglo-Saxon writing in verse form, hmm? Did they not use prose structures, only lines of poetry? Interesting....

(I'd love to see the book you got! Lucky panda!!)

[ryui.livejournal.com]

Actually, there's quite a bit that's survived outside of the alliterative verse forms (the Chronicle, the Colliquey, some histories from the F Manuscript of the Chronicle), but since much of it is recorded from a verbal tradition, it tends to be in verse. Easier for the scops to recall.

Here I am, poking my nose in another person's question ^_^

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

No, thank you for answering, you are more knowledgeable about this than I am - I've only read as far as the beginning of the first chapter, so I've a way to go.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

O, Old English is wonderful.

It's certainly beautiful. I remember that so well from the recordings. The rhythms and the sounds.

I did a small bit of Middle English in my history studies, not much. Oddly, I read a lot more Old French and a language I called French Palestinian - I don't know if it has an official name - and, of course, Anglo-Norman. All much closer to French than OE is to English, but then, somewhat later as well. I wonder what Frankish was like, exactly; are there extant Frankish manuscripts?

Since then, I have been perpetually intending to learn more about both this and Anglo-Saxon (aka Old English)

Well, I can write to you about it, then, in my self-study. That might help up both, if you can stand it.

Is most of the earliest English/Anglo-Saxon writing in verse form, hmm?

Of the surviving works, I think so - the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle is the only thing I can think of in prose. I can think of lots of prose works done by the Anglo-Saxons, but they're in Latin. (Like Bede's History of the English Church and People). Maybe King Alfred did some prose - ? I haven't read his works, but I understand they are largely translations (i.e., from the Latin and Greek) and so not original OE works.

[ryui.livejournal.com]

Wes du hal!

My Old English professor actually assigned finding that line in Tolkein, movie and book, then the original, then translating it an assignment for our class. It was supposedly a "quick" assignment, because we had a project due the next day. @_@ I was very lucky to get the class, though; my university had never offered it, before. It's sadly very difficult to find colleges that offer Old English studies. Also unfortunately, few graduate schools accept it as a second language, which I think discourages undergraduates from dedicating time to it that could go toward a language that can be used for grad school.

Diamond's is a good book to start with. It was sort of the original standard in Old English studies in the 70s, when interest resurfaced in Old English works. You might also see if you can find a used copy of A Guide to Old English by Bruce Mitchell and Fred Robinson, either in the fifth or sixth editions. It's a more in depth book for grammar and structure, rather than having translations of the works. It's really not a "reader" at all. It's also an excellent guide for pronunciation of the language, and the glossary is designed to help with beginner translators of the works it includes. The organization of it is a little scattered, however.

If you know anyone who speaks German, they can be a lot of help with pronunciation.

The Wanderer is often a challenging translation. but I could be biased, since I translated it for my final project 0_~ A good thing to start with is the "Colliquey of Occupations" or even parts of the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, to sort of ease into translation.

Sorry! I've sort of rambled on!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Wes du hal is in Tolkien? Okay, I'll have to find it! It seems odd that no one has published an Annotated Tolkien. That would be fascinating. But it would also be a major work of scholarship.

I'll have a look for A Guide to Old English. It's an excuse to browse in second-hand bookstores. Thanks for the tip about translation, too!

I believed they offered Old English when I was an undergraduate, and I was tempted, but as you say - it wasn't a second-language credit. And I've never seen it offered in the evenings so I could take it since.

Please do ramble on - I love to hear about OE from anyone who knows more about it than I do. (Which is just about everyone!)

[ryui.livejournal.com]

Actually, Wes Du Hal is just "hello" I was referring to the lines you were quoting, above. I just managed to make it confusing 0_~ What we had to find was the "Where is the rider" segment in the book, movie, and original poem, then translate it.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Actually, Wes Du Hal is just "hello" I was referring to the lines you were quoting, above.

I am relieved - I was about to reread the whole trilogy, wondering where the phrase could be hidden, for me to have missed it all these years! And thank you, you have just more than doubled my knowledge of Anglo-Saxon words. "Hwaet" and "eala" were the only ones I knew, assuming that the bit of poetry I knew by rote doesn't count. The knowledge of "eala" was thanks to <lj user="acampbell", who taught it to me last week - imagine how thrilled I was to see it used and repeated in "The Wanderer"! I was to thrilled that they included "where is the rider" in one of the movies. How often do we see poetry recited in movies these days? And how often is it an Anglo-Saxon poem? I was absolutely thrilled. My second-favourite OE poem, and I am totally unfamiliar with the OE original, is Tennyson's translation of "The Battle of Brunanburgh": Athelstan king lord among earls Bracelet bestower and baron of barons He with his cousin Edmund Atheling something something Sons of Edward with hammered brands. Brings a smile to my face just to remember it.

