Fannish 5: Funny dialogue and Firefly ruminations...

[fajrdrako]

From the Aug. 10 fannish5: Name five of the funniest lines of dialogue.

At first this looked impossible. I never remember humour. Some shows like Doctor Who and Veronica Mars are full of bits I think brilliant witty, but can I remember the funny bits? Never. And my favourite books - like Lymond's line about Philippa and the weasels, or Miles Vorkosigan pretending to be someone or something he's not - can I remember this sort of thing? Almost never.

Then last night I watched the Firefly episode "Objects in Space" - which I think is possibly the best-written episode of a show with generally brilliant writing, so that's saying a lot. All of the carefully crafted characterization and world-building came together in that episode, which is suspenseful, scary, and incredibly funny.

So I'm picking all five of my 'favourite funny dialogue' choices out of one episode of one show.

1. [Dr. Simon Tam is talking to Mal Reynolds about the condition of Simon's sister, River.]
   Mal: I want a lot of medical jargon thrown at me, I'll talk to a doctor.
   Simon: You are talking to a doctor.



2. Mal: We're at the corner of no and where.



3. Wash: Psychic, though? That sounds like something out of science fiction.
   Zoe: We live in a spaceship, dear.



4. Jayne: If wishes were horses, we'd all be eating steak.



5. Simon: You're out of your mind.
   Early: That's between me and my mind.

maaboroshi had some interesting observations, which set us speculating in a certain way. Of course, the bright minds of Firefly fandom may have discussed this for years already. Looking at the way the story is structured, we start out with a study of River, how she is unpredictable and dangerous, as when she picks up the gun, seeing it as a twig. I was thinking how this makes so much more sense after you've seen the movie Serenity and have more of a sense of how River was programmed to fight. Then we see Jubal Early, who is eerily like River - she even comments on it: "I don't belong.… dangerous, like you." His speech and thought patterns are unpredictable (though often insightful) and have a certain quality that resonates very like River's. Especially when he fights, he is very like River in attach-mode, and there's one scene in which he pulls a gun and points it at someone behind him without looking, that is almost identical to River's motion in the same situation. He seems to know more than he should - knows that Book isn't a real Shepherd, for example.

So it seemed at first possible and the increasingly likely that Jubal early was also a student/experiment of whoever programmed River. He seems to be operating independently as a bounty hunter, which may be true - he may have left or escaped from his controllers, or he may simply have been programmed to believe that he is an independent bounty hunter while he is, in fact, working for them. That would make some sense of this passage:

Simon: So you're a bounty hunter.
Early: That ain't it at all.
Simon: Then what are you?
Early: I'm a bounty hunter.

I was reasoning, then, that if Early were a government puppet and we didn't know it, then Whedon was probably planning a sequel in future in which we'd learn more about what was going on with Early. And if that were the case, Early would survive. Mal says Early's chances of survival are "'bout one in.… a very large number", but it seems to me that Early's whimsically philosophical statement "Well, I'm here," much well be a programmed signal to his controllers to pick him up - an object in space, but a trackable one.

Interestingly, the episode does have another reference to people who are altered by experiment, when she refers to her exceptionally-endowed fourteen-year-old friend.

Coming back to this show after a year or two without watching, it seems better than ever.

Comments

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

Have you listened to the commentary at all? It's pretty interesting - for starters, the episode is apparently an attempt by Joss to use abstract ideas out of Sartre's Nausea mixed up with emotions. Oh, and he's a bit obsessed with River's feet.

If I remember it rightly, a lot of it is about how people see objects and how the very fact of an object is mind-blowing aside from any meaning assigned to it (which now reminds me of Caz at the end of Curse of Chalion, interesting). Early and River are very deliberately mirrored as both outsiders who don't see objects like the rest of the people on the ship, and in the way they are very tactile with objects and the way they move through the spaces. They're both not quite right, both dangerous and dangerously intuitive (though River is pyschic and Early apparently just has super-intuition). But River sees the gun as a branch, she gives it a meaning outside of being a weapon while Early sees it purely as functional, something finely crafted for a purpose of hurting.

It hadn't occurred to me that Early could have been an Alliance experiment too, that's a very interesting theory. Especially since in the commentary for Serenity, Joss makes a point of saying all the people who are pure products of the Alliance - River, Inara, the Operative - are very intuitive as well. It doesn't necessarily mean he is Alliance purpose-built/controlled, but it does imply he is very much part of an Alliance culture.

I don't know much about it, but there are comics written by Joss and someone else that fill the gap between the series and film, and I'm about 95% sure I'd heard Early was in those, because I remember thinking "but surely he died?" so it looks like someone picked him up.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Have you listened to the commentary at all?

I don't think so. I've listened to some of the commentaries, but not that one. I'd forgotten I hadn't. Note to self to do so....

n attempt by Joss to use abstract ideas out of Sartre's Nausea mixed up with emotions

Right. Can't say I'd have guessed that in a thousand years...

and he's a bit obsessed with River's feet.

Visually that worked well, though I'm not sure what to make of it thematically.

