Saturday...

[fajrdrako]

Coughing and sniffling, tired and aching, crampy and headachy, I still managed to have a great day - slightly overdosed on analgesics.

After two false tries I finally managed to tape Torchwood "Premier Jour" on television - that's "Day One" in French. I watched it while doing yoga. (Doing yoga with a body that will barely move and doesn't want to be upside down in any way is an odd experience.) Tried and failed to catch the exact French word for "rat jam". Must try again.

Then: I made oatmeal and had a lovely breakfast with maaboroshi, and Yolande, who is visiting from Montreal. We then went to Costco, where I bought blueberries and bras. Then to Loblaw's for groceries. Then home, and housework, and I even managed a half-hour nap, made necessary by the chest cold.

A minor moment of disaster: I was typing on the computer, and my keyboard wouldn't work. I replugged it in another ISB port. I got the Blue Screen of Death and a message saying HARDWARE FAILURE - CONTACT VENDOR. I turned off the computer. Turned it on again. All was well.

Erk. Don't want that to happen too often. I begin to think that getting a new computer sometime soon would be a good idea. This reliable machine works miracles, but it has its limitations.

Then Tasia came over, and we played Scrabble - yes, real Scrabble with a board, not online. An odd feeling - it had been a while. It was one of those games where as often as not the person who had just played was in the lead. She won, but not by much.

Then Harry, Sheila, Peter and Donna came over and I showed them Doctor Who "Time Crash" and "Voyage of the Damned". We ordered Chinese food from Chopstick Tale - I'd never heard of them, but maaseru recommended them, and quite rightly, too. Delicious, and not too pricey.

Then we all watched Torchwood "Kiss, Kiss, Bang, Bang". And everyone loved it. To my delight, everyone who watched with me tonight likes Gwen: I find I've become quite accustomed to assuming that I'm the only Gwen-lover around, so it was great to be able to discuss her with people who see her good points, not just her bad. And who don't mind it, that she and Jack like each other.

Of course, everyone enjoyed Captain John. There's an interesting feeling here, that my slash interests have slipped over a barrier into the mainstream. No subtext business here, this is sheer text. None of these people are slash fans in any way, but they were all thoroughly enjoying the Jack/John and Jack/Ianto storylines.

More power to Torchwood, I'd say.

Comments

[wijsgeer.livejournal.com]

I like Gwen!!! (My sister is called Gwendolyn, so I am naturally biassed)
I also like sexual tension between her and Jack (and between Jack and Ianto and the tinyist bit of tension between Owen and Jack). I have no problem believing someone can be sincerely attracted/in love/loving more than one person (having done so passionately but foolishly and with hurtful consequences myself).
I'd dislike it if people prefer Jack and Gwen together because they are grossed out over the idea of Jack and Ianto. (But why don't they stick to X-files or something like that in the first place, they do't have to watch).
No, I don't wan't Jack and Gwen to start an affair, I'd feel it is unfair towards Rhys and also to Ianto (though he and Jack are not encaged and it does mean he has less of a 'claim'). I seriously cannot see Rhys/Gwen/Jack in a consenting polyamorous relationship. Jack/Ianto/Gwen eeeeh!!!! Relationships on the workfloor, mixing work and pleasure are hard enough (and with all the tension and kissing going on, it makes nice television but I can imagine it can also be confusing and stressful) but that would a bit too much. And I don't see how Jack could pull of a secret relationship with Ianto and one with Gwen in front of everyones eyes (I may be naive).

Hope you are feeling a bit better by now :-)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I like Gwen!!!

Wonderful!

(My sister is called Gwendolyn, so I am naturally biassed

It's a lovely name. I don't know if I've ever met a person actually named Gwen.. but I love it in books.

I also like sexual tension between her and Jack (and between Jack and Ianto and the tinyist bit of tension between Owen and Jack)

Yes, and I like the way it manifests so differently each time. Ianto is all smouldering vulnerability. Gwen is simmering tension and long glances. Owen is cocky show-off/denial/competition. It's all great.

(having done so passionately but foolishly and with hurtful consequences myself).

And I have done so with good consequences. Very good. Utter happiness.

I don't wan't Jack and Gwen to start an affair, I'd feel it is unfair towards Rhys

Under the current circumstances, yes, definitely. (And Gwen should never have touched Owen.) But circumstances change.

And I don't see how Jack could pull of a secret relationship with Ianto and one with Gwen in front of everyones eyes (I may be naive).

If anyone could, Jack could, but I don't think he would. I assume the secrecy of his relationship with Ianto is Ianto's choice - it surprises me, but it works well in terms of plot and theme.

One question is: what will Gwen think, or how will she react, when she finds out about Jack and Ianto? Will it be a moot point, since she has Rhys? Or will she be jealous? Or angry because Jack never told her? Or accepting, because it's Jack?

