Guards! Guards!

[fajrdrako]

Today I finished listening to Guards! Guards! by Terry Pratchett, while doing exercises. Then I listened to a good part of it again, while cooking. Then I listened to it as an audio-play, thanks to a tip by filkferengi.

Loved it - Pratchett just gets better and better as I continue. I hadn't read any of the City Guard books before, but I knew from friends that Vimes was worth reading about.

Observations:

1. It made me cry several times, but the best time was near the end, when Carrot was writing home to his mother, and said, "I think this is like happiness."
   
   
2. Loved the scene where Vimes faces the attacking mob with Errol: "Do you feel lucky?"
   
   
3. I was sure either Carrot or Vimes was the real heir of the kings.
   
   
4. Loved the Patrician and the Librarian. How is it that Pratchett's best characters are the most ruthless ones?
   
   
5. On the other hand, I loved Lady Sybil too, and she wasn't ruthless. She was sweet. I used to know a woman just like her. (Only without the dragons.)
   
   
6. I thought there was something weird about the scenes with the Dragon who became King. It wasn't till I got to the end, I realized it was because Pratchett was avoiding using a pronoun in reference to the King. I think. Don't have the written text to check.
   
   
7. I loved it whenever Vimes said, "Not in my city."
   
   
8. The story, and the character of Vimes, is exactly what I most love in a story: the down-and-outer who becomes heroic, but who never considers himself a hero. The sense of team- and family-building is a good part of it, too. (Other examples: Captain Jack Harkness, Francis Crawford, Sydney Carton. In a skewed sort of way, the Doctor fits the pattern, too.)
   
   
9. But the best thing, the very best thing of all, was a bit of word-play that encapsulated the whole plot and theme. When we first meet drunken Vimes, he's thinking, "The city is a woman." When we get to the end of the story, he looks at Lady Sybil and thinks, "This woman is a city." Brilliant, absolutely brilliant, bringing it all to a sort of inverted full circle, thematically and emotionally for Vimes.

Eager now for the next book. Bring 'em on.

Comments

[dichroic.livejournal.com]

Thanks - that radioplay will be perfect to listen to while erging, after I finish The Gods of Mars (in which John Carter has just learned that the boy he's been so impressed with is in fact his son, after some of the most heavy-handed foreshadowing I've ever heard).

I'm looking forward to it, because I've read the book and I always find myself noticing different things when listening than when reading.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

after some of the most heavy-handed foreshadowing I've ever heard

LOL. And here I've been watching Bleak House where it seems to me that you'd have to be deaf and blind not to guess right off who Esther's mother was.

On the other hand, Dickens probably wanted it that way. (And I remembered that from the book, anyway.)

[threeringedmoon.livejournal.com]

I love Vimes. After Susan, he is my favorite characters. Granny Weatherwax and Death are also at the head of the list.

But I love Susan the best.

[sollersuk.livejournal.com]

I aspire to Granny Weatherwax as a role model but occasionally lapse into Magrat.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Hee. Me too, I think. Well, actually, I'd like to be Vimes, but I probably resemble the Librarian more.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

If you can tell me without spoilers... Who is Susan?

No, maybe I shouldn't even ask. Too close to being a spoiler. Just a character I've yet to meet. Presumably a Pratchett character. Okay.

[threeringedmoon.livejournal.com]

The first Susan book is Soul Music.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Noted!

[duncanmac.livejournal.com]

I mainly know Susan from _Hogfather_, where Death also makes an apt appearance. I strongly recommend that book ... though you may want to read same when it is nearer the solstice. :-)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

The Solstice is coming up.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

Oooo, a different adaptation! *scampers off to grab* I have the BBC Radio version, which I have yet to listen to, and the Tony Robinson one, which has neither 1 nor 2 in it and thus I had forgotten them.

I've become so invested in the characters as they've evolved that I find it a bit difficult to go back earlier in the progression, such as "Guards, Guards." Wait until Pratchett hits his stride and starts putting out things like Night Watch and Thud and The Truth and Going Postal. I have all of those as unabridgeds... although I want the Tony Robinson of them as well someday, just for novelty's sake.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Wait until Pratchett hits his stride

What? You mean he hasn't yet?

