Star Wars: The Revenge of the Sith...

[fajrdrako]

Not being much of a Star Wars fan, I had mixed feelings about going to see this, but my curiosity overcomes all other considerations.

I have always liked three things about the Star Wars stories:

1. Han Solo
   
2. the concept of the Jedi
   
3. Qui-Gonn and Obi-Wan in Phantom Menace

In contrast, there are three things I have always hated about Star Wars: the dialogue, the aircraft chases, and all the other characters.

I found Anakin particularly annoying in the previous movie; not in this one. I was able to sit back and enjoy myself. I thought it was a kind of odd, though, to have a series of movies that comes right back to the place it all started. It didn't allow for surprises. I ought to have been shocked, shouldn't I, at what Anakin became? Instead I was expecting it all becasue we saw what he was in the original. Perhaps the oddity was wrapping three big-budget movies around the story of the villain.

Comments

[monsieureden.livejournal.com]

I think the dialog in the originals is just fine, with humor between Luke and Han, with substance of love being all three of them (Han, Luke and Leia), but Star Wars was never about the dialog, of course, so I thought in light of the premise it does a good job. The new ones? I cringe when they talk, which is going in the wrong direction. A movie might be all about action but to have no realistic emotion behind it turns it into a video game, and I always feel like I'm in a video game with the new Star Wars.

I think there was promise in the storyline: good goes wrong, love turns tragic, student turns against teacher, but some of it is classically cliche so it had to be strong and it wasn't. The third film was better than the first two, but I'm afraid to say at this point it seems pretty pointless, and I had very little emotional reaction, no less, as you say, because we knew how it would turn out. For that reason alone they HAD to work doubly hard at making the new trilogy work, and I don't think they had the right focus. (note, 'they' probably representing Lucas here)

We know that going backwards can work - look at Niccolo, hehe, but leaps and bounds of difference as far as creating a brand new, believable story goes. There are connections to Lymond, but it is a stand alone series. The new Star Wars never managed that for me. I didn't care about the romance and I didn't care about the characters.

And I really don't care about Padme, lol, which is bad cause I feel like I'm supposed to. I liked Leia quite a lot.

I DO like Obi Wan (i.e. Ewan), and he's possibly the only character in the new ones that I care about at all. I just saw this film today as well, if you couldn't tell. Will be commenting in my lj very soon. :)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

"Video game" is an apt description, but I thought it was more of an amusement park ride. I think the theme coudl have been a strong one, but it didn't succeed in finding the purpose and momentum it needed.

I cared about Qui-Gonn and Obi-Wan and Han Solo - but I didn't like Han's fate (because I didn't like Princess Leia at all) so that's a sort of moot point. I liked Padme in "Phantom Menace" but she became more ordinary and more passive as the story progressed through "Revenge of the Sith", in which all she does is die of grief like a doomed medieval maiden. Which is okay in itself, I like doomed medieval maidens, but it isn't okay when we aren't offered anything else to give her substance.

I look forward to your LJ comments.

[monsieureden.livejournal.com]

Video games these days ARE amusement park rides.

I liked Leia so it worked for me. But she wasn't my favorite character. Han was my favorite, but I most related to Luke. Was there anyone beyond those three? lol.

With Padme, there is no reason for her to become the passive, passionless person she becomes, giving up on life. Wasn't she a queen at one point, or posing as one? I don't remember episode one or two so well.

[monsieureden.livejournal.com]

"I look forward to your LJ comments."

I went on quite a bit, lol. More than I should have - I don't even really like Star Wars THAT MUCH. But as a writer, I have to review in detail. *shrug*

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Video games these days ARE amusement park rides.

True, but they tend to have more plot. Unless you count "Pirates of the Caribbean".

I never related to Luke. He was okay, but... I just had trouble relating. He was such a generic kid.

Yes, Padme had been a queen. One wonders what happened to her queenliness.

