Torchwood: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly...

[fajrdrako]

I was talking about the writing on Torchwood with donutsweeper and it made me think of Torchwood episodes in another way. Usually I'd just rate them in order of preference (with "Captain Jack Harkness" on top and probably "Exit Wounds" on the bottom), but looking at the writers, it occurred to me that some of them were writing in quite different styles, adding to the variability of the finished product. Understand that I like character-driven stories, I care more about character continuity and development than plot continuity, and I love nothing more than good tight structure in a story. Doctor Who excells at these things I like best, and I had hoped and expected Torchwood to do the same. It doesn't. Luckily, it has its own virtues and I love it beyond anything. But I would never pretend it was perfect, least of all from the point of view of writing style.

The good writers:

1. Catherine Treganna, who wrote all my favourite episodes: "Captain Jack Harkness", "Out of Time", "Meat" and "Adam". I hope for more from her. The best stories, the best structure to those stories, the best and most consistent characterization. In those stories, characters made sense to me which usually don't. She had some of my favourite one-liners, too.
   
   
2. James Moran, for "Sleeper". Scary and moving, if a little over-violent. He knows his characters and my high opinion of his skills only increased with his excellent "Captain's Blog".
   
   
3. Noel Clarke, for "Combat". Who'd have thought I would so enjoy a story about Owen and Weevils?

Then there's a category of Torchwood writer whose stories are good, but their characterization is odd, and they might be writing random characters in any story - stories so plot-driven that if they weren't played by the actors I know, I wouldn't have recognized the characters. Not to say that they were terrible, just that their basic personalities weren't in evidence:

1. Helen Raynor, for "Ghost Machine" and "To the Last Man";
   
2. Joseph Lidster for "A Day in the Death";
   
3. Peter J. Hammond for "From Out of the Rain" and "Small Worlds"
   
4. Jacquetta May for "Random Shoes"

Then there's the stories who were conceptually intruiging and potentially brilliant, which ended up being a mess:

1. Paul Tomalin and Dan McCulloch for "They Keep Killing Suzie";
   
2. Chris Chibnall for "End of Days" (which began so well with "Captain Jack Harknes"), and "Exit Wounds";
   
3. Matt Jones for "Dead Man Walking" (which had its conceptual problems, too!)

Who does that leave? I'm not the biggest lover of "Something Borrowed", but it was quite charmingly written by Phil Ford. J.C. Wilsher on "Reset", which I liked very much indeed - he did such a wonderful job of the banter with Jack and Martha, and Martha and Ianto - I loved Jack's enthusiasm over Martha, which made "A Day in the Death" all the more disappointing to me.
Then there's Russell T Davies on "Everything Changes", which I unabashedly love.

Comments

[loupgaros.livejournal.com]

Oooh, what an idea. I think I'll bite.

For the good, I do agree that Treganna is excellent. She has the ability to tug at enotions but to tie in the essential personality of each character. She made me confused during Adam when he appeared in the Hub and saddened when you realised he just wanted to be loved and adored in memory. Meat was the first thing in ages that roused anger, hatred and pure revenge in me as I watched it. First time I watched it on iPlayer I was incandescent with rage and everytime I rewatch it, that does not go away. Anything that rouses such emotion deserves to be noted.

Weevil Fight Club... Yes. Definitely a good 'un!

For the not so good stuff, I notice your list includes a lot of Series 1 stuff except for Lidster. This one I do agree with because I saw it. I saw it again and I was still confused. This can't be Owen! He's being nice! Why is he on a roof, talking to a suicide case? I think this was an attempt at a Random Shoes sorta thing for Series 2 but it left me confused.

Now for the bad... Dear oh dear. I did feel that End of Days was rushed. What sort of end was that? What a disappointing end to a monster. I think that Chibnall should have thought things through more on that one.

No real disagreements though. I'd have put Random Shoes in the bad category because it left me wondering as to its worth at all but that's minor. :P

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I do agree that Treganna is excellent.

I don't think we're getting anything by her next year, if I recall correctly. Too bad.