[omnivorously.livejournal.com]

Oh, I like Gwen! She's overall an admirable person, though she makes mistakes. And she's a damn good interrogator. I recently read an article about how torture really isn't a very efficient method for gathering information - I bet Gwen has a better success rate than anyone at Gitmo, heh. But, well, I'm a slasher. Het couples just don't interest me as much as a same-sex male couple (which raises a new set of questions re: gender identity and sexual orientation for me, but there you are).

mygod, I love how they portray gender and sexuality in this show. Love it. This is how all shows should do it.

[omnivorously.livejournal.com]

"Ianto is smouldering vulnerability"

Yes! Yes he is : D : D

I'd like to see Gwen/Jack, but not at Ianto's expense - and I really don't think Ianto is going to want to share, and I don't want Jack and Ianto to break up, and I don't feel much sexual tension between Ianto and Gwen. And I wouldn't like to see Gwen/Jack if Gwen were still committed to Rhys. But in what I'm calling the ring scene, I think Gwen was hoping for more from Jack and I think Jack was disappointed to hear that Gwen was engaged. When Gwen finds out, I think she'll be a little disappointed; and she's got no call to be angry, so if she is, well, that will be very revealing.

[wijsgeer.livejournal.com]

I assume the secrecy of his relationship with Ianto is Ianto's choice

We actually don't know for certain that it is secret. Yes, it seems likely that there would be banter and jokes about it in the team if it was known, but it could also be so well known and taken as a given that they are past the stage of banter? We did see 1 public kiss between Jack and Ianto where the whole team was present (after the world was nearly destroyed trough their stupidity, so maybe they were a tad distracted).

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

We actually don't know for certain that it is secret.

You're quite right: my argument that the others don't know is more of an argument from lack of information to the contrary than anything else. Although I don't understand why they would keep it a secret, I like the idea that they did.

Since Jack is very secretive about personal matters with the Team (not wanting to talk about his past or about the Doctor, for example) it makes some sort of sense that he would be quiet about it, even if he does (occasionally) chatter about acrobatic loves of his past. And Ianto - this would be new territory to him; privacy might be a defense mechanism.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I'd like to see Gwen/Jack, but not at Ianto's expense

I would agree with that. It all depends on how it's done, and how the story carries on.

[raissad.livejournal.com]

But, Jack and Ianto aren't a secret. They kissed in front of everyone in End of Days.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

She's overall an admirable person, though she makes mistakes.

Sadly, she makes some very stupid mistakes. (Like Owen!) But yes, overall she's admirable, and quite lovable.

But, well, I'm a slasher. Het couples just don't interest me as much as a same-sex male couple

Oh, me too, absolutely. Which is why it's surprising that I like Jack/Gwen at all. Jack seems to bring out the het-love in me sometimes. (Not to mention an interest in threesomes.)

And keep in mind that my favourite Jack pairing by far - no comparison, even, with any others - is Jack/Doctor. All else pales in comparison. But that doesn't mean I can't enjoy the other pairings.

mygod, I love how they portray gender and sexuality in this show. Love it. This is how all shows should do it.

Oh, yes, absolutely true. They do it so well you realize how badly all other shows are handling it.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I agree. But that doesn't prove they've been having sex, and Ianto might never have explained.

[duncanmac.livejournal.com]

I was typing on the computer, and my keyboard wouldn't work ...

Arrrgh. That's always a pain. My own preference is to keep a computer past the (not always obvious) point that it should be retired. I can understand that others would prefer to replace their PCs first.

If you need any advice about replacing your computer, I'm certainly willing to help. I will try to avoid applying my own preferences, e.g. for Linux, onto you. Fair warning: if you want to get a computer running Windows XP, do it soon. Micro$oft is already trying to push people to adopt Windows Vista, which has a large number of problems that will affect almost everyone. (If you aren't running games, your TV, or other high-graphics programs on your Windows PC, I really doubt there's any immediate reason to adopt Windows Vista anyway.)

Good luck on finding a new and good PC.

[omnivorously.livejournal.com]

I'm starting to find Jack more attractive ... I think it's much more a personality thing than a physical thing, though. He's a good guy, if a bit too much of a guy for my taste, if you follow.

There isn't a threesome I can see him in that wouldn't be an utter trainwreck, though. At one point, Owen/Gwen/Jack might have been conceivable, but not anymore. And Ianto/Gwen/Jack ... Ianto could use some caring like Gwen, but there's nothing in canon to support it at all.

Do Jack and the Doctor ever kiss, or is subtext? Wait, no, don't tell me! Forget I asked! *covers ears*

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Your advice is good, and though I'm interested in Linux, I'm reluctant to switch to a system I'm unfamiliar with, which may not do all the things I want, need and already. But I certainly don't plan or intend to get Vista!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I'm starting to find Jack more attractive ... I think it's much more a personality thing than a physical thing

It's definitely a pesonality thing for me, since Jack is too pretty to be my usual type of fannish attraction. "Too pretty" may not be the best way of putting it but I'm not sure how else to say it. His nose is too small, maybe? It isn't that he's unattractive, but I wouldn't give him two glances on the basis of looks alone. But his dialogue and style really caught me Doctor Who, and the personality, lifestyle and image he has in Torchwood totally won my heart.

