Buffy the Vampire Slayer (3x10) - Amends

[fajrdrako]

Buffy 3x10 - Amends

~ ~ ~

I've had so many things distracting me from writing my comments on "Amends" that I begin to fear I'll never finish. So - now or never!

We start with a nineteenth-century flashback with Angel being bad: Of course I like it. And I like the exchange between Angel and Daniel:

Daniel: You! You're not human.
Angelus: Not of late, no.

Angel is dreaming about his past. Is this part of the curse, or is something else happening to him?

1. The interaction between Angel and Daniel is interesting: I take it that it's to show Angel when he was bad (contrasted to his current guiltiness) but I find myself pondering other implications. Daniel is something of a gullible idiot; Angel enjoys bullying him. Does Daniel'sdweebishness make Angel seem better or worse - from the viewer's point of view? From Angel's point of view, it's all bad, I think. But I'm not sure that's the real message. Certainly we get the point that Angel preyed on the weak.
   
   
2. A vampire saying "It's Christmas!" as he bites someone is an interesting image.
   
   
3. Buffy is buying something magical for Willow? I like that. Or maybe she's getting something for Giles.
   
   
4. Images of heat and cold throughout the episode. Nice theme.
   
   
5. Cordelia tells everyone in earshot that "you slept outside to avoid your family's drunken Christmas fights." Breaking a confidence to be mean? I liked Cordelia before I started watching Angel; now I judge such comments harshly.
   
   
6. Oz doesn't exactly forgive Willow, but he's willing to try again. Good. I like his 'om' T-shirt.
   
   
7. Seems to me it's a bit mean of Joyce to want Buffy to invite Faith for a Christmas meal when she clearly doesn't want to. Especially when she then draws the line at Giles! But this makes me wonder about Christmas customs: is it customary in California to have one's Christmas meal with guests on Christmas Eve? People I know usually have the big meal with family on guests on the afternoon of Christmas Day. (Except my French Canadians friends, whose customs are somewhat different - they often have a traditional meal after midnight mass.)
   
   
8. Faith has party plans? She's a bad liar.
   
   
9. Angel comes to Giles' door. I love, love, love this scene.

   Angel: Um... I'm sorry to bother you.
   Giles: Sorry. Coming from you that phrase strikes me as rather funny. 'Sorry to bother me.'
   Angel: I need your help.
   Giles: And the funny keeps on coming....
   Angel: I... I can't come in unless you invite me.
   Giles: (With primed crossbow) I'm aware of that.

   Delicious stuff. For some reasons in scenes like this I get the impression we are seeing 'the real Giles' more than we usually do when we see him at the school as the mild-mannered librarian. And then:

   Angel: I should be in a demon dimension suffering an eternity of torture.
   Giles: I don't feel particularly inclined to argue with that.

10. The Angel sees Jenny. Or the ghost of Jenny. Or a magically-invoked vision of Jenny, or whatever it is. I like her much, much more as a villain than I ever did as a schoolteacher, maybe because I don't feel duty-bound to try to like her now.
    
    
11. Nice sexy Buffy/Angel scene. I thought we weren't going to get any more of that. I am pleased. And this segues in to being not Angels dream/nightmare, but Buffy's. Cool.
    
    
12. Absolute evil? That's an entity? Okay... But it seems to be the priests who are causing the trouble.
    
    
13. I liked Xander pretending to be tough in the bar, with Willy. Also liked the way Willy complimented him on it.
    
    
14. Willows tries to seduce Oz. And fails. Sometimes I think Oz is a little too cautious.
    
    
15. So Faith turns up at Buffy's on Christmas Eve. Of course she does.
    
    
16. The fake-ghost of Jenny is trying to tempt Angel to molest Buffy. Going for his weak spot, I suppose. Poor guy has nowhere to turn. So he runs. Why couldn't he explain better? Was it just his emotional distress, or was she somehow preventing him? How much sleep to vampires need? Buffy is right when she says "he's slipping," but not so right, I think, when she says, "We're losing him."
    
    
17. I like the way we segue from Giles saying to Buffy, "If he truly becomes a danger, you may have to kill him. Again. Can you do that?" to Angel saying, "I can't do it." And then: "I'll never hurt her."
    
