Torchwood: A lovely evening with Beulah...

[fajrdrako]

A while back, Beulah was telling me that she was watching Torchwood with our friend Lionel. Lionel has never struck me as being gay-friendly in any way, and I thought Beulah would enjoy the episode "Captain Jack Harkness" more if she saw it with me first. So I explained this to her, and explained why, and invited her over to see it. She accepted the invitation with alacrity.

And she loved it. When Jack and Jack started dancing, she said, "In 1941 - that's so brave - it shows how much they care about each other." When the rift opened, she said, "Jack, move, hurry up, the Rift's going to close!"

Interestingly, the place where her reaction most surprised me, was when Owen and Ianto were fighting. She asked me which was the bad guy, and which was the good guy. I made a non-commital answer. "I don't trust the one with the gun," she said. "Not after his cyber-girlfriend." I know that by the time I first saw "Captain Jack Harkness" I trusted Ianto completely and didn't trust Owen an inch - but she hasn't seen all the episodes in between "Cyberwoman" and "Captain Jack Harkness" yet, so that might explain it.

She heartily approved of our Captain Jack's advice carpe diem advice to the other Jack about 'making the most of today because it might be all you ever get'.

Then we watched The Mrs. Bradley Mysteries, the second one of the DVD collection. We'd already watched the first one, "Death at the Opera" a while back, and were delighted to see it had David Tennant in it as Max Valentine. Since I have a thing for Mrs. Bradley's chauffeur, George Moody (played by Neil Dudgeon), I still want to write a story slashing George and the elegant Valentine.

The second episode is "The Rising of the Moon", which is, if anything, a little campier and cuter. It's about a murder in an English village in the 1920s, of a Traveller in a knife-throwing act. I had the murderer pegged almost as soon as the character appeared, but that was okay - this kind of mystery is more for the atmosphere and comedy than the puzzle. As before, I adored George. It was fun to see Peter Davison as Inspector Christmas again, too.

That reminded me that I hadn't shown Beulah "Time Crash", so I did.

All in all, a lovely, relaxing evening of TV and conversation, just what I needed. Even the budgies enjoyed themselves - until they were banished to the bedroom for singing too loudly and making it difficult to hear Torchwood.

Comments

[darthhellokitty.livejournal.com]

If I'd gone straight from Cyberwoman to CJH, I wouldn't have trusted Ianto either! Interesting to think about...

[msp-hacker.livejournal.com]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: There needs to be a Who episode where they're all dressed in 1920's clothing. Or at the very least, Jack in 1920's clothing. Yum.

[chatona.livejournal.com]

Good to hear you had fun :D and Captain Jack Harkness definitely makes for a good evening, doesn't it?

About Owen and Ianto... I'm going to have to re-watch that episode before I give any kind of statement. Which'll probably take me, oh, just about ages, since I plan to re-watch them as I write up those random recap rambles (if people want to read them, that is) and a character essay on Owen...
But as far as I remember, I didn't like either in that scene too much. I remember that I thought Ianto had a point and I hated the way Owen made hurtful comments, but I didn't like either in that particular scene. But I could understand their respective motivation, so that makes it okay.

[silverwhistle.livejournal.com]

Even the budgies enjoyed themselves - until they were banished to the bedroom for singing too loudly and making it difficult to hear Torchwood.

Snurk! That's what I love about budgies – cheerful little feathered folk, with no concept of volume-control or appropriateness!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

cheerful little feathered folk, with no concept of volume-control or appropriateness!

The word 'irrepressible' was invented to describe budiges. Browsing in a bookstore today, I saw a book called "The Well-Bahaved Parrot". I then started looking for "The Well-Behaved Budgie" but of course there was no such book - how could there be?

What with playing on their mirror-swing, and Jubilee's recent penchant for playing in the hamster wheel, they have been particularly cute lately.

And loud.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Captain Jack Harkness definitely makes for a good evening, doesn't it?

I certainly think so! I was delighted that Beulah wanted to see it, and I have other friends who said they wanted to see it again, and I'm happy to watch it any number of times.

as far as I remember, I didn't like either in that scene too much

Contrariwise, I think it's my favourite episode for either of them. I love Ianto in "Cyberwoman" but I love him more here because he is upholding the right as he thinks Jack intends and wants - in other words, I love it that Ianto is trying so hard to carry out Jack's wishes. I love seeing a rivalry for position between them, and this is one of the very few times I can really see Owen's point of view - his need, his pain, his belief that this will save Jack and maybe recover Diane. I also like it that he is smart enough to get the 'missing piece' from Bilis, though I still don't understand how that fits into the logic of the story. Did Bilis steal the piece from Jack in the first place? Hmm, there might be a story there.