I think I understand about the "good guy" thing, though. He has enough conflicts and shadows in him to offset that for me. (Rather like the way the Doctor, for all his benign manner, destroyed his own race and can be merciless.)

Do Jack and the Doctor ever kiss, or is subtext?

"Yes" to both questions. I don't want to give you spoilers; I don't think it's saying too much to say that Jack kisses Rose, too, and the producers and actors took pains to make the Jack/Doctor kiss and the Jack/Rose kiss exactly alike. (Check out the banner on my LJ for reference!)

But Doctor Who is a strange show when it comes to sex: written for children, but with a certain joy in innuendo. (In one scene, someone refers to Jack as "captain of the innuendo squad".) So. In the story that introduces Jack, "dancing" is a repeated metaphor for sex.

Canonically, Jack is in love with the Doctor. The Doctor's feelings for Jack are less clearly articulated and more complicated. Whether they've actually had a sexual relationship is left ambiguous; personally, I have no doubt.

[auriaephiala.livejournal.com]

I recently read an article about how torture really isn't a very efficient method for gathering information - I bet Gwen has a better success rate than anyone at Gitmo, heh

Good point!

Yes, the articles I've read on this from professional interrogators indicate you get more from unconsidered trifles/details that prisoners let drop -- which you can then fit with other info to form an entire picture. And that having a prisoner be friendly towards you is much more likely to gain information than to have them busily making up stuff because they want to stop the pain.

[omnivorously.livejournal.com]

I think Jack figured that out eventually himself, based on how he dealt with John. But making threats of pain must be a good tactic when you're in a hurry, and dealing with someone bleeding and confused, as Jack does ... I forget what episode.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

the articles I've read on this from professional interrogators indicate you get more from unconsidered trifles/details that prisoners let drop

Makes me wonder if Gwen might have guessed more of Jack's story than she has let him know.

having a prisoner be friendly towards you is much more likely to gain information than to have them busily making up stuff because they want to stop the pain.

Gwen is good at that. I also like the way Jack and Ianto shared the duties of interrogating the clawed man in "Combat".

[omnivorously.livejournal.com]

It's something about the bone structure, and the eyes. *shrug*

Who is written for children? Really? Heh, I'm gonna have to rewatch "The Doctor Dances". Or maybe it's bc I didn't watch "The Empty Child" first. Does that mean that Jack is a voyeur? XD

Oh poor Jack. And poor Ianto, Jack isn't quite what you need, is he?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

as Jack does ... I forget what episode.

"Countrycide", the one with the cannibals.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Who is written for children? Really?

Well... it's marketed for children. It's been watched by generations of British kids since the 1960s, which probably explains a lot about the British national character. It's shown before the "watershed", which means kids are expected to watch it - and they are very, very careful to keep it child-friendly while still making it scary and intelligent, which is an interesting tightrope that I'm glad I don't have to walk. (There's a long and famous tradition of British kids hiding behind the settee to watch and not-watch at the same time while "Doctor Who" is on.)

So this is why in Doctor Who there is no overt sex (even when there is romance), and in Torchwood there is sex. Except that they are showing a second version of Torchwood now that it slightly edited to be more youth-friendly. Hmm.

I find it interesting, for example, that when Jack and Rose meet, he doesn't kiss her lips, he kisses her hands. While they are dancing. It maybe isn't as overt, but strikes me as being extremely sensuous.

I'm gonna have to rewatch "The Doctor Dances". Or maybe it's bc I didn't watch "The Empty Child" first.

It's a good idea to watch both together, it being all one story. But most of the punchlines are in "The Doctor Dances". The moments when Jack and the Doctor meet are fun: Rose has told Jack that her Time Agent colleague is named Doctor Spock and the Doctor is somewhat confused by his new name.

Does that mean that Jack is a voyeur? XD

Would you doubt it?

poor Ianto, Jack isn't quite what you need, is he?

This is... a lot of the reason I find it such fun to watch.

As for "Poor Jack": I absolutely love "The Parting of the Ways", but where Jack's part in it is concerned, it totally breaks my heart every time.

[raissad.livejournal.com]

True. Did you get a chance to listen to that TW Behind-The-Scenes show on Radio Wales, yet? There were some good bits, including GDL talking about JB.

[duncanmac.livejournal.com]

This is where you want to check out the vendor in advance. Some computer sales places are shipping Windows Vista with every new PC ... no questions asked or accepted. It's rather like the old joke about the Ford Model T: "any color you want, as long as it's black".

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Don't worry - I wouldn't buy from someone who would do that!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

N, haven't listened to that yet. Looking forward to it.