We did only see Jack's facade in LotTL. It's like we see the light in someone's window, but not sure if he/she is really up there.
In "Utopia", we had a fair amount of his self-expression with regards to the situation, because he was talking honestly and freely with the Doctor and Martha. By "The Last of the Time Lords", he isn't talking much at all. It's all action. His interior thoughts are totally unexpressed, and his final conversation with the Doctor are of an entirely different tone - he's asking questions, but not making challenges and not revealing anything of himself.
I'm not sure we'll get any Jack's point of view about the events, later in the second series of Torchwood.
I suspect not; I don't think the Doctor will be mentioned. I'd like to be wrong, but don't have expectations of it. On the other hand, Martha's presence might warrant a mention of the Doctor - we shall see.
'Unrequited love never has to end.' OMG, RTD, tell me you didn't say that.
Did he? What's it from?
Ten is very much a narcissist. His relationship with everyone else is also a relationship with himself.
Yes, I agree. It's all echoes and mirrors. His acquaintances become thematic extensions of his own personality. Could it be that Martha expresses his rational side, which is one of the reasons why he can't engulf it or her in love? I like that idea; it explains a lot about his reactions to her. I still believe that he loves her, but has strong reasons for not expressing it. If she represents common sense and the intellect for him - and it would make perfect sense, on a symbolic level - then to return her love would be to destroy what she means to him on that symbolic level.
It's more so with the master, who IS himself, only in a dark mirror.... To love or forgive the Master is to love or forgive himself.
Yes, and loving the Master is a way of dealing with his own guilts and regrets. He probably even feels guilty for loving the Master, which intensifies both the guilt and the love and the irrationality of both. Add to this the Time War baggage, and the "last survivors" pattern - yes, we have the whole dark image thing going on. Even looking at the story of being eight years old and looking into the Time Vortex: the Doctor must think that he could have been the one who went mad, and the Master could have been the one who ran. "There but for the grace of God go I." Echoing selfhood all the way.
Ten said something about Jack being the only man Jack himself can be happy with. The words are even more right, if Ten is talking about himself.
That makes sense. I couldn't track the sense of this when the Doctor said it about Jack, because I think it is totally untrue of Jack. (Not to mention, it's an odd thing to say to someone who has remained devoted to you since you abandoned him 138 years earlier.) The thing about Jack isn't that he can't find happiness with anyone, it's that he can find happiness with practically anyone and everyone. He collects loves the way some people collect postage stamps. He's a classic example of "If you can't have the one you love, then love the one you're with". So he loves easily and often; and his love isn't even superficial or transient. It's bountiful.
how much Jack is like Ten is striking
They have more than big coats in common, though it should be noted that they have big coats in common! Long-lived travellers in space and time, self-appointed saviours with guilt in their past, both struggling with issues of loss and loneliness, both the only ones of their kind (when the Master isn't there).
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
timeasmymeasure
Babbling about Jack and the Doctor, part 1
Date: 2007-07-20 02:31 am (UTC)In "Utopia", we had a fair amount of his self-expression with regards to the situation, because he was talking honestly and freely with the Doctor and Martha. By "The Last of the Time Lords", he isn't talking much at all. It's all action. His interior thoughts are totally unexpressed, and his final conversation with the Doctor are of an entirely different tone - he's asking questions, but not making challenges and not revealing anything of himself.
I'm not sure we'll get any Jack's point of view about the events, later in the second series of Torchwood.
I suspect not; I don't think the Doctor will be mentioned. I'd like to be wrong, but don't have expectations of it. On the other hand, Martha's presence might warrant a mention of the Doctor - we shall see.
'Unrequited love never has to end.' OMG, RTD, tell me you didn't say that.
Did he? What's it from?
Ten is very much a narcissist. His relationship with everyone else is also a relationship with himself.
Yes, I agree. It's all echoes and mirrors. His acquaintances become thematic extensions of his own personality. Could it be that Martha expresses his rational side, which is one of the reasons why he can't engulf it or her in love? I like that idea; it explains a lot about his reactions to her. I still believe that he loves her, but has strong reasons for not expressing it. If she represents common sense and the intellect for him - and it would make perfect sense, on a symbolic level - then to return her love would be to destroy what she means to him on that symbolic level.
It's more so with the master, who IS himself, only in a dark mirror.... To love or forgive the Master is to love or forgive himself.
Yes, and loving the Master is a way of dealing with his own guilts and regrets. He probably even feels guilty for loving the Master, which intensifies both the guilt and the love and the irrationality of both. Add to this the Time War baggage, and the "last survivors" pattern - yes, we have the whole dark image thing going on. Even looking at the story of being eight years old and looking into the Time Vortex: the Doctor must think that he could have been the one who went mad, and the Master could have been the one who ran. "There but for the grace of God go I." Echoing selfhood all the way.
Ten said something about Jack being the only man Jack himself can be happy with. The words are even more right, if Ten is talking about himself.
That makes sense. I couldn't track the sense of this when the Doctor said it about Jack, because I think it is totally untrue of Jack. (Not to mention, it's an odd thing to say to someone who has remained devoted to you since you abandoned him 138 years earlier.) The thing about Jack isn't that he can't find happiness with anyone, it's that he can find happiness with practically anyone and everyone. He collects loves the way some people collect postage stamps. He's a classic example of "If you can't have the one you love, then love the one you're with". So he loves easily and often; and his love isn't even superficial or transient. It's bountiful.
how much Jack is like Ten is striking
They have more than big coats in common, though it should be noted that they have big coats in common! Long-lived travellers in space and time, self-appointed saviours with guilt in their past, both struggling with issues of loss and loneliness, both the only ones of their kind (when the Master isn't there).