In any case, this is the only episode in which I really like Owen (with a nod to a few other scenes in a few other episodes) and it's the one in which I most love Ianto. Ianto lost a lot of my respect when he turned on Jack in "End of Days", but I loved him here.

And I loved his hurtful comments to Ianto, because they focussed on the Jack/Ianto relationship, highlighting its importance to Ianto (even if he thought it was a secret) and on Owen's perceptiveness.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

There needs to be a Who episode where they're all dressed in 1920's clothing.

Oh, yes, yes, yes! Can't you just see Jack with Max Valentine? I practically swoon at the thought. And Rose or Martha as a flapper. I'd so love to see that. I have a lot of favourite people from the 1920s - I'm tempted to write stories about Jack meeting a number of them. Louise Brooks, for example. Or Ivor Novello. Or Noel Coward. Wouldn't that be scrumptious?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I think Beulah also saw "Countrycide" (and was totally grossed out by it). Now, I was an Ianto-lover from the beginning and even in "Cyberwoman" I trusted him completely - his intent wasn't so much betrayal of Torchwood as protection of Lisa, and that made me believe that he was loyal to the end, to those he loves. And so he proves to be, right up until "End of Days", and I'm still angry with him for betraying Jack then - much more so than Owen, whose motives were much more understandable and consistent.

So in "Captain Jack Harkness" I adore Ianto and I'm rooting for him all the way, and I'm one of those people who were cheering when he shot Owen. But. I love Owen there too, because he's so lost, so much in pain, and so determined.

[silverwhistle.livejournal.com]

Aw! There must be more cute budgie-photos!

I then started looking for "The Well-Behaved Budgie" but of course there was no such book - how could there be?

I think it's an oxymoron.

[chatona.livejournal.com]

I understand their respective motivation in this scene and I think it's rather well written, so from an objective point of view, I liked it very much. But on a gut level? Not so much.

But then, I really like Owen in a lot of the other episodes and I do like that we get to see a glimpse behind his facade in this scene, but that's on that objective level again.

And I loved his hurtful comments to Ianto, because they focussed on the Jack/Ianto relationship, highlighting its importance to Ianto (even if he thought it was a secret) and on Owen's perceptiveness.
That's a good point. Can I steal what you said about Owen's perceptiveness for the character essay I'm writing up on Owen? Can I? Please? *puppy dog eyes*

[bunsen-h.livejournal.com]

Possibly of interest: it appears that the library does have one video recording of Doctor Who, with Tom Baker: Pyramids of Mars. His companion is Sarah Jane Smith, too. I'm not sure how you'll react to it -- it's a weird mish-mash of "the Egyptian gods were space aliens" stuff.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Now, how did I miss that? Thank you so much for pointing it out to me - I've requested it. We'll see what I think. I wouldn't expect to like it, mostly because I don't like watching TV shows from the past, but I do like Sarah Jane Smith... we shall see.

-- it's a weird mish-mash of "the Egyptian gods were space aliens"

Which is one of the reasons I don't like Stargate!

[duncanmac.livejournal.com]

Even the budgies enjoyed themselves ...

I'm not surprised. It makes me think of that well-known phrase "birds of a feather ..."

I'd still like to meet you for a video party one of these days. I've been advised that my working hours are up for review ... I'm hoping I can get them changed sometime soon. [crossing fingers ... and toes ...]

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Good luck with the working hours!

I haven't been doing anything in the way of video-parties lately because I find it just too exhausting to do anything after work. And this means all my errands and housework get left to the weekends, leaving almost no time to do anything then, either.

But I'm working on the challenge of both cutting back on all the things I'm trying to do, and keeping up with things.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

on a gut level? Not so much.

It's all gut level for me.

I really like Owen in a lot of the other episodes

How's your reaction to him in general? Gut level?

Can I steal what you said about Owen's perceptiveness for the character essay I'm writing up on Owen? Can I? Please? *puppy dog eyes*

Yes, of course.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I'll try to take more photos. They are practising their poses daily.

[silverwhistle.livejournal.com]

The idea of a budgie in a hamster wheel appeals especially!

[chatona.livejournal.com]

How's your reaction to him in general? Gut level?

