Doctor Who: "Gridlock" thoughts...

[fajrdrako]

I liked the title.

It was a Sunday evening treat for myself: watching Doctor Who all my myself, on the sofa - well, with Logan, but he only emitted the occasional editorial chirp.


It wasn't quite what I expected - in some ways. I guess the 'trapped in the slipstream of traffic' was not unexpected, but the exaggeration of the situation at first almost lost me - and then seemed quite wonderful. I loved the various people the Doctor met, and I loved his dropping from car to car.

I was sorry to see the Doctor and Martha were apart for so much of the episode, because I do so like them together. I missed their interchanges. Still, when they were together, what we got was wonderful - less banter, more honesty.

Things I particularly loved:
- the Doctor telling Martha about Gallifrey in the beginning, but not telling her the truth
- the Doctor being only too aware (and regretful) that he had not told her the truth
- the Doctor's reflection that he had been "too busy showing off"
- the Doctor's description of Martha as a stranger - and hers of him as a man she hardly knows, but has faith in
- the cats (even though I'm really not a cat person, no, not at all, honest! well... sometimes.)
- the Doctor's moods. For some reason I find hard to analyze, I most love the Doctor when he is angry. Here we had him angry, regretful, joking, reflective, sympathetic, and so on, but his best moment was when he told the mood-dealers to close up shop because he'd come after them when he'd found Martha.
- come to think of it, I really loved the mood-drug vendors
- the cat-nun and her dedication to the Face of Boe. I was delighted to see the Face of Boe again - he's one of my favourites.
- the guy in the bowler hat
- the guy in white
- the garish girls
- the lines about the Doctor's coat - and its origin story
- was Rose mentioned? I am one of those fans who has loved and cherished each time when the Doctor has said her name, but I'm still glad if this time he didn't, just to prove we're not in a rut. I didn't notice Mr. Saxon, either.
- I liked it that the visual appearance of the place was so unlike that of New New etc. New York in "New Earth"

I could have done without the creatures at the bottom of the fast lane, but ... I guess they served their purpose: entertaining the eight year olds, and being metaphorical bottom-feeders.

Of course I liked the ending, not so much because of what the Doctor was saying, but because he was saying it to Martha. Seems to me she's reached some sort of turning point. Will the Doctor need an excuse to take her on the next adventure?

Am I right to think that the title refers to the Doctor, locked in his pattern of grief with regard to Rose and denial with regard to Martha? Or am I just being fanciful there?

Comments

[commodorified.livejournal.com]

Hon, your cut is borked. *averts eyes hastily*

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Oops. That's what I get when I post when I'm really too tired to think.... Fixed now!

[grlnamedlucifer.livejournal.com]

>was Rose mentioned?<

In the beginning, during the 'rebound' banter about how he was showing Martha the same places he showed Rose. Though I think it's Martha who first mentions her by name, the Doctor more obliquely.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Yes; not quite the same. But still mentioned.

[kiyuchan.livejournal.com]

There was a quick mention of Rose near the beginning, when the Doctor shows Martha the image of up top when they jump out of the rain.

Martha's muttering about rebounds made me giggle.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Rebound? That was a cute moment. I like the way Martha is clever.... Not just admiring and curious about the Doctor, but with a good sense of what makes him tick.

[wijsgeer.livejournal.com]

my sister was quite upset that the catman called the two married ladies 'sisters' and when they insisted on being called married he went 'oh, don't you all go moderrn on me'. "After all this time, so far in the future and they are still making such a fuss about homosexuality", she fumed.

Like you I liked the eternal entrapment of the road (such a different type of roadmovie!) (as a concept, not to be part of) but I have problems seeing it actually work, how is the interaction with the live 'on the pavement' in the allies. Ok, I guess I shouldn't demand a whole working society in one episode, it just somehow feels a bit off for me. But not enough to let is spoil my enjoyment. Also, the kids who kidnapped Martha wanted to hold her to ransom, how were they planning to do that? they must have had the idea that they could somewhere leave the vehicle.

(Oh, and yes, not a great fan of the crabs either, though it gave Martha some time to be sanguine)

[silverwhistle.livejournal.com]

my sister was quite upset that the catman called the two married ladies 'sisters' and when they insisted on being called married he went 'oh, don't you all go moderrn on me'. "After all this time, so far in the future and they are still making such a fuss about homosexuality", she fumed.