Yes, personality is her strength. Her stories focus right on the characteristics that make each of the Torchwood team distinctive. I love that!

For the not so good stuff, I notice your list includes a lot of Series 1 stuff except for Lidster.

Series 1 was such a mixed bag. On the whole, I prefer it to series 2, but it's flaws were more obvious.

"End of Days" needed a rewrite. Or a rethink. I loved the ending, though, from tghe scene with Gwen in the morgue with Jack's body to the last second.

Come to think of it, "End of Days" had a lot of moments I loved. It was just the story that didn't work.

"Random Shoes" was a fine story, I thought, but it didn't belong in Torchwood and it isn't the kind of story I watch Torchwood for. I don't dislike it but I don't watch it over again, either.

[51stcenturyfox.livejournal.com]

Peter J. Hammond for "From Out of the Rain" and "Small Worlds".

Hey, my two least-favorite episodes.

I'm with you on Catherine Treganna. Wholeheartedly. Except for the "What have they done to you, my poor friend?" line in Meat. It made me want to start singing Dylan's A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall.

Though I didn't care for End of Days, I liked what Chris Chibnall did with Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang. But I would.

[wiredblowfish.livejournal.com]

Funny, I have only watched those two episodes one time each. Just can't bring myself to watch them again.

I really liked the little girl from SW, but that was it. Couldn't stand the plot, the fairies. The complete lack of serial elements with regard to the team! That probably annoyed me the most.

I loath From Out of the Rain.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

There are things I like about "From Out of the Rain", but ... not much. I thought the Torchwood characters were out of character, all of them.

You know how some small detail can ruin your suspension of disbelief and keep you puzzling over the "why would he do that"? Well, forget that people walked in and out of celluloid with no explanation or rationale at all, let alone something that pretended to be logical - or even magical. Never mind that seven out of eight people died and they treated it like a happy ending.

No, what bothered me (and still does) is that Ianto, who was so excited about going to the cinema, took the rest of the Torchwood team with him, but didn't take Jack, and didn't even tell him where they were going. This made no sense to me. Jack wasn't busy - we see that later. It wasn't even a case of them inviting Jack along and him saying, "No, I'll mind the Hub, you go and see the movie without me" - Jack didn't know where they'd gone. Ianto was so excited over this renovated theatre and what it meant for the city, but never once mentioned it to Jack? Wasn't that the perfect opportunity for that thing Ianto had wanted so much - a date with Jack?

That just seemed wrong to me.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

my two least-favorite episodes

Yeah. Not my least favourites, but in my bottom few.

I liked all of "Meat", even that line.

I loved Captain John in "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang". Not thrilled with the plot, but very happy with the characters and the banter and the kiss and the fight. I'd like Captain Jack to show some of his magnanimous forgiveness to Captain John, though, and rekindle the flame.

[51stcenturyfox.livejournal.com]

...

...so would I!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

There's hope. Captain John is still alive, still around, still loving Jack. And Jack... whatever mixed feelings he may have, however focussed he may now be on other things and people, surely isn't indifferent to John.

We shall see what develops. Something, I hope.

[roxygirl880829.livejournal.com]

Noel Clarke wrote Combat?!?! OMG HOW DID I NOT NOTICE THAT????

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Noel Clarke wrote Combat?

Yes. And he wrote if beautiful. Give that man more scripts!

I don't know why you didn't notice. I was so very impressed I never forgot.

[fairyd123.livejournal.com]

Interesting. I'm not sure I entirely agree. I thought Cath Tregenna's first series episodes were strong but found both Adam and Meat really quite weak. Granted the stories weren't helped by some variable acting from the regular cast but Adam and Meat both had huge plot holes, some unpleasant conceipts (The non-con undertones of the Adam/Tosh relationship for example and the fact that she played to negative stereotypes by depicting a stronger more assertive Tosh as a real bitch) and scenes which actively make me wince when I watch them (The "what have they done to you my friend" sequence in Meat and the embarassing Jack as Jesus saviour of team Torchwood scene in Adam).

