Torchwood: The Villains..

[fajrdrako]

My top five favourite villains in Torchwood:

1. Bilis, played by Murray Melvin in "Captain Jack Harkness" and (less successfully) "End of Days". There's more to him than meets the eyes: he's creepy and smart at the same time. Mysterious: You don't know what he's up to, or why. And he's a time traveller like Jack. Or not like Jack. He's... something. Maybe not really evil, but inimical, untrustworthy, and strange.
   
   
2. Adam, played by Bryan Dick in "Adam". Attractive, ruthless, and dangerous. He messes with minds. He demands adoration. He wrecks lives without compunction, and yet he also seems to want to please.
   
   
3. Evan Sherman, played by Owen Teale in "Countrycide". Scary and ruthless, what I loved most about him was his glee in cruelty, his appetite for the fear of others, and his total lack of remorse. I love his last scene with Gwen, when she asks him why he did it. And I love Jack's rection: cold hate.
   
   
4. Mary, played by Daniela Denby-Ashe in "Greeks Bearing Gifts". You can tell I like the beautiful and ruthless ones. I don't understand her motivation, but that makes me intrigued rather than frustrated. Clever, seductive and quite alien in spirit. I loved seeing her alien form - we don't see much of that on Torchwood, and I am intrigued that Sarah Jane Smith has a friend of her race.
   
   
5. The Rift itself, in all episodes in which it is mentioned. A force of nature, random and uncontrollable. I particularly love it when the Rift moves and removes people in time.

I adore Captain John Hart, but I find myself totally unable to think of him as a villain. He's a lovable rogue.

So... what villains do you like best?

(Crossposted from torch_wood.)

Comments

[seanchaidh.livejournal.com]

Something that didn't get followed up in "End of Days" is that in "Captain Jack Harkness," Bilis had a Torchwood folder in 1941.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Yes - that was so intriguing! And Bilis returned in the novel Twilight Streets but I didn't feel that illuminated much. I'm hoping we'll see him again.

[seanchaidh.livejournal.com]

Or a fic or three. :)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes, please. And then some!

[topgeargirl2.livejournal.com]

I don't really have a favourite villain unless you count Captain John Hart as one? Though the real villain behind him was Grey so now I'm confused.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I think of Captain John as a hero. I added a line about him - he's too important to ignore!

[topgeargirl2.livejournal.com]

I don't see him as an hero either. I don't know why I just don't but I do adore him.

I liked Alan Dale's villain in Reset.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I don't know why I just don't but I do adore him.

Me too. And frankly, I buy his story about being forced by Gray to hurt Jack. He loves Jack and is badly screwed up, but I believe there's a person capable of redemption there.

Alan Dale - I almost listed him, because I liked him so much! But I wanted to say "The Rift" so he'd be my #6. He was magnificent. I love the long scene where Jack was baiting him, and I loved his callousness towards Martha.

[topgeargirl2.livejournal.com]

Alan Dales knows how to play the villain.

[51stcenturyfox.livejournal.com]

Hart = damaged and lovable rogue. We agree on that.

Billis falls into the category of "evil but I think I'm clever and right" which is scary in itself.

Adam just wanted to survive, but surely he could have survived without making Ianto into a supposed serial killer. The guy fooled JACK.

Evan, I agree.

Mary, yes. What was her motivation? I believe that she used Tosh but Mary also helped her in a bizarre sort of way. It would have been nice to see Tosh's personality change and become more... outgoing after the Mary encounter.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I don't see him as an hero either. I don't know why

Maybe because he doesn't act very heroic in the show?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Though the real villain behind him was Grey so now I'm confused.


We are all confused because the story was confusing. Because I love him, I'm happy to give John all the benefits of the doubt. I believe that he is screwed up by drugs, alcohol, and circumstances, and particularly by his (mostly-)unrequited love of Jack. But he is interesting, and redeemable, and even against his will is really on the side of the good guys.

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

Bilis is THE best villain. Suave. Cultured. Willing to wait and plan. I hope we haven't seen the last of him.

I'm curious- do you consider Susie a villian?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Bilis is THE best villain. Suave....I hope we haven't seen the last of him.

I agree absolutely!

do you consider Susie a villian?

Yes. But I liked her better when she wasn't a villain. I think Indira Varma is gorgeous and I wanted her redeemed.

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

I wish they'd tried to have some sort of redemption for Susie- in a way they chose the easy way out with painting her as *such* a life-sucking bad guy

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I was left very dissatisfied with Suzie, which is why she isn't on my list of favourites. She was in many ways fascinating, but I couldn't see the root personality there. "Life-sucking" is the word; was the Glove doing the sucking? If so, she was a tragedy, but not played as such.

I also wished we'd understood Jack's inner reactions to her better.

I wonder how she was recruited to Torchwood?

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

I really felt like they didn't bother to create any backstory or give Susie any depth because they just wanted her to fill the specific role they painted for her (if that makes sense).

