Torchwood: musing on relationships...

[fajrdrako]

And this review of the first episode of series 2 Torchwood sounds too good to be true, with lines like "the best episode the series has produced to date" and "Doctor Who with the brakes off".

I heard a lot of complaints about Chris Chibnall's writing when his episodes aired - they were "Day One", "Cyberwoman" and "Countrycide" - but personally, I liked them all. Of the three, I liked "Countrycide" least, because horror isn't my genre, and because I didn't much like the Gwen/Owen relationship. I thought that aside from thematic issues, the whole season desperately lacked both polish and a sense of humour.

The episodes I liked least, from the point of view of the writing, were "Ghost Machine" - Helen Raynor does not impress me in any way - and "They Keep Killing Suzie", although the stopwatch scene did a lot to make me forgive the episode's various lapses.

The best writer of the first season was Cath Treganna, but I enjoyed the scripts Noel Clarke, Russell T. Davies and Chris Chibnall. I have complained loud and long about the writing problems in first season Torchwood, and it sounds as if they may have corrected them. Most came, I believe, from scripts written too fast, not polished enough, not integrated enough. But one of the problems was conceptual: the fact that most of the plots happened because someone on the Torchwood team was doing either something either illegal or incompetent. Faugh. Not what I look for in heroes.

Looks as if they might have fixed that.

The most intriguing lines in the review have to do with Ianto. Now, I like Ianto. I don't love Ianto because he's been so much of an unknown. Except for the Lisa/Torchwood theme, we know almost nothing about him except that he likes word-play. I would assume that he also likes sex with Jack, but nothing we see in series 1 actually indicates that.... One of the greatest disappointments was that there was no thematic follow-up to his propositioning of Jack in "The Keep Killing Suzie". There was no marked difference in their treatment of each other, nothing happened that couldn't have happened if the stopwatch scene wasn't there; the only indication that Ianto loved Jack, as far as I could see, was the Brokeback/greatcoat moment in "End of Days" - and that was a very welcome moment for sure. But even that could have happened if Ianto and Jack had never touched each other. As for Jack loving Ianto - we know he loves all the Torchwood team. He told the other Captain Jack "there's no one". He ran after the Doctor at the first whiff of the TARDIS noise without a glance backwards, and quite right, too.

So what does it add up to? Sounds as if we'll find out.

Truth to tell, I'd love Ianto a lot more if he hadn't betrayed Jack in "End of Days". If he'd been the only holdout on the team, the one to stand by Jack, right or wrong - I'd have been completely won over. I'd have worshipped the Welsh ground he walks on.

As it is, I find him a confusing combination of unexplained characteristics. Reasonably clever, reasonably brave, but there isn't so much focus that I can even judge how clever, or how brave. He's quiet and self-contained, occasionally hysterical - and that, by the way, is a mark in his favour, even if I don't quite know what to make of it - and always seems oddly immature. He's twenty-five, if he's Gareth David-Lloyd's age, but I think of him as a formless teen still learning about the world. He worked at Torchwood Three, so he shouldn't be naive about the world, even if traumatized. So why does he seem so young to me?

Maybe it's just the Torchwood syndrome: in season one the team all seems to bring out the worst in each other. Toshiko badly needs connection to someone else, but remains shy and isolated. Gwen meddles and cares and interferes and ends up consistently in the wrong bed. Not really the wrong bed - I came to enjoy her affair with Owen - but I don't think it did either of them any good. And Jack didn't seem to care enough to take much leadership on either a personal or a professional basis, though the did so in fits and starts - with Toshiko at the end of "Greeks Bearing Gifts", for example. One of my favourite scenes.

If this review is anything to go by, things are looking up for next season.

Comments

[teenygozer.livejournal.com]

But one of the problems was conceptual: the fact that most of the plots happened because someone on the Torchwood team was either something either illegal or incompetent.