I have all of those as unabridgeds...

I really don't like abridgments.

[neadods.livejournal.com]

I don't like abridgements usually, and the person who's writing these tends not to realize that the setup for a punchline can be chapters earlier and thus cuts one or the other. But I like Tony Robinson, so I enjoy his versions of the books I don't like as much.

And no - Pratchett is nowhere near his full stride yet in Guards, Guards. Look at the difference when you get to Men at Arms even, and then to Feet of Clay - and by the time you get to Night Watch it's like night and day.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Okay - that's incentive to continue, which of course I don't need anyway.

Pratchett is very, very good at setting things up. It's one of his strengths.

Terry Pratchett

[(Anonymous)]

I would suggest reading "Going Postal" It currently my favorite Terry Pratchett book.

Re: Terry Pratchett

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I'll get there - soon!

[sollersuk.livejournal.com]

What I particularly like about the Guards Cycle is the way in which the characters develop. Take care to read them in sequence.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Absolutely!

At first I thought Carrot was stupid. Then I realized he wasn't: he's just... so very focussed.

I look forward to more.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

It's been so good to see you discover the Guards, I promise you will grow to love them more and more and more - and appreciate the Patrician more as well - OMG wait till you get to Night Watch... I was hugely jealous of Sybill. Still am. A bit.

Make sure you read/listen to them in strict order though, don't cheat or you won't get the full impact.

It's also good to see the watch when they aren't part of the main action, when they make small appearances in books like Monstrous Regiment and the Moist books.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I promise you will grow to love them more and more and more

Wonderful!

I expected to like Vimes, just because of things people have said about him. I was somewhat surprised to see how much I came to love Carrot, Colon, and Nobby. (Knobby? The problem with listening to a book is that you don't know how to spell anything from it!)

Yes, I'll listen in order. Trying to find Men at Arms now.

What are the Moist books?

[erastes.livejournal.com]

Oh Moist is a great new character - introduced first in "Going Postal" and then again in "Making Money" he's the main character in both - a confidence trickster who the Patrician tricks into working for the good of the city.

Nobby. Real name: Cecil Wormsborough St. John Nobbs

Yes. Really.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I look forward to meeting Moist.

And Nobby's name? Gorgeous! (A little like a dragon's name.)

[rosiespark.livejournal.com]

Sounds fascinating - you're making me want to read Pratchett! I read The Colour of Magic some time ago and was most unimpressed. Then I somehow got a free copy of Nightwatch, which I liked quite a lot, in spite of not knowing the background. I liked Vimes in that. So maybe I should read some more... The problem is that I don't think I know anyone who could lend them to me. The library is a lost cause, and they're not high enough on my wishlist to justify buying them just so I can try them. *sigh*

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I was not impressed with The Colour of Magic either, but by the time I got to Wyrd Sisters I was hooked. It's not Pratchett's humour that gets to me (though sometimes it does!) - I tend to think of his books as bittersweet rather than funny. It's the way he views people and his general philosophy of life. And his footnotes.

And besides, he's one of that handful of writers who can and does make me cry.

[rosiespark.livejournal.com]

I'd heard that The Colour of Magic was not one of his best and that the later ones are much better. That seems to be the case!

I'll have to look out for them second-hand so that I can read more about Vimes. I really did like him.

Making you cry is a recommendation. ;)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I didn't think The Colour of Magic had much to recommend it, and I don't find Rincewind very intersting compared to most of Terry Pratchett's other protagonists, including the one-off characters. And even minor characters.

I plan to do a posting at some point about who and what makes me cry - certain authors and singers or songs. Not necessarily my favourites, but always stuff I love. It doesn't happen very often, but Terry Pratchett can do it, even in the middle of a joke.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Another Terry Pratchett comment: You know how they say that in fiction, villains are more interesting than good guys and good people are very, very had to write? Probably true. Terry Pratchett is one of those rare souls who can write truly good characters without simplifying them or being condescending or making them uninteresting. Generally they don't think they are good - they may be total fuck-ups in their own eyes - but they're so real you feel as if you know them.