I did like Senator Organa, just because he seemed heroic and purposeful.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed your comments! And pretty much agree with them, except that you liked the original movie, while I prefer "Phantom Menace" for reasons described.

Despite all my complaints and comments, I've seen far worse movies than any of the Star Wars movies could ever be. Though they often bore me, they are never pretentious, and even their absurdities are stylish ones.

(On the other hand, I tend to run the other way when someone suggests watching one of them again.)

[monsieureden.livejournal.com]

I haven't played video games in a long time so I haven't gotten much beyond the graphics. :)

I liked Luke's youth. I understood it as a child, when I discovered Star Wars, and I do think a lot of this has to do with how old you were when Star Wars came out and how you first experienced it. I liked Han Solo but there was nothing relatable about him - with Luke I could at least perceive that the average kid could go great things.

[monsieureden.livejournal.com]

Why did you like PM? (I didn't notice your reasons. Because of Qui Won?).

Again, I think a lot of this is related to nostalgia. A lot of SW fanatics saw the new ones in hope of reliving the feeling they had (in childhood) upon seeing the originals. A certain closure.

I didn't see Star Wars until I was a preteen, and I enjoyed them as a young person searching for my own identity, but that was about it. No real fanaticism.

[monsieureden.livejournal.com]

On the other hand, I tend to run the other way when someone suggests watching one of them again

Hehe, *hides her dvd trilogy*.

Oh yeah, another sign that I like SW but am not a purist: I own the special editions. o__o lol.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I think you are absolutely correct that I would have an entirely different attitude to Star Wars (and the characters in it) if I had ever seen it as a child. I'm sure I would have loved it, and I would have particularly loved some of the things I like about it now - the light-sabre fights, the sense that individuals can make a difference if they are brave and don't give up, the sense that people need and deserve freedom. I like all that, but except for the light-sabre thing, it's a sort of intellectual rationalization, not a gut reaction on any level.

By the time the movie came out I was way too old and jaded to enjoy the optimistic heroics of Luke Skywalker, who just seemed like... well, like such a kid. It made the whole thing seem too simplistic to be interesting; so I was bored, and there's nothing I hate more than to be bored. (You may have noticed!)

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

And a sign I'm not a fan: I don't even know what the special editions are!

I do actually own a copy of the video of the original "Star Wars", which someone gave me a few weeks ago. (They were disposing of old tapes in my directions.) I'm not sure what to do with it. I think I kept it for Han Solo's sake. I might even watch it if I can fast-forward through all the scenes Han isn't in. Maybe. I don't own any of the other SW movies.

Anyway, I know you're too kind to force me to watch the whole set of movies again! Given the opportunity, we could find other, more mutual cinematic temptations.

[monsieureden.livejournal.com]

Yes! I wish I could read as much as you do, to cure boredom. I don't like boredom either but I tend to exercise it more in the realm of writing, for some reason, or art.

Light sabres (I'm spelling it your way now) are always fun.

You never seem jaded to me. ;) Nor old. Mature, knowledgeable and deep, yes.

[monsieureden.livejournal.com]

I almost responded to the wrong comment, so many comments, lol.

The special editions are the only dvd versions of the original trilogy currently available. Basically, they have been 'spiced up' by George Lucas (mostly with new special effects), and of course there are formal petitions all over the net from SW purists to have the ORIGINAL trilogy released on dvd (minus the edits) because I guessed he changed a few, minor things which I don't really notice but which are glaring to devotees.

The only thing I really noticed was the insert of Hayden Christenson's face on Darth Vader's face at the end of Return of the Jedi, which I admit was jolting, but about two seconds long so not a big deal.

[monsieureden.livejournal.com]

Anyway, I know you're too kind to force me to watch the whole set of movies again! Given the opportunity, we could find other, more mutual cinematic temptations.