But with that accent, and large number of (entirely adorable) kittens, he may be a fervent Irish Cat-holic… ;-D

[wijsgeer.livejournal.com]

LOL I told her that such thing (acceptance of non-mainstream sexualities) don't go in one progressive line towards disappearance of bigotry and prejudice. Anyway, it might be more agism than anti-lesbianism. At least, if the show is indeed geared at the young agegroup (lets be generous here, ranging from 8 till 28) than the idea that these knitting ladies are also sexual beings might be definitely a shock, whether they'd prefer to dive into the sack with an other woman or a man.

[silverwhistle.livejournal.com]

I think it's also a bit of a joke in that it's coming from a character who's in an inter-species relationship - showing perhaps that everyone has their own blind-spots when it comes to people other than themselves! Brannigan's wife is human, after all!

[wijsgeer.livejournal.com]

sure

it made my sister angry enough to start fuming before I had seen it and she didn't wanted to elaborate before I had seen it (she has cable, I torrent). I find this kinda funny (oh and BTW she is not a lesbian herself and therefor more prone to getting up in arms). And yes, I didn't get a very negative feeling from the banter, afterall I called them first for assistance. My sister's argument was that for this banter to make sense there must have been at least a residue of anti-gay semntiment. I think there might well be something in that. (Just like I suspect jokes about blacks, Jews and stupid women, forever and allways, well at the very least they make me wonder what is going on)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

My sister's argument was that for this banter to make sense there must have been at least a residue of anti-gay semntiment.

Sure, but this was hardly a utopian society. They had all sorts of weirdnesses, and probably the fumes had made them all more stupid than they should be. (For example, they all believed in a police force that didn't exist. They weren't swift in catching on.)

[wijsgeer.livejournal.com]

I believe humanity is essentially a group/herd species. Being deprived of the opportunity to irectly (not just electronically) interact an essential form of its intelligence get lost. (Sure there is individual intelligence as well, but groups have their own way of figuring things out. Noot allways the right thing, but neither do individuals)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

That's true enough, and once people start making assumptions that 'this is the way it is', it's amazing how long they can put up with absurdities. History is full of such examples - just as our current world is. This is why SF can weave parody so deftly: take a common assumption and put it in a different context, and it becomes clear that it's absurd.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Groan!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

"After all this time, so far in the future and they are still making such a fuss about homosexuality", she fumed.

I see her point, but why worry about that, when they had so many other problems we have now? Including traffic congestion, drug use and pollution! I think that's applying logic in the wrong way.... It wasn't one of the more realistic images of the future.

a different type of roadmovie!

That's it! And recognizable and varied types 'on the road' too.

is the interaction with the live 'on the pavement' in the allies

I kept asking such questions of myself, and then firmly quashing them. Seemed to me likely that lots of people would do what the Doctor did - dropping from one car to another, actually socializing (besides with the radios). Especially the people who were solo in their cars! I liked the way the 'fast lane' got a car eaten by the monsters. But it also seemed unlikely that this would go unnoticed for thousands of years....

It wasn't the link of episode you could apply much logic to. Luckily it fulfilled its mood and was fun to watch anyway.

Also, the kids who kidnapped Martha wanted to hold her to ransom, how were they planning to do that?

I thought she was just their ticket into the 'fast lane'. They needed to have three people in the car.

it gave Martha some time to be sanguine

Yes, that was good.

[silverwhistle.livejournal.com]

Great episode! I like the idea of cat-people!
The Face of Boe's last words… I'm worried. I have a nasty suspicion which other Timelord may be out there…

[wijsgeer.livejournal.com]

the Master?

[silverwhistle.livejournal.com]

I fear so…

[wijsgeer.livejournal.com]

Did you see the 8th Doctor TV-film? In the end he is swallowed by the eye of the Tardis. fajdrako interpreted that as his death, but I wodered if he might not have become part of the Tardis (like the Slytheen woman whose name I can't properly pronounce). Maybe the two have found a way out? (Maybe I am being to fancyfull here).

Other option, maybe the empire of the Daleks is after all a timelord. (It wouldn't be the first time in history that warring parties somehow end up intermarrying)

[silverwhistle.livejournal.com]

There are questions over how canonical the TV movie is.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

If I had my druthers I'd tear into shreds and feed it to the Daleks and pretend it never happened, and that its implications just don't count. But no one asked me, did they?