That pretty much sums up my problem with Torchwood right there! Actually, I don't mind the "illegal" so much -- these folks have power that the ordinary citizenry do not possess, and power corrupts; I totally think anyone in their situation would take advantage and come to think themselves unbound by the petty laws governing the average citizen. No, it's the stupid that burns! Toshiko chirps, "I'm Japanese!" quite loudly and definitively at the party to a large group of people she has already said hate the Japanese instead of taking the easy out of claiming alternate citizenry at the moment when she could easily have demurred, thus derailing the building situation. She *knows* these are the exact sort of people who persecuted her grandfather and that she is in a potentially dangerous place, but she behaves the entire time with little in the way of thought for her own minute-to-minute self-preservation. The problem was that the plot demanded the menfolk band together to save the little lady's ass in order to prove what mensches the Captains Jack are, so poor Tosh had to be the idiot damsel in distress in the situation instead of handling herself properly. I could easily pull out a similar situation of dim-itude for each of the characters. At some point or another, each has proven to the audience that they don't have the sense god gave a goose.

Maybe it's just the Torchwood syndrome: in season one the team all seems to bring out the worst in each other.

I have to say, I love a situation where disparate people are tossed together, they grate on one another, and snark ensues. I loved Blake's 7 and adore SGA for this reason. But in the end, the gang *MUST* pull it together and work as a team when the going gets tough in order to keep me on their side. It doesn't have to go smoothly, as if suddenly they are best buds, but they have to make the attempt and succeed as a team. It seemed to me that in Season 1, each of the Torchwood team has been, one way or another, some sort of asocial prima donna where it's all about me, me, me; my pain, my emo. To the point where it's almost hilarious. When Toshiko gets the mind-reading pendant and all she hears from Ianto is this PMSy, moody wail about how sad it all is, I actually sang, "...and the worms ate into his brain!" (from Pink Floyd's emo-tastic song, Hey You), sending my husband of into a fit of laughter. Jack's little impromptu character assessment/assassination of the team in End of Days just before Owen shoots him was likewise hilarious, and pretty much encapsulated my feelings about the gang.

The few times they have banded together and succeeded brilliantly, they do not seem to learn from it. It's like they have to learn how to work properly together over & over, with two steps back for every step forward they take. I blame Jack, who is a hands-off leader right up until the moment he gives out a high-handed edict with no backing or explanation to his decision. If Jack were a better leader, he'd be pulling them together better, showing them how to work together.

And yet I like the show a lot. REALLY A LOT! Go figure. I hope second season gifts these characters with better scripts that don't make them look like spoiled, dopey teenagers.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Whether I mind or don't mind the 'illegal' aspects varies from indicent to incident. One of the things I love most about Torchwood is the extra-legal aspect of both the organizatoin and of Captain Jack himself. I am convinced (and canon has so far not proved me wrong) that Torchwood as it now stands is a con perpetuated by Jack on the foundations of the original Torchwood, now destroyed and lost. It's a fabrication, but Jack's authority, based on absolutely nothing (except maybe odds and ends of psychic paper and plausible extrapolation), is so convincing that he can get away with just about anything. But Jack, operating carefully within the sense of morality he learned from the Doctor, is saving the world with his tissue of lies.

That, I absolutely love. It's one of my favourite story foundations anyway. The creative powers of lies and fictions to effect real change and benefit the world.

I would quite possibly like the 'illegal' aspects of behaviour by the others if it weren't all mixed up with the 'stupid'.

Yes, it was stupid of Tosh to say "I'm Japanese" in the middle of a crowd of British/American servicemen in 1941. Just as it was stupid for Gwen to let Suzie out of the Hub in "They Keep Killing Suzie" - and she loses extra points for knowing it was stupid and still doing it. It was stupid of Tosh to talk about Torchwood to a strange girl she met in a bar, however attractive the girl might be. And so on... it seems worse to me when the stupidity is perpetuated by a character I like.

I would love, absolutely love, Tosh to be a sharp, smart, courageous action hero. She's almost there now. But she does and says such dumb things so consistently - and turns to others to support and protect her.