(The fuck-up comment was half-remembering a line in Guards! Guards! in which Lady Sybil tells Nobby to 'buck up' and he reflects that he's usually a few letters further down the alphabet.)

[rosiespark.livejournal.com]

he reflects that he's usually a few letters further down the alphabet.

Good one. *g*

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Made me laugh.

[ceindreadh.livejournal.com]

while it's always good to read books in sequence, in the case of the Discworld, I'd reccommend starting with Mort (book 4).
I think that it took a few books for Pratchett to really get the right feel for the Discworld.
The only problem with skipping The Colour of Magic/The Light Fantastic, is that then you have no idea who Rincewind is when you get to Sourcery.

But it's sooo worth reading them. (hmm, I think it's about time I gathered up my collection and had a re-read!)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I find that when Pratchett is good, he's magnificent. When he falls flat, well... there's no hope for it. So some books are significantly better than others: I can't think of many other writers who have such a range of quality.

But the good books are utterly magnificent.

I can't recall whether I've read Sourcery; I think I did. I certainly read Mort, but I never found Rincewind very interesting. I was quite charmed by Granny Weatherwax.

Even more so, now, by Vimes.

[rosiespark.livejournal.com]

Should I ever get access to the books, I'll keep your advice re. sequence in mind!

I don't think you're close enough location-wise for a request to borrow them to be either feasible or practicable. No one is. So sad.

I suppose I could ask fajrdrako to share the audio versions, but I'm not really into audiobooks.

Maybe I'll come across them second-hand. Or inherit a fortune and be able to splurge happily on whatever I want. I'd then need a bigger house - but the fortune would no doubt cover that. *g*

[ceindreadh.livejournal.com]

Good luck with finding second hand versions! In all my years as a browser of second hand bookshops, I have rarely come across Discworld books. Guess it's a testament to their popularity that so few people sell them on.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I've noticed that Terry Pratchett rarely turns up in second-hand bookshops. It's a pity, because I've been looking for him. But it's one of those things... those who like his books, keep them.

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

Oh, the Watch are some of my favourite characters in Discworld. I love their series.

And wait until you get to Night Watch - it is my favourite book out of all of the Discworld novels. It's an absolute classic.

Since you said you haven't read the Watch books before, what order are you reading in? *is curious* Chronological as written?

There's a nice little plan of the books and how they interconnect different sets of characters here (http://www.lspace.org/books/reading-order-guides/the-discworld-reading-order-guide-1-5.pdf) if you're interested. It's not completely up-to-date but I think it's only missing the latest novel.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Everyone seems to love Night Watch - I look forward to it!

Yes, I'm planning to read the Watch books in the chronological-as-written order, as given on Wikipedia. I assume that is best? here might be a hitch if I can't find all the books/audiobooks. Working on it. (No, I don't have Men at Arms yet.

Thanks for the link!

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

Night Watch is very, very good.

I meant what order you were reading the Discworld novels as a whole though - as written or grouped by character sets? I enjoy the witch books as well (aside from Equal Rites where Granny Weatherwax is more a proto Granny Weatherwax and not like she is later on much at all) - talking of those books, have you encountered the Nac Mac Feegle yet? Rincewind books I'm mostly not a huge fan of (except for Eric and Interesting Times) but I do like the wizards a lot.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

In the past (the rather distant past, now) I was reading Terry's Pratchett's novel in publication order, reading them as they came out, one by one. (Though the first half dozen were already published when I written - I read them in order nonetheless.)

Then I read Only You Can Save Mankind and Truckers and various other non-Discworld books.

Then I stopped to wait for him to write the next one, which must have been Pyramids, and never got back to him. Except to read Moving Pictures and Monstrous Regiment out of order.