Anglo-Saxon for fun and profit

[brancher.livejournal.com]

I highly recommend the study of Old English. It's quite easy to do translations on your own. My method: get a good text, like Mitchell & Robinson's "Beowulf: an edition" and write out each original line, leaving two lines in between. Go back with the glossary and write a word-for-word translation underneath; then go back again and write a looser, more grammatical translation on the third line.

It's fairly clear if you remember that antecedents in Old English poetry are sometimes a few lines away from their pronouns.

Good luck and have fun!

Re: Anglo-Saxon for fun and profit

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

It's quite easy to do translations on your own.

Thank you, that's encouraging! I like your suggestions.

It's fairly clear if you remember that antecedents in Old English poetry are sometimes a few lines away from their pronouns.

I remember growling and cursing at Latin for that - in Virgil especially - surely it can't be worse? (Feeling mild trepidation.... but enjoying the sense of challenge.)

Re: Anglo-Saxon for fun and profit

[brancher.livejournal.com]

Well, everyone has a lot of epithets; sometimes the epithets crop up pretty far away from the last mention of the person, in order to round out a half line. You might be startled by a sudden reference to a treasure-giver or a strong-minded-one whose name or person hasn't appeared in some time.

But it's certainly worth it. But don't take my word for it; listen to Jorge Luis Borges:


POEM WRITTEN IN A COPY OF BEOWULF

At various times, I have asked myself what reasons
moved me to study, while my night came down,
without particular hope of satisfaction,
the language of the blunt-tongued Anglo-Saxons.

Used up by the years, my memory
loses its grip on words that I have vainly
repeated and repeated. My life in the same way
weaves and unweaves its weary history.

Then I tell myself: it must be that the soul
has some secret, sufficient way of knowing
that it is immortal, that its vast, encompassing
circle can take in all, can accomplish all.

Beyond my anxiety, beyond this writing,
the universe waits, inexhaustible, inviting.

Re: Anglo-Saxon for fun and profit

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

What a wonderful poem. For one thing, I am charmed at the idea of writing a poem in a copy of another poem. I like to think the Beowulf poet would like it too.

Borges got me thinking about the mystique of Anglo-Saxon. It's mysterious; it partakes of a world hidden from us by time and cultural interferences - the Normans and all that Greco-Roman line of classical worldview. It's gone, that whole culture barely a memory, appearing only in our libraries as fantasy, history and the occasional movie, but for that reason it has all the more appeal. It came before us. It helped to create us, but it isn't us, it isn't our culture or our language, it's a precursor that is somehow strong and vivid still, aggressively masculine and musical, with those leaf-entwined curling animals that aren't quite Celtic.

[ceruleancat.livejournal.com]

This discussion is so fun and informative. Thank you.
I always wanted to learn OE, but my university never offered anything more than cursory readings in Boewulf in the Intro to English Lit.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

This discussion is so fun and informative. Thank you.

Oh dear. You are encouraging me. Do you have any idea how dangerous that is? You may find yourself inundated with enthusiastic (but pedantic) discussions of the difference between one declension and another, absurd musings on the possibly contradictory meanings of the two hundred and twenty-second line of Beowulf, and speculations about the slash possibilities inherent in The Seafarer.

You know, the only thing worse that an OE scholar is a frustrated OE scholar who failed to get a fix when young, when we might have had a hope of outgrowing the passion. As it is, you and I are in the same situation.

P.S. I love your icon.

[ceruleancat.livejournal.com]

Oh dear. You are encouraging me. Do you have any idea how dangerous that is? You may find yourself inundated with enthusiastic (but pedantic) discussions...

Evil grin. I'm all for that.

of the difference between one declension and another...

Oooh. lovely. And if you get too much into the morphology, I could always ask for more syntactic structure. ;)

re icon - Thanks. :) there's more of the type, if you want to spread the love.
I really should put them online.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

And if you get too much into the morphology, I could always ask for more syntactic structure. ;)

Ooh. I tingle in anticipation.


there's more of the type, if you want to spread the love.


I most certainly do!


I really should put them online.

Yes, please do.

[ceruleancat.livejournal.com]

Yumm. Nice linguistic discussion of dead languages.

*Rubbing hands happily in anticipation*

And I'll post the icons on my lj later today. Promise.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Nice linguistic discussion of dead languages.

I live for such things.

I'll post the icons on my lj later today

Great - thank you!

(Contemplating the possibility of a Beowulf icon.)