Torchwood: 10 Reasons I love Gwen Cooper...

[fajrdrako]

Though many Torchwood fans dislike her, I love Gwen Cooper for a lot of reasons - including both her flaws and her virtues. I was happy to see house_of_cooper featuring a Gwen Cooper/Eve Myles love-in.

What's your favourite Gwen moment in Torchwood (or Doctor Who)? Or top three?

1. A collection of moments with a theme: Gwen in the in her uniform in the rain watching Jack and the Torchwood team at the beginning of "Everything Changes". Or chasing after Jack at the hospital. Or using her judgement and authority with the Cardiff police in "Exit Wounds". I love Gwen being a cop.
   
   
2. Just about any scene in which Gwen is with PC Andy. Especially her meeting with him outside the club in "Day One", when he learns that she's with Torchwood and is giving him orders.
   
   
3. Gwen snogging the sex alien in "Day One", and her later conversation about it with Jack and Toshiko.
   
   
4. Gwen grieving for Rhys and having her hands washed by Jack in "End of Days"; then attacking him and weeping.
   
   
5. The shooting gallery scene in "Ghost Machine".

In the interests of honesty (and revealing myself here as utterly shallow), I have a particular fondness of the scene of Gwen using her computer in her lingerie in "Everything Changes" where she is just so sexy and cute.

What's been your favourite Eve role? Gwen Cooper.

What's your favourite Gwen-orientated fic you've read? No answers to this spring to mind. Suggestions welcome. Most fic writers I've been reading either don't like her, or don't feature her.

Any favourite pictures? PC Cooper, Curious...




Let me add: 10 Reasons I love Gwen Cooper

1. She takes responsibility for her mistakes, and learns from them.
   
2. She's driven by curiosity and compassion.
   
3. She's honest, and says what she thinks.
   
4. She loves Jack, but doesn't mind opposing him when it seems appropriate.
   
5. She loves two men, and is handling it to the best of her abilities.
   
6. She likes sex. A lot.
   
7. She's a good friend to Ianto, especially in series 2.
   
8. She's cute in uniform.
   
9. She is willing to be convinced she's wrong.
   
10. She risks her life to save others, without hesitation.

Comments

[rustydog.livejournal.com]

Good lists!

Gwen in the in her uniform in the rain watching Jack and the Torchwood team at the beginning of "Everything Changes".

I think I kind of fell in love with her right when she was standing there in that adorable hat in the pouring rain. :) She really is cute in uniform. I think that's why she's wearing her Police vest whenever she appears in my cartoons.

I've probably mentioned this before, but a lot of my favorite moments are when she gets really emotional and her accent gets thicker. I admire her passion.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I think I kind of fell in love with her right when she was standing there in that adorable hat in the pouring rain. :)

Yes, me too. I can't explain it. I don't even understand it. But I love it. She looked so wet and intrigued - and I liked the whole business with the coffee. (The beginning of a theme!)

She really is cute in uniform.

Yes. I really wish we could see her in uniform more... But it wouldn't make sense for Torchwood people to wear uniforms.

I think that's why she's wearing her Police vest whenever she appears in my cartoons.

I heartily approve!

a lot of my favorite moments are when she gets really emotional and her accent gets thicker. I admire her passion.

I like that, too. And her voice changes pitch.

[trixtah.livejournal.com]

11. That little gap in her teeth (and the rest of her) is HAWT.

Thank you for the Gwen love!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

That little gap in her teeth (and the rest of her) is HAWT

Oh yes. And sometimes she smiles a certain way that I just love. I really like her sense of humour.

Thank you for the Gwen love!

Hey, my pleasure!

[ceindreadh.livejournal.com]

She takes responsibility for her mistakes, and learns from them.

But does she though? It seems to me like Gwen hardly ever seems to face up to the consequences of her actions. She wants absolution without having to do pennance, that's why she Retcons Rhys before she even confesses to him about her affair. She wants him to forgive her, but she doesn't want to have to live with him knowing about her mistake.

I also think that she's selfish beyond belief. Look at her in Something Borrowed. She was willing to lie to her parents about being pregnant, knowing that she'd have to lie to them about losing a baby, and it took her half the episode to cop on that this would be a bad idea?

(sorry, I didn't mean to rant on this, and I think that part of my dislike of the character stems from the way that the production staff, writers, producers etc seem to think that Gwen can do no wrong, and that we're supposed to think she's great, and then they write her like they do)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

But does she though? It seems to me like Gwen hardly ever seems to face up to the consequences of her actions.

She does. In "Day One" she's ready to sacrifice herself to the sex alien in Carys' place because she feels it was her fault it got loose. In "Ghost Machine" she tries to protect Bernie because she thinks she endangered him. In "Sleeper" she puts herself at risk for Beth. In "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang" she's ready to take on Captain John (even if she fails). There are plenty of instances of her facing consequences, even at risk to herself.