I love a situation where disparate people are tossed together, they grate on one another, and snark ensues. I loved Blake's 7 and adore SGA for this reason

I'd have said I like that situation too, on the whole, but I don't like either Blake's 7 or SGA so maybe I don't like it.

Jack's little impromptu character assessment/assassination of the team in End of Days just before Owen shoots him was likewise hilarious, and pretty much encapsulated my feelings about the gang.

I love that scene. I really do. Jack seemed so oblivious, so it was great that he wasn't oblivious -he was just ignoring them, basically.

This whole thing about "a team of very different people who have to learn to work together" makes me think of X-Men. Only... as far as I can see... Jack doesn't do much to help. When he trains them, he does so individually. He helps them individually, but not collectively, and he let's Gwen to do the team-spirit thing, like playing basketball or asking embarrassing questions, and it always backfires because Gwen has no tact.

So I hope they do better next series!

And yet I like the show a lot. REALLY A LOT! Go figure.

Yes, me too. I complain about the flaws and the dumb stories and I make excuses for it and I love it despite it flaws. Why? I'm not even sure, aside from visceral reactions to Captain Jack, and a love of the idea of Torchwood, and the Doctor Who connection. In some ways I love it more than I would love a more perfect show.

[teenygozer.livejournal.com]

Jack doesn't do much to help. When he trains them, he does so individually. He helps them individually, but not collectively, and he let's Gwen to do the team-spirit thing, like playing basketball or asking embarrassing questions, and it always backfires because Gwen has no tact.

It's even worse than that, re: Jack. He seems to literally undercut anyone trying to do the job of pulling the team together; I remember thinking that it was as if he was trying to stop anyone from having too much power in order to increase his own power in the group, or that he likes having everyone off-balance.

Now that you've got me thinking about it, I have to say the single most disruptive influence in the group that stands in the way of them becoming a team isn't Jack, it's Owen! Owen and his often-vicious, always sexist, bully-boy 'tude. For seemingly no particular reason other than he has a bug up his butt, Owen sows anger and dissent whenever possible and with great enjoyment, and he has this undercurrent of potential violence to him -- but we've also seen that Jack can yank back on Owen's leash when he can bother himself to do it and that Owen behaves the better for it. Yet Jack gives Owen free reign on this clearly unprofessional behavior, and it's unclear why. I don't like Owen but I confess to finding him interesting. It's always a surprise when he does something doctor-y, because *yes*, he's the medical officer, because if there's anyone less likely to give a hang about the well-being of his fellow man, it's Owen; I keep slotting him into "mercenary" or "professional soldier" in my mind. And it's odd that they keep having women fall for his charms, as I'd have though the unattractive-as-a-monkey/abrasive personality combo would be something of a turn-off. Maybe he's still using that alien date-rape drug as an aftershave? I'd like to see a character arc for him where he either becomes a better person or goes completely rogue and has to be put down permanently. Wouldn't he make a believable super-villain? ;)

[raissad.livejournal.com]

I just want consistency from the show. That's what I felt was missing last year.

Talk about Owen, part 1

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I don't think Jack shows much sign of wanting to increase or even emphasize his power in the Torchwood team; I think that his was the opposite - sort of laissez-faire, he let's them do their own thing, and generally doesn't pay as much attention as he should as long as the world isn't ending. (Which of course it does on a regular basis, especially if you factor in the novels.)

This leaves him with less authority than he might have when it comes to significant command issues, like 'should we open the Rift?'

I have to say the single most disruptive influence in the group that stands in the way of them becoming a team isn't Jack, it's Owen!

I always thought so. Remember the scene in "Day One", where Gwen tries to strangle Owen, and Jack says "Throttling the staff is my job" - ? And then he still doesn't throttle or reprimand Owen, and I was thinking, "Why does he let Owen get away with so much?" I don't know the answer to that - maybe Owen's blackmailing him, maybe he doesn't care, maybe he has a strategy in mind we don't know about, maybe he sees too much of himself in Owen. In any case, Owen gets away with all sorts of things he shouldn't, and Jack doesn't stop him. (Except occasionally to make a snarky comment.)

we've also seen that Jack can yank back on Owen's leash when he can bother himself to do it and that Owen behaves the better for it.

