Torchwood article...

[fajrdrako]

I am reduced to reading spoilers, I am so desperate for more about Torchwood.

So I read this interview with Barrowman. We know about the revelation at the end of Doctor Who series 3. I thought we did know the date Jack returned to Earth - perhaps we just thought we did.

Love his comments about Martha. "Who you gonna call?"

Comments

[beck-liz.livejournal.com]

I still want to know what item it was in the script that got him and DT all hyped up. The Face of Boe?

And I thought we knew the date, too; I could swear he said 18- something (60? 80? Somewhere in there). But I haven't re-watched the episode recently, so I could be misremembering.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I still want to know what item it was in the script that got him and DT all hyped up. The Face of Boe?

I believe so. I rather hope they will subsequently ignore this entirely.

And I thought we knew the date, too; I could swear he said 18- something

I thought he said 1869. Which is the year in which "The Unquiet Dead" was set, wasn't it? A decade before the foundation of Torchwood.

Interesting timing. I hope we get more flashbacks, like our scene in Lahore in 1909.

[beck-liz.livejournal.com]

I rather hope they will subsequently ignore this entirely.

Yeah, me too. As funny as the idea is, I'd really prefer the notion that Jack was pulling a fast one on the Doctor & Martha.

I thought he said 1869.

Yeah, that sounds like what Jack said in "Utopia". Maybe JB was being circumspect in the Sci-Fi interview, since Series 3 hasn't ended in North America yet?

And more flashbacks would be great.

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

Jack definitely says he landed in 1869, I watched Utopia again on Sunday.

I think he's being coy because that season of DW hasn't finished running on the SciFi channel yet and they are avoiding spoilers.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

As funny as the idea is, I'd really prefer the notion that Jack was pulling a fast one on the Doctor & Martha.

I'd prefer that too, though circumstances make it impossible for me to think that. So I'm basically not worrying about it. There's a lot about the ending of "The Last of the Time Lords" that threw me into traumatic emotional distress, and this wasn't part of it, so I'm coping one concept at a time. I think I'm glad that if Jack is anybody, he's at least a character I loved - and whom we know the Doctor had loved as well. I just would prefer Jack not to be someone dead. Whose death we saw. I'll no doubt get over this hangup.

Re 1869: maybe we have something yet to learn about it. Who knows? All we can do is wait and see! (and read interviews, of course.)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

That might be it.

I like the idea of a Victorian or Edwardian Jack. Or Jack in the 1920s. Wonder if we'll get to see that.

[majkia.livejournal.com]

well, he had to get into the future at some point to be a time cop... how did THAT happen? And what made him furious enough to go rogue?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

And why did they steal two years of his memories?

I'm sure we'll get back to all that! Detail by detail.

[raissad.livejournal.com]

You beat me to it; I didn't know if you'd seen this article. As to the date returned thing, I think JB is speaking in relation to viewers who haven't seen S3, yet. It is a SCI FI US article after all, and not all SCI FI viewers will have used "alternate sources" prior to broadcast.

Re: Jack/Doctor -- I'm sorry you're having trouble. Apart from specific authors I know I like, I don't read slash or het generally, so I'm having trouble relating to your issues as a writer. That said, maybe I can address your issues as a viewer...

Personally, I think a lot of this goes back to that conversation we had before about the circular peg in the oval hole/Classic vs. New retcon in characterization conversation from before. I think you're trying to hard to make their dynamic fit, because RTD has put you in a position, for better or worse, where you have to make it fit. The effort is tiring.

The second issue is, ironically, Torchwood itself. The Doctor and Jack would have a comepletely different dynamic if JB/Jack didn't have to front his own spin-off. But, he does, so Jack has his team, his companions, and leaves the Doctor. Meanwhile, the Doctor must live with the tension created by Jack working for an agency he has real, not imagined, issues with, all because the BBC want that spin-off.