[wijsgeer.livejournal.com]

is there a good reason apart from very understandable wishfull thing for declaring the TV movie out of canon?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I'm not an expert on the subject but my understanding is that because it was produced by other people (wasn't it?) and deviated from what was accepted canon, and because it wasn't very good and was therefore unpopular, and particularly because it was Americanized, many people wanted to write it off as non-canon along with the parodies and the other half-forgotten non-canonical material. Not to mention the material (like the novels and radio shows) that some people call canon and some don't.

So, yes, wishful thinking.

I think the reality to canon is more arbitrary than that. A lot of it boils down to the whim, taste, or competence of whatever set of writers and producers is producing the material at any given moment. Still, in writing fanfic, I like to respect canon just because I don't want readers to be conscious of how I am playng with it.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

like the Slytheen woman whose name I can't properly pronounce

I just call her Margaret... If that's who you mean? But she went home to Raxacoricofallipatorius in egg form, so maybe the Master was delivered back to Gallifrey in some similar manner, back when it still existed.

Other option, maybe the empire of the Daleks is after all a timelord.

One of the uglier versions!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Such are the rumours.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I like the idea of cat-people!

It was nice to see one of them who wasn't a nursing sister.

I have a nasty suspicion which other Timelord may be out there…

Don't we all? I'm hoping that there is more than one Time Lord out there.

(Actually I thought the Master was trapped within the TARDIS from the story about the Eighth Doctor but I'd rather think that isn't true anyway..)

[silverwhistle.livejournal.com]

There was a black cat female driver, too, wasn't there?

Re: the Master, I'm not sure how canonical the TV film with Eight is.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

There was a black cat female driver, too, wasn't there?

I thought she was a bat. She was... at least different looking.

'm not sure how canonical the TV film with Eight is

I would like to think it was not canonical at all, but I hear Russell T. Davies has said it is, for reasons known only to him. (I would hesitate to say "bad taste".) Perhaps it's just that he wanted that loophole to bring back the Master, but I'd like to think he'll do it in a more imaginative and surprising way.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

I think even if I hadn't seen the credit at the beginning, I would have known it was an RTD episode. All his favourite themes were there - using the future as a metaphor for the present, religious imagery, the whole 'who is the doctor' question and the big set-up question for the series. Plus, he was having far too much fun with all the different car inhabitants. Talk about a writer's dream set-up!

I loved the way Martha forced the Doctor to talk to her properly - the 'rebound' comment was priceless and perfect. Having them apart for the whole episode was such a good idea, forcing the Doctor to realise that he can't just mess around with her and making Martha a bit more willing to push him, not just take everything he says at face value.

Oh, and how long before we get "The Doctor meets Janice Joplin" fanfic? :D

Did you watch the 'Confidential' as well? I don't want to spoil you if you're going to, but there was some interesting stuff in it, not least how you get a kitten to say "mama".

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I would have known it was an RTD episode

I've yet to learn the hallmarks. I should think about this a little more.

using the future as a metaphor for the present,

I like that one.

religious imagery

Really? I associate that more with Torchwood. Am I just oblivious? What was the religious imagery here?

the whole 'who is the doctor' question

Which I totally love.

forcing the Doctor to realise that he can't just mess around with her and making Martha a bit more willing to push him, not just take everything he says at face value.

I certainly loved the way it worked out.

Oh, and how long before we get "The Doctor meets Janice Joplin" fanfic?

I'm sure it's already been posted somewhere!

Did you watch the 'Confidential' as well?

No, I haven't had a chance to... er... acquire it yet. I might be able to see it tonight. (Hope so!)

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

There's more about the RTD-ness in the Confidential - you start to see the patterns! There's also just a quality to the writing and plotting that shows through, I think.

I guess it wasn't really religious imagery as such, but the idea of singing "The Old Rugged Cross" was interesting. It's something that brings the community together, but there's no sense that the words actually mean anything to them, in their original sense. Plus - the cat's a nun! Earning her redemption through service...

