Torchwood: a theory from watching "Fragments" again...

[fajrdrako]

I watched the Torchwood episode "Fragments" again this evening with friends, and loved it as much as before. As tends to happen after viewing this episode - and it was the first time for for some people - we started discussing the role of UNIT. I totted out my theory that either Martha would see the violations of human rights that UNIT was perpetuating, and stop it, or that the Doctor had set Martha up by getting her the job in UNIT and was expecting her to act.

commodorified suggested that possibly, instead of the Doctor getting Martha the job, Jack had actually done it. This isn't what the conversation between Martha and Jack in "Reset" implied, but if Jack had done it, and didn't want anyone (including Martha) to know... well, he is a con man. And we know he knew what was happening at UNIT.

I'd love to know what the favours were that he did for UNIT, that they owe him favours for in return.

Comments

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Hat?

[confused]

[utopia83.livejournal.com]

I've never seen old Doctor Who...but the Doctor is the one who replaced an army factory with a banana plantation. Is it possible that he knew what was going on at UNIT while he was stationed there during his exile and never did anything about it?

Or is the violation of human rights something that happened in later years, and as such the Doctor was less involved and the info he was privy to diminished?

I'm here through the T3 Comm. I just had to comment.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

but the Doctor is the one who replaced an army factory with a banana plantation. Is it possible that he knew what was going on at UNIT while he was stationed there during his exile and never did anything about it?

Which exile are you talking about? I don't know the old continuity either, but my impression has been that when UNIT was part of the story, they were the good guys. Which means things have changed a lot since we last saw them. I assumed with "The Last of the Time Lords" that UNIT was duped by the Master; but we really don't know what they were like.

Or is the violation of human rights something that happened in later years

That is my guess.

as such the Doctor was less involved and the info he was privy to diminished?

He may not have been around at the time it was happening. It could be that he still doesn't know; or it could be that he does know, and has sent Martha to do something about it. (Probably without telling her the situation - but even that isn't clear.)

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

I've been wondering about RTD's portrayal of UNIT. In S1 all their experts get killed. They are pretty much a non-entity from then on, with Torchwood being shoved to the forefront in alien/Doctor/Earth interactions. It's like he was trying to downplay/erase UNIT's role in the DWverse. Not sure where he's going with Martha being put to work there, but I doubt it'll be good for UNIT's reputation

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I suspect UNIT will be a villain, will be taken down, and will re-emerge in a heroic role, sort of like Torchwood did.

Though as Jack says, Torchwood is still a work in progress.

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

I really hope though that it's history isn't ignored. I'd love a comment about what the Brig would have said about X or something like that

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

We'll see! Generally I think RTD is good at acknowledging the history even while he takes new directions.

[donutsweeper.livejournal.com]

I hope you are right! :)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Time will tell.

[utopia83.livejournal.com]

The replacement is mentioned when he meets Jack in The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances. Sorry, I meant to say a weapon factory on a planet somewhere.
In old continuity, the Doctor was exiled from Gallifrey and stuck on on Earth for a while...that's when he cooperated with UNIT on a regular basis.

If it had been happening then, the Doctor would never have stood for it. Of course, different Doctor, different personality, but he's inherently a do-gooder and such a blatant violation of human rights would have gotten a reaction. And not a good one.

I'm surprised Jack didn't do anything about it, except getting Tosh out. I mean, he's Jack. He took over Torchwood because the old management killed aliens instead of trying to send them back to where they came from. (and it was made up of viciously kinky bitches, but I don't think that's what worried him, specifically.)

[wijsgeer.livejournal.com]

in the, non-canonical - big finish story about U.N.I.T., UNIT itself is being taken over by an even more secret military organisation IRIS (ISIS? hard to hear) that sees no problem in "dealing" with noisy journalists and killing all aliens, even those who proclaim themselves ambassadors. The brigadier (the one from the old DR Who) exposes them.