As for Jack as the Face of Boe, I'm glad he eventually dies, because Jack wants to eventually die. He expressed as much in LotTL. So, he gets his wish after a long, and one assumes useful, existence. Good for him. :)

[(Anonymous)]

(Laura at the library sans LJ password again).
My impression of Jack's time line:
He was a 51st century guy to begin with. Born, one assumes, in the normal way, or whatever that will be then.
He fought in a dreadful war in his youth.
Joined the time agency. They took away a year (is that right? he told Rose) of his memories. Then he became a time con man, and ended
up in WWII (the first time).
Met Rose & the 9th Doctor. Went with them, fell in love with them, died. Was resurrected by Rose (who messed it up and made it permanent) and was left behind by the Doctor.
Time jumped using his wrist thingie. Got stuck in 1869, unable to jump any more. Died a number of times, including in WWII (his 2nd
experience of that war, but without an alien space ship to help him this time). During this experience of WWII, fell in love with a woman who lived outside of Cardiff, whom he'd later keep in touch with pretending to be his own son. (episode "Small Worlds," I think)
Kept living through the end of the 20th century.
Spied on Rose during her childhood. Mourned at the losses at Canary Wharf.
Reformatted Torchwood to be good guys.
WWII for the 3rd time, for less than 24 hours, due to a temporal shift. Met the real JH. Fell in love. Bereaved again.
Waited around for the Tardis to refuel in Cardiff. Was tipped off by the hand, heard the engines, ran like hell.
Adventures with 10 & Martha against the Master.
Realized during the exchange with Martha that both were in love with
the Doctor and that it would be unrequited. Took it surprisingly well.
Back to Cardiff.

(tiny spoilers)
I have no idea what the episode(s) with James Marsters will be like, but for consistancy I'd like WWII to show up again, since that's when he usually falls in love.

[loreleif.livejournal.com]

He's from the future, though; his stint as a time agent was before his first season of Dr Who. And I thought it was the memory-wipe that pissed him off? Think I need to watch The Empty Child again. (Ah, the hardship! *g*)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Born, one assumes, in the normal way, or whatever that will be then.

I like your qualification there! I would add something, but it isn't yet canon, it's from spoiler pictures I've seen from series 2. Since I don't know where you stand on such things, I'll be silent.

He fought in a dreadful war in his youth.

Guess at his age? He said he was 'a boy' - 14, 15, do you think?

They took away a year (is that right? he told Rose) of his memories.

Two years.

and ended up in WWII (the first time).

I'd have guessed that when we see him in 1941 in "The Empty Child", it isn't the first time he's tried to pull that con during the Blitz - second time, maybe. I have no hard evidence, except for the way he talks about it. "The London Blitz is great for self-cleaners" - seems to me to imply prior experience. But he could hardly pull the same con in the same place very often.

I have no idea what the episode(s) with James Marsters will be like, but for consistancy I'd like WWII to show up again, since that's when he usually falls in love.

Nice thought - though I was thinking how good Marsters would look in a World War I uniform.

My guess is he'll be from Jack's past, maybe a Time Agent.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

You beat me to it; I didn't know if you'd seen this article.

I just found it. I was bored, looking for Torchwood stuff.

As to the date returned thing, I think JB is speaking in relation to viewers who haven't seen S3, yet.

Quite likely. I notice the actors often make reference to events in the storyline in very general, unclear terms. Quite rightly.

"alternate sources"

I like your discreet phrase.

RTD has put you in a position, for better or worse, where you have to make it fit. The effort is tiring.

Well said. It's as if he's giving us the new dynamic and the old dynamic at the same time, and sometimes there's a psychological clash. I can rationalize it - but I'm not quite yet at the point where I want to.

And you're quite right, a lot of my problem is my problem as a writer. It gives me a certain way of looking at the material. And, frankly, a tendency to think I know how things "should" be written, which isn't always the same as the way things are written.

Your points about Torchwood are very valid. It doesn't help the emotional dynamic, but it's clearly part of the reasons things happened as they did. And until the day the Face of Boe dies, there are many things that can take place.

I will try to get over my qualms about Jack's eventual death.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

"The Empty Child" is my favourite episode and I've watched it a lot. I can probably recite it, and "The Doctor Dances" too. Yes, his time agency days were well before he met the Doctor and Rose, though how many years of subjective time had passed between his leaving the Agency and meeting them is unclear.

I wish I could watch those episodes with you - I'm always happy to see them again, any time!

The Doctor & His Companions

[raissad.livejournal.com]

The whole Doctor/Jack/Martha/Rose/Sarah/Anybody thing got me thinking. Over on the Outpost Gallifrey forum, there's a companions from fiction thread, and a couple of us suggested Inara Serra from Firefly. Apart from the interesting pesonal dynamic they'd develop (sex optional), Inara would help him address a need that goes beyond any individual companion relationship. Once the Doctor contracted for Inara, he would have access to the Companion Guild as a whole. He could make a long-term deal with them that would keep him in beautiful, interesting, compatible companions for the rest of his long, long life. Even after Inara left, he would never be alone.