Oh yes, I'm sure we'd find something. This is a good reason to never make the Dunnetts into films. Imagine the arguments!!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I liked "Phantom Menace" because I like the concept of the Jedi and I thought it gave us a closer view of the Jedi than any of the other movies. Anakin was incredibly annoying but I love both Liam Neeson and Ewan McGregor, and thought their relationship as Qui-Gonn and Obi-Wan was interesting and realistic (on the one hand) and slashy (on the other). I liked the way they dressed. I liked it that they were in most of the movie, and we didn't spend a lot of time with the bad guys. I thought Queen Amidala/Padme was visually and conceptually interesting, and I could relate to her in a way I hadn't been able to relate to the characters in the first trilogy. (I don't think you can quite call my liking for Han Solo to be relating to him, though I admired his ironic anarchic style. Mostly my reaction to him was simple character-lust.)

I also liked Darth Maul's colourfulness and that wonderful light sabre battle with him.

I'm trying to think what I went for when I was a preteen searching for my identity. Hamlet, I guess. I was mad over "The Man from U.N.C.L.E." (which embarrasses me a little now, but only a little) but I don't think my own sense of identity, or even my taste in general, had anything to do with it. I was mad over "My Fair Lady" - quite a different end of the spectrum - and the Fantastic Four and the X-Men. Perhaps my parents should have let me go to more movies.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Look at the discussions we already have about casting - which I always enjoy, even when I'm just enjoying being appalled by someone else's terrible notions of who might play Lymond.

I bet no two fans would agree on what lines or scenes to cut, either. If any!

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

so many comments, lol.

Yup, we're on a roll!

Right, I have heard about the fans' distress that the original movies aren't released on DVD. I assume my video-tape, being old, is closer to the original? But not having seen it, I don't know. For what it's worth, I didn't much like the updates and changes, because I thought they were unnecessary. But I'm not sure I was ever sure exactly what the changes were.

I guess, on principal, I don't think a movie should be messed with after the fact. It isn't like adding back cut footage (which is wonderful) - it's changing bits of the original. I wouldn't like Dorothy Dunnett to be able to go back and re-edit The Game of Kings, and supress all earlier editions, either. Even though it's good that some errors were corrected.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

Light sabres (I'm spelling it your way now) are always fun.

I can only agree. I'm always a sucker for anything resembling swordplay. I wish they featured it more in modern movies.

You never seem jaded to me. ;) Nor old. Mature, knowledgeable and deep, yes.

Aww, what a wonderful and discerning person you are. Many thanks for the vote of confidence! I think I was more jaded in my teens and twenties than I am now.

[monsieureden.livejournal.com]

The only thing I liked about PM was Ewan and Liam, and their relationship (I should have seen the slash aspect!), and the fight with Darth Maul (who I also thought was cool, at least in looks). So I concur! Unfortunately everything else about the movie scares me away, especially Anakin as a child. I'm not generally crazy on children, and annoying, know-it-all children even less.

For me, Han is like Lymond: amusing from a distance but a pain in the ass in person. I can't stand guys with egos, possibly because I have such an ego myself. *embarrassing sigh*

I liked Hamlet too, though I don't think I found that until I was maybe fourteen. I just knew so many people (particularly girls) who read complicated masterpieces in elementary school and presented it as a badge of their tortured intellect, which I saw as a front and a little sad that they couldn't enjoy something simple. But then, maybe I was mis-interpreting them. Having been a bit jaded by the age of ten, I couldn't understand these kids who had pretty functional lives acting like they were thirty and cynical. All I wanted was to escape.

Obviously you prove that it is not always a front.

[monsieureden.livejournal.com]

Yes, guns never have the same effect that swords do. The thing I like about Eden's time is that they had both by then, though it must be admitted that shooting a gun in the 17th century was nothing like shooting a gun now.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I agree that as childen in movies go, Anakin was the worst ever. Obnoxious brat! I grit my teeth and try to ignore his scenes.