We know she came to Torchwood (or tw3 anyway) no earlier than 2000, but why? What did she do before that? How did she become Jack's second in command? How close were she and Jack? Did Jack force her to use/practice with the glove? Was she interested in the glove for her own reasons? Did the glove alter her brain chemistry? Was she in a way a victim of the glove as well?

[louiex.livejournal.com]

I was always extremely fond of Adam and wished they gave him a two parter. Really ran with his rewriting of minds theme -as some fics have done- where he has several scenarios of what's the Torchwood 'norm' with role reversals and having people shack up with others they normally wouldn't, etc, etc.

Adam's interactions with Ianto may be my fav scenes from season two... like, ever. :D

Also? Yeah, I liked the theory that was Gray. The first, lets say about five minutes of Gray we saw. He could have been written as so much more malicious, so much more evil and cruel, but instead he was crammed into one-single episode and overshadowed by James Marsters. I wish they put more effort into Gray and made him either a reoccuring character or given him a series long -as opposed to bookending him- plot line.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Really ran with his rewriting of minds theme -as some fics have done- where he has several scenarios of what's the Torchwood 'norm' with role reversals and having people shack up with others they normally wouldn't, etc, etc.

That is such fun.

Adam's interactions with Ianto may be my fav scenes from season two... like, ever. :D

I like that, especially since it made possible Jack's interactions with Ianto in "Adam" - that episode has my favourite Jack/Ianto scenes. (Not that I don't like the hothouse, but "Adam" is hotter IMHO.)

I liked the theory that was Gray.

Uh-huh. It had great potential. It just never really went where it should have.

He could have been written as so much more malicious, so much more evil and cruel, but instead he was crammed into one-single episode and overshadowed by James Marsters.

And he was so busy being bad to the bone there was no real personality there.

I wish they put more effort into Gray and made him either a reoccuring character or given him a series long -as opposed to bookending him- plot line.

I agree. It could have been so good. As it was, Gray was disappointing.

[louiex.livejournal.com]

I agree. It could have been so good. As it was, Gray was disappointing.

It's true, and I understand they only have 13 episodes to go -truly the ONE downside of BBC series vs American based series, otherwise they're usually better- but I really wish they gave Gray more time. He had such an effect on Jack just by mentioning his name, let alone actually seeing him or interacting with him. Here's a character who, for example, instead of being the love everyone that Jack became as a product of his environment, became a hate everything sort; a true antithesis to Jack's 51st century 'flexible dancer' sort of character. There was SO much that could have been done with Gray that I was incredibly disappointed they used him to instead just quickly kill off two characters (still makes me wibble) and again, was upstaged by the is he/isn't he Hart.

Personally, and here is just my fannish glee of musing over this character who again, on paper and in theory, I really, really like Gray, I'd of rather given him an arc of episodes where the sub-plot was him interacting with those around Jack. Where he'd bump into Gwen or Owen on the street, try to turn them against Jack with that innate 51st seduction skill, yet toward evil as opposed to in his bed :D More one-on-one for scenery chewing that, in the end, would prove their loyalties to Jack in spite of his not being the best leader or most perfect person around. Gray seemed to know a lot about the team, LET HIM BE A DEVIOUS VILLAIN! *breathes*

Wow, that was a longer ramble than I expected :D Maybe if I'm clever I'll work this out of my system with a fic of that scenario~ One-on-one with the team, watching Gray give a quick proverbial stab and then twist the knife to see who could sway to his Dark Side.

[angelfireeast.livejournal.com]

I agreed. Wonderful post. Gray was big let down IMO. He should have been so much more and better written.

I also like you plan for Grey - hurting Jack.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

There's something about themes of brothers - brothers at odds, brothers killing one another, brothers loving one another - I tend to like to theme. Just as I like themes of fathers and sons. There was such potential to the story of Gray, and it just... led nowhere. Or led, rather, to Jack spending two thousand years underground, which I liked in a way, but seems an entirely different topic.

Of course, Gray is still alive and the story is yet to be resolved. Maybe if/when Grey is revived we'll have something more satisfying happen.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I really wish they gave Gray more time.

Yes, he needed more time, more thought, more personality. Obviously he meant a lot to Jack. As you say, he was in many ways an inverse of Jack - someone whose experiences had narrowed him (and possibly destroyed him) because of what had happened to him. But a "mindless-zombie-brother" theme isn't very compelling emotionally. It would be nice to keep him around.

By "around" I mean something like "loose in the universe, learning and plotting" - not "in a drawer to be ignored". The story needs some sort of resolution. As it is, it has just been... put on hold, with Gray neither alive nor dead.

The deaths of Tosh and Owen were very moving. They deserved the whole episode to themselves. Gray wasn't really part of their stories, except to kill them for no particular reason.

I like your Gray-related plot ideas.

[angelfireeast.livejournal.com]

I don't count John Hart as villein either. He toes the line - I think lovable rogue at the end of season two.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Yup, lovable rogue. I wouldn't want him to turn good - even the way Owen turned good in series 2; I thought Owen was more interesting in series 1. But I would like to see Captain John doing good things in spite of himself.