I agree that James Moran's Sleeper was good although the endless one liners he gave Ianto rather come out of nowhere - one or two would have been fine - a complete script of the was overkill.

I'm afraid I disagree where Noel Clarke is concerned - Combat is one of the few episodes I've never re-watched - fight club with weevils - far too deriative and dull for my tastes. I also thought Joseph Lidster's A Day in the Death was superb and for me the best episode of the second series. The writing was very strong and coupled with Burn Gorman delivering an acting masterclass it took the series to new heights. I wasn't at all a fan of the Martha arc - for me Freema's appearance was completely shoehorned in and derailed the entire team dynamic so for me A Day in the Death finished that arc on a high and got the series back on track.

I love They Keep Killing Suzie but I suspect the reason its all over the place is that it is meant to be the one episode that was significantly rewritten by RTD and so is quite uneven in terms of tone.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I entirely agree.

It would be an amazing thing in fandom if we found anything for everyone to agree on. I think it would mean the end of the world or something. [g]

found both Adam and Meat really quite weak

While I totally loved them, found them very strong in both plot and characterization. My favourite episodes of series 2, quite definitely.

Adam and Meat both had huge plot holes

What are you thinking of? I didn't think the plots had as many holes as usual.

The "what have they done to you my friend" sequence in Meat

I liked that. Certainly didn't have a problem with it. There are many Torchwood lines that make me wince, but not that!

the embarassing Jack as Jesus saviour of team Torchwood scene in Adam

Compared to the Jack as Jesus saviour in "End of Days"? I loved the way it was handled in "Adam". The only part I didn't much like about "Adam" was the casting of the boy who played the young Jack, whom I found very unlike Jack in just about any way I can imagine. So I just imagine him replaced with a young John Barrowman.

the endless one liners he gave Ianto rather come out of nowhere - one or two would have been fine

Yes. It wasn't a good Ianto.

Combat is one of the few episodes I've never re-watched - fight club with weevils - far too deriative and dull for my tastes.

I liked it far more than some other episodes. It had real characterization and structure, and compassion for Weevils, and the "Fight Club" pastiche was done with a new twist or two. I liked a lot of things about it, especially the action sequences with Tosh. I actually liked Owen in that one, which is rare for me.

Joseph Lidster's A Day in the Death was superb

It's the one I cringe to watch again. I have watched it, several times, each time hoping to like it more, each time failing to like it at all. Makes me twitch.

Freema's appearance was completely shoehorned in

Yes, very disappointing. They could have done so much more with her. In the end I wasn't even sure why they needed or wanted her.

I thought the series never really picked up after "Reset", though "Fragments" had great bits and I like a lot of "Adrift".

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

I agree completely about Catherine Treganna, although I didn't think her S2 episodes were as strong as S1. She seemed to realize that characters have depth, layers, and strove to show us those layers in ways we haven't seen before. (Doesn't knowing that Jack convinced his best friend into joining up to fight and then having to listen to him die really explains a LOT about who Jack is and why he does the things he does?)

I have to say I really disliked Noel Clarke's "Combat" though. Mostly because the insta-love Owen had for Diane and his devastation he felt at her leaving never held true to me. tptb needed to sell me on it and didn't. Previously, Owen had always been a love 'em and leave 'em guy (as seen from his opening salvo in "Everything Changes" to the vague mention of his affair with Susie to his affair with Gwen...) I never believed he'd just fall like that for someone, especially enough to want/risk ending his life over her.

I did enjoy Peter J. Hammond's episodes, "Small Worlds" more so than "Out of the Rain" but both provided innocent snippets into Jack's part. Again, I thought the S1 episode flowed better, but both had the necessary creepy/odd villain and I really liked SW's fact that the right answer/solution isn't the easy one (although the team's reaction, especially Gwen's still baffles me)

{and, personally, I stick Jacquetta May and "Random Shoes" into that LALALA fingers-in-ears never thinking about it again category)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I agree completely about Catherine Treganna, although I didn't think her S2 episodes were as strong as S1.