I like him. I really, really like him. Objectively speaking I realise that he has a lot of faults, but on a gut level?
His sarcastic remarks amuse me to no end, his expressions fill me with utter glee, I like the way he moves.
I like to think he's rather dysfunctional (which shall or shan't be proven in my character essay) and I do have this thing for angst and for people with issues and for dysfunctional persons in fiction. So that probably explains why I felt drawn to Owen in the first place. Or maybe it was the sarcasm. I can't decide *flails*
But, yeah. On a gut level, Owen is a character I love very much.

And thanks for letting me steal it *beams*

.. I need an Owen icon. I want my paid account back, damn it *pokes lj*

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I love your comments about Owen, because it's all just about the opposite of what I feel. In fact, everything you say about Owen could be, with me, applied to Gwen.

I have learned to love Owen's story and his role, mostly because of the way it was written. But his character, on a gut level, sends me running for the hills. I too like characters with dysfunctions and troubles, but not Owen. Not at all. Instinctive aversion. So much so that I found myself thinking, "How could Gwen bear to have him touch her?" and "Why doesn't Jack just fire him, when he breaks the rules and gives him so much trouble?"

So my... appreciation... of Owen is all intellectual, not emotional. And with Gwen it's entirely the opposite.

I only ever had a paid LJ account briefly. It was great. But I am poor.

[chatona.livejournal.com]

That's funny, I think. 'cause I can appreciate Gwen's character on an intellectual level and I even managed to work out, on that same level, why I don't like her on a gut-level, but my gut-level response to her is similar to yours to Owen.

I had a paid account for a year because my best friend, ele5 is a wonderful, wonderful person. But, alas, I am poor, too. It's sad. Otherwise, I'd have tons more icons. I love icons.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Jubilee thinks it's just the thing.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

So do we agree about the other Torchwood characters?

I adore Jack in every way: he's the reason I love the show.
I like Ianto, sometimes more than other times, and wish we knew more about him. I don't know how to read him.
I love Toshiko and wish she would show more presence. I like her best when she's in action.

[chatona.livejournal.com]

We most definitely agree on Jack. I like Ianto most of the time, sometimes he annoys me, though. I can apparently write him well and I think he's an interesting enough character. I absolutely love Toshiko and wish she would show more presence, too.

Seems like we both have about the same ideas, only the roles of Gwen and Owen are switched *grins*

[filkferengi]

The Mrs. Bradley Mysteries rock! I saw them on PBS years ago, & loved them madly. I have the dvds. When you come to GaFilk [http://www.gafilk.org/ --just ask andpuff, who comes most years], you can come to our house & watch nude!George on the 36" tv.

How's that for an inducement?

[weg]

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

As inducements go, that rates pretty darn high! Well done!

I don't know why I love George as much as I do, but he's magnificent.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Yes - interesting complimentary viewpoints. I rather like this.

I find that Ianto is fairly easy to write because you can take just about any conceivable approach, and canon doesn't get in the way.

[chatona.livejournal.com]

He could be, yeah. I found he wrote himself rather easily and his speech patterns are very easy to reproduce.

At some point, when I ever get that character essay on Owen written up, would you mind reading over it and tell me if any points are biased because I like him on a gut-level? Since your gut-level says the exact opposite of mine? *grins* Mind you, it might just take ages until I finish the essay *coughs*

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Ianto is easy to reproduce because, so far, he's such a 'what you see is what you get' kind of guy, except in his relationship with Jack, which you can interpret any way you want and really not get it wrong because we don't have enough information for anything to be right or wrong.

I'm not sure if I think this is cool, or frustrating.

Yes, I would be happy to read over your Owen essay - and there's no hurry.

[filkferengi]

I saw the dvd a couple of months ago, & know *exactly* why. ;)

[chatona.livejournal.com]

I find that in both Doctor Who and in Torchwood, us fangirls get an awful lot of freedom to make up our own canon. Sometimes, that frustrates me, because I'd like to know more about the characters, but most of the time, my brain is all too happy to supply my own personal canon.

Thanks :D

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I agree - and the only problem comes when the show takes my personal canon, to which I am happily attached, and stomps on it. But that's probably good for me, anyway.

[chatona.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that is particularly sad. Which is why my own canon will be worked into the epic and be called AU and it'll be good.

I'm only good with accepting actual canon over my personal canon if I like actual canon better and that's sometimes hard to do 'cause personal canon is always my best case scenario.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Personal canon is the best of all worlds, especially when the show doesn't contradict it.

[chatona.livejournal.com]

I agree :D