    
18. But he realizes he can't fight Jenny/The First so he decides to stand in the sunlight.
    
    
19. Buffy figures out about the dead Christmas trees and what they mean. Smart girl.
    
    
20. A wonderful line from Angel: "I can smell the sunrise long before it comes."
    
    
21. The rooftop conversation between Angel and Buffy reminds me of Lymond and Philippa in the library at Lyons. No wonder I like this so much.
    
    
22. Love Buffy's line: "I killed you and it didn't help." I also like her line, "I wish that I wished you dead. I don't. I can't."
    
    
23. Snow. Now, snow is often used in a sort of mystical way in TV shows and movies, especially those made in California. And I don't usually get it, because snow is... well, it's pretty, but it's just snow. Besides which, this is thefakest-looking TV snow I have ever seen. (With the possible exception of the paper snow on the Ood planet in Doctor Who.) But the snow in this case is enough of a surprise to snap Angel and Buffy out of their despair and their dilemma. Live? Die? Better to just walk in the snow. (But isn't the sun still coming up? How slow is it, anyway?)
    
    
24. I like the scene of Xander sleeping in the snow with his comic books.
    
    
25. I guess Jenny and the First Evil are plain out of luck. Merry Christmas to all. (Or, since I just referenced Doctor Who, "Everybody lives.")
    

Comments

[sparklebutch.livejournal.com]

#9: Good Giles.

I actually just today read something being mentioned (not for the first time) how Giles is usually so tamed near Buffy, and how much cooler it is when he isn't.


"In the Buffy and Giles relationship, Giles is forced into being the cautious voice counter-opposed to Buffy's youthful enthusiasm and fall into the role of the stuffy nervous librarian. But the greatest moments of the series for Giles involved him breaking loose and that he does in "Giles (http://hubpages.com/hub/Buffy_the_Vampire_Slayer_Giles_-_Beyond_the_Pale)"...

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Not that Giles isn't always wonderful in his way, but Buffy forces him into a grown-up role that doesn't always fit naturally. She doesn't do it deliberately, but it's her effect, and it's unfortunate, since it's her show and we're getting her viewpoint on the characters and action.

But it's such fun when get the glimpses of the other, inner Giles. And the Ripper past.

[sparklebutch.livejournal.com]

I never understood that "hero's pov" thing. Do "other people" really only think about the pov of the person with the most screen time?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure what your question means; but it seems to me very clear that Buffy is written in such a way that, whether she is onscreen or not, we get her point of view of characters and action. This doesn't mean we can't look beyond that (and we do) but it's what the story is usually presenting.

[sparklebutch.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but...

Okay, it's nearly six in the morning and I can't put it in proper words. Might try another time.

[sparklebutch.livejournal.com]

: It's a good Giles moment not just because it's Ripper, or because he's holding a weapon. It's a good moment because he stands up for himself and for a moment, doesn't forgive and forget all the horrors done to him for Buffy's sake.

[teaphile.livejournal.com]

should be in a demon dimension suffering an eternity of torture.

I've never really understood why a demon would suffer in a demon dimension. Shouldn't he be happy there? Wasn't that the point of "sucking the world into hell"?

You could say that Angel-the-soul would be suffering, but then why would he use the word "should"? Angel-the-soul didn't do anything while knowing the consequences.

Sometimes the mythology of this show confuses me. Especially The First.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I suspect you've accustomed yourself to looking at the show with an omniscient point of view - which is what I've been doing too, because I'm into fanfic, because I like to see it from Giles' point of view, and so on. But I think the show as presented is from Buffy's viewpoint, just as Torchwood is from Gwen's viewpoint (with exceptions; "Dead Man Walking" was Owen's viewpoint, for example).

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

It's a moment when we are reminded how strong-minded Giles is, how he really is committed to fighting the good fight without compromise. It isn't just the personal memories; it's his bone-deep knowledge of what Angel really is.

I wish we saw Giles like this every episode.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I've never really understood why a demon would suffer in a demon dimension. Shouldn't he be happy there? Wasn't that the point of "sucking the world into hell"?