There's a very ambivalent attitude to religion in the writing of both series, which makes things much more interesting. There's a willingness to use the motifs and the imagery to give emotional resonance, without actually subscribing to the religious viewpoint. I found an essay about existentialism in DW/TW somewhere, which seemed to hit the spot quite well, but there's still that religious thread running all the way through.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

There's more about the RTD-ness in the Confidential - you start to see the patterns!

I'll keep it in mind as I watch. I do like his stories - but hadn't entirely analyzed why, or what makes them different.

the idea of singing "The Old Rugged Cross" was interesting

Ah, right! There was also the implication, I thought, that the cat-nun was an acolyte and the Face of Boe her deity. Not so much religious imagery (like Captain Jack as the Saviour) but religous themes interwoven.

Earning her redemption through service...

And the whole notion that you can earn, or barter for, redemption. That it's something outside yourself, not just self-forgiveness.

There's a very ambivalent attitude to religion in the writing of both series, which makes things much more interesting.

Yes. I love it. The notion for example, that Jack is a saviour (or 'the Saviour' in some absolute sense) while he is an atheist and pragmatist.

There's a willingness to use the motifs and the imagery to give emotional resonance, without actually subscribing to the religious viewpoint.

While, in fact, explicitly denying it. I am reminded of the movie "Elizabeth" where Queen Elizabeth I deliberately usurped the imagery of the Virgin Mary to give herself iconic popularity for the nation with its new attitude to religion.

I found an essay about existentialism in DW/TW somewhere,

I'd love to see it! Can you remember where it was?

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

And the whole notion that you can earn, or barter for, redemption
I hadn't thought of it like that. That's such a strong theme though, throughout both series. hmmm...maybe merits more thought...especially with the Doctor's attitude to second chances. There's definitely an undercurrent there.

I'll have a hunt for the essay - it's probably buried in the depths of torch_wood somewhere.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I'll see if I can find the essay, to. I'm intrigued. I like existentialist themes and I can see the thread, but I'd be interested in hearing a systematic analysis (or even an unsystematic commentary).

Certainly guilt and forgiveness are major themes - just look at the 'forgiveness' scene in "End of Days". And that wonderful powerful moment in "Father's Day" where the Doctor gets a sincere apology from Rose, and forgives her for destroying her own timeline. Or his forgiveness of Jack for almost destroying humanity, less expilicit but certainly implicit in both senses of the word, in "The Doctor Dances".

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

I think this (http://community.livejournal.com/torch_wood/747517.html) was the discussion I was thinking of, and I seem to have misremembered it a little. It's more about concepts of the afterlife, with existentialism really only mentioned in passing. However, I've been inspired to dig out my (rather dusty) copy of "A very short introduction to Existentialism" - there's definitely some interesting points to be made.

One thing strikes me looking at the forgiveness examples - the Tenth Doctor is less given to those kinds of second chances (right from The Christmas Invasion). For all that he seems friendlier than Nine, I actually find him a 'harder' character at his core - less stand-offish, but finding the detachment easier when he needs it. I wonder if he'd have been able to activate the Delta Wave in Parting of the Ways, and wonder even more what he's going to make of Jack. But maybe it's just that he's even more mercurial than most of the Doctors have been and his extremes of emotion are far more pronounced.

I'll report back with more thoughts once I've ploughed through the idiot's guide to Satre. ;)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

the Tenth Doctor is less given to those kinds of second chances (right from The Christmas Invasion).

Is it in "School Reunion" that he says, "I used to have so much mercy"?

I think Ten is more liely to push himself to extremes. I wonder if he regrets his choice in "The Parting of the Ways". I think not, but it seems to have steeled him to harder and darker choices. He has a harsher temper.

I loved Florence Finnegan's line: "You're quite the funny man. And yet, I think, laughing on purpose at the darkness." Ten is very into denial and misdirection. Which I love. It makes him both dark and complex, and yet his warmth and kindness are worn on the surface, easy to see.

wonder even more what he's going to make of Jack.

Eee yes. I can't even guess, which is part of the fun. Well, actually, I can guess, I can make any number of guesses, but I'm not putting money on any of them. I am still uncertain as to why the Doctor didn't just go back and pick Jack up on the Game Station; his 'explanation' just made it more perplexing to me. So. We shall see.

maybe it's just that he's even more mercurial than most of the Doctors have been and his extremes of emotion are far more pronounced.


I'd leave the 'just' out of that sentence. Because he is mercurial, he seems just that much less in control, more dangerous and more judgemental. I like that in a Time Lord.