I think I'd be willing to argue that they have an odd game of psychological issues going on - it seems to me that Owen both wants Jack's approval and sabotages his ability to get it by challening Jack's authority and defying him, or simply doing things Jack wouldn't like (like seducing Gwen). Then when Jack does fire him, in "End of Days" - Owen is devastated, in a 'how could you do this to me?' sort of way, even though I was thinking, 'you've had this coming, buddy, ever since you used alien technology to get laid back in "Everything Changes".'

But at the same time, Jack doesn't fire Owen for challenging his authority, or breaking the rules or doing something stupid, he fires Owen for openly questioning his identity. To my eyes it reeks of unresolved parental issues. Do you think Jack could be secretly Owen's father?

I don't like Owen but I confess to finding him interesting.

So do I. And he becomes more interesting as the series goes on - his affair with Gwen, his love of Diane, his self-destructive games with the Weevils and with the Rift. When he declared himself ready to die to get back Diane or Jack in "Captain Jack Harkness", I thought there was quite a suicidal impulse there. And it's interesting that there was a certain equalization there of Jack and Diane in Owen's perspective.

Talk about Owen, part 2

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

It's always a surprise when he does something doctor-y

And when he does it well! He seems out of character when that happens. I've always assumed he lost his job as a regular doctor in a hospital because of professional misconduct rather than incompetence (quite possibly sexual misconduct with a patient-?) and it comes as a shock to me to reflect that the show never actually says so. In fact, we don't know how or why Owen got his Torchwood job. We see how Gwen got hers. We might guess that Jack hired both Toshiko and Ianto because they had a (tenuous) connection with the Doctor (from "Aliens of London" and "Doomsday"). But Owen? I haven't a clue how he got there.

Might be fun to ask on one of the communities, see if anyone has a theory.

it's odd that they keep having women fall for his charms, as I'd have though the unattractive-as-a-monkey/abrasive personality combo would be something of a turn-off

Since I find him most unattractive, I thought that too. But apparently Russell T. Davies finds him attractively sexy in a bad-boy sort of way - he said so in one of the Classifieds. I was gobsmacked. This makes no sense to me - Jack is sexy in a bad-boy sort of way, but Owen? Not in the least! Still... we may all just be playing to the tune of Davies' taste in men and his casting choice.

Maybe he's still using that alien date-rape drug as an aftershave?

That's a better theory than most!

I'd like to see a character arc for him where he either becomes a better person or goes completely rogue and has to be put down permanently. Wouldn't he make a believable super-villain? ;)

He'd be terrific! Especially since he seems to take a certain perverse glee in being mean to others - e.g., baiting Gwen with sexist comments when she was new on the job, dumping her rudely when he was upset about Diane - not even wanting to take the time to be nice to someone he's trying to seduce - even Mary the alien sexual predator was willing to seduce Tosh by talking to her.

Makes me all the more curious about what they might have in store for Owen in series 2.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Yes, I think so too. I sometimes had the impression that the writers weren't communicating much with each other, so there was no fluidity or consistency from one episode to the next. They must have known and incorporated the big story arc bits, but it was awkward and uneven - showing a lack of polish and certain a lack of what it needed most - a build-up of tension towards the finale.

Instead, we were left thinking, "Huh? What's going on here?" when the climax came.

I think it needed more consistency and more polish, so it didn't seem to disjointed.

[atheneunknown.livejournal.com]

I'm so excited about this season, because like you said, I've loved this show so deeply even as flawed as it is.

The idea of Torchwood 3 being a con, thats just brilliant. Never thought of it really, but god would it ever work in my head.

As for the whole Owen debate, I think the reason women swoon over him is because he doesn't fake it. I'm sure half of what goes thru the minds of everyone else on that team is 10times as evil as what comes out of Owens mouth. But at least he's got the balls to say it. Sometimes that makes a person easier to deal with.