She wants absolution without having to do pennance, that's why she Retcons Rhys before she even confesses to him about her affair.

Not her finest moment, no. I'd love to see that scene replayed without the Retcon. Does Rhys know about her affair with Owen, even now? Probably not.

She wants him to forgive her, but she doesn't want to have to live with him knowing about her mistake.

I think she is too afraid of losing him. Not admirable, but I confess, I find it somewhat endearing rather than despicable. I wish she'd told him, but don't mind that she didn't.

I also think that she's selfish beyond belief.

Many do! Clearly you see a different Gwen than the one I see.

She was willing to lie to her parents about being pregnant, knowing that she'd have to lie to them about losing a baby, and it took her half the episode to cop on that this would be a bad idea?

She didn't do it. She had lots of crazy ideas in that episode. So did others. Not the best episode when it comes to characterization, in my opinion. On the whole, I liked her relationship with her parents; you could tell they'd had quite a time coping with Gwen the Terrible over the years. Their own wild child. I thought it was also clear that they loved her a lot.

I think that part of my dislike of the character stems from the way that the production staff, writers, producers etc seem to think that Gwen can do no wrong

I don't like that either. None of the Torchwood characters are saints, and she's had her share of bad writing, which puts fans off even more. And in fandom, as in life, we like who we like, love who we love, and it's all subjective anyway. I tend to be forgiving of Gwen's flaws and condemn Owen's, while Owen has, I know, a lot of fans who like him. And I liked him story-wise, just not as a person. As with you and Gwen - I had the impression we were supposed to think Owen was edgy and bad in a sexy way, when he wasn't. There was a cognitive misfire there.

Your cognitive misfire with Gwen makes you dislike her. Fair enough. But not too much dissing Gwen on my LJ, okay? It gets to me when people do it too much.

[luniasta.livejournal.com]

As I don't really like Gwen, it's pretty obvious I don't agree with many things you've written here (like Gwen who is willing to learn she's wrong, as if, she's always so bloody convinced she's right or her will to die to save the world - which is sth necessary to get the job in the first place so everybody does it so it's not exactly sth unique for her; but I could agree with some other points, so it's not this bad, I guess), I'm really curious about your 7th reason why you love her. HOW exactly she's being a good friend to Ianto? I'd say that yes, she likes him, but she likes everyone, I wouldn't go so far as to say she likes him more than others or is more supportive than others are. He just is there (and steals her Jack :D) and she's being nice. Any particular scenes in your mind made you write this point? I'm asking as big, great, horrible, unreformable canon!Ianto fangirl, not as Gwen-basher. Just curious.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

As I don't really like Gwen, it's pretty obvious I don't agree with many things you've written here

Yup. Mileage varies. Obviously. My Gwen is not your Gwen and vice versa. I find it fascinating how people can watch the same character do the same things and the same show and come to entirely different conclusions about it.

HOW exactly she's being a good friend to Ianto? I'd say that yes, she likes him, but she likes everyone, I wouldn't go so far as to say she likes him more than others or is more supportive than others are.... Any particular scenes in your mind made you write this point?

Yes, several. It occurred to me when I wrote that, that I was probably being cryptic or unclear, but I wasn't sure how to say it. Let me try.

Basically I said it because I like the scenes Gwen has with Ianto, and the interchanges between them. The way she smiles when she talks to him, as if she enjoys his company. Sometimes (as in "Adrift") they conspire against Jack together, probably intending it to be for his own good, though their motives are not explained.

He just is there (and steals her Jack :D) and she's being nice.

And there you put your finger on a detail I really love, and one of the things I love Gwen for. Ninety-nine times out of a hundred in TV shows, if two characters love the same person, there's a jealousy-based love triangle going on. Both Gwen and Ianto love Jack, and Ianto's the one Jack chose as his lover. I see no shred of jealousy on Gwen's part - I see every indication that she not only accepts but likes the Jack/Ianto relationship, thinks they are cute together, maybe even gets a bit of vicarious thrill from it. And she is happy to know they are happy together, because that's what she wants them to be. I like this in all ways.

[doyle_sb4.livejournal.com]

Excellent post. It's a bit depressing how little quality Gwen fic there seems to be around, though.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Excellent post.

Thank you!

It's a bit depressing how little quality Gwen fic there seems to be around, though.

Yes... I'm trying to rectify that. The last Gwen story I posted was Friendship (http://fajrdrako.livejournal.com/964941.html#cutid1). I'm working on one now, and plotting a Gwen/Tosh fic.

I'd love to see more.