Hmm. I quote without necessarily understanding. One explanation: Demons suffer like everyone in the omnipresent misery of hell. (This didn't seem to be the case in the hell Buffy went to in "Anne".)

Another explanation: Angel is a special case. He was mortal when he went to hell, and I'd assumed he didn't become a vampire again till he came back. (But maybe not - they never said so.) Maybe Acathla's vengeance singled Angel out as a threat or plaything.

Maybe Angel is exaggerating.

Maybe Angel-the-soul is taking on suffering for sins not his own - it's a common motif for heroes to suffer for others, taking on the burden of mankind's sins, sometimes in symbolic hells and sometimes in literal ones. (Cf. Frodo in Lord of the Rings, Captain Jack in several circumstances in Torchwood.)

Moreover since I don't see a big difference between Angel and Angelus, it makes sense to me that Angel should be suffering for the sins of Angelus. But I'm not sure that is what was happening.

Sometimes the mythology of this show confuses me.

Indeed. Me too. It seems... wildly inconsistent. Not just the mythology, but the logistics. What is a demon? It seems to be simply a parahuman race with - at least sometimes - magical properties. What is the relationship between demons and vampires? Why are some vampires mindless zombies, others as clever and humanlike as Spike?

This is part of the fun, but it would be good to have more answers.

The First

I believe we will encounter the First again - ?

[sparklebutch.livejournal.com]

Shouldn't he be happy there?

Vampires aren't full demons, they're half-breeds. Also, there's "the world being hellish" and then there's getting personally tortured a lot. Angelus likes to inflict it, not so much take it.

Angel-the-soul didn't do anything

What? Soul or no soul, the brain is the same brain and the responsibility is the same responsibility.

The First I would take to be a basic mythical force.

[sparklebutch.livejournal.com]

He was mortal when he went to hell

Wha?

it makes sense to me that Angel should be suffering for the sins of Angelus

Of course. Same guy, same responsibility. "The demon made me do it" is really not a good excuse. Even Angel can see that.

What is a demon?

An inclusive name to quite a large number of races and species. Who are not human, but not falling under specific other titles.

What is the relationship between demons and vampires?

Vampires are half-breeds, part demon. They are not "pure".

Why are some vampires mindless zombies, others as clever and humanlike as Spike?

Same reason some people are mindless and some clever. Vampires are... people.

There are answers. Buffy myth gets confuzzled at times, but is a hella lot more consistent than some others I can point at, cough.

[sparklebutch.livejournal.com]

Yes, but like you said, it's Buffy's show.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Angelus likes to inflict it, not so much take it.

That's a point.

Soul or no soul, the brain is the same brain and the responsibility is the same responsibility.

I'm not sure what a soul is, in Buffy. Angel believes himself to be the same person with or without a soul, so that's enough for me. I'm perfectly happy to give him full responsibility for his misdeeds - prefer it that way, in fact.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

He was mortal when he went to hell

Wha?

Well, he'd just been killed. By Buffy. Hence a sort of mortality. Not that it means a lot in context.

"The demon made me do it" is really not a good excuse. Even Angel can see that.

To do him credit, he never says that. He's more into 'mea culpa'.

An inclusive name to quite a large number of races and species. Who are not human, but not falling under specific other titles.

And who tend to be mortal, right?

Vampires are half-breeds, part demon.

That gives Doyle and Angel a lot in common.

Same reason some people are mindless and some clever. Vampires are... people.

The difference seems more pronounced than with humans, but I'll accept that as an explanation for the time being.

Buffy myth gets confuzzled at times, but is a hella lot more consistent than some others I can point at, cough.

Yeah. I don't mind the vagueness to the details. I like it, in fact. But it's nice to figure out what we do know, in contrast to what we don't.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Buffy's show. That sums it up.

[sparklebutch.livejournal.com]

Thing is, I'm not that big on Buffy. Was far less big before s6, too.

[sparklebutch.livejournal.com]

And who tend to be mortal, right?

Most things tend to be mortal. Except primeval forces, and even those... Most things can die if one kills them hard enough.

Doyle and Angel

Well, except Doyle from what I remember is like that because of a birth thing, like interspecies, while vampires are what they are as a species... well. :)

The difference seems more pronounced

For some reason I have a feeling you mean young, newly-risen vampires. Those can be explained by the death part - traumatic, and the grave, and all. Some pop out, probably take a while just finding their balance again...