[erastes.livejournal.com]

I'm afraid I wouldn't rec starting with Mort - because when you read Eric, you have no idea how Rincewind gets to be where he is when that book starts.

I'd say that you could read the "sections" seperately e.g.

Rincewind
The Witches
The Guards
Moist
Death
Tiffany


but then you've got oddities like Monstrous Regiment, Small Gods, Pyramids, etc - so It's probably just to wade through them one at a time in order.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discworld#Novels

But hell, it doesn't really matter!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I've read the first few Rincewind books, the first three Witches books, Mort and Small Gods and Monstrous Regiment - that has nice associations, since I read it on the plane on my way home from Malta.

[trialia]

*happy sigh* I love Carrot.

Also, Pterry was reading extracts from the new Discworld book to us at the con last Friday, and it sounds awesome.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

How wonderful!

Is the new Discworld novel a Watch novel, or one of the other sets? Or something independent?

yay

[hhandbasket.livejournal.com]

Hey - I usually stick to lurking, but I just had to chime in, since I'm right in the middle of re-listening to all of the City Watch books in order. I've read/audio'd every Pratchett book (including the YA ones, which are dreadful, IMO) and the City Watch ones are far and away my favorites. The cast of characters expands as the series progresses, and the new characters are fantastic as well.

Audible.com has ALL the City Watch books, in case you have trouble finding them (and with a membership, you can get them for about $10 each)

I also second the Moist books recs. Very funny with great characters, but they're later in the chronology, so I'd recommend holding off on those until you're further along in the Vimes saga. Enjoy!

Re: yay

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I might join audible.com. I take it that things downloaded from them can be played on an iPod? I've heard of people having technical trouble with their books - and I'm so technically inept I have trouble with anything electronic.

I'm about to start Men at Arms when I do my exercises today.

So glad you spoke up. I still occasionally reread, and remember with a smile, your Smallville fic that was so utterly delightful. Are you still writing?

Re: yay

[hhandbasket.livejournal.com]

I'm a total Audible evangelist, since I've been using it for more than 5 years without a problem. You CAN use it on an ipod, but you need to use itunes rather than their software. If you try it and have trouble, just drop me a line!

Wow, thanks for remembering my Smallville fic. How lovely! While I gave up on SV a few seasons ago - couldn't take Lana any more - I've kept up with writing, but strayed into Anime (specifically Sayuki). I love TW, though, so if I go into a new LA fandom it'll be that (I've been a Janto shipper since ep 1). If I manage to drum up anything, I'll let you know!

Re: yay

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I don't really know what Sayuki is - though I quite like some anime (and manga even more) I don't know a lot about it.

I gave up on Smallville a few years ago, for the same reason - didn't like Lana, didn't like Lois, and couldn't stand what they were doing to Lex.

Re: yay

[hhandbasket.livejournal.com]

Preaching to the choir, sistah! I found that every aspect of SV was pissing me off, so bye.

I'm biased, but I do recommend Sayuki, especially the manga. Four very flawed main characters, entwined in a traditional Chinese myth with plenty of nods to slash fandom. Good Stuff.

Re: yay

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Sayuki certainly sounds interesting! I'll see if I can find it.

[duncanmac.livejournal.com]

Of the Discworld novels (and especially those featuring Vimes and the Night Watch), I still like _Hogfather_ and _Jingo_ the most. The line in _Jingo_ that I quoted to you still stands out as the most apt comment on some politicians (such as McCain, who wants to knock Persia/Iran back into the Stone Age).

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I'm looking forward to Jingo. Didn't realize Hogfather featured the Watch.

[duncanmac.livejournal.com]

Actually it doesn't. It *does* feature Susan and Death, and the latter is very good at his job. :-)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Well - he's had a lot of practice!

[filkferengi]

I'm so glad you enjoyed the ARTC adaptation; thanks for passing on the rec!

Your observations are very insightful & making me want to go reread some Pratchett. :)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Pratchett is so very rereadable. I'm into Men at Arms now.

[filkferengi]

Yum!