[liliaeth]

I like your reasons for loving Gwen. It's weird how often fans seem to be unforgiving of mistakes made by a female character, yet when those same mistakes get made by a male character, they're easily forgiven.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I like your reasons for loving Gwen.

I'm glad!

It's weird how often fans seem to be unforgiving of mistakes made by a female character, yet when those same mistakes get made by a male character, they're easily forgiven.

Do you think that's the pattern? I find myself most likely to be unforgiving of Owen, but it's so easy to forgive Jack... I can hardly see his flaws.

[talkingtothesky]

I am memming this post, thanks for really cheering me up with it! It makes me sad that so little Gwen fic gets written.

It's Gwen's mistakes, particularly in Adrift, that make me love her even more. She feels a lot more real to me than say, Ianto does because (from what I can see, and apart from the Lisa thing, obviously) he hardly ever gets things wrong.

I sheepishly admit to rewatching the computer scene a few times. I too am very shallow. :P

Anyway, thanks for the lovely post!

(Here via the [Bad username or site: @ livejournal.com] newsletter thingy, in case you were wondering.)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

thanks for really cheering me up with it!

You're welcome!

It makes me sad that so little Gwen fic gets written.

Me too. I'm trying to do something about that. The last fic I posted ("Friendship" (http://fajrdrako.livejournal.com/964941.html#cutid1)) was about her; I hope to write and post more.

It's Gwen's mistakes, particularly in Adrift, that make me love her even more.

On the whole, I agree. I like the way she was written in that.

She feels a lot more real to me than say, Ianto does because ... he hardly ever gets things wrong.

I find him less explained, less clear. We seldom get Ianto's point of view ("Cyberwoman" was an exception) and that leaves us, as fans, to fill in the holes as to what sort of person he is, helped with Jack's point of view. So I don't feel I have a strong sense of what makes Ianto tick, even when I know his motivation. It makes him easy to write, because the characterization can go any number of ways - which is also why different fans write Ianto with such diverging approaches. But the 'understanding' of the character comes from the fan writers, not from the show. With Ianto,
fanon rules, not canon.


I sheepishly admit to rewatching the computer scene a few times. I too am very shallow. :P

So it isn't just me! Yay! I was having a hard time finding screencaps of that scene. Must make caps myself. That can be one of my weekend projects.

Anyway, thanks for the lovely post!

Delighted that you enjoyed it, and glad you dropped by.

[lone-star-woman.livejournal.com]

"She feels a lot more real to me than say, Ianto does because (from what I can see, and apart from the Lisa thing, obviously) he hardly ever gets things wrong."

Unfortunately, Ianto has been seriously neglected in both seasons so that may be why he doesn't seem as real.

However, Ianto has his flaws. Yes, he's a master of efficiency, but he can be fragile (like in "Lost Souls") and jealous. Some fans find him boring. He is also a highly guarded person who seems to use his formal mannerisms to keep people at arm's length. Just look at the way he treats John, Emma and Diane in Out of Time. He's cordial, but not friendly. Me? I can relate to putting up armor.

But you know, even though he can appear stoic, there is a lot happening on his face. Personally, I happen to like people who are more subtle. They always seem more real to me than more extroverted types.

[lefaym.livejournal.com]

WORD. :)

Especially this:
Gwen grieving for Rhys and having her hands washed by Jack in "End of Days"; then attacking him and weeping.

Eve Myles's acting was amazing in that episode-- some of the best that we've seen in Torchwood IMO. It tends to get overshadowed by the ludicrous CGI that was Abbadon, which is a damn shame because that whole sequence with Rhys's death was just amazing. The part when she looks up and smiles at them all, her face completely white, and tells them that they're all going to end up alone never fails to make me shiver.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Eve Myles's acting was amazing in that episode-- some of the best that we've seen in Torchwood IMO.

I think so too. I think each character has had at least one episode to shine - Gwen in "End of Days", Owen in "Out of Tim", Ianto in "Adam". I don't like most of "End of Days" because of Abaddon and the dumb story, but it does have magnificent scenes and Gwen's is one of the best. The scene right before that, down in the cells, was marvellous, too.

[51stcenturyfox.livejournal.com]

I love Gwen.

Two points of Gwen love:

- She was willing to let the alien afflicting Carys come into HER in Day One. Nobody else offered.

- She crawled under pointy shards of perilously dangling glass to assist Owen in Fragments.

So that's two times she's risked death for other people. That's selfless. Part of that is having been a PC, but it's still brave.

I liked Buffy as well, and Dana Scully. Strong female characters rock.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I love Gwen.

Yay!

She was willing to let the alien afflicting Carys come into HER in Day One. Nobody else offered.

Absolutely. Even though it would probably have meant a quick, unpleasant death.

She crawled under pointy shards of perilously dangling glass to assist Owen in Fragments.