I agree with that. Wholeheartedly.

She seemed to realize that characters have depth, layers, and strove to show us those layers in ways we haven't seen before.

And did it beautifully.

Doesn't knowing that Jack convinced his best friend into joining up to fight and then having to listen to him die really explains a LOT about who Jack is and why he does the things he does?

That was wonderful. It answered so many questions (like how Jack became a soldier in the first place, and why), and illustrated his personality so well - his sense of responsibility, his protectiveness, his admiration for soldiers, his refusal to give up, his sense of guilt.

I did like the villains in "Out of the Rain". And Jasmine was interesting in "Small Worlds" but I didn't really enjoy the episode at a visceral level.

I really liked SW's fact that the right answer/solution isn't the easy one (although the team's reaction, especially Gwen's still baffles me)

Seemed rather out of character to, or just... strained.

I stick Jacquetta May and "Random Shoes" into that LALALA fingers-in-ears never thinking about it again category

And you know what? If you do that, it makes no difference to anything. That episode really had nothing to do with Torchwood and nothing to do with any of the characters, even Gwen. It was all about a character we never heard of before and will never hear of again. There are things I liked about it as a story, and I will probably watch it again some day, but it was entirely beside the point.

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

It answered so many questions (like how Jack became a soldier in the first place, and why), and illustrated his personality so well - his sense of responsibility, his protectiveness, his admiration for soldiers, his refusal to give up, his sense of guilt.

That sense of guilt is almost a theme for Jack, isn't it? We saw it in CJH, in Adam, in Fragments, over and over- it's a defining part of his personality.

The villains in "Out of the Rain" were excellent, the acting, the costumes, the mannerisms, the lighting... but it didn't add up to a stellar episode unfortunately.

And you know what? If you do that, it makes no difference to anything.
That's a good point. It was Torchwood's version of the Doctorlite episodes "Blink" and "Love and Monsters" they can be done well (I thought "Blink" was amazing) but they don't really add anything to the canon and character development.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

That sense of guilt is almost a theme for Jack, isn't it? We saw it in CJH, in Adam, in Fragments, over and over- it's a defining part of his personality.

And don't forget the big part it played in "The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances", where Jack initially tried to claimed the situation wasn't his fault - then realized it was. And took responsibility to the point of being ready to die to fix things.

it's a defining part of his personality.

I like the way they've handled that. It makes sense of the story of Gray in a way other things don't. (Not that the story otherwise makes sense, but that part does.)

The villains in "Out of the Rain" were excellent, the acting, the costumes, the mannerisms, the lighting... but it didn't add up to a stellar episode unfortunately.

It wouldn't have taken much to make me happy with it. A little more in-character dialogue, more sense of closeness between Jack and Ianto - I know some fans see it there, but I mostly see it as lacking. Maybe more attempts to make sense of it all? It had such great acting, character, setting, mood - but no subtance.

It was Torchwood's version of the Doctorlite episodes "Blink" and "Love and Monsters" they can be done well (I thought "Blink" was amazing)

I loved both those episodes, especially "Blink". They have nothing to excuse themselves for. In "Love and Monsters" I loved the exterior view of the Doctor, and the characterization of Jackie, and Rose's fierce protectiveness of her mother. "Random Shoes" didn't hit any of those buttons because... Maybe it's because "Love and Monsters", though it told the story of Elton, it was really all about the Doctor - how the Doctor's existence had shaped and affected Elton's life. In "Random Shoes", nothing that happened to Eugene would have been any different if Torchwood hadn't existed. The only difference is that he wouldn't have had a crush on Gwen, but since she barely knew he existed till after he died, that didn't mean much at all. So it wasn't a bad story, but it was all Eugene's story, not Torchwood's, not even Gwen's - just her point of view.

Waste of screentime, really.

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

And don't forget the big part it played in "The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances", where Jack initially tried to claimed the situation wasn't his fault - then realized it was. And took responsibility to the point of being ready to die to fix things.

oh yes- the scene where Jack realizes what he's done? That "Oh, god" He looks SO shaken.