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I'm surprised I like Buffy as much as I do, since I didn't expect to like her at all.

We'll see what I think when I get to s6.

[teenygozer.livejournal.com]

FYI, Joss Whedon has said in many interviews that when they were writing scripts, he would ask over & over questions like: "WHAT IS THE BUFFY OF THIS SCRIPT? WHAT IS THE BUFFY OF THIS PLOT? WHAT IS THE BUFFY OF THIS CONVERSATION?" So I'd say you are right that there was a definite Buffy's Eye View of the world thing going on.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Directors and writers often like to have one character to pin the show on - often a young female character, even when she isn't necessarily the protagonist of the show. In this case, it is the protagonist.

And Buffy's story is one worth telling, but it's fun to speculate about the viewpoints and action we don't see onscreen.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Demons and half-demons... Vampires with souls and vampires without souls... I do get confused.

I take it that in Buffy's world, though vampires can have sex, they can't get pregnant?

Are all the apparently-mindless vampires young? I thought some of the minions of the Master were supposed to be old, like him. (Only less old.)

[sparklebutch.livejournal.com]

I take it that in Buffy's world, though vampires can have sex, they can't get pregnant?

*cough**choke**gargle*

Uh... Yes, in theory, in general, that is correct. They are, to all intents and purposes, dead bodies.

But, you know. To every rule, etc.

Are all the apparently-mindless vampires young? I thought some of the minions of the Master were supposed to be old, like him. (Only less old.)

If a vampire is clambering about, exhibiting no signs of much a personality beyond the bloodlust and violence... I would bet on either they were like that to begin with, or else they're new babes. I think the grave trauma is a plausible explanation; death does not carry a positive influence on the human brain.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

*cough**choke**gargle*

Hee.

They are, to all intents and purposes, dead bodies.

Except they can walk, talk, smoke, eat, have sex, and suck blood. Right. I sometimes have trouble with these simple concepts.

I think the grave trauma is a plausible explanation; death does not carry a positive influence on the human brain.

Hmm. Good point. Varying circumstances causing variations of brain-damage, or maybe soul-damage.... I like that explanation.

What I really, really like about this show is that there is so much difference from one vampire to the next. And from one demon to the next, too, if I could bring myself to like a demon. (I'm told I will like Lorne. I haven't liked any of the demons I've seen so far. Plastic heads are a problem for me.)

[sparklebutch.livejournal.com]

dead bodies

The body's dead, but the spirit, the drive, and the inner demon are there? Consider them metaphors.

if I could bring myself to like a demon

Like Spike? Like Angel? Even closer, like Angelus?

You will probably like Lorne. Also, if you're not there already, a certain fyarl. But the thing is, like personalities, not plastic faces? (Okay, that reminded me of Nip/Tuck, the basics of)

Also, do you like Anthony Crowley?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

The body's dead, but the spirit, the drive, and the inner demon are there? Consider them metaphors.

Metaphors. I can deal with metaphors. The trick is figuring where the metaphor begins and ends.

Like Spike? Like Angel? Even closer, like Angelus

I was making a distinction between vampires and demons here, since demons are usually presented with colourful plastic heads. That's the part I don't like. I don't even like the active-vampire look and I'm relieved that Spike and Angel don't use it much.

But the thing is, like personalities, not plastic faces?

It's a prejudice I am trying to overcome. I have less trouble in real life. (Maybe because I don't meet a lot of demons.)

Also, do you like Anthony Crowley?

Yes. But he looks human most of the time, if you leave on the sunglasses.

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

I have to admit, I didn't really enjoy this one. Maybe because I have moved away from being connected with Angel as a character since I first watched these.

it's a bit mean of Joyce to want Buffy to invite Faith for a Christmas meal when she clearly doesn't want to. Especially when she then draws the line at Giles!

Ah, but she doesn't want Giles there because she's awkward about the Band Candy incident. While Faith has no such uncomfortableness for Joyce.

