"The antidote I see - the ray of hope - is that we are not getting Jack's point of view in 'Last of the Time Lords' at all."
I agree. We did only see Jack's facade in LotTL. It's like we see the light in someone's window, but not sure if he/she is really up there. And I'm not sure we'll get any Jack's point of view about the events, later in the second series of Torchwood.
"Or even when true to the spirit of a ship - I'm thinking of Vince and Stuart here - he puts the characters through a wringer or two."
'Unrequited love never has to end.' OMG, RTD, tell me you didn't say that.
"So the Doctor's love for the Master is all tied up with his relationship with himself, his own past, and his origins."
Especially so when we think of the tenth Doctor. Ten is very much a narcissist. His relationship with everyone else is also a relationship with himself. It's more so with the master, who IS himself, only in a dark mirror. He seems to love the master so, willing to forgive the Master no matter what he did, it's only because in some ways they are the same person. To love or forgive the Master is to love or forgive himself.
Ten said something about Jack being the only man Jack himself can be happy with. The words are even more right, if Ten is talking about himself. In fact, how much Jack is like Ten is striking. Narcissists are often the people who self-loathe the most. They look at themselves too much in the mirror. It's like Ten projects all his self-love side on the Master, but all his self-loathe side on Jack, because of the whole Time Lord identity thing at the time.
LotTL made me think of Peter Pan again; Well, not about the Tinker Bell. The Master is Captain Hook: he used to be much older than some of the Doctors, with his evil moustache and evil laugh, and now we even have the ticking clock/drumming thing. The Doctor is Peter Pan: though the villain is always defeated at the end of the day, the game never ends. Jack is one of Peter Pan's boys later grown to be Peter Pan himself. But no, there can't be TWO Peter Pans in the Neverland. It's just wrong. And can Peter Pans love each other?
(We agree earlier that the Doctor isn't like Peter Pan because he changes. But he changes very slowly, more slowly than humans, since he has a much longer life span. Just like how slowly Jack is getting old. It's more Peter Pan alike, because of the slowness. The ninth Doctor never strike me as Peter Pan alike, he's much more an adult than Ten ever has been. It may be only a Ten thing.)
"My interpretation is that, from beginning to end there, they see each other as allies, not rivals. Two humans in the same situation, who will never doubt the Doctor, who will support him through all, even if he never notices them."
I can see exactly Martha saying 'never doubted him, never will'. Only after the third series I begin to notice why it's 'him', not 'you'. It wasn't directly dressed to the Doctor, though Jack knew the Doctor could hear him. Unrequited love is something belongs to the one who loves, not the one who is loved. It can have nothing to do with the latter. Also, if it was directly dressed to the Doctor as 'never doubted you, never will', it would have been too intense to bear.
Am I the only one that thinks the Jack/Martha chemistry is better than the Ten/Martha chemistry? I love their first scene together. The New Who companions are often seen jealous of each other, but not these two. I'm glad Martha'll come to the Torchwood. I'd like to see more of their interaction.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2007-07-19 09:45 pm (UTC)I agree. We did only see Jack's facade in LotTL. It's like we see the light in someone's window, but not sure if he/she is really up there. And I'm not sure we'll get any Jack's point of view about the events, later in the second series of Torchwood.
"Or even when true to the spirit of a ship - I'm thinking of Vince and Stuart here - he puts the characters through a wringer or two."
'Unrequited love never has to end.' OMG, RTD, tell me you didn't say that.
"So the Doctor's love for the Master is all tied up with his relationship with himself, his own past, and his origins."
Especially so when we think of the tenth Doctor. Ten is very much a narcissist. His relationship with everyone else is also a relationship with himself. It's more so with the master, who IS himself, only in a dark mirror. He seems to love the master so, willing to forgive the Master no matter what he did, it's only because in some ways they are the same person. To love or forgive the Master is to love or forgive himself.
Ten said something about Jack being the only man Jack himself can be happy with. The words are even more right, if Ten is talking about himself. In fact, how much Jack is like Ten is striking. Narcissists are often the people who self-loathe the most. They look at themselves too much in the mirror. It's like Ten projects all his self-love side on the Master, but all his self-loathe side on Jack, because of the whole Time Lord identity thing at the time.
LotTL made me think of Peter Pan again; Well, not about the Tinker Bell. The Master is Captain Hook: he used to be much older than some of the Doctors, with his evil moustache and evil laugh, and now we even have the ticking clock/drumming thing. The Doctor is Peter Pan: though the villain is always defeated at the end of the day, the game never ends. Jack is one of Peter Pan's boys later grown to be Peter Pan himself. But no, there can't be TWO Peter Pans in the Neverland. It's just wrong. And can Peter Pans love each other?
(We agree earlier that the Doctor isn't like Peter Pan because he changes. But he changes very slowly, more slowly than humans, since he has a much longer life span. Just like how slowly Jack is getting old. It's more Peter Pan alike, because of the slowness. The ninth Doctor never strike me as Peter Pan alike, he's much more an adult than Ten ever has been. It may be only a Ten thing.)
"My interpretation is that, from beginning to end there, they see each other as allies, not rivals. Two humans in the same situation, who will never doubt the Doctor, who will support him through all, even if he never notices them."
I can see exactly Martha saying 'never doubted him, never will'. Only after the third series I begin to notice why it's 'him', not 'you'. It wasn't directly dressed to the Doctor, though Jack knew the Doctor could hear him. Unrequited love is something belongs to the one who loves, not the one who is loved. It can have nothing to do with the latter. Also, if it was directly dressed to the Doctor as 'never doubted you, never will', it would have been too intense to bear.
Am I the only one that thinks the Jack/Martha chemistry is better than the Ten/Martha chemistry? I love their first scene together. The New Who companions are often seen jealous of each other, but not these two. I'm glad Martha'll come to the Torchwood. I'd like to see more of their interaction.