Which was wonderful, and scary. Even though I've watched it a bunch of times and know they're all right, it's still scary.

That's selfless. Part of that is having been a PC, but it's still brave.

Oh, I agree. I don't see her as selfish at all. She's sometimes foolish and sometimes reckless, but I don't understand why some fans think she's selfish. (Because they think she doesn't treat Rhys properly, maybe?)

Strong female characters rock.

I agree.

[namastenancy.livejournal.com]

I've loved this discussion on Gwen. I liked her character too but did think that the writers missed the boat on several occasions. But then, they did that with both Tosh and Owen which I put down to there not being a central "unification" theory about the series. As soon as they got the series pulled together, they started killing off the characters. But then, I saw the show as an ensemble piece and not just the Jack loves Ianto show.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Something I think the show couldn't make up its mind whether it was an ensemble piece or not. Which is a pity. It was sometimes glaringly obvious that they didn't have a direction for the characters - sometimes more than others. In series 1, I was impressed by the story arc given to Owen, where his character developed and changed over the course of the episodes in a very interesting way. In series 2, he was all over the map, different from episode to episode. That's just an example - the characterization is inconsistent for everyone, though not so badly as to ruin the show. Just enough to be confusing or awkward.

I blame Chris Chibnall, who should have put more unity and structure into the show.

On the other hand, with a 5-episode miniseries next year, they will probably do exactly that.

[aeron-lanart.livejournal.com]

You know what I love about Gwen (and Eve)? Freckles!!! Lovely freckles!
As a character she annoys the hell out of me a lot of the time, but I like her despite that. She cares about people, and causes, and *things*, but isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination and I think that is why I like her.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Freckles!!! Lovely freckles!

Oh yeah. Those freckles are adorable.

Yes, I too like her combinations of annoying and caring and imperfection. I like the way she can be courageous and foolish by turns.

[51stcenturyfox.livejournal.com]

Since I hated my pale self and freckles as a child, gee, that's heartening!

Oh, I would add that I love Gwen she also is fail at tanning. Hey.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Since I hated my pale self and freckles as a child, gee, that's heartening!

Well, then! Gwen's freckles are incredibly attractive.

[rabecka.livejournal.com]

I'll admit I'm not a Gwen fan, though, most times I don't hate her either. It's just that for me, several scenes where I really disliked her tend to overwhelm others. I did like her in the scenes you listed.

However... there have been rather a lot of scenes where I loved the photos. Yup, Eve does photograph well. And just for you, I added 9 new Gwen icons - look under the "Requested Icons" cut on my top message. And there's an icon from 1x01 of Gwen in the rain, that I adore, a few messages down (tw_hush challange icons). Not to mention the Something Borrowed collection. That scene where she's ranting at Jack while downing pickles is one of my favorites.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Oh, thank you so much! I love them - especially the 'Teagirl' one, but they're all wonderful.

The scenes where I tend to dislike Gwen - no, that'st he wrong word, I never actually dislike her, but there are times I groan and want to scream, "Gwen, how can you be so stupid?" Example: taking Suzie on a nighttime drive when she was in custody. Is that any way for a cop to act?

But I forgive her easily because I like her.

Yes, she rants well. [g]

[theohsocurlyone.livejournal.com]

Am so glad the love-in worked; I was getting sick of stumbling across bile and it's nice to indulge in the love. Both Gwen and Eve deserve it!

I love all your moments; we really didn't see enough of her as a copper and she's clearly a brilliant one. Exit Wounds really showed that and I hope we see it again.

Gwen's so incredibly raw; when she's passionate about something it takes over her and she feels it so strongly, we feel it. She doesn't bottle it up, she lets it go and it's harrowing to watch, sometimes. Eve's acting is breathtaking.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

it's nice to indulge in the love. Both Gwen and Eve deserve it!

I think so.

we really didn't see enough of her as a copper and she's clearly a brilliant one

"Exit Wounds" shows off her skills well, and so does "Adrift". I loved it that PC Andy turned to her for help. I hope we see more of that kind of thing.

Gwen's so incredibly raw; when she's passionate about something it takes over her and she feels it so strongly, we feel it.

I love that. No half measures.

[kaimu.livejournal.com]

yeay Gwen love! I'm only a recent convert to Gwen, as I went from severely disliking her in series 1 to loving her in series 2, but now I think she's a wonderful character, flaws and all, and is becoming even better each time we see her.

(I love your 10 reasons I love... thing, would it be ok if I borrowed the idea and did one of my own?)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I went from severely disliking her in series 1 to loving her in series 2,

How wonderful! I'm glad you did. I haven't heard of any fans changing over like that before. But then, I went from disliking Owen, to liking him, to disliking him again - so opinions do change.

I'd be delighted if you made your "10 reasons" list. I'd like to see it!