Yes- "Out of the Rain" is one of those episodes that were so close to being good, an extra line here and bit of exposition there and *bam* it would have been wonderful.

Waste of screentime, really.

Absolutely.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

the scene where Jack realizes what he's done? That "Oh, god" He looks SO shaken.

I love that moment.

"Out of the Rain" is one of those episodes that were so close to being good, an extra line here and bit of exposition there and *bam* it would have been wonderful.

Yeah. I wish we could just rewrite it, fix it somehow. Not as fanfic but as the story it might have been.

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

Rewrite the episode, keeping 80% of it exactly the same and just fixing the rest? Yes, that would be a wonderful thing to read.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Or to see. Alas, we don't have that kind of world-altering (or tv-show-altering) powers. Nice to think about, though.

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

If only we had those sorts of powers *dreams*

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Yes. Sigh. Fanfic is as close as we'll get to it.

[tigercheetah.livejournal.com]

PJ Hammond was definately the worst offender when it came to a lack of character consistancy. The characters could have been played by any actors in the country and it wouldn't have made any difference to the overall story. From Out of the Rain had so much potential but alas.

Chris Chibnall varies wildly. I found Adrift and KKBB to be very enjoyable but Exit Wounds for me was a total mess. Only the deaths of Owen and Tosh were done well in that episode.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

The characters could have been played by any actors in the country and it wouldn't have made any difference to the overall story.

Yup. And the lack of anything that made the characters distinctively themselves was glaringly obvious. I kept thinking, "Why are they acting this way?"

From Out of the Rain had so much potential but alas.

Sigh. It did. And the glimpses of Jack in the 1930s should have been compelling. Instead I just that - "Huh?" And why say he wasn't working for Torchwood at the time? If that meant anything, I missed the meaning. If it was meaningless, why say it?

Exit Wounds for me was a total mess. Only the deaths of Owen and Tosh were done well in that episode.

I agree absolutely.

[wiredblowfish.livejournal.com]

I haven't really thought about the writers that much. It is something that I have meant to spend time analyzing.

But I have to agree about Catherine Treganna: with the exception of Noel Clarke's Combat, the four episodes she wrote were the best written both for characterization and narrative excellence.

And I find KKBB and Everything Changes endlessly entertaining.

For some reason Sleeper annoys and bores me. It seems humorless, plodding and uncharming.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I have to agree about Catherine Treganna

She was just so good. Character, structure, plotting, motivation, everything.

I find KKBB and Everything Changes endlessly entertaining.

Yes. For many reasons - including that Jack is just so much fun there.

For some reason Sleeper annoys and bores me.

It depresses me. I liked it as a story but I find it too intense and sad to want to watch it again. The deaths of Owen and Tosh, I find far easier to handle than the fate of Beth.

[kaimu-art.livejournal.com]

I'm actually willing to cut Chibnall some slack for "Adrift", "Fragments" and even "Cyberwoman". Especially "Fragments" since it cleared up a lot of issues I had with Tosh, Jack, and (to a lesser extent) Ianto. And watching Tosh in CJH is a delight when knowing her past. (Though admittedly GBG doesn't make much sense now...) His two weakest episodes are both final episodes, and so perhaps it's more about writing a finale then general writing.

Paul Tomalin and Dan McCulloch for "They Keep Killing Suzie";
TKKS is something that has all the makings of a good episode, but in the end made me feel unsympathetic to all the characters.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I'm actually willing to cut Chibnall some slack for "Adrift", "Fragments" and even "Cyberwoman".

Why "even Cyberwoman"? That was my favourite of the three - I loved "Cyberwoman" very much indeed. I'd say "Adrift" was the slightly iffy one there, and I liked it, too.

Especially "Fragments" since it cleared up a lot of issues I had with Tosh, Jack, and (to a lesser extent) Ianto.

It cleared up some issues for me, and raised others. I don't buy Owen's story, but that's okay, I rather liked it anyway.