Willows tries to seduce Oz. And fails. Sometimes I think Oz is a little too cautious

I love that she plays Barry White! And then Oz mentions it too.

snow is often used in a sort of mystical way in TV shows and movies, especially those made in California.

Probably because they never have real snow there. I know my friend from Zimbabwe always got incredibly excited about snow.

isn't the sun still coming up? How slow is it, anyway?

Yes, but it is also being blocked by a very thick layer of snowcloud. And non-direct sunlight doesn't seem to be that big of an issue for lead character vampires.

the First Evil are plain out of luck

Possibly my main problem with the episode is actually that it just doesn't make much sense plotwise. The First wants Buffy dead and Angel evil, then it seems just as happy with Angel dead, then it doesn't even try to make sure he dies. Gah. What was the point again?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Maybe because I have moved away from being connected with Angel as a character since I first watched these.

Interseting. I wonder if my attitude will change as I watch more and as I see what happens later.

she doesn't want Giles there because she's awkward about the Band Candy incident. While Faith has no such uncomfortableness for Joyce.

Of course. This is all the more reason I'd like them to invite Giles!

I know my friend from Zimbabwe always got incredibly excited about snow.

Only through unfamiliarity, I'm sure. So it's fine that Buffy was excited by snow - I'm not sure what it would mean to Angel, really. It just didn't work too much for me as viewer, from a place where snow is so commonplace (and such a nuisance) that it has totally different connotations. beautiful? Yes. But it can be ugly, too.

non-direct sunlight doesn't seem to be that big of an issue for lead character vampires.

So I see. Direct sunlight can set them on fire, but daylight, and indirect sunlight - no problem.

The First wants Buffy dead and Angel evil, then it seems just as happy with Angel dead, then it doesn't even try to make sure he dies. Gah. What was the point again?

I wondered that. The First didn't seem to be paying much attention, or at least not trying very hard. What kind of evil is that?

[ceruleancat.livejournal.com]

I think what Adam meant was - do viewers usually watch from the pov of the character fed to them as central?
I know neither of us watch from that perspective, whether it's something familiar or new. We get reactions like 'this is what the writers want us to see/think/focus on, which is X's POV' and a lot of time there's 'pity they didn't go into Y's POV, which would have been infinitely more interesting'. But there never is just noticing, accepting, understanding or whatever, just from the POV chosen by the creators.

[ceruleancat.livejournal.com]

re plastic faces - I find myself wondering which characters would have fared better (and which worse) if you were reading this rather than watching the live action with all the makeup (or if they were using only limited symbolic makeup or masks or something (thinking of various Japanese theatrical traditions for some reason). I don't particularly like the rubbery-uber-makeup myself, but I tend to look through it. But then I tend to do that to characters wearing no demonic makeup too. I usually don't notice much about what characters look like.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

think what Adam meant was - do viewers usually watch from the pov of the character fed to them as central?

Probably not - or at least, I generally don't. But I do recognize when a character is being used as a viewpoint in terms of scene selection, knowledge imparted, and so on. So even if I watch from that point of view (because we don't see what's happening with other characters from their perspective), I might well be sympathizing or empathizing or identifying more with another character. This happens a lot in Torchwood, where Gwen is often the POV but I'm usually taking the POV of Jack.

I don't think this is a problem, it's just that everyone watches TV in their own way. I don't know but I'd guess that many viewers don't ever analyze pov or question the perspective. Others pay attention, and do it their own way - or just do it their own way, never realizing that the story is slanted in another direction.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I find myself wondering which characters would have fared better (and which worse) if you were reading this rather than watching the live action with all the makeup (or if they were using only limited symbolic makeup or masks or something

It's almost a certainty that I'd have liked them better.

I tend to do that to characters wearing no demonic makeup too. I usually don't notice much about what characters look like.

I think I tend to dismiss characters with rubber masks as childish.

[ceruleancat.livejournal.com]

That makes me think of Jessica Rabbit: I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way.

Yes, something like that.

Visuals are important to me - and though the writing style and the storyline is the most important thing of all, there is a huge difference (for example) between a comic whose art I like and comic whose art seems dull. Human faces are the most important aspect of this - and that carries over into film and television.

So demon-faces strike me as ugly and that gets in the way of my enjoyment.