Sartre. Go for it.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

Sartre. Go for it.

I did! The results are at the top of my journal if you're still interested...

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Excellent! I'll read when I have a moment.

I went so far as to reading up on Existentialism on (blush) Wikipedia. It's been many years since I read most of the classic works cited. Makes me feel old and forgetful.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

*grin* I used Wiki as well. It's quite handy as long as you take it with a pinch of salt. And use all the external references to check its facts. I've never actually studied philosophy properly (muddling my way through Plato as a first year undergrad does not count in this context) so it was fun to use a different part of my brain.

Look forward to seeing what you think :)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I think Wiki is wonderful. Like all informational material, it should be ingested with care.

My experience with philosophy is more or less the equivalent of muddling through Plato as an undergrad, except we didn't do Plato, we did neo-Platonism (in Renaissance Intellectual History, and I most remember Toynbee and Hegel as philosophers who wrote at length about history.

My foray into existentialism - besides reading Camus and other in French lit - was stumbling across "The Outsider" by Colin Wilson, a sort of layman's introduction to existentialism, and I found it fascinating.

[jadesfire2808.livejournal.com]

I think I forgot to sign in, but the above ramble was mine.... sorry!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I've done that more times than I can count.

[janne-d.livejournal.com]

They sing "Abide With Me", one of the hymns I can remember the whole first verse of from school, at the end of the episode as well as "The Old Rugged Cross". He could have picked any songs to have as that connection for the society, but they are both hymns...

I think Martha also makes a comment about them having their faith and their hymns, and she has the Doctor?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

One thing I have always liked about the character of the Doctor is his great capacity for compassion and forgiveness.

Yes. I really loved that moment.

[lacesforalady.livejournal.com]

I appear to have started on something epic. I didn't mean to, it just sort of grew that big on it's own- there's no way to wrap it up in a short story.

You asked for Peter and Nathan meeting Jack and Ianto and the Doctor? Hooboy are you getting it, with a cherry on top.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

There is nothing wrong with epics. Just ask Homer.

Hooboy are you getting it, with a cherry on top.

You've put a happy smile on my face on a ghastly Monday morning.

(I didn't ask for Nathan but if you've got him, I'll take him!)

[lacesforalady.livejournal.com]

Do you think I can get away with Zeppelins being just a British thing?

...I'll just abuse Creative License.

As for Nathan, I love him too much to leave him out. Besides, he's a good straight guy to everyone else's funnyman.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Use all the Creative License you want! I give it to you freely.

Yes, Nathan is a terrific straight man. So to speak.

[lacesforalady.livejournal.com]

So to speak.

You mean, when he's not around his brother?

Of course, Hiro brings out the best in him...


:p

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

You mean, when he's not around his brother?

I'm not sure I'd even go that far, but it really is remarkable how he can't keep his hands off Peter. I'll grant you that.

Hiro brings out the best in everyone.

[raissad.livejournal.com]

It looks like I won't be seeing any more eps. until later in the US. I went where I usually go to watch them, and I got the following message (the previous two eps. as well)...

This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by a third party.

Oh, well. It was nice while it lasted.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Oh, that's really a shame! I'm sure they will be shown in the U.S., possibly soon - they're airing in Canada starting in June, I think.

I find it very frustrating that you can get shows in some countries but not in others. Especially with so many reruns going on.

[lauradi7.livejournal.com]

They are available (at least as of today) at
http://www.tv-links.co.uk/

The weird thing about the Youtube copyright irritation is that they seem fine with the music videos people made from clips, but have taken down the ones that are whole episodes.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link!

[raissad.livejournal.com]

I adored the character moments; the plot, not so much. It just wasn't my cup of tea. I officially weep fpr FoB. Via con Cosmos!

Ten seems to have worked through his dislike of cats, as established in Fear Her. DT + kittens equals ADORABLE.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I have always loved the Face of Boe. I'm not convinced he won't survive. I think we'll see him again.

Oh, yes, the Doctor with kittens - I surrender, it's just too much, I succumb to the lure.

The Next DW Ep...

[raissad.livejournal.com]

Daleks In Manhattan is available:
http://www.tv-links.co.uk/show.do/1/26

Re: The Next DW Ep...

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Got it! I'm working on comments.