I was told that the episodes were filmed and intended to be aired in a different order then they actually were. I think that is what really botched the continuity. Last minute changes like that, are just never ever a good thing.

I'm just going to be happy to see Jack again. I really am. I missed him so much, even DW over the summer didn't kill the craving. He's such an inspiration to me as a writer, I feel lost without that bit of him. Though I'm going to be rewatching the entire series of Torchwood before the show airs, so we'll see if maybe it comes rushing back.

[silverwhistle.livejournal.com]

Oooh! I can't wait!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I know they say patience is a virtue, but no one ever said it was easy! I'm squirming already and there's something like five weeks to go.

At least we get the Christmas Doctor Who to look forward to in the meantime. For some reason I keep forgetting the title - is it "Voyage of the Drowned"? I know "Feast of the Drowned" was the audio-book.

I also have episodes of The Sarah Jane Adventures I haven't watched yet, which sadly won't give me more of Captain Jack, but is fun anyway.

I was trying to be cool about all this, I really was. And I have failed miserably!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

The idea of Torchwood 3 being a con, thats just brilliant. Never thought of it really, but god would it ever work in my head.

It works in my head. It's just so very like Jack, to take advantage of the situation for his own (better) purposes.

I'm sure half of what goes thru the minds of everyone else on that team is 10times as evil as what comes out of Owens mouth. But at least he's got the balls to say it.

That's true - he doesn't skirt around issues. He's very honest.

I wonder if he is set up to be the exact opposite to Gwen in personality. She's kind but dishonest; he's unkind but honest. He's smart about people's bodies, about medicine; she's smart about their feelings - though both Gwen and Owen are quite manipulative.

I was told that the episodes were filmed and intended to be aired in a different order then they actually were.

Do you know what the order was supposed to be? There are a few bits of continuity, like Owen's affairs with Gwen and then with Diane, where the continuity doesn't look as if it could be changed. But that would explain why we get such neutrality in the Jack/Ianto relationship - why it's just not referred to.

Last minute changes like that, are just never ever a good thing.

And hopefully that's the kind of thing that will be fixes in series 2.

even DW over the summer didn't kill the craving

No, it didn't! The novels helped me, but I've finished them now.

I think I might watch the series again too. Good idea!

[silverwhistle.livejournal.com]

I've just posted the batch of Radio Times cuttings I've been collecting for you, and a Forbidden Planet catalogue. There's even an action figure of Sarah-Jane's alien poet friend (I think the same species as Tosh's girlfriend Mary) – if you put a battery in, she lights up!

[silverwhistle.livejournal.com]

I wonder if he is set up to be the exact opposite to Gwen in personality. She's kind but dishonest; he's unkind but honest. He's smart about people's bodies, about medicine; she's smart about their feelings - though both Gwen and Owen are quite manipulative.

Yes. I think that's it, spot on. There are some interesting contrasts within the group: Ianto is also a reverse of Owen, while Tosh is also a reverse of Gwen, and a female counterpart to Ianto.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

This train of thought hadn't occurred to me before, but I love it. The interconnections, and contrasts - and yes, of course Toshiko is also a reverse Gwen, in different ways, being attuned to electronics and mathematics rather than to people.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much. I anticipate it eagerly. (May Canada Post do its thing without waiting

There's even an action figure of Sarah-Jane's alien poet friend (I think the same species as Tosh's girlfriend Mary) – if you put a battery in, she lights up!

How wonderful! I wonder if she waves her tentacles?

I like the species - I wonder if we will see any of them again. Since we've already seen them twice, it doesn't seem unlikely.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Sarah-Jane's alien poet friend

As far as I can remember, that species and their planet was never named either in Torchwood or in The Sarah Jane Adventures. Is it given a name in the Forbidden Planet catalogue?

[silverwhistle.livejournal.com]

I think she's just called a "Star Poet" or something of that sort.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

But that's a lovely phrase - "star poet". What a nice thing to be.