Why does "Greeks Bearing Gifts" make less sense after "Fragments"? I don't follow.

I think Chibnall should get someone else to write his final episodes. But - awful though they were - my gripe with Chibnall is not about any one particularly bad episode, it's about his shaping of the story arcs in general and his lack of oversight on character and continuity issues.

TKKS is something that has all the makings of a good episode, but in the end made me feel unsympathetic to all the characters.

Except for the ending - Gwen, Jack, Ianto, and the stopwatch scene - I agree. No one was at their best. And I don't think the plot made much sense. Over-elaborate and under-motivated. Besides, I was horrendously disappointed - I'd wanted Suzie to come back as someone sympathetic, another Torchwood hero.

[kaimu-art.livejournal.com]

Why "even Cyberwoman"?
Because for Cyberwoman, it seemed to take until "Fragments" for me to really buy Jack's anger in that one, especially when compared to how he reacted when other members of the team betrayed him. I understood Ianto's motivation, Lisa/Cyberman's motivations perfectly but it took me awhile to get Jack's.

Why does "Greeks Bearing Gifts" make less sense after "Fragments"?
A woman that knows Tosh's life history comes up to her, away from work, and gives her alien technology. If that wasn't setting off warning bells and flashbacks in Tosh's head at the time, especially after what she went through, I don't know what would've.
Sure she was uncomfortable, but Tosh still seems far too trusting in GBG for someone with the backstory of having a kidnapped family member and forced to turn traitor.
I love "Greeks Bearing Gifts", actually prefer it much more to "To The Last Man" in terms of Tosh, but Fragments makes me question her naivete shown in GBG.

Except for the ending
I was spoiled for the ending, it's what I kept telling myself would be my reward for sticking through the rest of it. By the time Suzie died the second time I just wanted her to shut up. Not what I wanted from Suzie either.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I understood Ianto's motivation, Lisa/Cyberman's motivations perfectly but it took me awhile to get Jack's.

I see. Jack is always, always easy for me to understand, except the one or two times I think he's wildly out of character. I felt I understood him here, except I wasn't, at the time, sure why he kissed Ianto. I think I understand the kiss now. (Should maybe write about it.)

Put at its most simple: I don't think Jack was angry with Ianto, but he was trying to make Ianto see the terrible danger the Cyberwoman represented. I think Jack panicked because he saw the danger only too clearly.

Tosh still seems far too trusting in GBG for someone with the backstory of having a kidnapped family member and forced to turn traitor.

Good point.

I love "Greeks Bearing Gifts", actually prefer it much more to "To The Last Man" in terms of Tosh

I do too, mostly because I found Mary intriguing and sexy and I thought Tommy dreary and sad. Ditto the respective storylines.


By the time Suzie died the second time I just wanted her to shut up.

Yes - "die and stay dead, already!"

[holdingoff.livejournal.com]

PJ Hammond is something of a relic in BBC writing circles. I think he received the nod for two stories more because of who he is rather than the actual skills brought to the table. It was later mentioned that both of the stories he brought to TW were pre-existing works that were given TW wrappers. Not an uncommon thing when you're talking about a writer with 40+ years of work under his belt.

For me, the least effective TW stories are those that move the primary focus away from the TW cast as an ensemble and onto 3rd party characters or overly focus on a single character. Random Shoes is the worst offender, but many TW stories might as well be renamed "Gwen discovers X, Y, Z" or "Jack hides secret A, B, C"

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

PJ Hammond is something of a relic in BBC writing circles.

Yes. Even I recognized his name.

It was later mentioned that both of the stories he brought to TW were pre-existing works that were given TW wrappers.

I hadn't known that, but that was exactly how it felt. The story could have been about any team of heroes. No one was particularly in character. They seemed totally generic.

I would say that I like it when the story focuses primarily on Jack, but there's only been on episode that really did that, and gave us Jack's point of view - "Captain Jack Harkness". I wish they'd do that more. But that's only because I love Jack so much, and always want more, and am always disappointed when he is relegated to the sidelines, as in "A Day in the Death" or "Random Shoes".