That's ultimately what he needs, you see, a sort of companion pool he could pick and choose from, so he wouldn't have to hunt and peck to choose traveling partners, unless he wanted to. There would never be lapses of time between companions during which he'd start talking to himself. His surviving former and/or current companions (the Brigadier, Liz, Jo, Sarah, Harry, Tegan, Jack, Martha, etc) would need to get together, compare notes, and set up a Companion Certification Program, or something, with Torchwood and U.N.I.T. resources. It would be their thank you present to him for all he's done and the best expression of love from his surrogate family.

[loreleif.livejournal.com]

Well, you know you're invited, any time! Pesky little distances and borders and stupid things.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I think those episodes are just so beautifully written. Steven Moffat amazes me with his talent. He can be funny and clever and wise and moving all at the same time.

I wish he had time to write for Torchwood, too.

Re: The Doctor & His Companions

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Doctor/Jack/Martha/Rose/Sarah/Anybody thing

What a group! Love it.

got me thinking

Yes?

on the Outpost Gallifrey forum, there's a companions from fiction thread

Sounds like fun.

a couple of us suggested Inara Serra from Firefly

Nice choice. Whenever he said something outrageously rude, she would diplomatically cover for him. Very handy.

Once the Doctor contracted for Inara, he would have access to the Companion Guild as a whole. He could make a long-term deal with them that would keep him in beautiful, interesting, compatible companions for the rest of his long, long life. Even after Inara left, he would never be alone.

True - over any number of their lifetimes or his regenerations.

he wouldn't have to hunt and peck to choose traveling partners, unless he wanted to.

I think he likes the randomness of it, though, the possibility of disaster. With the Companions, they would always be intelligent, calm, kind, and competent. They would (probably) not be dishonest. The element of risk and suprise - which I think is part of what keeps the Doctor interested - would be blunted. There would not be a likelihood of an Adam or even a Mickey.

Moreover the highly-trained Companions might feel that their talents are being wasted. I am now picturing the sort of arrangement like Inara has with Mal for rental space on the Serenity. Taking in clients like the Governor, for example, on the TARDIS. Or having the TARDIS (in its whimsical, haphazard manner) deliver them to appointments in various places and times. "Doctor, I contracted for a client in the year 44,649 on the Planet Xot. You deliver me to the planet Tot in the year 444,759. This is not acceptible."

His surviving former and/or current companions (the Brigadier, Liz, Jo, Sarah, Harry, Tegan, Jack, Martha, etc) would need to get together, compare notes, and set up a Companion Certification Program, or something, with Torchwood and U.N.I.T. resources.

I suspect Jack would be only too happy to help. Quality control. Must maintain standards with stringent testing.

The only other problem I can think of is that the Companion Guild operates with cash (or credit or whatever), which the Doctor is notoriously lacking. He doesn't need it and doesn't care, but the Guild Mother might see that as a prerequisite. I think they have a sign in their main HQ: "Payment in jelly babies is not accepted."

[loreleif.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes. *nod* Empty Child/Doctor Dances is still probably my favourite arc, and not just because of Jack. Let's hope they keep him on and maybe expand his duties!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

It would be nice to see him get a two-part story in Doctor Who series 4. At the very least.

Re: The Doctor & His Companions

[raissad.livejournal.com]

All too true. The Firefly Companion Guild might not be suitable for him. That said, I wouldn't mind seeing the variation that his friends put together for him, just to see if it would work.

Re: The Doctor & His Companions

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

MEMO FROM THE COMPANION GUILD GRANDMISTRESS TO ALL COMPANIONS:

Commerce with any surviving member of a race known as "Time Lords" or commerce regarding a vehicle known as the T.A.R.D.I.S. in now strictly forbidden on pain of guild expulsion.

Companions known to have accepted serial commissions from the T.A.R.D.I.S. or any occupant thereof have been known to suffer the following fates: becoming mad, being eaten by giant spiders, disappearance from the timestream, or retiring and settling down in a bungalow in Topeka.

The T.A.R.D.I.S. must therefore be considered off limits as a danger zone.

If any Companion should meet an alien entity called the Doctor, our advice is this: Run!