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

Ooooh. I like that theory - though I'm not sure if UNIT would desribe Jack as being an impeccable reference!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

If it had been happening then, the Doctor would never have stood for it. Of course, different Doctor, different personality, but he's inherently a do-gooder and such a blatant violation of human rights would have gotten a reaction. And not a good one.

Indeed. This is why I suspect he is getting involved, or will get involved, or some such thing. I am still, in fact, reeling in shock that he let the Master decimate and enslave Earth. But... carrying right on....

I wonder why Jack didn't do something about UNIT? Because he is focusing on alien dangers? Because he doesn't have the power, and is, taking the long view? Because his appropriation of Tosh is his first step in freeing all the prisoners? I don't know. It will be interesting to see.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

The brigadier (the one from the old DR Who) exposes them.

Cool! I wonder if that is what inspired this new story?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Maybe UNIT didn't know it was Jack, if he was being sneaky enough.

[utopia83.livejournal.com]

I believe that UNIT has been on a huge power trip ever since we've seen them last on the old continuity. Much akin to Torchwood 1 (Canary Wharf, London) That's the only explanation I can find.

Power tripping seems to be a huge issue in both DW and TW. All of them are people who have big responsibilities and are faced with the task of making difficult choices every day. It ties in with what I was discussing with another fan: there are morality and moral issues that we might see as clear cut, but which aren't so for them. The problem with organizations such as UNIT and Torchwood is that they are unsupervised, and as such think that they are entitle to push their mandates to extremes.

This Doctor is so big on no second chances, he's forgotten to apply that to the Master. He barged onto the Valiant without a plan. Of course, there wouldn't have been a Valiant if the hero of the piece would have stopped to think, in all his down from teh adrenaline rush/world saving/regeneration crack high, about the power void he'd generate after his verbal attack on Heather Jones. Had he really been piqued about the alien technology Earth was not supposed to own, he would have investigated Torchwood long before. I don't know if the Ninth Doctor would have let something so unsettling go so easily.

On a lighter note, I'm watching Sleeper, and Ianto's "He's dashing. You've gotta give him that," is absolutely priceless.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I believe that UNIT has been on a huge power trip ever since we've seen them last on the old continuity.

Could well be. I expect we'll get more informaition.

Power tripping seems to be a huge issue in both DW and TW.

Yes - power and how it is used.

This Doctor is so big on no second chances, he's forgotten to apply that to the Master. He barged onto the Valiant without a plan.Z

So he did. Make errors.

there wouldn't have been a Valiant if the hero of the piece would have stopped to think, in all his down from teh adrenaline rush/world saving/regeneration crack high, about the power void he'd generate after his verbal attack on Heather Jones.

Set in motion then, yes.

there wouldn't have been a Valiant if the hero of the piece would have stopped to think, in all his down from teh adrenaline rush/world saving/regeneration crack high, about the power void he'd generate after his verbal attack on Heather Jones.

The Ninth Doctor seemed to keep a closer eye on Earth.

Ianto's "He's dashing. You've gotta give him that," is absolutely priceless.

I love that. There are so many good Ianto lines.

"Sleeper" is a bit of a favourite of mine.

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

Well if anyone could get away with fooling UNIT into thinking they've had a communication from the Doctor, it would be Jack.

I'd like to know about the favours they owe him too. Though I can definitely understand why Jack never tried to do anything about them before - his resources are very limited compared to theirs, and he has enough on his plate already. His overriding purpose is to keep the world safe anyway so other considerations, like making sure other organisations are keeping their houses clean, are low on his list.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Well if anyone could get away with fooling UNIT into thinking they've had a communication from the Doctor, it would be Jack.

So I was thinking.

Though I can definitely understand why Jack never tried to do anything about them before - his resources are very limited compared to theirs, and he has enough on his plate already.

Yes, and he has made it his agenda to save the world from alien menaces - or from what's coming, whatever it may be - he isn't here to save the world from itself. Though I'm sure he'd do what he can. It just isn't Torchwood's chosen mandate.

But I'm sure he would like to see something done to make things better here, if he can.