[topgeargirl2.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed To the Last Man actually.

something borrowed was weird for me.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

something borrowed was weird for me.

I thought so too. It was a silly episode, bordering on comedy - I don't relate well to those. Most fans seem to like it better than I do.

[wiredblowfish.livejournal.com]

I'm right with you regarding SB. While the humor in Torchwood can be silly or bawdy sometimes, I never found it broad--except in SB.

I felt the humor was a little insulting to the audience in Something Borrowed. I felt like that episode "jumped the shark."

Random Shoes also kind of jumped the shark, but the main character and his pathetic life was such a rare thing for television it made up for it for me.

Something I've noticed about TW, there is a cast, set and theme, but it can depart from those accustomed tropes and still be wonderful.

Re: Combat, that episode resonated with me to such a great extent. It had such great writing, acting and direction, I think perhaps some viewers just don't like Owen, and then can't be carried off by a story mostly about him.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

While the humor in Torchwood can be silly or bawdy sometimes, I never found it broad--except in SB.

They've always played around with genre and tone, which is one reason the show has such a random feel, and isn't very consistent - rather awkward sometimes. Imaginative, though. I don't mind, but I do like some of the genres they play with more than others. Their 'romantic comedy' tone was excellent with Jack and Ianto in "Fragments", but too broad here. Not that it didn't amuse me, at least in part. And I was glad Tosh wasn't pining over Owen in this one, but I didn't like her much here!

"Random Shoes" redeemed itself for me in that, given that I was watching a televised SF short story about someone I didn't care much about, it was a good story. It isn't what I wanted. It isn't what I watch Torchwood for. But it was a good story - well paced, well characterized. But watching it I asked myself, "Where's Jack?" every two minutes. Yeah, a bit obsessive, me.

Something I've noticed about TW, there is a cast, set and theme, but it can depart from those accustomed tropes and still be wonderful.

Yes. It's kept itself from formula, which is wonderful. Some episodes succeed more than others. That's fine with me.

Combat, that episode resonated with me to such a great extent. It had such great writing, acting and direction

Agreed. Good structure, too. Pacing. And nice subtleties.

I think perhaps some viewers just don't like Owen, and then can't be carried off by a story mostly about him.

I don't like Owen. Not much. I would have said I'd hate an episode that was all about him - and I did pretty much hate "A Day in the Death". But I loved "Combat" for dozens of reasons. Definitely on my 'favourites' list.

[wiredblowfish.livejournal.com]

Fajrdrako, I also meant to thank you for these discussions you have been posting. As much as I have become a fanfic lover, I have always wished there were more discussions.

I hope you will post more:)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Fajrdrako, I also meant to thank you for these discussions you have been posting.

That's so nice of you to say. You're welcome. I'm enjoying them, too.

I hope you will post more:)

I'd be happy to! Is there anything you'd like to hear me discuss? Any questions you'd like to ask? Good things, bad things?

I want to post and discuss more, but I don't want to do so when I have nothing to say - that would be kind of dull. I was wishing someone had a 'question of the week' thing going on - like they used to have with Supernatural LJ fandom - but I see now that the community died for lack of participation, so that doesn't move me to actually start one. If I can think of questions, maybe I'll do my own thing.... Or, hmm, I could even ask for questions and ideas. Or browse other LJs and comms for ideas.

I did a post once about why I love Gwen. I might do that with other characters, too. Or what I do/don't like about certain episodes. A defense of "Combat"?

Come to think of it... I've never heard anyone discuss out loud the way Torchwood uses (and abuses, heh) different storytelling styles and genres. I could talk about that.

[wiredblowfish.livejournal.com]

I like the idea of discussions about specific characters and specific episodes--that could be a discussion series.

" the way Torchwood uses (and abuses, heh) different storytelling styles and genres. I could talk about that."--that could be really fun to discuss as well.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Yes. There are so many angles, so many places a person could go with that.