River sees the gun as a branch, she gives it a meaning outside of being a weapon while Early sees it purely as functional, something finely crafted for a purpose of hurting.

But he does see it as 'finely crafted', which is a conceptual step beyond the purely functional.

in the commentary for Serenity, Joss makes a point of saying all the people who are pure products of the Alliance - River, Inara, the Operative - are very intuitive as well.

Wonderful! That's a touch of vindication for my theory, then. Or something.

Early appears in the comics - ! I didn't remember. I should therefore reread them. I confess that when I did read them, they didn't make much of an impact - didn't, in my opinion, have much point. I should reread them with fresh eyes.

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

Right. Can't say I'd have guessed that in a thousand years...

Well, who would? French existentialism doesn't readily spring to mind watching most tv shows!

The feet thing is something to do with her relating to the ship, though I can't quite remember what.

But he does see it as 'finely crafted', which is a conceptual step beyond the purely functional

Which is how they are similar I think, but Early also sees its craft as part of its use - he says it's pretty, but that the point is the design of the thing is functional. River says it's just an object and that it doesn't mean what people think and her perception makes it something harmless. Early's doesn't.

I just think Early is in the comics - I haven't confirmed that from anywhere. I was thinking about tracking them down, but if you've read them and they didn't seem worth it, I may not bother.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

French existentialism doesn't readily spring to mind watching most tv shows!

No, though existentialism does crop up as a theme from time to time. Usually fairly heavily disguised! - As here.

Early also sees its craft as part of its use -

Perhaps a sign of how River's experimental transformation was interrupted - Simon rescued her, so there are still, as it were, unfinished areas of her programming where her self or subconscious fills in the gaps.

If and when I can remember where I put those comics, I'll reread them and let you know what I think now. I was mildly disappointed by them: I thought the stories were much weaker than in the TV show.

[lauradi7.livejournal.com]

That's my favorite episode as well (although I'd pick "Out of Gas" if I were trying to get someone hooked on the series).
It's so interesting what people think is funny. I really like the lines "corner of no and where" and "that's between me and my mind" but I don't find any of your choices funny. The one about living on a spaceship was noted with scorn on the Television Without Pity review as being too meta. I agree - it pulled me out of the plot for a sec.
My vote for humor in the episode - Inara's response to Jayne saying that he didn't want anybody what was in his was that they didn't want to know what was in his mind either. Simon saying to Early "my sister was a ship. We had a complicated childhood." The whole scene in which Zoe removes the bullet while Wash eagerly mops her brow and Simon cheerfully remarks that he's about to pass out.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

That's my favorite episode as well (although I'd pick "Out of Gas" if I were trying to get someone hooked on the series).

I usually say "Out of Gas" is my favourite, and I watched it again tonight, and maybe it is my favourite - how to decide? Both those episodes are brilliant. "Objects in Space" is tighter, but "Out of Gas" has that wonderful structure of the three juxtaposed chronologies, and I love the way the relationships between each of the characters and all the others is delineated. there's a warmth between them all, too, that falls apart later.

Re funny: I laugh when hearing them on the show, but all my choices are both funny and not-funny, so whether they are meaningful or funny or something else (or all of the above) is unclear, and my thoughts on it are different at different times.

"We had a complicated childhood" - yes, I love that too, and the rather sweet irony of it. There are plenty of funny bits, but the story still manages not to be light or comical.

[trixtah.livejournal.com]

I love that ep too. I think it's the most "clever" one. I loved the line about living in a spaceship too (and the others).

Yes, I wondered about Early's origins too. And I also wonder where the Operatives come from - what was the cross-over (if any) between them and the bounty hunters, and River's programmers?

This was the ep where I really got to liking River as well. I wish it hadn't been pulled from TV!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I think it's the most "clever" one.

And it is so perfectly structured. But then, so is "Out of Gas", and I'm not sure I'm not just saying that because they are the two I have seen more recently... No, I know they're not, they're really two of the best and have stood the tests of time and them some. Amazing TV writing. Tim Minear: what's he doing now? (I miss Firefly and I miss The Inside.)

I also wonder where the Operatives come from - what was the cross-over (if any) between them and the bounty hunters, and River's programmers?

I wonder. I picture the Operatives as being something like the CIA or NSA - operatives within the structure of the Alliance government, though not part of it, and probably not entirely answerable to it. (I.e., given a fair autonomy to get their job done, not subject to laws that other people are. Some version of "licensed to kill".)

The Bounty Hunters presumably go for anyone who is wanted enough that it will be profitable to pay to get them.

And River's programmers - those scary guys with blue gloves? I don't know. The movie Serenity doesn't give us much background on them, but they do seem to be some sort of 'legitimate' operation, sanctioned by the Alliance. Well. Probably. I wish I knew!

I wish it hadn't been pulled from TV!

I wail loudly over that. I'm also glad that it didn't last long enough to be changed, to lose its way, to become dull or stupid. Maybe it never would. But I've thought that of other shows, which failed or betrayed me.

I really, really wish Wash and Book hadn't died; I find myself in denial over that, rewriting bits of the Serenity movie to be more in keeping with the style of the TV show.