(I should have seen the slash aspect!)

Even without that, I liked their heroice courage, they style, and their teamwork. With the slash - well, they did make great slash heroes.

I think Han Solo and Lymond are pretty much perfect. I guess I do like guys with egos!

I can't claim I loved Hamlet for any particularly intellectual reasons. I loved his dark tortured sexy angst and his swordplay and the words he used to describe it all and the gorgeous black clothes he usually wore. I always pictured him in Elizabethan clothes - excepting the Regency version I saw when I was about 12, the Hallmark TV production with Richard Chamberlain. I loved Elizabethan costume because I'd fallen in love with Sir Francis Drake when I was 9.

I guess, now I think about it, that a lot of my self-exploration in adolescence was spent reading about Shelley and his circle - and a lot of that was a passion for ideas, the antidote to conventionality - feminism, pantheism, socialism, free love and so on. There was very little that pointed me to role models of the kind of woman I wanted to be. There still isn't. (Quite possibly Kate Somerville is the closest I have found.)

Anyway, though I had too much pride to go out of my way to hide my personal passions like Hamlet and Drake and Shelley, I didn't talk about them with friends and acquaintances much because I realized they were sort of ... unusual personal tastes. I was very aware that there seemed to be no mould for me to fit into, least of all in the school system.

[monsieureden.livejournal.com]

Aww, what a wonderful and discerning person you are. Many thanks for the vote of confidence! I think I was more jaded in my teens and twenties than I am now.

Oh you're fabulous and you know it. :) I always enjoy your insightful reviews on books and films, whatever the pov, and I definitely liked your opinions on Dunnett, when I read the Marzipan list (how is that going? It's been so long since I corresponded).

I don't think I'm jaded, even in my twenties. I have always been a dreamer and an optimist, and since my mother's nervous breakdown I've felt very lucky to still be alive, so that's swayed my outlook on life at a young age. I do feel jaded when I've had a long day of work dealing with difficult, negative people, probably because I hate to realize that humanity isn't as nice as I'd like it to be.

I don't want to live in a dream world, but I do want a balance, and I am easily disappointed.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I like guns too, but they don't quite have the appeal for me that swords and even knives do. Pistols are particularly fun.

In the big yard sale yesterday I saw someone was selling an old doctored rifle and I almost impulsively asked the price. I don't need a rifle!

Some day, I'll buy a real sword.

On Wednesday I was looking at the reproduction of Eowyn's sword they were selling at my local comic book shop. It was gorgeous.

[monsieureden.livejournal.com]

I guess you should've attended my school, lol, or at least been my friend, were our ages more similar. I knew plenty of them! :) Mostly musicians. Some of them were authentic and just liked the material, but others I questioned.

Well, Eden has a big ego too (a messiah complex even) so apparently I like them, but only when I don't have to live with them day in and out, LOL. (ok, technically I DO live with Eden, but you know where I'm going with this...) I think I could live with Niccolo...

You must have been fascinating to know as a teenager! See, I don't really care for Kate Somerville. Maybe I'm too influenced by feminism?

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

The Marzipan list is going fine. There've been some good conversations lately - a nice meaty discussion of Kingdom of Heaven, for example.

I'm probably temperamentally more of an optimist than a cynic - but that isn't always reflected in my reading tastes. Put another way.... I find it insufficient to find reason for optimism by oversimplifying a situation, I'd rather make it complex, dark and dangerous and then reveal my essential optimism by having the positive element shine through. Therefore I can get more satisfaction in, say, Qui-Gonn's brave death than in Luke's skillful shot. Does that make sense?

I don't think I expect humanity to be nice but I do so prefer it when peopel can be reasonable - often too much to ask! And really, it isn't people I'm jaded with, it's just that sometimes it's hard to imagine how things can get better in a world of multiple problems with no solutions. I like books (and movies) that show us ways of improving things despite the depth and breadth of the problems.